Fed up hearing how good our Academy is

If we have seasoned professionals baulking at the pressure of playing in a title race for Rangers then the impact of that, and of dealing with flakey senior players, on a youth player would be a hell of a chance to take.
 
WinkieWATP said:
At least give an example of who from the academy should come in and in place of who to back yourself up?
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Kennedy should be ahead of Ojo and Barker
Barjonas/Kelly should be ahead of King
Patterson should be ahead of Polster
Dont sign 4 centre backs and have Mayo be fourth choice.
Sure theres a guy at left back getting rave reviews and getting in Scotland squads as well. Might be Maxwell or Dickson.
 
chucknorris said:
Without seeing players being produced for the first team. All that matters is what players come through and as far as i can see no-one is close.

We had to put a right back who hadnt played for months last night at left back. Is there not a left back coming through we could have played?
Is there not a winger coming through that is better than Ojo?
Do we really need to sign 4 centre halfs in 18 months, is there nobody in the academy capable of being 4th choice at least?

I wouldnt blame the better ones for leaving. If you are Kennedy or McPake and you see Ojo playing and a 3 year deal handed to Brandon Barker blocking your 'pathway' I'd be considering my options.
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You know what, I'm tired of hearing about Ross Wilson coming in, because we're not seeing immediate direct results I don't want to hear about it, what a waste of money, I'm also throwing my toys out the pram because we dropped points last night.

These things take time, after being neglected for so long, we should absolutely not be throwing in youth at this stage.
 
chucknorris said:
Without seeing players being produced for the first team. All that matters is what players come through and as far as i can see no-one is close.

We had to put a right back who hadnt played for months last night at left back. Is there not a left back coming through we could have played?
Is there not a winger coming through that is better than Ojo?
Do we really need to sign 4 centre halfs in 18 months, is there nobody in the academy capable of being 4th choice at least?

I wouldnt blame the better ones for leaving. If you are Kennedy or McPake and you see Ojo playing and a 3 year deal handed to Brandon Barker blocking your 'pathway' I'd be considering my options.
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Sir you have won thread of the year
 
That's it we bring kids through - rush them in to the team and then they get slaughtered on here. Look at the abuse Middleton has received after a fairly successful first season when he probably featured more than what was anticipated.
 
jdm1873 said:
That's it we bring kids through - rush them in to the team and then they get slaughtered on here. Look at the abuse Middleton has received after a fairly successful first season when he probably featured more than what was anticipated.
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That's not what the op is saying.

There should be boys in and around our 1st team capable of being back up
 
Ranger1003 said:
That's not what the op is saying.

There should be boys in and around our 1st team capable of being back up
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The one we had decided to up sticks and move at the same time one of the greatest midfielders of his generation came to manage us. Could he not see a route to the first team? Was it about money? Cause he's still not really getting much game time down there. Would probably be getting decent time up here had he stayed
 
How much does the youth academy cost to run per year and is it cost effective with regards return - ie do we get first team players and sell players on from it?
 
I would expect to see next season Kelly and McCrorie ( goalkeeper ) in the first team squad. Also keep an eye out for the young right back who just came back from injury - Patterson I think.
 
chucknorris said:
I get how putting them in for a prolonged period too early can damage them, im not suggesting throwing them in as mainstays but surely there are a few that can fill in the odd game if they are as good as we are led to believe.
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One of those odd games won’t be away to the sheep.
 
chucknorris said:
Without seeing players being produced for the first team. All that matters is what players come through and as far as i can see no-one is close.

We had to put a right back who hadnt played for months last night at left back. Is there not a left back coming through we could have played?
Is there not a winger coming through that is better than Ojo?
Do we really need to sign 4 centre halfs in 18 months, is there nobody in the academy capable of being 4th choice at least?

I wouldnt blame the better ones for leaving. If you are Kennedy or McPake and you see Ojo playing and a 3 year deal handed to Brandon Barker blocking your 'pathway' I'd be considering my options.
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I agree there MUST be a better young natural left back who could do better than Flanagan in our academy, and even guys like Middleton/Hastie must be doubting their future when barker and Ojo can get in the team while they are wasting in the Hibs reserves/Rotherham bench.
 
McPake has been poor so far for Dundee. I doubt hed be doing better here.

One way of minimizing the high risk of blooding youngsters at Rangers(or elsewhere) is to farm them out to lower league teams and see which ones kick on from promising youths to promising young pros. It's a lottery which young players actually make the grade. A year developing physically, technically and mentally at, say, Backwater United is probably best for most of our youths unless they are that rarest of species - 16 or 17 year olds in a mans body.
 
There were a few academy graduates who made their debut under Caixinha including Beerman, Barjo, Aidan Wilson and Kyle Bradley, they were all 18. Bear in mind Mayo is nearly 20 this puts it into perspective. Also these players were playing in a far inferior team with the likes of Bates, Lee Hodson, Dodoo etc. Many posters have written these boys off, but how would they have been if they had been playing with better players and had the support and encouragement that the likes of Mikey Johnston has had at Celtic. I don't know. Our young boys like Patterson and Coombe-Young do have the support and encouragement and backing and time on their side so maybe we will see them in the next year or two. Shame though for the older academy boys who never did get the chance, particularly when Gerrard took over and brought in his own players, and loan players from England.
 
chucknorris said:
Weve not just got it back. Its been overhauled since Warburton was in yet weve still not got one player that can make the bench.
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FFS, a whole four years?
An eighteen year old was only fourteen when the academy was overhauled.
More than that, a sixteen year old would only have just started secondary school.
It takes a bit of time to get these programmes working.
 
Got to love FF after a poor night.

D08-CDF6-C-12-CC-4-B2-C-8-CCD-E2-D209-F68777.gif
 
I still find it mental people can continually watch the performances of Tav and think Paterson doesn’t deserve a chance because it’s too much or a risk...
 
I said in another thread that I think we'll be fairly ruthless in trimming our squad this summer, with the precise intention of giving an easier pathway for some young players.
 
I think the club's business model will mean that youth players will be more prominent from next season on.We are Haemorrhaging money still while having a pool full of non contributors.Loanees who are no better than our own youngsters and star players who will be leaving to address our losses.The situation may not suit a lot of people's agendas including our management team but it is what it is.Other managers have to play young players from their academy's why not us.
 
just the other day Hearts were slaughtered on here for throwing guys like Hickey and the young midfielder that is now out on loan.

Look at them now, bereft of all confidence, lets follow them!

Lunacy this place.

If there was a 16/17 year old in our ranks that was like Wayne Rooney when he came through then you would have a gripe, but we don't!
 
Graemeh89 said:
I agree there MUST be a better young natural left back who could do better than Flanagan in our academy, and even guys like Middleton/Hastie must be doubting their future when barker and Ojo can get in the team while they are wasting in the Hibs reserves/Rotherham bench.
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You are pretty much making his point invalid instead of supporting with this statement.

Hastie and Middleton are wasting away in the reserves for poor teams because they are not good enough to play for poor teams, but you think they should be on our bench and getting game time?
 
Mondraker said:
So being overhauled means the current academy players cant play in the first team?

Its like we cant get enough excuses out to hide the inadequacies.
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That's not what I meant.

I mean you can't go from an amateur sh.itshow to an elite player production line within a season or 2.

The stakes are high for this season. Can you imagine if we played a promising 18 year old and they fluffed a game-winning chance last night? Half of FF and the support would want them hung, drawn and quartered.

We do need to get to a point where we are bringing through more youth, no-one is denying that...but that takes time.
 
Sheamaker said:
There was an excellent point from @David Edgar the other day on Heart and Hand. You want to see what pushing through kids too early looks like look at Cochrane at Hearts.

Yes the youth levels look good and some very good potential there but it hasn't been that way for that long, patience is required its not as simple as saying throw the best LB in the youth levels in to first team for an away day at Sheep.
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Or Aaron Hickey:

"Hey son, you're thefuture of Hearts, get out there and be MOTM every week..."
 
linthousebear1981 said:
You are pretty much making his point invalid instead of supporting with this statement.

Hastie and Middleton are wasting away in the reserves for poor teams because they are not good enough to play for poor teams, but you think they should be on our bench and getting game time?
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My point is , if these young players who rangers have signed , one who actually done ok even scoring in the Europa league , can’t get near our first team , then what chance does any academy player.
 
Graemeh89 said:
My point is , if these young players who rangers have signed , one who actually done ok even scoring in the Europa league , can’t get near our first team , then what chance does any academy player.
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They'll get their chance if they are good enough. Or do you think the management are deliberately holding back players who would improve the first team?
 
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chucknorris said:
Weve not just got it back. Its been overhauled since Warburton was in yet weve still not got one player that can make the bench.
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The youth system, like all areas of the club was a complete shambles when the board took over. It has taken years to correct the damage done. Folk don’t appear to have any understanding of that. We now dominate at all age groups and dominate the Scottish National Youth Teams. It takes time for the players to get through to first team level though. At Rangers you can’t just be thrown in, you have to be ready and obviously the manager, who sees the boys every day, doesn’t feel that they necessarily are. McPake is a top talent but he’s finding it tough at Dundee. As is Middleton at Hibs. The jump to first team football is huge, not sure people understand this fully.
 
D-Von said:
I still find it mental people can continually watch the performances of Tav and think Paterson doesn’t deserve a chance because it’s too much or a risk...
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Many times you saw Paterson play? I've never seen him play so I've no idea if he's good enough.
 
chucknorris said:
Without seeing players being produced for the first team. All that matters is what players come through and as far as i can see no-one is close.

We had to put a right back who hadnt played for months last night at left back. Is there not a left back coming through we could have played?
Is there not a winger coming through that is better than Ojo?
Do we really need to sign 4 centre halfs in 18 months, is there nobody in the academy capable of being 4th choice at least?

I wouldnt blame the better ones for leaving. If you are Kennedy or McPake and you see Ojo playing and a 3 year deal handed to Brandon Barker blocking your 'pathway' I'd be considering my options.
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Aye mate we’ll throw kids in against the hammer throwers of Scottish football. That’ll work out well.
 
What 17/18 year old won't be better for a chorus of "Aww ffs!" when he fails to spray it aboot like Zidane?
 
*Gives 17/18 year old their debut and we draw*

'Pittodrie isnt the place for untested youngsters, Gerrard threw him under the bus. Flanagans a solid pro.'

Our best players got slaughtered after last night, i shudder to think what wouldve happened to the manager and the youngster if he starts them and they cost a goal.
 
DamBuster72 said:
The whole thing has been overhauled so it will take time to bear fruit but I understand your frustration.

It's all good and well winning youth trophies and leagues but the real measure of success of the academy, is how many graduates it produces for the first-team.

I'd much rather we won fk all at that level but had 1 or 2 players a season making the breakthrough to our first team squad.
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I see where you are coming from but given how tight the league is can we really put that kind of pressure on young shoulders,especially at Ibrox in a tight game,but I agree if they're good enough they're old enough. I'd rather see young Kai getting a chance before Ojo,who shouldn't even be in the eighteen.
 
No academy player is good enough to play in the first team at the moment.

We are screaming for a league cup win and title success. Right now we cannot gamble on academy players getting first team football.
 
Hopefully in the years ahead we'll see more and more talent come through the youth academy to first team.
 
chucknorris said:
Without seeing players being produced for the first team. All that matters is what players come through and as far as i can see no-one is close.

We had to put a right back who hadnt played for months last night at left back. Is there not a left back coming through we could have played?
Is there not a winger coming through that is better than Ojo?
Do we really need to sign 4 centre halfs in 18 months, is there nobody in the academy capable of being 4th choice at least?

I wouldnt blame the better ones for leaving. If you are Kennedy or McPake and you see Ojo playing and a 3 year deal handed to Brandon Barker blocking your 'pathway' I'd be considering my options.
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Consider the reaction to a draw last night and ask yourself if thats the type of environment you'd introduce a young player to. He'd be written off as a dud.
 
chucknorris said:
I get how putting them in for a prolonged period too early can damage them, im not suggesting throwing them in as mainstays but surely there are a few that can fill in the odd game if they are as good as we are led to believe.
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There are some terrific prospects around the 17/18 year old mark mate and they're doing very well against good European opposition.

However, they're still a bit off our first team, especially from a physical point of view.

Not all 16 and 17 year olds physically develop as quickly as Derek Johnstone.
 
There is a massive difference between being a stand out in youth football at 16 and capable of playing against men at 18. Might only be 2 years of development but the gulf is massive. There's a significant jump up in ability. There's a significant jump up in physicality. There's a significant jump up in mentality.

Sad fact is that despite having some talented youths, very few players have come through the ranks at either OF team in the past decade or more who have stepped up to adult football and had a career at a good professional level. The old argument of being old enough if they're good enough still holds true but there's a massive question right now as to whether or not any of them are good enough.

They might have plenty of talent but are they capable of stepping up and playing against men? I've seen a fair number of top flight youngsters play lower league football on loan and very few of them were able to make that transition from playing youth football to adult football. The thing that all of them complain about is the pace of the game and the intensity.
 
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