A clear example from the Scotland v NornIron game on why the Arthur Boruc defence is flawed in the Scottish context

Perversely, under humzas new hate crime legislation, he could be prosecuted for that if anyone decides they are offended by that.

Police scotlands guidance to its own officers is that offence is in the eye of the beholder. Quite mad.
 
Doddy170 said:
Surely an act of religious reverence is not something that's done in an attempt to rile people? More "worrying and alarming" is the RC church's refusal to differentiate between genuine religious reverence and someone being an arsehole.
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Boruc was never cautioned by the PF for crossing himself. That was a blatant lie allowed to be peddled by the Scottish media and the PF for almost a week before the truth emerged that it was for making a one-fingered salute to the crowd. But when did the truth ever matter in Scotland.?
 
What in earth is wrong with this mob?

Most probably the cult of a religion he was brought up on but its almost all of them are like that.
 
Rangers_2001 said:
Not sure how you could reasonably be offended by that but that’s just my opinion.
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Its the same as when at P@rkhead one time going to game and a couple stopped in the middle of the street kneeled looked at us and make the sign of the cross. I'm insulted they think I will be offended, they think I'll be angry. FFS we just laughed. It's them who are bringing their own Christianity (if they are believers) into disrepute.
 
mdingwall said:
Well spotted Sherlock.
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To be honest I'm not sure why you're so annoyed by it. Stupid simple man makes stupid gesture, not really a surprise or particularly offensive. In fact I'd go as far as saying it's funny as his team have just been humped.
 
RobGer said:
Its the same as when at P@rkhead one time going to game and a couple stopped in the middle of the street kneeled looked at us and make the sign of the cross. I'm insulted they think I will be offended, they think I'll be angry. FFS we just laughed. It's them who are bringing their own Christianity (if they are believers) into disrepute.
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Did you put some coins into the paper cup they were holding up.? :))
 
PhilippeTheFair said:
Did I say he was wrong?

It's an ignorant clown doing it looking for a reaction of that there's no doubt.

He didn't get one.

Point I'm making is, it's no just Kaffliks who can do it or have an exclusivity with it.

Jocko or O'Jock has no idea.
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Did I say what you said was wrong ?

Nobody is questioning the act of blessing yourself, Catholic or non catholic. Others have said it doesn’t or wouldn’t bother them getting it done to their face, that’s their prerogative. In the context of doing it at a football match while facing a group of people that he doesn’t know, there was obviously an inflammatory aspect to it.
 
Texas ranger said:
Did I say what you said was wrong ?

Nobody is questioning the act of blessing yourself, Catholic or non catholic. Others have said it doesn’t or wouldn’t bother them getting it done to their face, that’s their prerogative. In the context of doing it at a football match while facing a group of people that he doesn’t know, there was obviously an inflammatory aspect to it.
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No, you said the OP was right. I didn't disagree.

Point I'm making again here is, he's thinking what he's doing is bamming up Protestants.

Luther urged the Reformed to give themselves the message twice a day, morning and night.

If the dumb fcuk knew anything, he would know Protestants should be doing this also, as per previous post and inoffensive to those adhering to Luther's original word.

Just ignorance abound from the cnut in the tweet.
 
RobGer said:
Its the same as when at P@rkhead one time going to game and a couple stopped in the middle of the street kneeled looked at us and make the sign of the cross. I'm insulted they think I will be offended, they think I'll be angry. FFS we just laughed. It's them who are bringing their own Christianity (if they are believers) into disrepute.
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I remember going over to Parkhead for the Duncan Ferguson debut game on the Clarkston bus and some Celtic fan in a works van took out his false teeth and put them on the dashboard as some kind of act of aggression… absolutely bonkers o_O
 
Doddy170 said:
Surely an act of religious reverence is not something that's done in an attempt to rile people? More "worrying and alarming" is the RC church's refusal to differentiate between genuine religious reverence and someone being an arsehole.
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Did it not turn out that Boruc hadn’t blessed himself in front of supporters (Celtic or opposition) up until then as well?

That was a fucking weird time all together with them really upping the ante on “anti-Catholicism” in football and society in general.
The bigotry of the Hokey-Cokey and all that.
 
si72 said:
One poster said he booed GSTK but sings it at Ibrox.
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I remember recognising someone that I would see regularly in the East Enclosure singing all sorts, including One Terry Butcher/Chris Woods etc who I also saw at Hampden signing about “English bastards” at a Scotland game.
 
NegrisLob said:
Perversely, under humzas new hate crime legislation, he could be prosecuted for that if anyone decides they are offended by that.

Police scotlands guidance to its own officers is that offence is in the eye of the beholder. Quite mad.
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The wanker signs would probably be a more assured complaint.
 
Blu_ultra said:
I love how the vast majority of NI fans completely ignored him. I’m a Scotland fan, but that was embarrassing.
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Just as embarrassing as the booing of our British National Anthem by Scotland fans last night
Who are actually British...GSTK
 
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PhilippeTheFair said:
Luther saw no wrong with Protestants doing this. This invocation isn't exclusive to Papists.

The Sign of the Cross in the Reformation​

At the time of the Reformation, things were no different. Conservative reformers such as the Church of England’s Archbishop Thomas Cranmer and, in Germany, Martin Luther did not abolish signing the cross. Still, they endeavored to appropriate its use to significant occasions such as Holy Baptism, Holy Communion, affirming the Creed, and the benediction at the end of Mass. Luther was especially concerned about retaining this meaningful act of worship, preserving nearly all of its liturgical and devotional uses. In the realm of catechesis, Luther took his lead from St. Cyril, Bishop of Jerusalem (AD 315 – 386), who, in his ancient catechism for children, remarked:

Let us not then be ashamed to confess the Crucified. Be the Cross our seal made with boldness by our fingers on our brow and in everything; over the bread we eat, and the cup we drink; in our comings in, and goings out; before our sleep, when we lie down and when we awake… It is the Sign of the faithful and the dread of evils; for He has triumphed over them in it, having made a show of them openly; for when they see the Cross, they are reminded of the Crucified; they are afraid of Him, Who hath bruised the heads of the dragon. Despise not the seal of baptism, because of the freeness of the Gift; but for this rather honor thy Benefactor. [5]

Luther thought no different. He purposed to see to it that all children of the Reformation were liberated to worship the Lord in this most meaningful and dignified expression of faith and devotion. Consequently, he encouraged the signing of the cross with the invocation in his directions for morning and evening prayer within the Small Catechism. There Luther writes:

"In the morning, when you get up, make the sign of the holy cross and say, ‘In the Name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. Amen.’ … In the evening when you go to bed, make the sign of the holy cross and say…." [6]
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Ministers do it regularly.
 
Lauders94 said:
Also who could forget this piece of comedy gold from that clown in goals v Northern Ireland? :D:D

The Ulstermen certainly enjoyed it as did I !!

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And as usual, they desperately tried to pretend there was a sectarian element to the crowd singing ‘Artur Boruc, Ulsters Number 1’ for pretty much the rest of the game.
 
ChildOfGoth said:
Looks to me like he doesn’t use the gesture properly it’s like he isn’t an RC just a simple little man
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No, I’d suggest he’s almost definitely an RC.
Not untypical of most who claim to be RC’s, they haven’t got a clue about their own religion, seldom go to their church, and use it only to slate or enrage, or attempt to enrage, the Protestant communities.
 
Doddy170 said:
Surely an act of religious reverence is not something that's done in an attempt to rile people? More "worrying and alarming" is the RC church's refusal to differentiate between genuine religious reverence and someone being an arsehole.
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They simply would not accept - or pretended - that people would cross themselves ostentatiously in order to rile others.

At the time the Scottish Catholic newspaper stated outright that Boruc had been cautioned by police simply for making the sign of the cross in front of Rangers fans. The paper was brandished on Reporting Scotland with the RC Church’s interpretation stated as fact. Naturally this made the headlines first in the Scottish papers, then the London press and finally in countless media outlets throughout the world.

Salmond joined in, strangely wallowing in just how ‘backward’ Scotland was being portrayed as. The BBC gave it big licks and refused to delve further. Being a Bank Holiday weekend there were no official voices urging caution. Only on the Monday did Solicitor General Eilish Angiolini issued a statement bemoaning the lamentable quality of reporting and denying the story. Naturally, far less coverage was given to this than to the original story.

Rangers fans had been trashed around the world on the basis of a lie and it was a case of mission accomplished.
 
deedle said:
At the time of the Arthur Boruc carry-on, the RC Church was at pains to say that absolutely no-one would ever make the sign of the cross to provoke or incite.


The Roman Catholic Church has criticised prosecutors for cautioning a Celtic goalkeeper who crossed himself during a match against Rangers.

Artur Boruc was cautioned for a breach of the peace over the incident at an Old Firm match at Ibrox in February.

The church called it "worrying and alarming" as the sign of the cross was a "gesture of religious reverence".

However, the Crown Office said the decision was based on the player's behaviour, rather than a single act.


Was the chap in the video was making a "gesture of religious reverence"?
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I remember an old firm game at their dump in the early 2000s. There was a stop in play while a player was injured or something. The camera focused on the back of Barry Ferguson’s shirt, with their lot in the background screaming abuse and goading him. Front and centre were two fat brain-donors practically going purple while they made that big exaggerated cross sign, interspersed with two-fingers and wanker signs etc.

Hardly a gesture of religious reverence in this case.
 
derek28 said:
To be honest I'm not sure why you're so annoyed by it. Stupid simple man makes stupid gesture, not really a surprise or particularly offensive. In fact I'd go as far as saying it's funny as his team have just been humped.
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I think you need to look beyond the gesture and under the skin of why he would be making the gesture and in the manner he was.

To gesture like that to the NI boys is done through hatred due to his assumption that all there are Protestant and he hates them, trying to get a rise out them and offend them through hate.

People make the sign of the cross for millions of reason and most due to faith and the sense it gives them and attachment to their church.

These people then fair play, knock themselves out, the crack on and are left to it.

This moron is making it to try and hurt or anger other people. Not for the himself and his belief.

He should have been lifted, I hope he gets tracked down and dealt with.

Arse Hole
 
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