Jaws2
Well-Known Member
It was in response to the poster who wondered if he might ask for a move.
Allan McGregor or Jon McLaughlin
- Thread starter DJ Blue
- Start date
Robert California
Well-Known Member
I don’t want to pour petrol on the flames, or alarm anyone fiercely loyal to McGregor, but consider this:
Our recruitment now is extremely targeted and scientific and goes way beyond just signing players we think might be good. Player stats, strengths and weaknesses are all well assessed over a period to ascertain their suitability to fit into our ethos and way of play.
McLaughlin appears to be very strong in the areas that McGregor is weakest in, high cross balls, kicking, distribution and he is taller.
My money is on him being carefully selected as a genuine first pick option rather than just a good freebie back-up and it is clear that his strengths compliment our team and style.
Our recruitment now is extremely targeted and scientific and goes way beyond just signing players we think might be good. Player stats, strengths and weaknesses are all well assessed over a period to ascertain their suitability to fit into our ethos and way of play.
McLaughlin appears to be very strong in the areas that McGregor is weakest in, high cross balls, kicking, distribution and he is taller.
My money is on him being carefully selected as a genuine first pick option rather than just a good freebie back-up and it is clear that his strengths compliment our team and style.
Can you give an example of a ‘backup’ keeper being dropped despite being excellent and keeping clean sheets? During this time he has also displayed strengths that the ‘first choice’ keeper lacks so yes I disagree that it’s as black and white as saying the guy with 1 on his back will come straight back because that’s just the way it is.
Dom
Well-Known Member
It would send entirely the wrong message to the rest of the squad, McLaughlin has done nothing wrong to deserve being dropped. He's had four clean sheets on the spin and made some good saves in those games.
It's his jersey until he puts in a performance that means he doesn't deserve it.
Laudrup97
Well-Known Member
I am a fan of McGregor, he has stopped some amount of shots you thought were in, but for all that he is prone to losing the rag and got us in situations previously. His distribution at points too isn't the best.
Since Mclaughlin has been in goals the back four seem more settled, he is assured when he comes for crosses and can play under pressure.
For me its McLaughlins to lose.
Since Mclaughlin has been in goals the back four seem more settled, he is assured when he comes for crosses and can play under pressure.
For me its McLaughlins to lose.
Newtown Bear
Well-Known Member
Andy Goram
BrooklynBlue
Well-Known Member
I know he's not been under significant pressure but we seldom are domestically. McLaughlin has made several decent stops, comes out confidently for crosses, is comfortable with the ball at his feet and looks to release the ball a lot quicker.
It'll be harsh to be dropped.
It'll be harsh to be dropped.
Chester Loyal
Well-Known Member
I’m a McGregor guy but McLaughlin should keep his place at the moment.
Korova Milk Bar
Well-Known Member
McLaughlin should be our starting goalie but it's brilliant to have two quality keepers. McLaughlin has better distribution, better with the ball at his feet etc. Made a brilliant save today but McGregor is clearly approaching the end of his footballing career but he still has it. We saw it last season.
I would still play McGregor in a game against them because of his experience.
Did we get McLaughlin on a free?
I would still play McGregor in a game against them because of his experience.
Did we get McLaughlin on a free?
Disraeli
Well-Known Member
I get the impression McLaughlin could keep another 20 clean sheets in a row and there would still be people arguing he should be dropped for McGregor.
Mclaughlin is now in possession of the jersey and has presided over a period where we look stronger defensively than at any point since Walter was manager.
A good defence works as a unit and a goalkeeper is a key component to that.I dare say that McLaughlin’s communication and organisational skills are a huge factor in why we currently look so strong there.
Mclaughlin is now in possession of the jersey and has presided over a period where we look stronger defensively than at any point since Walter was manager.
A good defence works as a unit and a goalkeeper is a key component to that.I dare say that McLaughlin’s communication and organisational skills are a huge factor in why we currently look so strong there.
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Chester Loyal
Well-Known Member
I agree but their arguments are valid.
McGregor is probably a top 3 goalkeeper in our entire history and lost his job due to injury. He’s played as well as ever the past 2 years.
McLaughlin is miles better than I ever thought he was going to be but I just feel more comfortable with McGregor in goals. I can’t really properly explain it but it is what it is.
Dulce et Decorum Est
Well-Known Member
Reminds me of the Ronald Waterreus situation when he was brought in to cover for Stefan Klos. For me McLaughlin retains the jersey, absolute fantastic signing that fills me with confidence. Contrast to the other side of the City and £5m goal keepers ain’t ronseal.
BigSteve
Well-Known Member
No problem:
Alisson Becker praises Adrian as he closes in on his first team return
Who will Jurgen Klopp pick at the weekend?
metro.co.uk
All this sentiment nonsense is just that.
No one is saying JM is not a good player. No one is saying he has not done the little he has had to do well. No is saying there aren’t things he appears to do better than AM. E.g. playing the ball with his feet.
People talk about Gerrard having his favourites, undroppables e.g. Goldson And they said the same about Warburton, Murty, Coisty, Walter, Eck etc.
This concept of favourites tends to be even stronger when it comes to a managers keeper. I still think AM holds this position in Gerards eyes. I could be wrong. Ignoring AM and JM for the moment, generally there has to be a massive swing in fortunes, in loss of form and outstanding performances between #1 and back up for this position to change. I don’t believe we’re there yet.
Proof will be in the pudding, but I think it won’t be long before SG demonstrates who is no. 1 is.
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NDC bear forever
Well-Known Member
Can’t really compare it. Adrian is utter pish for the EPL & Alisson is at a world class level in EPL standards. McGregor & McLaughlin are nothing extremely good for the SPFL.No problem:
Alisson Becker praises Adrian as he closes in on his first team return
Who will Jurgen Klopp pick at the weekend?
All this sentiment nonsense is just that.
No one is not saying JM is not a good player. No one is saying he has not done the little he has had to do well. No is saying there aren’t things he appears to do better than AM. E.g. playing the ball with his feet.
People talk about Gerrard having his favourites, undroppables e.g. Goldson And they said the same about Warburton, Murty, Coisty, Walter, Eck etc.
This concept of favourites tends to be even stronger when it comes to a managers keeper. I still think AM holds this position in Gerards eyes. I could be wrong. Ignoring AM and JM for the moment, generally there has to be a massive swing in fortunes, in loss of form and outstanding performances between #1 and back up for this position to change. I don’t believe we’re there yet.
Proof will be in the pudding, but I think it won’t be long before SG demonstrates who is no. 1 is.
BigSteve
Well-Known Member
They specifically talk about him playing very well and making lots of good saves in the period Alison was out.
If people just refuse to accept the point I am making, which is mangers often refer back to their chosen number 1 without a mountain of evidence to change their mind, because they are desperate to see JM stay in goal, fine.
I’m not even saying JM deserves to be dropped or AM deserves to come back in. I’m just pointing out how managers often treat their number 1 position.
ald
Well-Known Member
I am not sure I really follow the logic of the “he’s not done anything wrong yet so he keeps the jersey argument”. If that is your approach then it feels like you are just waiting for the first slip up from McLaughlin before you say that he should be dropped. If you genuinely think that McLaughlin is a better keeper than McGregor then absolutely it is entirely logical you would say that McLaughlin should be the starting keeper. But if, fundamentally, you think McGregor is the better keeper (and he is fully fit) then I think it logically follows that you have to say that he should be the starting keeper.
For me, my gut feel is that McGregor is likely the better keeper. I think that is what the careers to date of McGregor and McLaughlin would suggest. Now that might change at some point, indeed maybe it already has - maybe the coaching staff do think that McGregor has “lost a step” (or whatever the equivalent is for a goalie). But I haven’t heard anyone suggest that. If there was a really big game tomorrow - say an Old Firm game - I would be picking McGregor.
There are plenty of good players who don’t do anything wrong over several games but still find themselves dropped. Indeed you could say that someone like Edmundson was one of our best performers in pre season and didn’t do anything wrong. Yet he found himself dropped in favour of Balogun come the start of the season and is now 4th choice.
For me, my gut feel is that McGregor is likely the better keeper. I think that is what the careers to date of McGregor and McLaughlin would suggest. Now that might change at some point, indeed maybe it already has - maybe the coaching staff do think that McGregor has “lost a step” (or whatever the equivalent is for a goalie). But I haven’t heard anyone suggest that. If there was a really big game tomorrow - say an Old Firm game - I would be picking McGregor.
There are plenty of good players who don’t do anything wrong over several games but still find themselves dropped. Indeed you could say that someone like Edmundson was one of our best performers in pre season and didn’t do anything wrong. Yet he found himself dropped in favour of Balogun come the start of the season and is now 4th choice.
thomsonstackle
Well-Known Member
You seriously aren’t comparing our situation to that of Alisson and Adrian?No problem:
Alisson Becker praises Adrian as he closes in on his first team return
Who will Jurgen Klopp pick at the weekend?
All this sentiment nonsense is just that.
No one is saying JM is not a good player. No one is saying he has not done the little he has had to do well. No is saying there aren’t things he appears to do better than AM. E.g. playing the ball with his feet.
People talk about Gerrard having his favourites, undroppables e.g. Goldson And they said the same about Warburton, Murty, Coisty, Walter, Eck etc.
This concept of favourites tends to be even stronger when it comes to a managers keeper. I still think AM holds this position in Gerards eyes. I could be wrong. Ignoring AM and JM for the moment, generally there has to be a massive swing in fortunes, in loss of form and outstanding performances between #1 and back up for this position to change. I don’t believe we’re there yet.
Proof will be in the pudding, but I think it won’t be long before SG demonstrates who is no. 1 is.
One is a world-class keeper who starts for Brazil, and the other is an ex-west ham back up who was signed by the club as a precaution due to their lack of depth in the goalkeeping department.
Our clean sheet record with McLaughlin has been top notch so far, Liverpool’s with Adrian last season was the complete opposite.
BigSteve
Well-Known Member
Who was McLaughlin before a couple of clean sheets?
I was asked to provide an example of a number. 1 regaining his spot after being injured when his back up had played well. That is an example of a number 1 regaining his place after injury when his back up has played well.
thomsonstackle
Well-Known Member
Adrian never played well though
He’s the prime reason they were knocked out the CL for f**k sake haha
BlueSevenTwo
Well-Known Member
This would seem the sensible answer for just now.
BigSteve
Well-Known Member
At the start of the season which was the specific example I provides. For %^*& sake ha ha.Adrian never played well though
You aren’t even reading and computing the info provided because you’ve already arrived at your conclusion.
thomsonstackle
Well-Known Member
My conclusion is that Adrian never played well when Alisson was our injured. He made countless mistakes, including gifting a goal to Danny Ings in his first PL start for Liverpool when he had all the time in the world to pass the ball to either centre back.
McLaughlin doesn’t deserve to drop the jersey because he’s keeping clean sheets, and his build up play is much better than McGregor’s, which for the past two seasons has mostly been a long kick to Tav on the right wing.
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Burton blue
Well-Known Member
The speed of JM’s distribution has altered the dynamics of the back four
Teuchterblue
Well-Known Member
We haven't seen enough of McLaughlin under sustained pressure to make a judgement.
clash city rocker
Well-Known Member
Been impressed by McLaughlin so far, but until he makes a couple of match winning saves, in big game, McGregor is still number 1, for me.
You wouldn't drop J McL at this stage.
captcaveman
Well-Known Member
when we play the tramps I would rather see Allan McGregor in goal.
BigSteve
Well-Known Member
B. I. N. G. O.
What strengths did Adrian demonstrate that Allison lacks? Allison was bought for about £70m and is a genuinely world class goalkeeperNo problem:
Alisson Becker praises Adrian as he closes in on his first team return
Who will Jurgen Klopp pick at the weekend?
All this sentiment nonsense is just that.
No one is saying JM is not a good player. No one is saying he has not done the little he has had to do well. No is saying there aren’t things he appears to do better than AM. E.g. playing the ball with his feet.
People talk about Gerrard having his favourites, undroppables e.g. Goldson And they said the same about Warburton, Murty, Coisty, Walter, Eck etc.
This concept of favourites tends to be even stronger when it comes to a managers keeper. I still think AM holds this position in Gerards eyes. I could be wrong. Ignoring AM and JM for the moment, generally there has to be a massive swing in fortunes, in loss of form and outstanding performances between #1 and back up for this position to change. I don’t believe we’re there yet.
Proof will be in the pudding, but I think it won’t be long before SG demonstrates who is no. 1 is.
BigSteve
Well-Known Member
I was asked to post an example of a number 1 regaining his spot after returning from injury when his understudy was said to have played well. I did that.What strengths did Adrian demonstrate that Allison lacks? Allison was bought for about £70m and is a genuinely world class goalkeeper
Much like McGregor’s career and performances have been far better tHan McLaughlin’s, Alison > Adrian.
If people want to get carried away with 6 saves in 4 matches, only 1 of which doesn’t fall under “should have saved that” and having decent passing, knock yourselves out.
I made my argument. I was challenged to provide an example. I did that. The goalposts were then moved.
Proof will be in the pudding.
Yes, you did provide a loose example of what you thought I asked for. But considering the fee paid for Allison and the fact that Adrian was an older understudy who has absolutely no chance of taking Allison’s place in the team in the long term the comparison makes no sense. At no point during his spot in the team did he display any strengths that Allison lacked either.
You can dismiss the praise for him being about being a bit good at passing if you want but I guarantee Gerrard is impressed with his composure and distribution. Let’s not forget how reluctant McGregor is to come and claim crosses, McLaughlin’s command of his box is on a different level.
tommyboozo
Well-Known Member
I would say the jersey belongs to McLaughlin just now
BigSteve
Well-Known Member
“Attitudes may need to change further, and the circumstances will need to be right, but we could soon reach the point where the concept of a No. 1 goalkeeper, like 1-11 shirt numbers, is a thing of the past.”
I don’t think we’re there yet.
bleacherreport.com
I don’t think we’re there yet.
Why the Idea of the No. 1 Goalkeeper Could Soon Be a Thing of the Past
It was one of the subplots of the summer, a selection dilemma that many had been speculating about for months...
bleacherreport.com
BigSteve
Well-Known Member
Riccles
Well-Known Member
Here's your choice:
Stick with the man who has yet to concede a goal and has the defence playing as a solid confident unit
or
Replace him with an over-the-hill, injury prone keeper who has his feet nailed to the goal line, and who's only creative flair is to punt goal kicks into touch. He's good at reflex saves, but.
Stick with the man who has yet to concede a goal and has the defence playing as a solid confident unit
or
Replace him with an over-the-hill, injury prone keeper who has his feet nailed to the goal line, and who's only creative flair is to punt goal kicks into touch. He's good at reflex saves, but.
sirstevefleming
Well-Known Member
If we get into group stages of EL - no reason for these 2 not to rotate. Same with quite a few others on the team esp if we have long trips
Southpaws
Well-Known Member
Gradually Rangers are beginning to look like the Rangers through the ages, dominating games to the extent that our goalkeepers most important quality is concentration and the ability to pull off one or two isolated saves over 90 minutes.
To that end whilst acknowledging shagger as a top quality shot stopper who has saved our bacon on innumerable occasions, I think the current incumbent of the GK jersey is better suited to our current style of football.
He completely dominates his area, moves the ball accurately and with speed, whether from hands or with feet. at 6’ 3” he is hugely confident and competent under the high ball. His concentration levels and reflexes are absolutely of the highest order.
As others have observed he has not had to contend with the high pressure environments in which shagger has thrived, which I am sure is not lost on the manager. But I think technically McLaughlin is over all a more complete goalkeeper, which is where my only doubts about him reside...How has he managed to have such a modest career thus far, given his obvious talent?
It will be interesting to see whether the manager reverts to his tried and tested goalkeeper as the high pressure games come thick and fast. Shagger has earned the managers trust and to that end if he is restored as number one, I will not be disappointed as he has rarely let us down.
My preference would be to stick with McLaughlin until he gives the manager reason to change things.
To that end whilst acknowledging shagger as a top quality shot stopper who has saved our bacon on innumerable occasions, I think the current incumbent of the GK jersey is better suited to our current style of football.
He completely dominates his area, moves the ball accurately and with speed, whether from hands or with feet. at 6’ 3” he is hugely confident and competent under the high ball. His concentration levels and reflexes are absolutely of the highest order.
As others have observed he has not had to contend with the high pressure environments in which shagger has thrived, which I am sure is not lost on the manager. But I think technically McLaughlin is over all a more complete goalkeeper, which is where my only doubts about him reside...How has he managed to have such a modest career thus far, given his obvious talent?
It will be interesting to see whether the manager reverts to his tried and tested goalkeeper as the high pressure games come thick and fast. Shagger has earned the managers trust and to that end if he is restored as number one, I will not be disappointed as he has rarely let us down.
My preference would be to stick with McLaughlin until he gives the manager reason to change things.
BigSteve
Well-Known Member
Fair analysis.
Done? You’ve been ignoring most of my points to suit your own agenda anywayAh, you’re that guy huh.
Understood. I’m done with you.
The Barcelona Bear
Well-Known Member
At last we have some real competition for goalkeeper, which is a good position to be in. McLaughlin has done nothing wrong and looks like a fantastic signing. His introduction to the team has coincided with our defence getting it's act together. With Goldson now looking solid and good choices for his defensive partner, that whole area of our team is beginning to look the part. After having said all of that, if we were playing them tomorrow, I would pick McGregor.
Buzz Killington
Active Member
Anybody wanting to make changes to anywhere in the backline the now are off there head, we're not conceding and don't look like conceding.
Mclaughlin commands his box so much better, noticed how comfortable he is coming off his line and collecting cross balls, mcgregor is welded to his line at times.
McGregor is still a great goalie but he'll need to be patient like anybody else in any other position, he's not got a god given right to the jersey and atm the backline are looking superb
Mclaughlin commands his box so much better, noticed how comfortable he is coming off his line and collecting cross balls, mcgregor is welded to his line at times.
McGregor is still a great goalie but he'll need to be patient like anybody else in any other position, he's not got a god given right to the jersey and atm the backline are looking superb
