Club 1872 statement

Gazb1962 said:
I can’t see Dave King doing any deal that wouldn’t be in the best interests of the club.
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A lot of prominent voices don't trust C1872 yet King does and says he has been impressed with his dealings. Everyone seemed to revel in a bit of Castore and Bisgrove publicity getting interviews, let's see them put themselves forward for adult discussions with King and C1872 and see if we can't all get behind this opportunity
 
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When you are looking at a transaction of this size then you need professionals involved.

First we need a close look at C1872 to make sure it is structured right in order to take on a far more important role.

Second we need to understand how C1872 will hold its shares In RFC.

Third, we need to look at how fan-investors hold their shares. Logically, C1872 will hold the RFC shares and members will hold shares in C1872. There will need to be a discussion as to how 'tradeable' those shares are. For example, what happens when a shareholder passes on? Does C1872 have a right of pre-emption? Where do they find cash to buy back those shares.

Fourth, there needs to be a close look at governance within C1872. That isn't a criticism but we need to make sure it's squeaky clean.

Fifth, there needs to be some input as to how C1872 interacts with RFC. Will they have a director? Will they have more than one director? How will those directors be chosen? Will they have a fixed term, etc.?

This is all off the top of my head. I've been retired for a while so I'm a little rusty in these matters.
 
EndOfDays said:
They do but wont need to be 650 as they have other income and cash in bank.
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The other income and cash in the bank will be used for other things.

This is new money for the share purchase.

It will be complicated as the these 20000 new members will they have a different level to existing members?

Will C1872 be able to put funds in like other shareholders have done so far?
 
For me the biggest thing that comes out of this is that club 1872 have a chance to have an ownership that will ensure the fans can block any future charlatans who feel like they can do what the spivs did and rape the club from the inside out.

I’d prefer Dave King to continue having a say in this and I hope Club 1872 will continue to use King’s expertise to ensure these shares are used appropriately
 
Now begins the battle for control of Club 1872.

I don’t see this ending well and I say that as a lifetime member of C1872. I am more comfortable with the idea of C1872 buying new shares therefore pumping new money into the club.

I suppose the devil will be in the detail eh?
 
Would like to say after we win 55 this season then Dave King should be the man to unfurl the flag our first home game.
 
What a wonderful opportunity
I've got a number of questions and some concerns, but I await the details.

Reading the first page of comments, people need to understand that Dave King or his heirs can sell their shareholding to anyone, Dave is ensuring the support get his shares.
Never again indeed
 
sherbrook_loyal said:
I’d be far, far more comfortable if the likes of Douglas Park and the other businessmen who currently have shareholdings were buying King’s shares.

I fear this will be an absolute disaster.

I have very little confidence in Club 1872 being able to effectively run our club – and I say that as a long-term contributor.
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Will they actually run the club though? Does it not just get them a seat on the board?
 
2 Questions.
Is Dave King on good terms with our Board?

Are our shares worth 20p given all the dilution from recent share issues?
 
Another concern I have is what about years when we are behind Celtic . And we need to run at a loss to catch up or years we miss out on Europe . Who’s picking up that tab. This works if the club breaks even every year . If we don’t or choose not to to bridge a gap. I can’t see club 1872 and the fans having the money to do that like king and co have done
 
sherbrook_loyal said:
I’d be far, far more comfortable if the likes of Douglas Park and the other businessmen who currently have shareholdings were buying King’s shares.

I fear this will be an absolute disaster.

I have very little confidence in Club 1872 being able to effectively run our club – and I say that as a long-term contributor.
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Club 1872 wouldn't be running the club. The executive board runs the club.
By buying Dave King's shares Club 1872 will have around 25% of shares. A substantial block, and very meaningful in terms of influence.
With a Club 1872 seat on the board it would mean carrying out the duties of a director. There would probably need to be special conditions attached to a supporter group directorship. It would require the other directors to take Club 1872 very seriously given their level of shareholding. Whoever becomes that director needs to know what they are doing. Someone like Paul Murray would the type of person needed.
The Rangers support could do extremely well by grabbing this opportunity.
 
Not for me, I invested back at the start when I thought it was a good idea but over the years my opinion has changed. Club 1872 have had significant investment from fans and I'm not sure they offer enough to warrant more or offer a plan for the future.

If they get the 13m shares what next? How do they plan on actually investing in the club? Or will the next part of the plan just be to get some more shares?!
 
I suppose DK is giving fans the opportunity to obtain his shares and giving 3 years to do so. I think Club 1872 will do well to get half the money required but we shall see. Presumably the balance of shares will then after three years be sold by DK to an interested party. I trust DK to sell only to a good Rangers fan whatever happens.
 
Let’s be honest here the theory of this excellent and King has been an entirely positive input into our club. Without him we might not have made it.

However Club 1872 is a vehicle with a very patchy record. Some of the individuals have not sought influence for the right reasons.

For me it would need some serious change before I would put money into it. Fan ownership is a good idea but comes with a lot of risks.
 
Hillheadbear said:
When you are looking at a transaction of this size then you need professionals involved.

First we need a close look at C1872 to make sure it is structured right in order to take on a far more important role.

Second we need to understand how C1872 will hold its shares In RFC.

Third, we need to look at how fan-investors hold their shares. Logically, C1872 will hold the RFC shares and members will hold shares in C1872. There will need to be a discussion as to how 'tradeable' those shares are. For example, what happens when a shareholder passes on? Does C1872 have a right of pre-emption? Where do they find cash to buy back those shares.

Fourth, there needs to be a close look at governance within C1872. That isn't a criticism but we need to make sure it's squeaky clean.

Fifth, there needs to be some input as to how C1872 interacts with RFC. Will they have a director? Will they have more than one director? How will those directors be chosen? Will they have a fixed term, etc.?

This is all off the top of my head. I've been retired for a while so I'm a little rusty in these matters.
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No you are 100% correct.

There are more questions than answers after that statement today.
 
If they don’t get the uptake desired, I presume King would offer the shares to those shareholders already heavily involved with the club who may have the wherewithal to pull it off.
 
Out of interest, is there any large successful club in the world that has this structure that we could look to for inspiration? If it is a no, then should we actually temper our ambition to own too much of the club?
 
sammy1872 said:
Another concern I have is what about years when we are behind Celtic . And we need to run at a loss to catch up or years we miss out on Europe . Who’s picking up that tab. This works if the club breaks even every year . If we don’t or choose not to to bridge a gap. I can’t see club 1872 and the fans having the money to do that like king and co have done
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We are ahead of Celtic right now, and can surely "book" from an accounting perspective the champions league money that be flowing in
 
Club 1872 provides a huge opportunity for fans. If you're not a member then sign up. As the saying goes, better to be inside the tent pissing out.

If you don't like Club 1872, get like minded supporters to join you. Debate is healthy and there will be a number of differing opinions. However the organisation will need a strong spine. We don't want to get into the position where we were a few years ago now where Chris Graham has to resign a board position due to pressure from our haters. Our representatives need to be backed and backed strongly by the fan base behind them. There are great candidates amongst our support who could help move the organisation forward but everyone needs to embrace this as a positive move, otherwise it never gets off the ground.
 
ChildOfGod said:
Surely they could Not use existing cash for Legacy shareholders though ?

it would have to be as people have said 20k x 650 per person . I’m assuming it is limited to one share per person and eg I couldn’t buy 100 of them ?
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Club1872 own the shares, the members themselves don't.
 
SasaPapacLoyal54 said:
Can't knock the idea but I have my doubts that 20 thousands bears can afford to put in 650 quid in these times.
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Some will put in less, some will put in more depending on their means. I will want to have a good look at how all this is structured before taking the plunge. In principle I'm in favour but the devil is always in the detail.
 
If club1872 can buy these shares and have sourness/Paul Murray front it then it might be a good thing.
Club 1872 set out to get enough shares to stop any dodgy buy out again. This will achieve this so what happens then?
For me, club 1872 would need to set up a way of giving 50% of donations straight to the club for transfer fees etc and then the other 50% for stadium/infrastructure updates. That way we fill the gap that may happen if we don’t make Europe for a season etc while also keeping fans engaged and donating. Gets past FFP too as it’s kinda how the German/membership clubs are set up.
 
EndOfDays said:
You just expect Park and Co to stump up another £13M to buy them, they are not a bottomless pit of money mate?
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It's a fair point EoD - it is likely beyond the current shareholders to part with £13m.

I would say however that I think it is highly unlikely there will be £13m of investment in C1872 to allow them to acquire these shares with (unless am missing something) none of this cash reaching Rangers for actual investment in the club.

Not for a second am I saying Dave isn't deserving of his cash back - he is 100% - I just feel it is unlikely C1872 will raise the funds to purchase his shares.

So where does this leave us mate?

ICM said:
Hesitancy or reluctance is fine and understandable but the constant dismissal and opposition points towards the 'need' of a figure head at the top.

Why not even a split between C1872 and existing supporter investors?

C1872 still has a lot of growing up and evolving to do but it can be done and done right if enough supporters want it to work.
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A split investment would work for me. If acquiring all Dave's shares would give C1872 the power to veto every boardroom decision then I would be nervous about that.

I agree C1872 has a lot of work to do to get to a place where the majority of fans would feel comfortable with them having such a major influence in the club.
 
Personally I see this as a massive opportunity to move the club into a position of "Never Again" that Dave King says. We don't know what the future holds with directors and key shareholders, so to have such a large stake under the control of a fans group helps provide that safety net

However, as @Hillheadbear stated above, there has to be change within the structure of C1872 and how it is perceived. Just now, it appears amateurish as an organisation but this should be a line in the sand moment where they move forward and take the Rangera support with them.

If we have learned anything from the last decade it is that we should be scrutinizing anything such as this with a fine tooth comb no matter how appealing it may seem.
 
ahalfallover said:
My opinion of c1872 is not a positive one

Put it this way , the subject of orange songs for instance didn't prove popular at one of previous meetings with their leadership.
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I wouldn’t envisage it being a top priority whatsoever given the clubs move away from that to the everyone anyone campaign

And majority of fans would also agree with the stance. Orange songs in this day and age have nothing to do with Rangers. It’s not a stick to beat club1872 with due to them being opposed to it.
 
LLLG said:
Aye fair enough mate that’s one way of looking at it! I look at it from the view that if my old man owned Rangers he would be in no doubt that it would safe
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Yeah and same would go with my kids however Kings family grew up in SA, they will probable like us but not with the same affection as their Dad.
 
I pay money to C1872, and have done since day dot, and if they want more folk to invest and take this seriously then I think there does have to be an improvement in regards to transparency.

It may have been posted already so, apologies for asking, but can someone link me up to published accounts from C1872 where we are able to see how much money is in the accounts?
 
LondonBear21 said:
We are ahead of Celtic right now, and can surely "book" from an accounting perspective the champions league money that be flowing in
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That’s never a guarantee but . Sure under gerrard we are confident now but even pre 2012 Kaunas are an example that we should never bank of UCL money in the accounts. Especially with elite clubs talking about a closed shop premier league
 
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