Are we as a club financially equipped to deal with this crisis?

Rickymck said:
Company was liquidated because HMRC demanded 100 million plus and refused to settle on the actual money we owed! Anyone who put money into the club to try and save it would have lost it. This wasn't a scum or Hearts scenario where a few million kept the doors open. In this scenario a lot of our fans won't be able to afford to eat never mind plough money into the club! Our ability to ride this through will be based on the ability to get additional funding that can be paid back through future gate receipts or sales of players. Before this happened we would have had a plan to get us through March April and May that included revenue from 5 home games and revenue from the away games. Whatever that was is required so probably a couple of million missing? Hopefully the last 16 tie softened that.
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The alleged EBT debt was not included in the figures which put the company into administration.

Only the accepted debt to HMRC and the money not paid by Craig Whyte was included.
 
DK was quoted saying we needed 10 million to get us through the season. That was before we went through the europa league group. So that number might be lower now. But in taking away match day revenue it could still be 10 million so I wouldnt imagine we will be immune from this.
 
Papasmurf said:
I think we will be in a lot worse a place than many imagine.

as for investment. I’d imagine most mega rich folk have their money tied up in stock. They won’t want to sell shares when the markets are so low.

expect the unexpected imo
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I should think rangers and Celtic next year will have less expensive players and be playing in front of less fans every week . Only the well off will buy a season book and most will buy tickets on a weekly game to game basis .
 
Johnny Boyd 2 said:
I should think rangers and Celtic next year will have less expensive players and be playing in front of less fans every week . Only the well off will buy a season book and most will buy tickets on a weekly game to game basis .
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Season books have paymeant options etc and ppl will be afraid of loosing the seat if they dont pay so I dont see that being an issue. In hindsight the season book money isn't a big outlay. We are not talking thousands . If they cant pay it all upfront there is options to spread it over 4 months.
 
Greebo said:
That will only happen if someone is willing to provide substantial loans in the not too distant future.

There is no line of credit and the business is working on a cash basis.

For Rangers this is not so much about turnover (which is still vital) as cash flow. When the cash in the bank runs out bills will not be getting paid. There will be very little cash going in just now and going forward if there are no season ticket sales.
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Totally agree with this, unfortunately many of our support don't seem to realise this.
 
Tommy1912 said:
Season books have paymeant options etc and ppl will be afraid of loosing the seat if they dont pay so I dont see that being an issue. In hindsight the season book money isn't a big outlay. We are not talking thousands . If they cant pay it all upfront there is options to spread it over 4 months.
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I think people’s priorities won’t be football and folk will realise they can get a ticket easily when they can afford it . I also think us and celtics teams will be decimated as soon as some kind of transfer window opens up . Both I think have operating costs of well over £1 million a week and that is unsustainable with next to no income for several months .
 
If share holders bail out on rangers and try and recoup what money they can from selling their shares, its a fine opportunity for Club 1872 to step in and buy whatever spare shares there is.
 
Their main shareholder Dermot will be getting absolutely shafted just now due to his other businesses being hammered. No one is escaping this shit show and no one knows where it will all end up, including us.
 
Johnny Boyd 2 said:
I think people’s priorities won’t be football and folk will realise they can get a ticket easily when they can afford it . I also think us and celtics teams will be decimated as soon as some kind of transfer window opens up . Both I think have operating costs of well over £1 million a week and that is unsustainable with next to no income for several months .
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Maybe being an optimist but I think itl have the other effect. If the new season is starting up and ppl know the club are depending on the money then they renew. If they dont there will be thousands who will who's waiting on 2 seats together etc. That all depends on the new season actually getting started though. If there's doubt its gona be started then that's where I think the problems will come.
 
Papasmurf said:
I think we will be in a lot worse a place than many imagine.

as for investment. I’d imagine most mega rich folk have their money tied up in stock. They won’t want to sell shares when the markets are so low.

expect the unexpected imo
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Unfortunately, I think you might be right.
 
Centralbear said:
Unfortunately, I think you might be right.
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I know a guy who has been ploughing almost every spare penny he had in shares. Within a week, his life savings had all but disappeared.

granted it’s a paper loss but know one knows that the future holds.

now is the time to buy not sell. As risky as it is.
 
Simply, No! and i dont think any of them are, and this is bigger than football, i dont think any institution or business is financially equipped for what's coming.
 
We won’t know what a bailout might mean for another year.
It seems to be getting worse by the hour.
 
Greebo said:
The alleged EBT debt was not included in the figures which put the company into administration.

Only the accepted debt to HMRC and the money not paid by Craig Whyte was included.
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Wasn't the CVA rejected due to HMRC wanting upwards of £100m? Anyone who took us out of administration was looking at fighting that demand were they not. Hence no one touching it until the company were liquidated, no?
 
Papasmurf said:
I know a guy who has been ploughing almost every spare penny he had in shares. Within a week, his life savings had all but disappeared.

granted it’s a paper loss but know one knows that the future holds.

now is the time to buy not sell. As risky as it is.
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History has shown that if you are in a position to sit tight, sooner or later markets recover, however what all football clubs require at present is cash flow and certainty, neither of which is abundant just now.
 
Centralbear said:
History has shown that if you are in a position to sit tight, sooner or later markets recover, however what all football clubs require at present is cash flow and certainty, neither of which is abundant just now.
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You are right. Difficult to swallow in the short term though.

I’m seriously concerned about our financial health moving forward. unless the investment goes ahead i fear horrible consequences.

clearly not just us.

but this time hundreds of thousands, potential 7 figures of the country will be unemployed. Football may be a luxury many can’t afford.
OTT? Maybe, but it’s where my head is at.
 
Slybacon said:
How are we equipped to deal with this crisis? Every club and in fact every business is going to be hit horrendously hard. Every one of our shareholders has money tied up in stock markets that are plummeting and will only continue to fall. They, like Murray could soon be put in a position to prioritise business / assets over the football club. Even the new investor that was live 2 weeks ago will probably have other priorities.
Hell, we all have new priorities. Every person alive is faced with a new life going forward. This is going to affect us all for a very long time.
We have been chasing the league (as we should have been because no-one could legislate for this) but for being a club happy to overspend to chase it have we again need just a little bit reckless with cash?
So how are we financially?
I know we have no current debt but we did need a cash injection a few weeks ago to last is to the end of the season.
Do we still need this?
If so are we likely to receive it?
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nobody knows
 
Papasmurf said:
You are right. Difficult to swallow in the short term though.

I’m seriously concerned about our financial health moving forward. unless the investment goes ahead i fear horrible consequences.

clearly not just us.

but this time hundreds of thousands, potential 7 figures of the country will be unemployed. Football may be a luxury many can’t afford.
OTT? Maybe, but it’s where my head is at.
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Aye its OTT ffs. Once the football starts back people will be desperate to go after months of nothing.

Also the guys that's ploughed money in then converted it into shares aren't going to let is go bust and lose the lot. Keep the head.
 
chucknorris said:
Aye its OTT ffs. Once the football starts back people will be desperate to go after months of nothing.

Also the guys that's ploughed money in then converted it into shares aren't going to let is go bust and lose the lot. Keep the head.
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We will see.

like I say, money men may not have as much money. And season ticket holders will be no where near the same level. No where near.

Don’t underestimate the damage this will have on our economy
 
Rickymck said:
Wasn't the CVA rejected due to HMRC wanting upwards of £100m? Anyone who took us out of administration was looking at fighting that demand were they not. Hence no one touching it until the company were liquidated, no?
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No.

HMRC had over 25% of the debt without including the alleged EBT debt.

That was enough to reject any CVA.
 
Obviously we aren't going to be immune from this but everything is relative. The whole footballing community the world over will be the same and footballing costs will reflect what people are able to pay. The difference now from 2012 is that we have saleable assets that will return money to the club. If it means we have to sell a couple of players and cut our cloth to get by then so be it.
 
Season ticket sales will probably be a sticky situation for the club right now.

They were planned for sometime in April I believe, but the club is on a double edged sword with these just now. On the one hand, we desperately need the cash in from them. On the other hand, will they feel they are putting undue extra pressure on the fans by sending them out just now in light of what is happening with a vast amount of peoples finances?

I am in a very lucky position of knowing my job is safe, and then some as I work for the NHS, but this virus is going to cripple many financially, and season ticket renewals may have to be put to the bottom of the priority pile for many.

It's a brutal situation we find ourselves in all over the planet, and we as a club are most definitely going to feel the strain of it big time in the not too distant future if football is off for as long as many believe it may be.
 
M
jefftracy said:
Obviously we aren't going to be immune from this but everything is relative. The whole footballing community the world over will be the same and footballing costs will reflect what people are able to pay. The difference now from 2012 is that we have saleable assets that will return money to the club. If it means we have to sell a couple of players and cut our cloth to get by then so be it.
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We might have saleable assets but who is going to buy when no one knows when next season is going to begin.

Whether anyone believes it or not, unless we're in a position to have season ticket monies come in from end of April, and that looks unlikely in the extreme, I can't help but believe we'll have a cash crunch beyond this time.
 
Centralbear said:
M

We might have saleable assets but who is going to buy when no one knows when next season is going to begin.

Whether anyone believes it or not, unless we're in a position to have season ticket monies come in from end of April, and that looks unlikely in the extreme, I can't help but believe we'll have a cash crunch beyond this time.
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I agree with what you say but football will start again and the fact we have players we can sell is surely a form of security. The club's survival is paramount and we should whatever is necessary.
 
BBC had a professor saying 12-18 months before a vaccine is developed and 2+ years before herd immunity levels are reached.

Unless all games are televised and played behind closed doors I can see next season being written off or extremely truncated as the level of infections will still be very high this autumn and winter.

If this were to happen it would cause financial difficulties to even the best financed teams.
 
cgc said:
BBC had a professor saying 12-18 months before a vaccine is developed and 2+ years before herd immunity levels are reached.

Unless all games are televised and played behind closed doors I can see next season being written off or extremely truncated as the level of infections will still be very high this autumn and winter.

If this were to happen it would cause financial difficulties to even the best financed teams.
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The Imperial College (London) stuff is fućking scary.
 
jefftracy said:
I agree with what you say but football will start again and the fact we have players we can sell is surely a form of security. The club's survival is paramount and we should whatever is necessary.
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We have players as assets but the problem is what value can be achieved in such uncertain times.

Also we have little or no credit/lending facilities, so even if we have sellable assets, who is going to advance the money in the short term?

IMO without season ticket monies we would likely require further directors loans.

I'll ask the question, if you were the director(s) paying out of your own pocket would you be happy with this money being used to fully pay already rich footballers when not kicking a ball for who knows how many months.
 
It would be nice to see footballers - not just from our club - to take a voluntary paycut. I get they have massive overheads too, however for the sake of all clubs sake surely they feel guilty at the amount of money they are getting paid right now? If you consider many citizens might have to take a 20% wage cut, any little work help.
 
Centralbear said:
We have players as assets but the problem is what value can be achieved in such uncertain times.

Also we have little or no credit/lending facilities, so even if we have sellable assets, who is going to advance the money in the short term?

IMO without season ticket monies we would likely require further directors loans.

I'll ask the question, if you were the director(s) paying out of your own pocket would you be happy with this money being used to fully pay already rich footballers when not kicking a ball for who knows how many months.
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Good question. If I were them I would have serious decision to make. Theres one thing running the club, however yeh as you say, paying money in for it instantly to hit the bank account of well off footballer players would be hard to stomach.
 
If the 12-18 months stuff is true every club in the land could be in trouble next season. No room for complacency here as we are running at a loss reliant on benefactors.
 
I lost faith in "Fans with Money" and hate reliance on it. If every fan gave 1% of income for one year we would be stable forever. As it is I don't want multi-million pound investments and in fact I don't trust "investors" any more. It's easy maths. If we have 500,000 fans worldwide giving £100 each as a one-off it's £50million that wipes out any problems we have. If we only have 100,000 real fans it would be £500 etc. I will be forever cynical about people with money "investing" in Rangers. Apart from the RST and the RFF (ordinary fans) there never has been a block investment without demanding a return.
 
grahamdavid said:
I think we will manage the situation but will have to cut back.
The club overheads need to be paid. In my view, all players will be allowed to leave as their contracts come to an end. The loan players go back to their club and all non vital staff contracts terminated.
The council may give us a rates holiday but certain staff and insurances will have to be paid.
I think this will still amount to a few millons.
If season ticket money comes in, which will be reduced, we should survive until play can resume.
I have no doubt that plans are in place, being put in place, for a complete meltdown.
The only sticking point, in my opinion, is players being paid squillions for sitting at home. I’m sure they will be asked to defer money owed to them at some point.
It may already be happening.
Not happy days.
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I don't see why they should be, they like the rest of us have bills to pay.
 
I think the answer to the question posed by the OP is entirely dependent on how long the crisis impacts playing games of football.
If the worst is over in 3 months we will manage ok
Up to 6 months and we will need to take some difficult decisions regarding the playing staff to get through
6-9 months and some even more drastic actions will be required
9-12 months and we will probably be goosed along with every other club in Scotland.
 
boracay ranger said:
I think the answer to the question posed by the OP is entirely dependent on how long the crisis impacts playing games of football.
If the worst is over in 3 months we will manage ok
Up to 6 months and we will need to take some difficult decisions regarding the playing staff to get through
6-9 months and some even more drastic actions will be required
9-12 months and we will probably be goosed along with every other club in Scotland.
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Nail on the head.

I think everyone is just praying for a best case scenario with football returning in the summer but nobody knows.
 
boracay ranger said:
I think the answer to the question posed by the OP is entirely dependent on how long the crisis impacts playing games of football.
If the worst is over in 3 months we will manage ok
Up to 6 months and we will need to take some difficult decisions regarding the playing staff to get through
6-9 months and some even more drastic actions will be required
9-12 months and we will probably be goosed along with every other club in Scotland.
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That's pretty much my take on it if this last 6 months or more I think every single club including us and them will be up shit street
 
If there is no football for 12 months I doubt we will have enough players left to put out a team - all clubs will do a Hearts eventually.
 
Talk of even a club like Barcelona asking players to take a cut in wages now. Every club will be affected by this to a certain degree.

If we’ve no football at all next season or the league can’t start till winter time then I think every club in Scotland is looking at redundancies in playing and non playing staff.

If football across Europe gets decimated I can see the formation of a European league and cross border competitions very soon after to attract TV and sponsorship back ASAP.
 
meldo53 said:
I think we will be ok with the European money but the Tim’s will struggle
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Have you factored in the predicted shortfall for the season and the fact that the club operates on a cash basis. Both of which are mentioned in the accounts.

How much cash do you think the club has just now to keep paying the operating costs.
 
Greebo said:
Have you factored in the predicted shortfall for the season and the fact that the club operates on a cash basis. Both of which are mentioned in the accounts.

How much cash do you think the club has just now to keep paying the operating costs.
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I would have though we are ok to May but if we are not then I am sure we will plug together
 
meldo53 said:
I would have though we are ok to May but if we are not then I am sure we will plug together
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I think the only ways that would be possible is if either season tickets are sold and there is a large influx of cash just now, loans are supplied until that money comes in, or a share issue could be rushed through.
 
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