Dave King and the TAB ruling

boracay ranger said:
DK can almost certainly influence what NOAL invests in but he cannot directly control the trust as it has independent directors.
Independent directors have a duty to all beneficiaries and are at risk of being sued if they use the funds improperly.
A huge tax payment could be crystallised if funds from the trust is moved into escrow so I would imagine independent directors would not risk doing this.
I have offshore trusts myself and know this is a strong possibility.
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This is an excellent post.

Dave King is a beneficiary of the trust, not the trustee. Depending on the type of trust it may well be that it is at the discretion of the trustee to release the trust income and capital. The trustee has a fiduciary duty to do this wisely and independently of Dave King. The interests of any other beneficiaries must be taken into account.
 
Fondablondes said:
The part in bold concerns me a bit and could be damaging to King's case. I wonder how they obtained these emails?
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Shongo said:
They really should have used 'burners' or other means than traceable emails when arranging this. That said I allude to an above poster as to how these emails were recovered?

In any case I don't see how he gets out of this though I am no law expert.

What really irks me is that Somers being the one to report this gets a last laugh yet the spivs that sat in front of me including he at those AGM's with the latter being the famous 'tent' occasion have not been taken to task in a courtroom, not one!
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The takeover panel covered this in their report.

As noted earlier, Mr King produced no documents, claiming that he had deleted his emails pertaining to the transactions in issue and that his IT people could not retrieve them. The Executive was, accordingly, obliged to try to assemble a document trail by obtaining emails from other sources including, for example, Cantor Fitzgerald.
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Cantor Fitzgerald, who were Kings stockbroker, as an FCA regulated entity would have handed over everything they had without quibble*. George Taylor also works for Morgan Stanley who are also FCA regulated in the UK, and would comply with the FCA. Latham, Parks et al UK based stockbrokers would have all complied as well.
 
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Mufasa said:
George Taylor has the Asian investor contacts. There are no plans for DK to sell his to anyone, I do wish bears would stop listening to the mhedia, tarries on social mhedia and malcontents in our support. If Asian investors come in it will be at the next share issue so the money goes into the club not the spivs and penny shareholders.
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Yeah that's what I meant, mate. Letham brought Taylor to the table so it's the same circle of contacts.

A share issue can't be a main priority for the board currently due to the lack of desire to get the Res passed at the last two AGM's, plus we are unable to have one just now due to King's issues in court.
 
Drumchapel-Bear said:
I don't think outright fan ownership is the way to go. It would be the best thing for the long term stability of the club financially but in a sporting sense we would have a ceiling, probably 2nd place in Scotland, the odd cup and venture in Europa Group Stages every now and again.

Short/Medium Term, the club needs massive investment that fans couldn't facilitate.
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Fans make the biggest investment in the club EVERY year, ST's merchandise etc etc is more than any one investor has ever put in.
 
Drumchapel-Bear said:
Yeah that's what I meant, mate. Letham brought Taylor to the table so it's the same circle of contacts.

A share issue can't be a main priority for the board currently due to the lack of desire to get the Res passed at the last two AGM's, plus we are unable to have one just now due to King's issues in court.
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Julian Woldhart surely has further intentions as well. I'm intrigued by his next move. This guy has money and is unlikley to just come in with his initial investment and do nothing else. He surely has plans for his involvement at our club.
 
MoodyBlue1872 said:
Julian Woldhart surely has further intentions as well. I'm intrigued by his next move. This guy has money and is unlikley to just come in with his initial investment and do nothing else. He surely has plans for his involvement at our club.
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I think he's one to keep an eye on for sure. King spoke in glowing terms of him after his investment during the summer.
 
Foddo Foddo said:
Honestly. a lot of people on FF think they are clever in all things to do with the running of Rangers. Frustrated wannabee lawyers and tramps getting their tuppence worth in. Proper Rangers fans quietly watch on from the sidelines putting their trust in the good people that are running our great club.
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That's worked well in the past to be fair.
 
Drumchapel-Bear said:
Yeah that's what I meant, mate. Letham brought Taylor to the table so it's the same circle of contacts.

A share issue can't be a main priority for the board currently due to the lack of desire to get the Res passed at the last two AGM's, plus we are unable to have one just now due to King's issues in court.
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There needs to be a new share issue, the loans are currently to be repaid with equity not cash.
 
Mufasa said:
There needs to be a new share issue, the loans are currently to be repaid with equity not cash.
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A share issue isn't likely to create much capital for the club though given the amount we owe shareholders for loans.

It would be really interesting to know what the boards medium/long term plan is for us.
 
Mufasa said:
14k bears are going to Edinburgh and the price of a ticket is over half the yearly minimum contribution to Club1872 and will no doubt spend the same getting there and other incidentals. If Club1872 had 14k members we could get closer to fan ownership much quicker. Unfortunately its not a priority for most supporters.
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As someone who is struggling financially I get that. My priority is to see my family get a decent Christmas at present.

Dave King still does not sit 100% right with me. That said he's way better than what he have had in our recent past including Murray.
 
greigmiester said:
The takeover panel covered this in their report.



Cantor Fitzgerald, who were Kings stockbroker, as an FCA regulated entity would have handed over everything they had without quibble*. George Taylor also works for Morgan Stanley who are also FCA regulated in the UK, and would comply with the FCA. Latham, Parks et al UK based stockbrokers would have all complied as well.
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Thanks mate, this explains it.
 
Craig said:
If he had, then this shitfest would never be where it is. He would have complied, share offer made and refused and we carry on - Kings refusal to deal with it speaks volumes.

Please document where it states he's worth 600 million? ..unless of course you mean 600 million rand which is about 30 million and locked up in his kids family trust / inheritance - the one he claimed he would spend.

So, link please to this 600 million fortune :)
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http://www.richestlifestyle.com/networth/dave-king-net-worth/
 
Craig said:
If he had, then this shitfest would never be where it is. He would have complied, share offer made and refused and we carry on - Kings refusal to deal with it speaks volumes.

Please document where it states he's worth 600 million? ..unless of course you mean 600 million rand which is about 30 million and locked up in his kids family trust / inheritance - the one he claimed he would spend.

So, link please to this 600 million fortune :)
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Crawling out the woodwork.
 
Drumchapel-Bear said:
I think he'll be off the board soon, who he sells his shares to if he does at all, is anyones guess. I'd have The Park's as big favorites but wouldn't be surprised to see Asian Investors come to the table via George Lethams and his contacts.
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What are the reasons for all these thoughts you have? Why will he be off the board soon?
For what it's worth I don't think he will be off the board anytime soon nor do I think he will sell his shares. I think this way because I ask myself simple questions Why would he do these things after being on the board for years and also being a shareholder for years? Why?
 
Foddo Foddo said:
What are the reasons for all these thoughts you have? Why will he be off the board soon?
For what it's worth I don't think he will be off the board anytime soon nor do I think he will sell his shares. I think this way because I ask myself simple questions Why would he do these things after being on the board for years and also being a shareholder for years? Why?
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Personally I think he'll be off the board by the summer - purely by his choice. I don't think his intentions were to be chairman long term. Probably still remain a shareholder, but I think he will hand over the reigns of the chairman's position in summer 2018. Again - this will be his decision.
 
Bring Back Square Posts said:
As someone who is struggling financially I get that. My priority is to see my family get a decent Christmas at present.

Dave King still does not sit 100% right with me. That said he's way better than what he have had in our recent past including Murray.
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You are always moaning on here
 
MoodyBlue1872 said:
Personally I think he'll be off the board by the summer - purely by his choice. I don't think his intentions were to be chairman long term. Probably still remain a shareholder, but I think he will hand over the reigns of the chairman's position in summer 2018. Again - this will be his decision.
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He did say last year if someone could do a better job than him he would sell to them.
 
Recoba's Miracle said:
He did say last year if someone could do a better job than him he would sell to them.
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Yes. I don't think anyone should be hugely surprised if changes are made in the summer.

IMO he was always coming in to rescue us and then get certain things settled down, like the retail stuff and other bits and pieces. A fair chunk of that is done now and that is full credit to him. I think now he would be happy to hand over the reigns to someone who can takes us on to the next level/stage.

I still say that the involvement of Julian Woldhart could be significant. Time will tell I guess.
 
Foddo Foddo said:
What are the reasons for all these thoughts you have? Why will he be off the board soon?
For what it's worth I don't think he will be off the board anytime soon nor do I think he will sell his shares. I think this way because I ask myself simple questions Why would he do these things after being on the board for years and also being a shareholder for years? Why?
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I think if he loses this case in court, he will be forced off the board if he doesn't comply with the ruling and submit an offer for all of the shares but I could be wrong.
 
MoodyBlue1872 said:
Yes. I don't think anyone should be hugely surprised if changes are made in the summer.

IMO he was always coming in to rescue us and then get certain things settled down, like the retail stuff and other bits and pieces. A fair chunk of that is done now and that is full credit to him. I think now he would be happy to hand over the reigns to someone who can takes us on to the next level/stage.

I still say that the involvement of Julian Woldhart could be significant. Time will tell I guess.
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Hopefully he takes over and pumps money in but i guess thats dreamland stuff ?
 
Genuine question - Why is it only DK who has to make the offer to the shareholders, when the TAB believes that he acted in concert with others? Why isn't Leathem, Taylor and Parks part of the action?
 
Recoba's Miracle said:
Hopefully he takes over and pumps money in but i guess thats dreamland stuff ?
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Not sure mate - but I think it's something like that which needs to happen. I wouldn't completely rule it out. The current model is not sustainable long term IMO. Changes of some description are required. Woldhart's intentions intrigue and excite me.
 
Some people on here really should remember exactly what King was involved in doing for this club only a short few years ago. From fighting the constant legal battles and Ashley threats, to forcing through situations that got rid of the bastards who only had one intention and that was to fleece you for every last penny whilst not giving a shit about the club and what it means.

One of the most important steps took place just recently when he achieved the impossible mission of tearing up a 7 year shitty retail deal.
 
Scrubs UK said:
Some people on here really should remember exactly what King was involved in doing for this club only a short few years ago. From fighting the constant legal battles and Ashley threats, to forcing through situations that got rid of the bastards who only had one intention and that was to fleece you for every last penny whilst not giving a shit about the club and what it means.

One of the most important steps took place just recently when he achieved the impossible mission of tearing up a 7 year shitty retail deal.
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King has his faults like we all do, but tell me one man that's done more for the club of the park? The grief he takes from some of our fans is unbelievable. Not aimed at you mate, I agree 100% with your post.
 
Explanation for a thicko please. Is DK's argument:

1. He didn't but club shares as an individual at any stage, it was all NOAL
2. He was never a 'con cert party' just an individual with same aims as others but in partnership with them
3. No-one wants their shares sold at 20p
 
Why would King put all the time effort and money that he has into Rangers then just sit on the sidelines?

Over the years he has had his fingers burnt, he has lost millions with his involvement with Rangers. Yet he still sunk his time and cash into saving us from the spivs. He could quite easily said 'f*ck that' and enjoyed his life spending his money.

One thing you have to undertand about Dave King - he is a Rangers fan. A dyed in the wool, blue nose Rangers fan like us. He will do nothing that will harm the club, he has the welfare of Rangers in his heart.

The scum fans hate him with a passion, the reason for that is they know who and what he is.
 
AnglianBear said:
Not at all mart, I think you have misunderstood me. I was referring to the sources of your information because I assumed them to be the same as what we were all reading - STV Grant or the BBC - those with a negative bias towards all things Rangers.
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....... and, if they can get at King in the same breathe, it's a lottery win for these scumbags.
Meanwhile, in some dark corner, there's a guy who has a shareholding in a bank linked with all sorts of undesirable activities.
Is there a word said?
Story on one day then nothing, or close to nothing thereafter.
 
Scooby said:
Why would King put all the time effort and money that he has into Rangers then just sit on the sidelines?

Over the years he has had his fingers burnt, he has lost millions with his involvement with Rangers. Yet he still sunk his time and cash into saving us from the spivs. He could quite easily said 'f*ck that' and enjoyed his life spending his money.

One thing you have to undertand about Dave King - he is a Rangers fan. A dyed in the wool, blue nose Rangers fan like us. He will do nothing that will harm the club, he has the welfare of Rangers in his heart.

The scum fans hate him with a passion, the reason for that is they know who and what he is.
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I think Dave King would be quite happy to sit on the sidelines - and that it not a criticisim, far from it.

I think his life in SA and his family may be part of this thinking. I also think he'll have thought- is this as far as I can take Rangers ? Can I take them any further ? If his answer is no, due to finances then it would make perfect sense that he would seek out a successor.

Dave King only has good intentions for Rangers - and if that means him stepping aside to let another party take us on to the next level then so be it. But we can be assured that he will leave us in good hands whenever that happens, so I'm quite relaxed either way.
 
Hobjo said:
That’s way OTT. If he’s gone to edge of business law to wrestle control of the club away from asset strippers who were dancing on the same line (and going way over it in the eyes of any reasonable observer) then he’ll have my eternal thanks.

Hihih

The original complaint was from Somers. We have seen how company law in this country has basically allowed our club to be pillaged and the culprits walk away Scot free.

And yet the sour taste in YOUR mouth is about someone potentially bending that obscure law so he can save the club and plow his money into it?? A guy who already lost £20m doing the same?

Havers man, havers
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Can I like this twice or more?
This transparency line is getting used to often against King.
It's a joke.
There simply has to be a level of secrecy in practice.
 
Cumbernauld gers said:
King has his faults like we all do, but tell me one man that's done more for the club of the park? The grief he takes from some of our fans is unbelievable. Not aimed at you mate, I agree 100% with your post.
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I wish everyone would just take 5 or 10 minutes to have a wee think to themselves.
Imagine the mess we would be in and still being raped and robbed by the spivs.
We are also rid of the Fat Ashley.
 
Scooby said:
Why would King put all the time effort and money that he has into Rangers then just sit on the sidelines?

Over the years he has had his fingers burnt, he has lost millions with his involvement with Rangers. Yet he still sunk his time and cash into saving us from the spivs. He could quite easily said 'f*ck that' and enjoyed his life spending his money.

One thing you have to undertand about Dave King - he is a Rangers fan. A dyed in the wool, blue nose Rangers fan like us. He will do nothing that will harm the club, he has the welfare of Rangers in his heart.

The scum fans hate him with a passion, the reason for that is they know who and what he is.
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Well said.

Despite setbacks DK has been calculated in every move he's made.

There isn't need for bed wetting about this. I am sure if he had to realise the value of some of his assets or net worth in order to make this offer, he could. Even if he offers it, there's no certainty that all of the shareholders would accept so it would not cost the full 11 - 12m.

Let's hope for a positive outcome to this.
 
MoodyBlue1872 said:
Julian Woldhart surely has further intentions as well. I'm intrigued by his next move. This guy has money and is unlikley to just come in with his initial investment and do nothing else. He surely has plans for his involvement at our club.
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The only thing that confuses me regarding someone like this is that I know if I was going to plough serious cash into Rangers, I'd want to own 76% minimum, so that I had complete control, i.e. Enough guaranteed votes to pass any vote. Which then begs the question, who would sell. Assuming the guy is likeminded of course.
 
Mason Boyne said:
The only thing that confuses me regarding someone like this is that I know if I was going to plough serious cash into Rangers, I'd want to own 76% minimum, so that I had complete control, i.e. Enough guaranteed votes to pass any vote. Which then begs the question, who would sell. Assuming the guy is likeminded of course.
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That's true mate. At this stage we don't know what the plans are for guys like Julian Woldhart. But you can bet that King, the board and investors like Woldhart will be 100% clear in their minds what their combined future plans are. We will find out in due course but I am sure these guys already have a path for our ship to sail. Between them, their plans and intention will be clear - only when they want disclose these plans will we find out. When that is is anyone's guess, but IMO it could be as early as next summer.
 
Mufasa said:
Fans make the biggest investment in the club EVERY year, ST's merchandise etc etc is more than any one investor has ever put in.
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tazzabear said:
Very true but, we need upwards of £10m, probably closer to £20m, each year.
The fans cannot provide this.
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Put season tickets up by £100 with King and the board promising to double it. For every £100 put in, the board puts in £200.

35000 ST's x £300 = 10.5 million (gross) on top of standard ST sales.

Worst case scenario, the board matches it - that's still £5.25 million generated instantly.

It's not exactly rocket science.
 
Scooby said:
Why would King put all the time effort and money that he has into Rangers then just sit on the sidelines?

Over the years he has had his fingers burnt, he has lost millions with his involvement with Rangers. Yet he still sunk his time and cash into saving us from the spivs. He could quite easily said 'f*ck that' and enjoyed his life spending his money.

One thing you have to undertand about Dave King - he is a Rangers fan. A dyed in the wool, blue nose Rangers fan like us. He will do nothing that will harm the club, he has the welfare of Rangers in his heart.

The scum fans hate him with a passion, the reason for that is they know who and what he is.
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Hear hear mate.
 
Mason Boyne said:
The only thing that confuses me regarding someone like this is that I know if I was going to plough serious cash into Rangers, I'd want to own 76% minimum, so that I had complete control, i.e. Enough guaranteed votes to pass any vote. Which then begs the question, who would sell. Assuming the guy is likeminded of course.
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Every effort should be made to ensure no one ever holds more than 20% of our shares.
 
Craig said:
Put season tickets up by £100 with King and the board promising to double it. For every £100 put in, the board puts in £200.

35000 ST's x £300 = 10.5 million (gross) on top of standard ST sales.

Worst case scenario, the board matches it - that's still £5.25 million generated instantly.

It's not exactly rocket science.
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Very true, but probably not as easy as you suggest for the fans.
I guess most individual purchasers could and would stump up the extra but, what about the guy who has to buy over three, four in my mates case, tickets.
Maybe a compromise could be no increase for kids?
 
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