British Super League being Planned in Secret with Celtic and Rangers Invited

NDC bear forever said:
I’m not for both but I do think there’s a difference in them
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There are slight differences but it's semantics really. The principles are pretty much the same. The reason we want to go to the EPL, British or Atlantic League because it will benefit us economically and allow us to play against the best possible standard of opposition every week. Same as the ESL clubs, who want to play the best every week and maximise their revenues.
 
Drumchapel-Bear said:
There are slight differences but it's semantics really. The principles are pretty much the same. The reason we want to go to the EPL, British or Atlantic League because it will benefit us economically and allow us to play against the best possible standard of opposition every week. Same as the ESL clubs, who want to play the best every week and maximise their revenues.
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Slight difference being these clubs already have all the advantages and £. We like Ajax, Anderlecht,Feyenoord etc etc are big clubs with historical European value chained to leagues watching clubs smaller than us get more £ and power.
The chance of winning the CL for any team outwith big 4 leagues are practically non excistent now. Europa is starting to go that way as well. From that respect it's far more understandable and logical clubs like ourselves are looking to get a solution. The clubs that tried for ESL already have all the advantages and UEFA bending over backwards to give them more.
 
55 and counting said:
Slight difference being these clubs already have all the advantages and £. We like Ajax, Anderlecht,Feyenoord etc etc are big clubs with historical European value chained to leagues watching clubs smaller than us get more £ and power.
The chance of winning the CL for any team outwith big 4 leagues are practically non excistent now. Europa is starting to go that way as well. From that respect it's far more understandable and logical clubs like ourselves are looking to get a solution. The clubs that tried for ESL already have all the advantages and UEFA bending over backwards to give them more.
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Yeah I get that. The ESL clubs though are looking at the wider world outside of the Uefa Bubble and realising that they could actually make far more money by being outside of Uefa Competition and controlling their own revenue streams. In essence, they are greedy b*stards but I guess you could say we are the same for wanting down to England for a share of the pie and not giving a f*ck about the clubs we are leaving behind up here.
 
Drumchapel-Bear said:
Yeah I get that. The ESL clubs though are looking at the wider world outside of the Uefa Bubble and realising that they could actually make far more money by being outside of Uefa Competition and controlling their own revenue streams. In essence, they are greedy b*stards but I guess you could say we are the same for wanting down to England for a share of the pie and not giving a f*ck about the clubs we are leaving behind up here.
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Clubs up here made it pretty clear we weren't needed. So they should all be fine with it.
 
Drumchapel-Bear said:
There are slight differences but it's semantics really. The principles are pretty much the same. The reason we want to go to the EPL, British or Atlantic League because it will benefit us economically and allow us to play against the best possible standard of opposition every week. Same as the ESL clubs, who want to play the best every week and maximise their revenues.
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This idea that trying to benefit your club is somehow just as bad as trying to benefit your club by excluding all others just makes zero sense.

If Rangers wanted to join the English leagues, leaving Scottish football behind with no chance of ever joining themselves, separating them forever and closing the door then you would have a point and a pretty good one. people are, on the whole, saying they would want a British league, with a pyramid that allows all British clubs to play at the top level. That is not even similar to a closed shot ESL and trying to say it is hypocritical to want one and not the other just makes no sense. It is not hypocritical to want the club to be playing at the highest level possible.
 
Northampton_Loyalist said:
This idea that trying to benefit your club is somehow just as bad as trying to benefit your club by excluding all others just makes zero sense.

If Rangers wanted to join the English leagues, leaving Scottish football behind with no chance of ever joining themselves, separating them forever and closing the door then you would have a point and a pretty good one. people are, on the whole, saying they would want a British league, with a pyramid that allows all British clubs to play at the top level. That is not even similar to a closed shot ESL and trying to say it is hypocritical to want one and not the other just makes no sense. It is not hypocritical to want the club to be playing at the highest level possible.
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The ESL were allowing entry to 5 teams every season. It wasn't a closed shop. How the promotion / relegation etc would work still needed explained but we only seen a high level overview of the proposals.

I'm for the ESL and also for a revamped EPL or British League with Rangers involved. The Super Clubs have outgrown the game, I don't have an issue with that. Let them go, and leave the rest of us to get on with it after football has reset and undone the last 20 years of issues the Sky TV money has caused and create a fairer distribution of wealth within the game.
 
itsoorbilly said:
The Sun and The Mail !!!!! Two Tory rags reporting propaganda and people click on it !FFS
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But if Wee Nicola says in tomorrow’s National that she has no recollection of any such meeting, we just have to accept it, like a plague of zombies.
 
Drumchapel-Bear said:
The ESL were allowing entry to 5 teams every season. It wasn't a closed shop. How the promotion / relegation etc would work still needed explained but we only seen a high level overview of the proposals.

I'm for the ESL and also for a revamped EPL or British League with Rangers involved. The Super Clubs have outgrown the game, I don't have an issue with that. Let them go, and leave the rest of us to get on with it after football has reset and undone the last 20 years of issues the Sky TV money has caused and create a fairer distribution of wealth within the game.
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There was no sporting route to getting in. They could invite 5 clubs, at their discretion, ignoring sporting merit entirely. The Relegation etc was explained, you just missed it; The original 15 could not, ever, be relegated and they could invite who they wanted, when they wanted, to play in their league on a season by season basis. If one of the 5 won their league, they could be kicked out anyway.


Now, please try and explain to me how that bears any relation to the English and Scottish leagues being directly merged and a traditional pyramid being put in place? If you can, I will take it at face value, but if not, you need to stop this narrative of people being hypocrites for wanting one but not the other because they are patently obviously not the same thing at all.


Edit to add, I agree with the last part and kind of hoped the ESL went ahead and the EPL kicked the 6 out.
 
Northampton_Loyalist said:
There was no sporting route to getting in. They could invite 5 clubs, at their discretion, ignoring sporting merit entirely. The Relegation etc was explained, you just missed it; The original 15 could not, ever, be relegated and they could invite who they wanted, when they wanted, to play in their league on a season by season basis. If one of the 5 won their league, they could be kicked out anyway.


Now, please try and explain to me how that bears any relation to the English and Scottish leagues being directly merged and a traditional pyramid being put in place? If you can, I will take it at face value, but if not, you need to stop this narrative of people being hypocrites for wanting one but not the other because they are patently obviously not the same thing at all.


Edit to add, I agree with the last part and kind of hoped the ESL went ahead and the EPL kicked the 6 out.
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The Uefa Champions League revamp also allows the Uefa the ability to invite teams they want into the competition who haven't gained entry via sporting merit.....

The fact the 15 member clubs could never be relegated is of course a shambles, I agree with you there. It's their own franchise though, like the NBA. Their baw, their rules.

I have no arguments around both being the same with regards to a revamped EPL or British League having an actual pyramid in place which can see any team promoted / relegated, although how would it be fair if Rangers were just parachuted into the top league? Surely if we are sticking to our principles here, we would demand to start at the very bottom of the pyramid and work our way up through Sporting Merit? The reality is we would all be jumping for joy if we were playing in the EPL next season or the season after, football fans are hypocrites.

We also want to leave Scottish Football primarily for economic reasons and to test ourselves against the best possible oppostion every week (the same as the ESL clubs want to do. They just want to choose who they play against).

So although I agree there are differences, for me, it's slight differences and the fundamental principles are pretty much the same (economic reasons and wanting to test yourself against the best without regard for what is being left behind).
 
Drumchapel-Bear said:
The Uefa Champions League revamp also allows the Uefa the ability to invite teams they want into the competition who haven't gained entry via sporting merit.....

The fact the 15 member clubs could never be relegated is of course a shambles, I agree with you there. It's their own franchise though, like the NBA. Their baw, their rules.

I have no arguments around both being the same with regards to a revamped EPL or British League having an actual pyramid in place which can see any team promoted / relegated, although how would it be fair if Rangers were just parachuted into the top league? Surely if we are sticking to our principles here, we would demand to start at the very bottom of the pyramid and work our way up through Sporting Merit? The reality is we would all be jumping for joy if we were playing in the EPL next season or the season after.

We also want to leave Scottish Football primarily for economic reasons and to test ourselves against the best possible oppostion every week (the same as the ESL clubs want to do. They just want to choose who they play against).

So although I agree there are differences, for me, it's slight differences and the fundamental principles are pretty much the same (economic reasons and wanting to test yourself against the best without regard for what is being left behind).
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'The Uefa Champions League revamp also allows the Uefa the ability to invite teams they want into the competition who haven't gained entry via sporting merit.....'

Firstly, no, it doesn't, it uses historical sporting merit (co-efficient is the definition of sporting merit over time) to allow them to wildcard teams into their competition. Secondly, in what way would that justify the ESL doing the same even if it did?


'I have no arguments around both being the same with regards to a revamped EPL or British League having an actual pyramid in place which can see any team promoted / relegated, although how would it be fair if Rangers were just parachuted into the top league? Surely if we are sticking to our principles here, we would demand to start at the very bottom of the pyramid and work our way up through Sporting Merit? The reality is we would all be jumping for joy if we were playing in the EPL next season or the season after.'

The leagues would be joining together...Why would we have to start at the bottom of any venture and the English teams start at the top? 'Sporting merit' would be the top sides from each league playing off to determine starting spot, not the fucking English just deciding we would start at the bottom of the new JOINT VENTURE :D

'So although I agree there are differences, for me, it's slight differences and the fundamental principles are pretty much the same (economic reasons and wanting to test yourself against the best without regard for what is being left behind).'

There are huge, gaping caverns of difference.
 
Northampton_Loyalist said:
Firstly, no, it doesn't, it uses historical sporting merit (co-efficient is the definition of sporting merit over time) to allow them to wildcard teams into their competition. Secondly, in what way would that justify the ESL doing the same even if it did?




The leagues would be joining together...Why would we have to start at the bottom of any venture and the English teams start at the top? 'Sporting merit' would be the top sides from each league playing off to determine starting spot, not the fucking English just deciding we would start at the bottom of the new JOINT VENTURE :D



There are huge, gaping caverns of difference.
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1) How well you've done in previous seasons should have no bearing on qualifying for a competition in the new season. Your co-efficient is irrelevant, unless you actually qualify for the tournament itself (via sporting merit).

2) Who said the leagues would be joining together? The talk is a revamped EPL rather than a British League. If the revamped EPL was adding 6 teams, then how would Rangers and Celtic deserve to be put in ahead of the teams sitting 5th and 6th in The Championship?

3) In your opinion.

We will need to agree to disagree here as I doubt we will find common ground on this. I like a lot of your posts to be fair mate but it would be f*cking boring if we all agreed on everything! :)
 
Drumchapel-Bear said:
1) How well you've done in previous seasons should have no bearing on qualifying for a competition in the new season. Your co-efficient is irrelevant, unless you actually qualify for the tournament itself (via sporting merit).

2) Who said the leagues would be joining together? The talk is a revamped EPL rather than a British League. If the revamped EPL was adding 6 teams, then how would Rangers and Celtic deserve to be put in ahead of the teams sitting 5th and 6th in The Championship?

3) In your opinion.

We will need to agree to disagree here as I doubt we will find common ground on this. I like a lot of your posts to be fair mate but it would be f*cking boring if we all agreed on everything! :)
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1, Ok, I can jam with that. Now point out how the CL doing that means the ESL doing something worse is somehow mitigated? I have not seen a single person say the CL idea is a good one...They can both be wrong.

2, The discussion we are having is literally one about a British super league. It is in the title. Seeing as a British Super League does not currently exist, it would need to be created. On top of that, the people talking about it are ALL saying they would want a British League with a pyramid system.

3, No, in actual fact.

I can also jam with that, kind of circular anyway! Hard not to like me, I know :D
 
Drumchapel-Bear said:
There are slight differences but it's semantics really. The principles are pretty much the same. The reason we want to go to the EPL, British or Atlantic League because it will benefit us economically and allow us to play against the best possible standard of opposition every week. Same as the ESL clubs, who want to play the best every week and maximise their revenues.
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I see where you’re getting at, but this would have an independent (from the clubs) governing body (the Premier League or BSL executives) unlike the SuperLeague where it was gonna be governed by leaders of the clubs in it, it also appears to be that teams can be relegated in this, whereas 15 of the ESL sides - the founders - couldn’t. Very crucial changes. The fundamentals of more money are the same but I think it’s more than little things that are just different. I’ve said it before, but I’m not for this.
 
the main beneficiaries of a pyramid whereby scottish teams could qualify into a british league would probably be the other scottish teams, compare the size and budgets of the Scottish City Teams (Hearts, Hibs, Aberdeen, Dundee Utd) to their equivalents in the english leagues ( Southampton, Wolves, Brighton, Burnley) and you can see the massive gulf in finances between teams of similar size and fanbase.
 
tomvallance1983 said:
I think a British cup with the diddy teams from all countries included would be good in place of the league cup.

A good money spinner, someone like St Mirren drawing Man U. Chelsea away to Brechin etc
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Why? Man U wouldn’t be interested and would send c listers to scud them.

Without the epl finances spread around the other home nations, the latter stages of the cup would be all English teams the majority of the time.

Pointless.
 
bilkobear said:
You will probably be right.
However, this happening would kill the SNP for once and all.
I am serious, this would strengthen the Union
I have always been amazed at how stupid politicians seem unaware of this as they worry about the survival of the Union.

No Filth fan or family member would be interested in putting their hatred of the British State above the opportunities accredited to Filth FC by being involved in this league and the profile it would offer them.
They would dump the SNP and its vehicle for hate quicker than a drunken paddy tramp scrambling for a bag of discarded chips.

Further with the prospect of a tier system that offers the likes of Hearts Hibs and Aberdeen the same opportunity then the deal of Union will be sealed.

Think I am wrong, think again.
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Spot on. Integration of football will bring us closer. Unfortunately they may have left it too late.
 
I haven't read the whole thread as I was scunnered with the ESL crap so, This may already have been mooted. I feel that the whole British League format would have to be scrapped as the bottom 3 leagues in England, the NI league , Welsh league and the bottom 3 Scottish leagues would have to be amalgamated to give every team a chance to progress. 8 leagues into 4 which would give us Premier League ,Championship league and 4 other lesser leagues.

A lot of the wee clubs would go to the wall and either give up or amalgamate with another team. The two Dundee for example, Thistle and Clyde. Celtic and Cliftonville. The list goes on and only until everyone is satisfied that this is a truly British League.

But, to paraphrase Abe Lincoln, "you can satisfy all of the people some of the time..."
 
Northhiglander said:
Income rises 10 fold is only any use if costs don’t increase 10 fold. Look at Everton what they have spent and they are nowhere near breaking into too 6.

Woukd be a big ask for us to achieve that. We could be average fish in a huge pond for a very long time.

also we are Scottish. Banter with mates is all about games. Rivalry with sheep fans couple of Dundee Utd fans, county fans etc. That is a big bit of football.

Also European nights would not happen. Not for me.
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Everton are 6pts off Chelsea (3rd) with a game in hand
 
Northampton_Loyalist said:
'The Uefa Champions League revamp also allows the Uefa the ability to invite teams they want into the competition who haven't gained entry via sporting merit.....'

Firstly, no, it doesn't, it uses historical sporting merit (co-efficient is the definition of sporting merit over time) to allow them to wildcard teams into their competition. Secondly, in what way would that justify the ESL doing the same even if it did?


'I have no arguments around both being the same with regards to a revamped EPL or British League having an actual pyramid in place which can see any team promoted / relegated, although how would it be fair if Rangers were just parachuted into the top league? Surely if we are sticking to our principles here, we would demand to start at the very bottom of the pyramid and work our way up through Sporting Merit? The reality is we would all be jumping for joy if we were playing in the EPL next season or the season after.'

The leagues would be joining together...Why would we have to start at the bottom of any venture and the English teams start at the top? 'Sporting merit' would be the top sides from each league playing off to determine starting spot, not the fucking English just deciding we would start at the bottom of the new JOINT VENTURE :D

'So although I agree there are differences, for me, it's slight differences and the fundamental principles are pretty much the same (economic reasons and wanting to test yourself against the best without regard for what is being left behind).'

There are huge, gaping caverns of difference.
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If a new British league was created, renamed say, the British Super League, then in its creation, allowing Scotland's top two clubs instant entry alongside the top clubs in England, numbers to be decided, then this eliminates any requirement for negotiating lower divisions, as we would be joining an entirely new enterprise.
One could argue.
 
flootbon said:
It's probably been mentioned on this thread.

It won't happen because of Celtic.

Celtic fans going to England every fortnight, and belting out IRA and anti-British songs would cause endless trouble.

David Cameron alluded to the trouble years ago, but never mentioned it's cause.

Tims are toxic.
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100% correct, but could you imagine a Celtic away match over Remembrance weekend? no poppies on shirts, and fans booing through the silence. What a wake up call for English people who say Celtic are their Scottish team. It would be all over the news etc and the mhedia up here would be helpless to stop it.
 
Valley Bluenose said:
It might be getting discussed on the periphery but the idea of it coming about is pie in the sky.
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Yeah, it appears that some review within the PL have suggested various things including us and the scumbags joining. Would love to see a British League structure, but can't see it. Even if it did, I think it's more likely we would be given a slot in an BPL2 with other Championship sides rather than being given a slot in an 18 team BPL.
 
Are the people insisting we should only go if the rest of Scottish football are invited saying that because they were raging at a closed shop super league? I couldn’t give a shit about any other Scottish club and I’m a football fan so can be a hypocrite if it suits my club. I’d happily bolt the door behind us and leave every Scottish diddy stamping their feet outside.
 
For what it’s worth, I have always liked the idea of this from a perspective of the excitement, glamour and money. Generally speaking I think that big clubs shouldn’t screw over small ones to get what they want, but in our case, I would actually love for the other clubs in Scotland to burn to the ground (financially speaking). Since 2012, I have not and do not feel part of Scottish football, and if we never had to see, hear about or play Heart, Hibs, Motherwell, Aberdeen, Kilmarnock or anyone else again, I wouldn’t miss them for a moment. Expediting their demise actually makes this idea more attractive to me.
 
Any EPL reconstruction with us invited would have to be under FA auspices, if the SFA were involved it would be just the same old corruption status quo.
 
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