How far behind are they?

Johansen said:
They've got a huge rebuild on their hands, Brown is done, Edouard is unsettled, McGregor has lost his way, they need a reliable keeper and two or three defenders add to that Griffiths looks done as well. We keep improving the squad and they'll be three years to rebuild a squad that can threaten
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They’re not starting from as low a point as Gerrard.

This season illustrated what a poor coach Lennon is. A decent appointment and they’ll be up-to-speed relatively quickly, at least against others in the league.

We’ll need a couple of first-team starters for the midfield and maybe elsewhere depending upon sales.
 
I think they’re where we were after Warburton but with more money, so I don’t see them making a Pedro type error but they have a lot of decisions to make which really need to all be right and work together. DoF,manager, scouting and recruitment then all the players. If one of those appointments are a mistake it could set them back a year or so and be expensive. I suspect their absentee landlord will put money in to help.
 
We passed them last summer and the gap is increasing every day they don’t appoint someone competent.

They will make a lot of noise this summer but will take them 2+ seasons.

Plus their fans are on tilt.
 
Bad as they are - they'll still be capable of beating SPL teams apart from us - even with relatively little improvement

That leaves the games between us & them -
If the truth be told - There's been many a title won (by both us & them) without the best head-to-head record between us

While I expect us to be both consistent beating the also rans & against them next season - the gap might not be anything like this season

Firstly our consistency this season has been phenomenal imo & it may be unrealistic to replicate that (hope not of course)

Secondly - it may also be unrealistic to expect them to make no improvements to the poor level they performed at this season

I believe they are far behind us - but they could rectify a lot of their current faults a lot easier than some people think imo
 
Hillheadbear said:
They do need a rebuild just as we did three years ago. That said, they still have some decent players on the books and a good manager with a sizable budget can make them competitive pretty quickly. The key, therefore, is whether they are willing to 'splash the cash' to get the manager and the players they need.
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What decent players?

Ajer and Edu - both will be off.

Rest are shite.
 
gersandproud said:
Bad as they are - they'll still be capable of beating SPL teams apart from us - even with relatively little improvement

That leaves the games between us & them -
If the truth be told - There's been many a title won (by both us & them) without the best head-to-head record between us

While I expect us to be both consistent beating the also rans & against them next season - the gap might not be anything like this season

Firstly our consistency this season has been phenomenal imo & it may be unrealistic to replicate that (hope not of course)

Secondly - it may also be unrealistic to expect them to make no improvements to the poor level they performed at this season

I believe they are far behind us - but they could rectify a lot of their current faults a lot easier than some people think imo
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Agree - we have to make sure we don't the same mistakes they did and think our team is a finished article, keep players who might want to leave and make late forced crap signings. This won't happen under Gerrard.
 
About 20 points behind the last time I checked and if you had to but that into some sort of context.

About the level of us around 2017.
 
20 points at the moment. That will be scratched next season and we go again.

They made the mistake of believing they were still better than us and their failure to prepare has bit them on the arse big time.

The difference between us and them is that we are a club that have never rested on our laurels and we show no signs of doing so.

They blew their chance and now it’s ours
 
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They are a decent manager and one window away from clawing back ground. We came from the abyss, they are merely wrong attitude and leaderless. We must not get complacent.
 
Ibroxkev said:
20 points at the moment. That will be scratched next season and we go again.

They made the mistake of believing they were still better than us and their failure to prepare has bit them on the arse big time.

The difference between us and them is that we are a club that have never rested on our laurels and we show now signs of doing so.

They blew their chance and now it’s ours
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I think they tried to prepare but their recruitment was a disaster and Lennon was a terrible manager. He actually managed to make good players worse.

Get a decent manager in and they will be competitive although maybe not as good as us. If their manager has a good budget then they are a couple of windows away from us. So we need to keep progressing, keep improving. European football is key to that. I want to see us moving the ball at pace the way some of these European outfits can.
 
Full team concised of over appreciated no users .. they are miles behind and not just by squad but by the professionalism of there club in general.. imo they will take at least the 3 seasons Gerrard took to bring us back if not more.. the football world hates them because they believe they deserve better!! If u make your bed you sleep in it. So we welcome the chase when it comes
 
Brian Laudrup said:
They are still ahead is the attitude we must adopt or we could take our eye off the ball
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Its also the reality despite this season.

Much of Celtic's debacle performances can be traced to the fact they had a fraud as manager but a legit coach, even someone above average would turn a lot of those players around. Not into World Beaters but they cannot possibly be as bad again.

They also have a lot of money despite the contract mess they ended up in with a number of assets and signing one or two quality players is something theyll surely do, even if they dont really want to spend a lot they must.

Next season Rangers will find it difficult to equally give everything to both the Champions League and Title defence so that goes in their favour domestically.

Of course much depends on who they appoint as manager and how well they navigate the sell on and signing of players. At the moment theyre still ahead but if we keep our eye on the ball and stay this focused then they certainly will be behind and falling further.
 
If they had replaced popcorn teeth with a decent manager in November the league would have been a tight affair as their current squad has some good players who wouldn’t have lost and drawn games under a good manager.

celtics biggest problem now is that the majority of their current first 11 will be away in the summer with the whole spine of team needing replaced .
 
I think some on here might be in for a rude awakening, if they think we are going to piss through next season. Giving the automatic qualification to the champions league for the winner, the vermin simple can't afford for us to get access to that money, especially if we make it to the group stages next year. Im preparing myself for a very tight season.
 
flootbon said:
They won the league the season after Helicopter Sunday

So anything can happen.
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They should probably have won that too though and everyone had them Champions well before the finale. This is a near full rebuild job for them with new CEO, DOF, management team and backroom staff. They’ll need some new scouts and recruitment if last season was anything to go by.
 
Fact is these things can change very quickly. A few serious injuries on our side and a few decent signings by them then it's all change again. Look at Liverpool this season.
 
Brodybear said:
Fact is these things can change very quickly. A few serious injuries on our side and a few decent signings by them then it's all change again. Look at Liverpool this season.
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True, but that’s always the case. Sometimes it happens that way. Usually these things are cyclical though. Lets hope so anyway. I’d rather be in our shoes right now put it that way.
 
Corkinator said:
Just thinking there, how far behind do you think they are? I reckon they’re where we were about 2 years ago, NOW!
So where will they be at the end of the season when they need 13 players? Where we were 3/4 years ago?
it’s Gona take more than 1 or 2 transfer windows to even get up to a par IMHO!
1. tgey can’t afford it.
2. Loads of new personnel behind the scenes.
3. New manager.
4. Time for players to settle and gel
5. They’re only looking at doing it half arsed because they’ll probably keep the back room staff.
There are more reasons but I think they’re in for a massive shock.
Hopefully we keep going and kick on again next season.
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They're not actually that much off their points totals at this stage for the past few seasons. They haven't got a bad as the media likes to make out. The difference this season is that we have been significantly better than we've been in the past few seasons.
 
The gap between drawing with some premier league teams and beating them is actually pretty minimal.
Overall the difference between a team struggling and one succeeding can be 2 or 3 players. The others in the team either get raised up or go mediocre.
The biggest problem they have is that their biggest asset is almost certainly going to leave so they need to replace him with someone as good AND add the other players. If Ajer goes as well, they have a serious job to do. I still marvel that they spent most of the season thinking they should use Ajer to solve the right back problem when they were a horror show at centre back, but made me happy!
 
This sort of talk is what got Celtic into the trouble they are in now. Them and every journo in sight labelled us as years and years behind and it made them complacent. The truth is the right appointment and the right signings put them back in the mix with us.

We should learn from their mistakes and keep playing and signing as if we need to catch them. Never get complacent and Stay humble and we can lead them for many years.
 
trueblue77 said:
True, but that’s always the case. Sometimes it happens that way. Usually these things are cyclical though. Lets hope so anyway. I’d rather be in our shoes right now put it that way.
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Agreed, as long as they don't come out all guns blazing akin to advocaat after we didn't get 10 in a row, which I don't think they will then we are in a lot better position.
 
MearnsUnionist said:
Do they though?

Of the players they'll still have next season, I'd say McGregor and Forrest fall into the "good" category.

Other than that, I'm struggling to think of any others.

That said though, if they get their recruitment right for once, they could improve quite dramatically in 2 or 3 transfer windows.
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I would generally agree with this assessment, although I don’t see it with Forrest quite so much. However, the word of caution I would note is that any players they’ve signed in the past two seasons (Duffy and that horrific goalkeeper aside) may actually be decent players. We’ve no way of knowing whether they would have shown more under a professional manager.

I feel like our squad, culture and management are all miles ahead of them right now. But whenever this question came up about us I thought back to the end of Advocaat’s second season when we thought they’d take years to be a credible challenge again... That thought alone is enough to prevent me getting complacent.
 
Gdawg said:
They have a major rebuild on their hands.

GK - all 3 are shite
LB - One is a wee lassie on loan, the other is bang average
CB - Only decent one, Ajer, wants away. All others pish, on loan, of in duffster's case both!
RB - loan

Mid -
Only decent one in Turnbull, but has now been elevated to Xavi standard due to others being pish.
Broon - done
Christie - wants away
McGregor - had a pish season, prob wants away
Rogic, Soro..... average

Forwards
Edouard - wants away
Ajeti - fat, lazy, pish
Thumb - tik tokking junkie (allegedly..) done
Ellyanoussi - loan
Kilimalla - utter pish
Forrest - decent if he get's fit again

They also need to pick the right manager, but whoever they pick, has at least half a team to build, and that's before you look to have a strong bench, which made all the difference to our challenge this year.

They are in a total mess, which is just wonderful to witness :)
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They are a total mess mate

I can’t see how they forge a title winning team out that pile of shit even with selling the 3 best players where edourd ajer and Christie

wgat do they have left?
Mcgregor
Turnbsll
Forest

they need at least 12 players imo
 
Brodybear said:
Agreed, as long as they don't come out all guns blazing akin to advocaat after we didn't get 10 in a row, which I don't think they will then we are in a lot better position.
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I don’t see it being like that, but you never know, like you say. We invested very heavily in Advocaate’s team. I don’t think they have that advantage over us now. A lot depends on what we do and who comes in and goes.
 
Corkinator said:
Just thinking there, how far behind do you think they are? I reckon they’re where we were about 2 years ago, NOW!
So where will they be at the end of the season when they need 13 players? Where we were 3/4 years ago?
it’s Gona take more than 1 or 2 transfer windows to even get up to a par IMHO!
1. tgey can’t afford it.
2. Loads of new personnel behind the scenes.
3. New manager.
4. Time for players to settle and gel
5. They’re only looking at doing it half arsed because they’ll probably keep the back room staff.
There are more reasons but I think they’re in for a massive shock.
Hopefully we keep going and kick on again next season.
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I think what this thread reveals a lack of appreciation as to how good we are at the moment. Yes I think the skankies can quickly improve on this season but it takes time to build a really good team. We are already looking ahead with signings like Wright and Simpson and they are starting out. I am very confident for next season but my biggest concern is the number of our players who suffer relatively long term injuries. Clearly the strategy is to have immediate and equally (almost), as good replacements but if the injuries become more protracted then it might challenge us. I hope we have some good youngsters like Patterson who can make the step up, otherwise we are relying heavily on our recruitment team to identify the right players.
 
I tend to think that these cycles of change tend to coincide with one team beginning to reach the point of diminishing returns (ageing key players, successful managers leaving or retiring). This coupled with a resurgence in the fortunes of the key adversary.

There is much of that at play here, though it might have been different had Super perhaps deployed a more strategic approach to restoring the club to its previous levels. I think by the time we had got back up to the SPL under Warburton, very few of the players were either premier quality or indeed young players bred for success by coming through the ranks at the club.

The reality of how ordinary the filth team which dominated Scottish football was there for all to see in their forays into Europe. They were typically cannon fodder, not just in the CL where they were horsed in a manner to which no Scottish side had been horsed previously (they have fared little better in the EL).

At the first sign of proper domestic competition they have buckled and would have most likely buckled the season before had we not imploded after the winter break. I think how far ahead we can be is entirely down to SG, the board and the level of player and planning they institute for next season, the CL and beyond.

Because in reality the filth cannot build a winning mentality from scratch and the one that they had was underpinned by a huge dose of the emperors new clothes. (A hubris and delusion based on tilting the table and therefore believing they were unassailable).

SG has instituted a very palpable winning mentality which I truly believe will be further solidified by the players who come in during the summer window. I believe given the kind of club we are becoming under Gerrard that no stone will be left unturned and that no backward step will be taken. To that end I believe the filth will be playing at least two to five years of catch up (depending who they hire, how strategic they are and how much money the notoriously cheap filth board decide to throw at it).
 
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LJ50 said:
I would generally agree with this assessment, although I don’t see it with Forrest quite so much. However, the word of caution I would note is that any players they’ve signed in the past two seasons (Duffy and that horrific goalkeeper aside) may actually be decent players. We’ve no way of knowing whether they would have shown more under a professional manager.

I feel like our squad, culture and management are all miles ahead of them right now. But whenever this question came up about us I thought back to the end of Advocaat’s second season when we thought they’d take years to be a credible challenge again... That thought alone is enough to prevent me getting complacent.
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Yep, that's fair mate.

However, this is a far greater rebuilding situation than even the O'Neil era and it will be on a much smaller budget.

I'm certainly not complacent, but there's no question that with the amount of loan players they have, plus the large number of players who are unhappy and nearing the end of their contracts, there is going to be a massive turnover of players in the close season.

Throw in a new management team, plus a new CEO and it's pretty much a case of rebuilding from scratch.

I don't see this all happening in next season's transfer windows.

It'll take at least 2 seasons imo.
 
trueblue77 said:
I don’t see it being like that, but you never know, like you say. We invested very heavily in Advocaate’s team. I don’t think they have that advantage over us now. A lot depends on what we do and who comes in and goes.
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We should know early doors next season. If we can get into champs league and they don't then that's a game changer.
 
Tailwind said:
What would you consider a healthy budget? Bearing in mind they need around 7 first XI players, never mind the squad players also required.

Of the current squad, minus the expected departures in the summer, they would require

Gk
RB CB CB LB
MID
Christie McGregor
Turnbull
FORWARD FORWARD

A healthy budget for Rangers this summer could be say 10mil plus reinvest whatever we bring in

A "healthy budget" for Celtic needs to buy a keeper (or 2) a right back (ideally 2), 3 to 4 centrebacks, a left back, 2-3 midfielders and 3 forwards.

A "healthy budget" for that lot is about 100mil.

Can it be done for less? Sure. But that requires a lot more "getting lucky". Thats not the same as the healthy budget you brought up.

What is considered a healthy budget depends on a clubs situation and need. And their's is dire.

Thats not arrogance. Its just looking at the available info.

And thats before you even get into where is all this money coming from that they need?
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I'd hope 'Dodgy Desmond' doesn't dip into his retirement fund.Barring that as you allude to,they'll struggle to raise enough funds to enable a proper rebuild.

It took our staff three seasons of being very smart to turn us around to where we are today,they'd need at least that imo- and I doubt they will employ people half as clever as we have.

Like I say,I hope they give Keane the gig.
Stuck in the dark ages,just like their rancid club.
 
Theyll be fine against the dross as most teams write off games against them.

The wheels have fallen off for them this season. But i suspect they will use the 2 remaining OF Games to gague where they are. Remember they still think they're the better team.

Manager appointment & if DD decides to fling some money at them will determine how quickly they recover.

We just need to keep focus on ourselves and not make their mistake of taking our eye off the ball.
 
They have got a lot to get right in a very short span of time. A shorter amount of time this year considering the Euros are this summer. DoF, Manager/Head Coach, backroom staff and a slew of new signings. New chief exec will need to find his feet quickly in a new industry. Need to win back the trust of the fans as well. We bought into the Gerrard project quite quickly. They need to make a similarly inspired appointment imo.

They are probably 3 transfer windows behind, although that depends how much of our squad we retain this summer and how well we strengthen. If we have another window like last summer, that just piles on the pressure. If we have a poorer or poor window then they could claw it back quicker.

But it's more the changes behind the scenes they need to get correct. Need to get the DoF and Managerial appointments spot on. Get those right and player recruitment shouldn't be much of an issue. We can't afford to write them off next season though. I don't think Gerrard and Co will, but the fans should expect more of a challenge next season.
 
They made a huge error in underestimating how much we could/did improve we shouldn't be too worried currently as they have as much if not more or a rebuilding job as we had but we proved that with the right manager and backroom staff it can be done. Though I don't think we should be too worried currently
 
They are never going to be far behind due to the poor standard of other teams in the league. Even if they rebuild next season, it won’t take much to beat everyone else bar us. We need to be as consistent as we’ve been this season. Good start puts them under pressure right away.
 
A team that lost the most goals in the Europa group stage ever.

Then sell off their best players.

Not much coming through youth wise.

They need 30-40m to escape the Euro group stages.

Factor in our summer business plans and I would be very worried if I were them and praying for SG to leave.
 
ForGodForCountryForever said:
Its also the reality despite this season.

Much of Celtic's debacle performances can be traced to the fact they had a fraud as manager but a legit coach, even someone above average would turn a lot of those players around. Not into World Beaters but they cannot possibly be as bad again.

They also have a lot of money despite the contract mess they ended up in with a number of assets and signing one or two quality players is something theyll surely do, even if they dont really want to spend a lot they must.

Next season Rangers will find it difficult to equally give everything to both the Champions League and Title defence so that goes in their favour domestically.

Of course much depends on who they appoint as manager and how well they navigate the sell on and signing of players. At the moment theyre still ahead but if we keep our eye on the ball and stay this focused then they certainly will be behind and falling further.
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This thread is mental.

The "reality" is that "they are still ahead".

The guys getting vociferously challenged are the ones who say Rangers are ahead based on being 20 points ahead and having greater stability and quality on and off the field.

Apparently a Celtic squad that this summer will be down to about 3 or 4 first XI players that anyone would be happy with, they only need 1 or 2 players.

~ ~ ~ ~ ~

Of course we cannot rest on our laurels. And with enormous investment in the playing staff and making perfect appointments for DoF and manager they can close the gap significantly. But we shouldn't be saying that is 100% going to occur. Its literally a dream scenario required by them all in one window.

It could happen. But it's more likely that it won't.

Gerrard is a winner and will work to improve our squad regardless of what is going on across the city. Pretending Celtic are the better team/club, ahead of us and going from strength to strength will make no difference to that. There is no value in fans on this thread pretending the situation is the polar opposite of what it actually is. Gerrard will do a professional job regardless of some fans choosing to live in make believe land.
 
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BrooklynBlue said:
They’re not starting from as low a point as Gerrard.

This season illustrated what a poor coach Lennon is. A decent appointment and they’ll be up-to-speed relatively quickly, at least against others in the league.

We’ll need a couple of first-team starters for the midfield and maybe elsewhere depending upon sales
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A decent appointment and they could have been up to speed relatively quickly, this season. Unfortunately for them they have to replace a large part of their first 18, and their manager, and their DoF, probably their first team coaches, maybe also reorganise different departments under a new CEO who doesn't start till July.
 
cambridgeblue said:
A team that lost the most goals in the Europa group stage ever.

Then sell off their best players.

Not much coming through youth wise.

They need 30-40m to escape the Euro group stages.

Factor in our summer business plans and I would be very worried if I were them and praying for SG to leave.
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Most of their decent youth prospects have left over the last year.
 
The idea that a decent transfer window and they’ll be challenging us is mind blowing to me. A decent window is finding 3 good first team players. They need at least a whole new back line plus a gk. That’s not taking into consideration the holes in there team elsewhere. They need a few good transfer windows before they will challenge us imo
 
rfc_chris_rfc said:
The idea that a decent transfer window and they’ll be challenging us is mind blowing to me. A decent window is finding 3 good first team players. They need at least a whole new back line plus a gk. That’s not taking into consideration the wholes in there team elsewhere. They need a few good transfer windows before they will challenge us imo
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A good window would see 75% of signings being a success - so if they need 8/9 for the first XI they need to sign 12+
 
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