Have we outgrown Scottish football. ?

YorkshireBlue said:
I've posted about this before, the foundations for something like this is already here.

UEFA could quite easily create this based on the coefficient table.

Champions League: Top 20 teams
Europa League: 21-40
Conference League: 41-64

A straight knockout cup competition between the 64 teams, call it the European Cup.

All 55 national leagues below that.

We go into the Europa and play teams similar to who we've faced over the last four years. It would be brilliant.
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Almost every match would be a banger. Away days would be tough though!
 
Ted Rangers said:
Yeah, but the problem with trying to play proper football in Scotland is that our players aren't protected enough.

They're constantly booted about the park, and face 10 men behind the ball every game.
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And quite often we are playing against the man in black too… (edit. Men in black; should include the linesmen!)
 
Think the modern footballing world has out grown Scottish football they’ve all moved with the times, but Scottish football is unwilling/unable to
 
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YorkshireBlue said:
I've posted about this before, the foundations for something like this is already here.

UEFA could quite easily create this based on the coefficient table.

Champions League: Top 20 teams
Europa League: 21-40
Conference League: 41-64

A straight knockout cup competition between the 64 teams, call it the European Cup.

All 55 national leagues below that.

We go into the Europa and play teams similar to who we've faced over the last four years. It would be brilliant.
Click to expand...
I like the idea but that would be an unprecedented power grab by UEFA. They definitely want a bigger slice of the pie but it’ll be done slice by slice over many years imo.
 
We've won the league once since we came back ffs. And failed to finish ahead of an average mentally challengeds side this season.
 
muttley said:
I think perhaps the OP has been taken the wrong way, which is my mistake. I meant Rangers style of football has outgrown Scottish football. We are the polar opposite of the hammer-throwing thugs we face every week in Scotland, and it is shown in European competition. We have outgrown Scottish football, in that respect. We are nothing like the rest of the SPFL.
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I agree with what you say, the football we have played in Europe has been brilliant and that’s the reason we got to the final and put out decent teams but they where also trying to play football to win and that’s what makes for an exciting game, two teams playing football to win but in the Scottish game teams set out not to loose and do anything possible from playing ten men behind a ball to kicking out at any opportunity and throw in some of the pitches we also need to play on.
 
BlueBadger said:
I like the idea but that would be an unprecedented power grab by UEFA. They definitely want a bigger slice of the pie but it’ll be done slice by slice over many years imo.
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Needs to come from the big clubs in the big leagues. Then there would definitely be push back from English Premier League.
 
YorkshireBlue said:
I've posted about this before, the foundations for something like this is already here.

UEFA could quite easily create this based on the coefficient table.

Champions League: Top 20 teams
Europa League: 21-40
Conference League: 41-64

A straight knockout cup competition between the 64 teams, call it the European Cup.

All 55 national leagues below that.

We go into the Europa and play teams similar to who we've faced over the last four years. It would be brilliant.
Click to expand...
i think this will happen but it might be in twenty years or so. Our B team could play in Scotland still be competitive and provide a pathway to the first team.
 
cooperman said:
Hope var helps in the future
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I think it will be a minor help.
Because “Scottish VAR” will be operated by these same guys with the same mindset
Maybe will help on clear offsides (like the 4 yards one this year in OF game).

Its really important regarding the OPs point about our style of play.
We can play a certain style in Europe because we are refereed fairly.
I am not saying all refs we encounter in Euro are excellent but for sure there’s no one as bad as Collum or as corrupt as Clancy, Beaton etc….
Alfie is a case in point: excelled in Europe because he can play fair but physical. In Scotland his first minor foul is a guaranteed yellow. And he knows it. It restricts him.
 
We outgrew it 40 years ago, maybe we've always been too big for it. But outside of our inclusion in a new European setup, I can't see how it ever changes.
 
YorkshireBlue said:
Needs to come from the big clubs in the big leagues. Then there would definitely be push back from English Premier League.
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The tv streaming market is worth watching as well. Amazon Prime and Apple TV (baseball) are getting into sports for their live broadcasts. Apple wants the best so that means Ajax, Porto and Rangers over Wolves, Brentford and Palace.
 
Supersonic2.0 said:
Swear a thread like this pops up every 2 weeks. If we have outgrown it why haven’t we won the league this year.
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I’m having similar thoughts.

The Euro runs if recent years have been quite amazing.

However, we’ve won 2 out of the last 6 domestic trophies. I’m not counting any further back than the last two seasons because to do so would send a shudder up your spine.
 
BroomloanWATP said:
I was always against the idea of an "Atlantic League" or similar proposals, but I have completely changed my mind. The last few years in Europe have been an absolute joy with a couple of exceptions. The teams, the opposition fans and the officiating have all been on a completely different level to the shite, hateful cheating we endure in Scotland.

Rangers
Porto
Benfica
Ajax
Lyon
Marseilles (spit)
Braga
Red Star
Brondby
Feyenoord
Antwerp
Brugges
Frankfurt

Imagine playing those teams weekly instead of shite like St Mirren or Aberdeen who only exist to hate Rangers.
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Yeh 4 or 5 years of not winning that league and then what, we become like other clubs, same for Celtic, mid table in that league they won't be getting 50,000 every game. And games against Ajax, Frankfurt become run of the mill.

The SPFL is getting worse though the Op has a point, just as well we are guaranteed at least Europ League group football. Thats our highlight of the season from now on
 
Never going to happen.

There would be legal problems for us joining a Scandinavian or BeNeLux league. There would also be logistical problems - Scandinavian football is usually played over the summer.

The English don't need us. If they ever got to the point where they'd admit Rangers or Celtic then it's essentially a green light for the biggest English sides to say that they've outgrown the EPL and that they have to play in their own European super league. Remember the reaction when they tried to form their own super league beyond the control of the EPL?
 
muttley said:
Our spectacular runs in Europe over the last few years has not only highlighted but amplified the difference in us and the rest of Scottish football. We look like a fish out of water after European ties and thrown back into the grind of hammer-throwing opponents and brutal thuggery on the pitch, which is waived away as " normal " by Scottish refs and other officials. We look and play like a European side, and not a Scottish football team.
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Yes, Scottish football holds us back. If we joined a European Super League or the English league I know we’d be one of the best footballing clubs in the world. Really hope we leave the rest to rot at some point in the next 10 years. The rest of Scottish football showed us no mercy when they voted us to go down the divisions. I will feel no sorrow when clubs like Motherwell and Hibs go bust without Old Firm money.
 
Personally I am not all that interested in a European League. It would totally ruin the epic feel of the special European nights if we are playing these teams every week.

The only alternative to what we have now that I would be happy with is if we moved to the English set up.

There are teams in Scotland with potential. Aberdeen and Hearts have big supports and if cash was invested in those teams they could (obviously) provide a stronger challenge to Rangers and the vermin. The lack of ambition at these clubs is bizarre.
 
BlueBadger said:
The tv streaming market is worth watching as well. Amazon Prime and Apple TV (baseball) are getting into sports for their live broadcasts. Apple wants the best so that means Ajax, Porto and Rangers over Wolves, Brentford and Palace.
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I wonder if they have watched football, and see the stories and atmosphere involved in clubs like Rangers, Porto, Ajax etc. as a selling point for football worldwide.

These clubs create great atmospheres every week, and would do even more if they were playing against each other in big games.

It would certainly be more entertaining than Man City v Arsenal in silence.
 
David Murray spouted this idea 30 years ago.

It will never happen, would love it to happen.

We are big in Scotland and just have to deal with it. Our out is playing well against decent teams from Europe.

I still think there is more to come especially with GVB at the helm.
 
Tino_Col said:
We've won the league once since we came back ffs. And failed to finish ahead of an average mentally challengeds side this season.
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And yet still about 30 points clear of 3rd. The league is an absolute sham. Full of teams with no ambition or desire to improve. I’m gobsmacked that season ticket sales are still brilliant considering there is very little entertainment value in the 19 home games
 
To be honest, OP .I see these threads nearly every season.

We outgrew Scottish football decades ago but, truth is, we are encapsulated in the fabric of the game in Scotland and won't be leaving anytime soon.
 
BlueBadger said:
The tv streaming market is worth watching as well. Amazon Prime and Apple TV (baseball) are getting into sports for their live broadcasts. Apple wants the best so that means Ajax, Porto and Rangers over Wolves, Brentford and Palace.
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They'll no doubt want to broadcast Rangers, especially if they see any of the footage from Ibrox during our Europa run. The problem is they won't be too keen on us away to Kilmarnock for the 4th time in a season.

That kinda answers the thread title, Scottish Football definitely holds us back.
 
Considering the population of Scotland and when you look at the leagues of similarly populated countries - us and them are abnormally large clubs.

Even if it impacted on how many trophies we end up winning, I'd actually welcome another side mounting some sort of challenge and making it a three horse race than an eternal two horse race between us and them.

The European run just shines a light on how boring our domestic game is, once you get a taste for winning big games like that it just makes our domestic game feel like a means to an end to get involved in proper football matches against proper football teams.
 
the_baron said:
Considering the population of Scotland and when you look at the leagues of similarly populated countries - us and them are abnormally large clubs.

Even if it impacted on how many trophies we end up winning, I'd actually welcome another side mounting some sort of challenge and making it a three horse race than an eternal two horse race between us and them.
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Germany just as bad.

Bundesliga - Champions

Bundesliga » Champions
www.worldfootball.net www.worldfootball.net
 
TW14 said:
I think we best just accept it as is, huge fish, small pond.

These fantasies of EPL, Scandinavian leagues etc are just that
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I will be honest I want to go nowhere near england or some fantasy league.

I don’t want my club to be turned into some tourist attraction with over the top ticket prices each week and sitting beside some yank with a half and half scarf round his neck taking selfies on his phone.

I hate Scottish teams but that’s what makes it what it is. Us and them are massive clubs for the shit league we are in but I’d miss the rivalry with Aberdeen, Hibs etc. I hate them bastards with a vengeance but always look forward to our games against them as it’s a traditional rivalry. I don’t wanna lose that
 
The answer is to make the product in Scotland better.

Unfortunately there is no appetite to do it, the other teams are involved in a race to the bottom.
 
Heaven_on_Earth said:
I will be honest I want to go nowhere near england or some fantasy league.

I don’t want my club to be turned into some tourist attraction with over the top ticket prices each week and sitting beside some yank with a half and half scarf round his neck taking selfies on his phone.

I hate Scottish teams but that’s what makes it what it is. Us and them are massive clubs for the shit league we are in but I’d miss the rivalry with Aberdeen, Hibs etc. I hate them bastards with a vengeance but always look forward to our games against them as it’s a traditional rivalry. I don’t wanna lose that
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100 percent accurate

Save the glory for the European nights !
 
Nelka said:
The answer is to make the product in Scotland better.

Unfortunately there is no appetite to do it, the other teams are involved in a race to the bottom.
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There is a distinct lack of ambition in our league but hopefully the potential for making some euros in the Conference league will bring that back.
 
Playing in Scottish football now almost feels claustrophobic. It's absolutely dross and corrupt to the core. Would love to move on, but it's not going to happen and even if it does, it's not anytime soon.
 
devilman said:
We probably have. Then again we probably did a long time back.

What the other clubs in the Scottish Premiership should doing is using it as a platform to improve themselves. Generate more income for themselves and become better, to the stage where they don't go on massive runs but aren't beaten out of Europe instantly. This makes the league more challenging and everyone starts to get better as it filters down.

Sadly, the other clubs in Scotland out with Rangers and Celtic (and Celtic are still too focussed on their hate and beating us to really try) are too focussed on hating Rangers. They hate Rangers that much that it stunts the growth of their own club. It stops the smaller clubs even being properly supported as they work themselves into a frenzy that only games against one team counts.

It's very sad. Scottish football is f**ked. Between the SFA, SPFL, Celtic and the fans of diddy clubs there is just no interest in making it better. Thankfully for Scotland they've got us, even if they'll never admit it. We're keeping it alive.
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No mate sadly their fans tried to kill us.
Scottish football has hated itself to its own demise..
 
Any cross border league should be shut down immediately. Horrendous idea. We're a Scottish club, we play in Scotland. Part of the fun of European away days is it's places you don't get to go to often.

And there also wouldn't be any qualification for things such as Champions League/Europa League. Why would we want that?
 
TheMish said:
the whole, let's leave Scotland thing is the chat of people who never go to games of football IMO.
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They probably also supported the Super League - just so they had something decent to watch on the telly.

Imho we really need to get back to winning the league and cups on a regular basis before we can claim to have outgrown Scottish Football.

Truth be told our European adventures have papered over a lot of domestic failures.
 
It definitely won't be England - best hope is a european league or a complete overhaul of the league system europe wide.

Still miles off at the moment.
 
TW14 said:
I think we best just accept it as is, huge fish, small pond.

These fantasies of EPL, Scandinavian leagues etc are just that
Click to expand...
I considered this a few weeks ago , With our Europa runs , and them with champs league qualification , the gap is now becoming to great with the rest financially , this league had massive drive to win it but mostly down to the prize at the end . No one cares , the league games are torture at times , and it’s almost at saturation point .
 
BroomloanWATP said:
I was always against the idea of an "Atlantic League" or similar proposals, but I have completely changed my mind. The last few years in Europe have been an absolute joy with a couple of exceptions. The teams, the opposition fans and the officiating have all been on a completely different level to the shite, hateful cheating we endure in Scotland.

Rangers
Porto
Benfica
Ajax
Lyon
Marseilles (spit)
Braga
Red Star
Brondby
Feyenoord
Antwerp
Brugges
Frankfurt

Imagine playing those teams weekly instead of shite like St Mirren or Aberdeen who only exist to hate Rangers.
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Unrealistic, and Bayern and PSG wouldn't be happy. Germany and France are hardly diddy leagues...
 
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YorkshireBlue said:
I've posted about this before, the foundations for something like this is already here.

UEFA could quite easily create this based on the coefficient table.

Champions League: Top 20 teams
Europa League: 21-40
Conference League: 41-64

A straight knockout cup competition between the 64 teams, call it the European Cup.

All 55 national leagues below that.

We go into the Europa and play teams similar to who we've faced over the last four years. It would be brilliant.
Click to expand...

So what are the rewards for the teams that perform brilliantly domestically ala Leicester?
 
The only way this would work is for a British league where the big 6 and Old Firm combine. The full EPL membership would not vote for it.
 
YorkshireBlue said:
Needs to come from the big clubs in the big leagues. Then there would definitely be push back from English Premier League.
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We have already seen down South that the fans and indeed the players don't want a European League - the domestic game is healthy and that is where their true rivalries are.

The EPL is a massive sticking point for any new format.
 
Ted Rangers said:
Yeah, but the problem with trying to play proper football in Scotland is that our players aren't protected enough.

They're constantly booted about the park, and face 10 men behind the ball every game.

On the other hand, the other teams have no money to get or keep decent players

I honestly think we should have about 10 professional teams, with the diddy clubs being merged. Maybe they would then fill half of their grounds every week.
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They wouldn't. If Rangers and Celtic were merged so we could have more success in Europe, would you go watch the new team? Fans of all the other clubs are the exact same
BroomhouseBear said:
I’m having similar thoughts.

The Euro runs if recent years have been quite amazing.

However, we’ve won 2 out of the last 6 domestic trophies. I’m not counting any further back than the last two seasons because to do so would send a shudder up your spine.
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I think the issue is that Scottish football is refereed so differently from European football it's effectively a different sport. How do we build a squad that can have success in both at the same time? Not many teams have managed it. Scotland has had 3 European finalists in my lifetime and they've never been the side that's won the league that year.
 
DavieM said:
We have already seen down South that the fans and indeed the players don't want a European League - the domestic game is healthy and that is where their true rivalries are.

The EPL is a massive sticking point for any new format.
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Agreed. When you look at their final day drama at the weekend, they don't need to change. The only push would ever come from the big clubs who may want to play against the each other along with the likes of Real Madrid, Bayern, Juventus, PSG every week as opposed to the bottom half of the EPL which if we're being honest is made up of tinpot small clubs with big budgets.
 
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