Warburton's transfer legacy in years to come

J

Juanito2

Well-Known Member
I wasn't a fan of Warburton when he left.I think he is naive and his overall approach flawed as manager.We all knew what was coming when he joined Forest in terms of pass pass pass to no effect,poor from set pieces,dominating the game without scoring and failure to learn from mistakes

When he left.I was also of the view.His transfer policy had been pretty disastrous and we'd been sold a pup that Frank Mcparland was some kind of guru(Allen is streets ahead of him)

But here's the twist.. I have come to the view in the past few weeks.Unlike Pedro who looks worse and worse in hindsight.Warburton might go from looking like he'd leave no legacy at all in the transfer market at all to leaving something that might be up for debate in the pub in 10 years time and improve in hindsight.Some of his signings are starting to bloom.Warburton might of been better sticking with youth development.

Wes
Tav
Windass ..

Warburton signings.the three of them collectively are gonna net us a very tidy sum from nothing..10 million pounds of talent easy. Murty will achieve far in the transfer market but it's not nothing as a legacy when they are part of 55 and bring in healthy transfer fee's.

Bates will be heart of our defence for years to come aswell.As with John Greig signing Ally.You don't need to be a top manager to leave a legacy.
Rossiter has big potential

There was five Warburton signings in the team last night and i don't think it's a stretch to say in 18 months time if we win 55. Wes/tav/Windass/bates/Holt/Rossiter will play parts.

Warburton's legacy in the transfer market is still correctly very tainted but it could look slightly different in years to come.
 
Ok it wasn’t much but could add Waghorn to that list probably made close to a million profit on him.

However he got just as many wrong as he did right.

With a further one still got a question mark (Rossiter)
 
The truth is, Warburton had some great attributes as a manager.
We sang his praises in that first season, and it was only right because he was doing a great job.

Sadly he also has some glaring flaws, and as someone who so often talked about learning curves and self-improvement regarding the players, he seemed to lack the self-awareness to change his own career for the better and to learn from his mistakes.

I still wish him well.
 
Juanito2 said:
I wasn't a fan of Warburton when he left.I think he is naive and his overall approach flawed as manager.We all knew what was coming when he joined Forest in terms of pass pass pass to no effect,poor from set pieces,dominating the game without scoring and failure to learn from mistakes

When he left.I was also of the view.His transfer policy had been pretty disastrous and we'd been sold a pup that Frank Mcparland was some kind of guru(Allen is streets ahead of him)

But here's the twist.. I have come to the view in the past few weeks.Unlike Pedro who looks worse and worse in hindsight.Warburton might go from looking like he'd leave no legacy at all in the transfer market at all to leaving something that might be up for debate in the pub in 10 years time and improve in hindsight.Some of his signings are starting to bloom.Warburton might of been better sticking with youth development.

Wes
Tav
Windass ..

Warburton signings.the three of them collectively are gonna net us a very tidy sum from nothing..10 million pounds of talent easy. Murty will achieve far in the transfer market but it's not nothing as a legacy when they are part of 55 and bring in healthy transfer fee's.

Bates will be heart of our defence for years to come aswell.As with John Greig signing Ally.You don't need to be a top manager to leave a legacy.
Rossiter has big potential

There was five Warburton signings in the team last night and i don't think it's a stretch to say in 18 months time if we win 55. Wes/tav/Windass/bates/Holt/Rossiter will play parts.

Warburton's legacy in the transfer market is still correctly very tainted but it could look slightly different in years to come.
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Really good post. Well said sir.
 
Yer da said:
Hodson, Kranjcar, MOH, Dodoo, Barton, Kiernan, Senderos, that polish keeper, Forrester.

You're bound to hit the target a few times with a shotgun approach.
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Overall, we will make a profit on his signings. Something we have rarely done in my life time so he needs to be applauded for that at least.
 
I’d pretty much agree with the OP, unlike Pedro who was a complete disaster, Warburton did do a lot of good mixed in with some glaring flaws.
 
Some excellent value for money signings; Tav, Wes, Holt, Windass and even Waghorn. His first window was excellent but the rest were shocking.

Signing M'OH and Billy King when they were both cup tied was a poor decision aswell.
 
He had great experience in youth football and clearly knew where some gems were hidden. However there was a limited supply of such players within our price range and he very quickly exhausted them. After that, his signing policy got worse and worse.

It all seemed related to what appears to be his fundamental misunderstanding of the game. He thinks that every team can be Barca. And doesn't realise that even Barca have some big powerful defenders and are always looking for a good true number 9. They only got away without one for a while because their false 9 was arguably the greatest of all time.

Wes, Tav and Windass look very good buys. Waghorn made a profit but was not SPL level. Rossiter may have been recruited through his contacts but was not exactly a hidden gem. And time will tell whether or not he ever actually reaches his potential. Bates looks a fairly typical rangers buy - a guy looking good at a lesser club.

The way Warburton played these guys, they'd have been worth very little. Caixina got better performances out of most by playing a style that actually suited Scottish football and the squad more. And Murty has managed to use similar formations but actually get the team playing properly. Tav's transfer worth in particular right now is more due to Murty playing him right than Warburton. While Windass and Bates never got a proper chance under Warburton and were brought through by Caixina and Murty.

I think the retrospectoscope often inflates value. £10mill for these players may be eclipsed by the fee we get for Morelos alone. Does that make Caixina a genius? Candeias would also get a strong transfer fee, as would Jack and John. And many of us would see a player in Cardoso.

Nothing is perfect or horrendous. Warburton made some good buys. But his tactics ignoring defence completely and focussing on build up play without anyone to finish the moves was frustrating as hell and did not showcase even his good buys optimally.

I would think that, when 55 comes around, we'll still have 2 or 3 players from both Warburton and Caixina. But the tactics will be closer to Caixina's than to Warburton's.
 
The first window for Warburton was good. Let's not re-write history.

His subsequent windows were absolutely dismal, and he never learned tactically. This do plan A better stuff was soul destroying.

However, as another said, even John Grieg's tenure left us Super Ally the player.

Lastly, Warburton was still better than Caixinha, but that's not saying much.
 
Barrymoped said:
I’d pretty much agree with the OP, unlike Pedro who was a complete disaster, Warburton did do a lot of good mixed in with some glaring flaws.
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Eh? Warburton makes 4 successful signings out of 20 (?), Pedro made 2 that were questionable, another 2 if you really want to insist Alves and Cardoso have been a disaster (they haven't so you would be wrong)
 
Arminius said:
The first window for Warburton was good. Let's not re-write history.

His subsequent windows were absolutely dismal, and he never learned tactically. This do plan A better stuff was soul destroying.

However, as another said, even John Grieg's tenure left us Super Ally the player.

Lastly, Warburton was still better than Caixinha, but that's not saying much.
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Good enough for winning the Championship, but if you recall he said he was buying players to start a squad capable of challenging in the SPL. That's what we were told.

Wes, Tav, Holt (don't believe he was a Warburton signing), Windass are the only stand outs. Wilson has been OK.
 
I'd throw in Alnwick & Gilks as decent signings as well, just not getting much of a look in due to big Wes.

I'm sure we got a fee for Gilks when he left too.
 
Warbs had a very good first summer window and a shambolic second summer window. Thankfully, his best work from his first summer are still with us and going from strength to strength, but we still have a few of his extremely poor dead wood to shift.
 
No manager is ever all good or all bad.

Warburton put an enormous smile on our faces with 5 months or so of football that is up there with any Rangers side for sheer enjoyment to watch.
He made some key signings like Wes, Tav and potentially Windass or even Halliday.

He also gave us a wonderful victory against Celtic - their defeat to a Rangers side which was a division below them at the time will forever stick in their throat. Their highly talked up side was played off the park in patches that day.

Shortly after that he unfortunately disappeared up his own arse and took Davie Weir with him and in the end he was in some kind of Groundhog Day of learning but never actually demonstrating any change in behaviour, selection or approach. He gave us a Scottish Cup Final debacle as well.

Every manager and player is part of the fabric of this club - for better or worse.
 
His signings were all risky, I can’t really think of one that wasn’t. Talented, but damaged goods for one reason or another. I think he was from the ‘throw enough shit and some will stick’ school.
 
Hindsight's a great thing but when he signed Barton and Kranjcar I thought they were great signings.

Not sure their failure was totally down to Warburton.
 
Hobjo said:
Good enough for winning the Championship, but if you recall he said he was buying players to start a squad capable of challenging in the SPL. That's what we were told.

Wes, Tav, Holt (don't believe he was a Warburton signing), Windass are the only stand outs. Wilson has been OK.
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Holt came in on a two week trial, same as Halliday.

If he wasn't Warburton's signing then who's was he ?
 
The difference between first good summer transfer window and the bad SPL transfer window was about balls.

When Warburton got here.The club was on it's knees on the park.He was a coup for us to get him here from Brentford.That gave him the ability to do things his way.. to buy young hungry players to develop and change the style of football.

by the SPL window. He was struggling with the pressure in Glasgow,the cup final defeat and the demands of winning 55 in our first season..so he caved in and instead of buying the young players that suit his style. He bought in .. Barton (33) Hill(37) Niko(31) Gilks(34) Garner(28) Senderous(31). He didn't have the balls to go in that season to do it his way and go in with the youngsters/hidden gems.He accepted common wisdom of us only being able to win the league by having lots of older heads and "know how" to win every week and experience.That worked for Walter..but Warburton isn't Walter.That's not what Warburton was good at. There was less development in his 2nd season because there was far less to be developed.

Warburton's few younger signings that season.. Windass/Rossiter/Hyndman/toral/bates were actually better than the older ones.If he'd stuck with that the whole way through. He might of kept his job for a bit longer and we'd be in an even more promising position right now.
 
For every success story under Warburton (Tavernier, Foderingham, Windass-ish) there’s been a Kiernan, a Crooks and a Joey Barton (it looked like a disaster waiting to happen, and it was).

Some good, some not so good.

In short, a mixed bag and far from a vindication of his attributes as a manager.

Pedro could be due similar reappraisal in the not too distant future.

Peña, Herrera and Cardoso look like massive wastes of resources, but Morelos could net us a fortune, while Dorrans, John and Candeias all look like good additions, the latter especially so.

We’ll have a better perspective on Murty’s (and Allen’s) ability to spot a player by the end of the season, but it certainly feels like we’re doing smarter business now than at any time in the last 2 or 3 years.
 
Barrymoped said:
I’d pretty much agree with the OP, unlike Pedro who was a complete disaster, Warburton did do a lot of good mixed in with some glaring flaws.
Click to expand...
Warburton had us playing great football,but my biggest gripe after every game was we need to get the ball up the park quicker
playing keep ball is great but we stopped at the 18 yard line and started all over again never scored enough goals from keep ball
 
Juanito2 said:
I wasn't a fan of Warburton when he left.I think he is naive and his overall approach flawed as manager.We all knew what was coming when he joined Forest in terms of pass pass pass to no effect,poor from set pieces,dominating the game without scoring and failure to learn from mistakes

When he left.I was also of the view.His transfer policy had been pretty disastrous and we'd been sold a pup that Frank Mcparland was some kind of guru(Allen is streets ahead of him)

But here's the twist.. I have come to the view in the past few weeks.Unlike Pedro who looks worse and worse in hindsight.Warburton might go from looking like he'd leave no legacy at all in the transfer market at all to leaving something that might be up for debate in the pub in 10 years time and improve in hindsight.Some of his signings are starting to bloom.Warburton might of been better sticking with youth development.

Wes
Tav
Windass ..

Warburton signings.the three of them collectively are gonna net us a very tidy sum from nothing..10 million pounds of talent easy. Murty will achieve far in the transfer market but it's not nothing as a legacy when they are part of 55 and bring in healthy transfer fee's.

Bates will be heart of our defence for years to come aswell.As with John Greig signing Ally.You don't need to be a top manager to leave a legacy.
Rossiter has big potential

There was five Warburton signings in the team last night and i don't think it's a stretch to say in 18 months time if we win 55. Wes/tav/Windass/bates/Holt/Rossiter will play parts.

Warburton's legacy in the transfer market is still correctly very tainted but it could look slightly different in years to come.
Click to expand...
Pedro signed Morelos, Jack and Dorrans and brought McCrorie through to the first team. All of whom have been massive contributors to our season, one of whom is going to be our biggest asset since Hutton and Jelavic and another who looks like being Rangers captain for the next 10 years.

He established Windass as a starting 11 player. He signed a couple of absolute turkeys as well but his record is standing up against Warburtons. Neither manager was anywhere near good enough and most of the players Warburton signed were either awful or poor under him and have subsequently improved under other managers. Windass, Wes and Tav that you mentioned would all have been sold for peanuts according to FF about 6 weeks ago.

There's a lot of revisionism in your post.
 
He picked up some great bargains.

The real failure was his attempt to balance out a youngish emerging team with the wrong experienced players-it was fatal-he changed things -only one plan indeed and it fell apart-we stopped doing what we were good at never mind progress.

In reality he had absolute buttons to spend but he made bad mistakes.

I'm not sure he was ever going to recover from the Scottish cup loss that was an almost fatal setback.
 
I think his role now should be head of youth recruitment and development, he's done as a manager though
 
Juanito2 said:
The difference between first good summer transfer window and the bad SPL transfer window was about balls.

When Warburton got here.The club was on it's knees on the park.He was a coup for us to get him here from Brentford.That gave him the ability to do things his way.. to buy young hungry players to develop and change the style of football.

by the SPL window. He was struggling with the pressure in Glasgow,the cup final defeat and the demands of winning 55 in our first season..so he caved in and instead of buying the young players that suit his style. He bought in .. Barton (33) Hill(37) Niko(31) Gilks(34) Garner(28) Senderous(31). He didn't have the balls to go in that season to do it his way and go in with the youngsters/hidden gems.He accepted common wisdom of us only being able to win the league by having lots of older heads and "know how" to win every week and experience.That worked for Walter..but Warburton isn't Walter.That's not what Warburton was good at. There was less development in his 2nd season because there was far less to be developed.

Warburton's few younger signings that season.. Windass/Rossiter/Hyndman/toral/bates were actually better than the older ones.If he'd stuck with that the whole way through. He might of kept his job for a bit longer and we'd be in an even more promising position right now.
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I'd argue that Warburton's player knowledge came largely from his involvement in the NextGen youth competition. That gave him a good knowledge of emerging talent and also players who had stalled. The issue was that the longer he was out of that scene, the more limited the pool of his knowledge. Plus the fact that our position even now doesn't let us seriously compete financially with many championship clubs. Hence the pool of players that Warburton knew about was very restricted to the hidden or stalled gems who we could afford. We bought them all pretty quickly. After that, there weren't many more. He turned to other pools of players because he had exhausted his specialist knowledge.

The other youth players he signed later were a much more mixed bag in terms of success. The best of them by reputation was Rossiter who was another NextGen graduate but who came into our price bracket due to the unusual conjunction of cross border rules and the fact that his persistent injury meant English clubs wouldn't spend big. The jury is still out on that gamble. Bates and Windass may turn out to be brilliant but it is hard to lay their success at Warburton when both were abject failures in his teams and only came onto a game under other managers.

Put it this way, if a bid of £500k had came in for either Tav or Windass last year under Warburton, we'd have bitten the hand off and said it was a good deal. Now, being played properly, the Windass bid was laughed at and we're praying no one bids for Tav at all. Warburton did well to sign them. But their value is based more on Murty and even Pedro playing them properly.
 
Warburton did sign a few gd players we shouldnt forget that. Windass , Wes & Tav will get us a fair amount of coin and Holt you could say has been a overal good signing. Wilson also on a free has been a success.

Cant really blame him for Rossiter and Niko as we were delighted we got them but Rossiter has been unlucky with injuries and Niko just doesnt have the legs but MW cant be blamed he was a free contract.

The issue is the players he signed thinking they were good enough for the step up to SPL.. Forrester , Kiernan , Garner , Dodoo , MOH , Hodson & Senderos!! The whole Barton situation was a mess & his lack of football brain cost him... This plan A pish pass pass pass. Hes been found out big time now.
 
bluenosebazza said:
Pedro signed Morelos, Jack and Dorrans and brought McCrorie through to the first team. All of whom have been massive contributors to our season, one of whom is going to be our biggest asset since Hutton and Jelavic and another who looks like being Rangers captain for the next 10 years.

He established Windass as a starting 11 player. He signed a couple of absolute turkeys as well but his record is standing up against Warburtons. Neither manager was anywhere near good enough and most of the players Warburton signed were either awful or poor under him and have subsequently improved under other managers. Windass, Wes and Tav that you mentioned would all have been sold for peanuts according to FF about 6 weeks ago.

There's a lot of revisionism in your post.
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I think history will show Pedro to be an absolute turkey...Warburton will hardly be remembered as anything other than a false dawn/failure.

But I think if you consider one gave us arguably the greatest single victory over Celtic and one delivered the worst result at home against them....you'll be getting closer to reality.
 
Chief scout trying to be a manager methinks.

Edit: The Irony is after spotting the talent the players got progressively worse the more they played for him. Thankfully, Holt, Fod, Wes (halliday????), seem to be regaining their potential now that he's away.
 
bluenosebazza said:
Pedro signed Morelos, Jack and Dorrans and brought McCrorie through to the first team. All of whom have been massive contributors to our season, one of whom is going to be our biggest asset since Hutton and Jelavic and another who looks like being Rangers captain for the next 10 years.

He established Windass as a starting 11 player. He signed a couple of absolute turkeys as well but his record is standing up against Warburtons. Neither manager was anywhere near good enough and most of the players Warburton signed were either awful or poor under him and have subsequently improved under other managers. Windass, Wes and Tav that you mentioned would all have been sold for peanuts according to FF about 6 weeks ago.

There's a lot of revisionism in your post.
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Windass under Warburton was constantly Injured.

Warburton however deserves great credit for managing to secure his signature.
We will at some point receive a healthy profit for our Initial outlay.

You may say that Pedro's record stands up to Warburton's, However I can give you £8 million reasons why I disagree.
 
He contradicted himself, and it went against him.
He constantly said that he wouldn't bring in a player who would upset the dressing room by being on big wages , and not be in the mould of the character of a Rangers player.Then he signed Joey Barton, and we all know what happened there.
Not detracting from the OP which makes some good points. As others have also mentioned, there were other signings which were not so good.
I still shake my head regarding Sendros, and what he must have made out of us.
 
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