Gerrard linked with move for Tavernier and Goldson

wee bud's pit boots said:
Since coming back up we've won just three domestic trophies out of the twenty-two we have contested. (That's including this season's LC obviously)

One of the most miserable periods in our history.
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Its been a shocking and, quite frankly, a completely unacceptable return.

I'm actually flabbergasted at how easily and how many are accepting second best. This is not Rangers.
 
Cooper's left peg said:
Its been a shocking and, quite frankly, a completely unacceptable return.

I'm actually flabbergasted at how easily and how many are accepting second best. This is not Rangers.
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You surely see that people who happen to think that Tavernier contributes a lot for us aren't necessarily saying "aye seconds fine?"

Merely that they/we are quite happy with him playing and want to use our limited funds to improve the team in other areas as more of a priority?

Surely you see this?
 
graeme2519 said:
I don’t believe Tav will leave, he is our Captain after all, but I could see Goldson being sold, think he is at the end of his time at us now and should move back to England or head to Saudi, hopefully we can get a good amount of cash for him.
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A decent offer and the club will accept ,I am basing that on PC saying he will not let players run down their contract anymore,if he refuses an offer for Tav then next year he would be lucky to make any money for him and he would leave for nothing after that,that is all depending on some club trying to get Tav at the end of the season,I think there is something about this story with Gerard being interested because it seems to be growing legs,time will tell
 
Cooper's left peg said:
Its been a shocking and, quite frankly, a completely unacceptable return.

I'm actually flabbergasted at how easily and how many are accepting second best. This is not Rangers.
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Some are blinded by Tav's apparent quality. Keep hearing that the lack of success is because he has had poor players around him. That may ring true at points but he has played with better quality players for four or five years at least.

Tav continues to make the same mistakes over and over again. He is a piss poor defender who cannot handle the pressure when it really matters. We will continue to be second best to that lot as long as he is around.
 
Dashboard Jesus said:
Some are blinded by Tav's apparent quality. Keep hearing that the lack of success is because he has had poor players around him. That may ring true at points but he has played with better quality players for four or five years at least.

Tav continues to make the same mistakes over and over again. He is a piss poor defender who cannot handle the pressure when it really matters. We will continue to be second best to that lot as long as he is around.
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Yes because stepping up to score a penalty in a European Final shootout carried no pressure.

The numerous times he takes penalties ro rescue points for us late on in games are easy.

I absolutely get people thinking Tavs slowed down and maybe time for a fresh start even though I don't think so myself. But the way people fall over themselves to downplay anything and everything the guy does, as a great servant to our club, doesn't sit right at all. Especially when it's just made up nonsense to suit an agenda.
 
cooprfc said:
Every Rangers team in history has lost such games.

Jeez what a simple outlook!

Barry Ferguson captained us to third one time and he was an outstanding captain.

Barry also missed two penalties jn the one game as we laboured to a 2-2 draw at Dundee in the run in in 2003 when we won the title on GD.
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An unfortunate choice of opening words by you given that no Rangers team had of course ever lost to Ross County until two weeks ago.

You are of course conveniently choosing to overlook that these were two crucial games - but against inferior opposition - at a critical point of the season. Nowithstanding the missed opportunity in the OF we had got ourselves in the position still to go into the split two points ahead.

Each of these games was all about mental fortitude, holding our nerve and showing that we had the psychological strength and commitment to see each through to victory.

And we fucked it, again, against the backdrop of 3 trophies in 8 seasons.

It's simply nonsense to suggest that it's lack of quality - rather than mentality - which is the issue.

Oh, and Barry Ferguson's history of lifting trophies for Rangers means he has to justify his strength of character to no one.
 
Carlos Danger said:
He’s definitely a big part in the mentality problem we have. Remember the white flag before hearts??? He’s been done by Hibs in a final,Hibs in a semi,Aberdeen in a semi,Motherwell in a semi,add in Celtic countless times,he must have serious scar tissue when it comes to getting it over the line. At st Mirren I’m looking at him and he seemed lifeless,like the pressure has eaten him up.
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What people can't get into their head is they think because Tav has scored pressure penalties he can handle pressure in big games. Goldson, Tav, Kent et al all looked good in the 55 season and it's no surprise that without the fans they all looked immense.

When there is a big league game againat the scum they generally all choke, and that's not the attribute of a Rangers player. Move both on and we might start winning leagues on a regular basis.
 
CapitalBear1973 said:
An unfortunate choice of opening words by you given that no Rangers team had of course ever lost to Ross County until two weeks ago.

You are of course conveniently choosing to overlook that these were two crucial games - but against inferior opposition - at a critical point of the season. Nowithstanding the missed opportunity in the OF we had got ourselves in the position still to go into the split two points ahead.

Each of these games was all about mental fortitude, holding our nerve and showing that we had the psychological strength and commitment to see each through to victory.

And we fucked it, again, against the backdrop of 3 trophies in 8 seasons.

It's simply nonsense to suggest that it's lack of quality - rather than mentality - which is the issue.

Oh, and Barry Ferguson's history of lifting trophies for Rangers means he has to justify his strength of character to no one.
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So you're trying to tell me that Rangers teams of the past didn't lose games like that? Of course they did.

Walter Smiths title winning Rangers lost 1-0 to ICT at Ibrox in the run in in 2009. It looked a fatal loss. It wasn't. Earlier that season we had drawn 3 games in a row.

The year before, we collapsed on the home straight and lost the title.

Our treble winning team of 2003 drew in Dundee after the split with Barry missing two penalties. It almost cost us the title. It didn't.

In 2005, we lost at home to Dundee United in the run in before losing a must win old firm to fall 5 points behind with 4 games left. It looked fatal. It wasn't.

I'm not conveniently overlooking anything. You e basically just decided these were crucial games and are ignoring any examples of when we've dealt with this so called pressure.

Does the fact we beat with St Mirren last Sunday in another crucial game show we've got strong mentality? No it doesn't. Like the Ross County and Dundee games, they are just games of football that we win 70% of the time. As do Celtic.

It's very simple just to throw around ideas of "mentality' every time you lose but ignore other times we won or ignore times winning teams also lost such games.

Tavernier also has a history of lifting trophies for Rangers. It may not be as much as we'd like but he has got over the line. So why is it mentality when we lose but ignoring the times we didn't.

It's like talking to a cult on here at times who ignore everything good Tavernier and club have done in his time at the club just so people can moan about him. Yes he has failings. Yes he's slowing down. Yes it maybe time for a fresh start. But the way people downplay anything good that the club have done is bordering on obsessive.

Oh and both Tavernier and Ferguson have lifted one title each as Rangers captain.
 
cooprfc said:
Walter Smiths title winning Rangers lost 1-0 to ICT at Ibrox in the run in in 2009. It looked a fatal loss. It wasn't. Earlier that season we had drawn 3 games in a row.
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I remember that. A pal of mine wanted to wait and get signatures of the players after the game, I've never seen them look so pissed off reluctantly engaging with people. Walter must have gone through them. Davie Weir was the worst - it was his fault if I recall?
 
GillespiesLeftBoot said:
I remember that. A pal of mine wanted to wait and get signatures of the players after the game, I've never seen them look so pissed off reluctantly engaging with people. Walter must have gone through them. Davie Weir was the worst - it was his fault if I recall?
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It was his fault. Got wrong side and sent off as he pulled down the last man late on. Ian Black scored the winner.

All I'm saying is that lots of good Rangers teams lost games in run ins where you thought wtf. Happens a lot to all teams. It's why football is as popular as it is.
 
cooprfc said:
So you're trying to tell me that Rangers teams of the past didn't lose games like that? Of course they did.

Walter Smiths title winning Rangers lost 1-0 to ICT at Ibrox in the run in in 2009. It looked a fatal loss. It wasn't. Earlier that season we had drawn 3 games in a row.

The year before, we collapsed on the home straight and lost the title.

Our treble winning team of 2003 drew in Dundee after the split with Barry missing two penalties. It almost cost us the title. It didn't.

In 2005, we lost at home to Dundee United in the run in before losing a must win old firm to fall 5 points behind with 4 games left. It looked fatal. It wasn't.

I'm not conveniently overlooking anything. You e basically just decided these were crucial games and are ignoring any examples of when we've dealt with this so called pressure.

Does the fact we beat with St Mirren last Sunday in another crucial game show we've got strong mentality? No it doesn't. Like the Ross County and Dundee games, they are just games of football that we win 70% of the time. As do Celtic.

It's very simple just to throw around ideas of "mentality' every time you lose but ignore other times we won or ignore times winning teams also lost such games.

Tavernier also has a history of lifting trophies for Rangers. It may not be as much as we'd like but he has got over the line. So why is it mentality when we lose but ignoring the times we didn't.

It's like talking to a cult on here at times who ignore everything good Tavernier and club have done in his time at the club just so people can moan about him. Yes he has failings. Yes he's slowing down. Yes it maybe time for a fresh start. But the way people downplay anything good that the club have done is bordering on obsessive.

Oh and both Tavernier and Ferguson have lifted one title each as Rangers captain.
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I don't have time for a lengthy debate but suffice to say I will be delighted to wipe the egg off my face if this team prove to be "treble winning" or "title winning" like the sides you refer to. Unfortunately the previous several seasons haven't got me holding my breath.

Of course these games were crucial. The finishing line is in sight and a two point lead (five points, I reckon, if Tavernier hadn't had his OF brain fart) would have been critical - but the old psychological nose bleed took hold again.

Glad to see you at least contemplate that a fresh start might just be needed. I'll be hugely disappointed if we don't win the title and yet start next season with the same on-field "leadership."

And I don't think it's wise for you to draw comparisons between Barry's 15 trophy haul and Tavernier's "history of lifting trophies for Rangers".
 
WarnbroTavernier said:
That's a bit of a stretch
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Did you read what came after it and what it was in reply to?

You can't say previous failures by the club can be disregarded because captains had a history of lifting trophies but that these failures are all on Tav.

Some have a bigger history than others but we have got over the line with Tav also. I'm not sure who decides where the cut off is for what counts as a history of lifting torphies.
 
I don't get how anyone can argue the fact that season after season Tav's bottle crashes when it comes to the business end of the season. There is no point being good for 90% of the season if his brain turns to mush the 10% where the pressure is really on, especially as captain.
 
CapitalBear1973 said:
I don't have time for a lengthy debate but suffice to say I will be delighted to wipe the egg off my face if this team prove to be "treble winning" or "title winning" like the sides you refer to. Unfortunately the previous several seasons haven't got me holding my breath.

Of course these games were crucial. The finishing line is in sight and a two point lead (five points, I reckon, if Tavernier hadn't had his OF brain fart) would have been critical - but the old psychological nose bleed took hold again.

Glad to see you at least contemplate that a fresh start might just be needed. I'll be hugely disappointed if we don't win the title and yet start next season with the same on-field "leadership."

And I don't think it's wise for you to draw comparisons between Barry's 15 trophy haul and Tavernier's "history of lifting trophies for Rangers".
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There was a bit of context to the "history of lifting trophies for Rangers" mate. You only had to read the sentence that came after it.

I do think a fresh start maybe required. I find a lot of the argument against Tav to be quite simple.

Football is genuinely easier to win when you have better players and managers than the opposition and, generally, that's not been the case for most of the time Tav has been here. It really does mainly come down to that.

Ad I've said, all successful Rangers teams lost games that were seen as crucial at the time. They get lost in history because the season took another turn. That's football.
 
Lovenkrands Dug said:
I don't get how anyone can argue the fact that season after season Tav's bottle crashes when it comes to the business end of the season. There is no point being good for 90% of the season if his brain turns to mush the 10% where the pressure is really on, especially as captain.
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Complete bottler

His body language at Ross County alone should have seen him dropped

Yes he scores a bit but he costs us goals every bloody week

Can’t wait until he leaves
 
Cooper's left peg said:
Its been a shocking and, quite frankly, a completely unacceptable return.

I'm actually flabbergasted at how easily and how many are accepting second best. This is not Rangers.
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It’s not, but we’d never experienced the trauma and agony of a complete financial implosion that nearly put us out of business before.

The way many fans dismiss that period in our history and the reverberations it continues to have on us is part of the problem we have, IMO.

We haven’t adjusted our expectations, because we can’t. The majority of us have been brought up on a history of more or less sustained success and it isn’t in our DNA to see or accept that we pretty much are second best at the moment because we are still clawing our way back to the top.

It was never going to be a perfectly smooth trajectory back to the summit. I think many felt that after we won 55 that was us back and the glory days were finally upon us again, but there probably were always going to be more bumps in the road and I think that’s what we’re experiencing now and why fans are struggling to process it.
 
Chapman billie said:
He's also beaten Hearts in a final, Aberdeen in a final, Celtic twice in semi finals, Hearts twice in semi finals and Aberdeen in a semi final. Not to mention RB Leipzig in a European semi final. No mentality issues there.
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Bigbluebear said:
Our European progress over the last 6 years is far better and far more important to the club than winning both cups every season would have been. Unfortunately there's no medals to show for it though. I dread to think what position we would be in if we didnt it have the finances that 6 years of group stage football and then knockouts for 4 of the 6 seasons have brought us. That's be worth far far more to the club than domestic cups.

The irony here is if we had been shite in Europe and achieved nothing, but won all those cups then Tav would be more lauded than he is.

The only domestic trophy that really matters is the league.
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Of course he did. You think it’s just a coincidence that we haven’t won a great deal of trophies during his tenure as captain??? I know some players haven’t been great who he’s played with but we’ve had plenty of opportunities and blew them.
 
WLF said:
This is why I think it’s a real mixed bag for me. I can’t say he’s overcome the adversity or the issues with mentality when you only have to go back a few weeks to a massive game where he’s clearly let the pressure and the occasion get to him in a manner that proved very costly. He’s had some real highs, and a lot of lows too, I don’t think anyone can dispute that really. What can’t be disputed is value for money and the level of effort given. What also can’t be disputed is he’s far from alone in not bringing the success required.
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I think he’s been a great servant but I really think the time has come.
 
Colinrfc2 said:
You sound like a mentally challenged
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You don’t think with no fans they played better??? You must eat soup with water wings on if that’s your belief. Just before lockdown they had downed tools,led by our captain and vice captain who looked lost,fast forward 5 months with no one in the stadium they were excellent. It’s not a coincidence.
 
Spart7 said:
The ifs and buts are only at the end. I'll reiterate. Undefeated, record breaking league title win 3 seasons ago, Scottish Cup win and a European final 2 seasons ago, nightmare last season, league Cup this season still with potential for a clean sweep. Knockout European football after Christmas 3 seasons out of 4. As I said previously, any other era that would be classed as a successful period and a million miles from mediocre. The early 80's were mediocre, from us returning until Gerrard's 3 season was mediocre but steady improvement.

You simply sound unjustifiably entitled to me as we are now at the stage where we are capable of repeated success moving forward and competing every season. They have had a ridiculous trophy haul for the past decade and a bit, probably the highest in any period in Scottish history, and far too many fans are expecting us to mirror that domination when it is entirely unrealistic as they are not in the position we were. We will win trophies, so will they. It was forever thus.
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A lot of text there to pull of those mental gymnastics. Connor has been with us for 6 seasons and we've won 3 trophies in that time including just 1 league title.

That isn't on Big Soapy alone of course. It's the responsibility of everyone to win silverware including managers, players and the board. But to class that return as a "successful period" in "any other era" is patently false.
 
Carlos Danger said:
Of course he did. You think it’s just a coincidence that we haven’t won a great deal of trophies during his tenure as captain??? I know some players haven’t been great who he’s played with but we’ve had plenty of opportunities and blew them.
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I think the attackers who have been largely utter shite over his time are to blame.
 
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robbo89 said:
A lot of text there to pull of those mental gymnastics. Connor has been with us for 6 seasons and we've won 3 trophies in that time including just 1 league title.

That isn't on Big Soapy alone of course. It's the responsibility of everyone to win silverware including managers, players and the board. But to class that return as a "successful period" in "any other era" is patently false.
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I didn't say 6 years though, I said the past 4, including this unfinished one, where we could be classed as being competitive. In fact, from memory I also said Gerrard's first 2 seasons were included in the unsuccessful period prior to it. Nothing patently false about it. What would be patently false is expecting and including Warburton, Pedro, Murty and Gerrard's initial spell to somehow be trophy laden despite us being miles behind them.
 
RotterdamBear said:
Complete bottler

His body language at Ross County alone should have seen him dropped

Yes he scores a bit but he costs us goals every bloody week

Can’t wait until he leaves
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Must be all that weed in Rotterdam that has destroyed any brain cells you had.
 
cooprfc said:
Every Rangers team in history has lost such games.

Jeez what a simple outlook!

Barry Ferguson captained us to third one time and he was an outstanding captain.

Barry also missed two penalties jn the one game as we laboured to a 2-2 draw at Dundee in the run in in 2003 when we won the title on GD.
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I don’t think in fact I know Barry’s bottle or balls were never in question not his talent
 
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