Help us avoid Emiliano Sala payment: Cardiff seek Premier League clubs' advice on escaping £15m transfer fee

usbear said:
I agree there should be no dispute but there will be

It’s a shitty deal all round

I’m not disputing Nantes aren’t owed the entire amount I’m suggesting from a get on with business point of view......if I was Nantes ceo I would understand Cardiff’s grievance in not having any value for the money spent due to an unforeseen and tragic event.....I would be inclined to offer to split the fee. I suppose to go one step further I would suggest Nante recoup their cost in the player and then split the difference (e.g. if they paid 8 million for him, then they should split the remaining 7 million) it seems like it won’t hurt them at all to agree to this and move on.
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It is an awful thing thats happened but Cardiff arent doing themselves any favours here. If i was ceo at Nantes idve waited til after the poor guy was buried but id still be looking for the full £15m at some point
 
mr magoo loyal said:
I bought a 65 inch tv it was delivered broken, company pissed about so i got my full refund, Sala was never delivered whether Nantes like it or not it is them and the agent who set up that flight who should pay!!! He didn't receive international clearance so was never able to play for Cardiff, therefore their contract is technically null and void.
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If the contract was signed Cardiff owned the player. I doubt it included “delivery” to Cardiff.
 
mr magoo loyal said:
I bought a 65 inch tv it was delivered broken, company pissed about so i got my full refund, Sala was never delivered whether Nantes like it or not it is them and the agent who set up that flight who should pay!!!
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He'd already been to Cardiff. This was the return leg for the flight where he went back to Nantes to collect some of his belongings.
 
Distasteful from Cardiff. What if he’d been in a car crash and broke both legs instead of a plane crash and lost his life? Would they be looking to adjust/avoid transfer fee?
 
Macdonsj said:
at a guess

Cardiff "owned" the player and insurance would cover it
Nantes didn't "own" the player and would have no recourse

Cardiff should pay
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See my earlier post. Insurance looks as if it will cover some - not all - of the fee. Much more to it than that though, and Cardiff could still end up around £14m out of pocket after insurance pay out. There will likely be multiple Court cases on this - I don’t see a full resolution in the next 2 years if I’m honest.
 
BunsenHoneydew said:
He'd already been to Cardiff. This was the return leg for the flight where he went back to Nantes to collect some of his belongings.
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However, in the age where footballers are just a business commodity for clubs, it would appear no money was exchanged between the clubs as he hadn't received international clearance, the onus should be on the selling club and agents involved to deliver if they don't then no payment! Cardiff will probably argue without the clearance there is no contract and technically they could be right.

The focus needs to be on the agents and Nantes role in all this as who the %^*& puts a so called multi million pound player in a flying skip?
 
That whole story summed up in one word, Greed.
That agent also booked his flight and obviously went with the cheapest option. Scumbag.
 
Dooodooodrooo said:
That whole story summed up in one word, Greed.
That agent also booked his flight and obviously went with the cheapest option. Scumbag.
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Certainly a lot of greed in this issue, however, it makes no sense to say the private jet was the cheaper option. Clearly commercial flights would have been a fraction of the cost.
 
I'm sure that one of the teams (or their insurance companies) will be paying Sala's family the amount that his contract would have totalled over it's remaining 3/4 years whatever it was.

IF that club is Cardiff then they must be liable for the transfer fee.
 
ChiefWahoo said:
As much as this appears like Cardiff are acting the cùnt, it's obvious that Nantes have already made a legal claim for the entire fee.

Nobody is coming out of this with any credit.
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If you'd signed paperrwork agreeing to getting millions of pounds into your business and it was coming slow... you'd get your lawyers to quietly prompt too. The interest alone that they are missing is huge and unlike Cardiff, this isnt a club rolling in the seemingly infinite income from the EPL tv deal! Cardiff in delaying are completely in the wrong and does reek of them trying to weasel out of it. Boy was only on that plane because the transfer was complete.
 
Valley Bluenose said:
Certainly a lot of greed in this issue, however, it makes no sense to say the private jet was the cheaper option. Clearly commercial flights would have been a fraction of the cost.
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I wasn't considering commercial flights. The player wanted a chartered flight that evening so they booked a single engined aircraft with a person who flew as a hobby at the controls.
That plane was not fit for purpose on many levels.
 
Dooodooodrooo said:
I wasn't considering commercial flights. The player wanted a chartered flight that evening so they booked a single engined aircraft with a person who flew as a hobby at the controls.
That plane was not fit for purpose on many levels.
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I’ve no idea of the abilities of the pilot mate, I doubt many on here have beyond the speculation in the media.

As for the aircraft, thousands of them fly all over the world on a daily basis. I watch dozens take off every day from a local airfield whenever I visit my son in Cheltenham, for example. It was obviously airworthy enough to make the flight over to France in the first place. I have no doubt the investigation will find that it was airworthy in the ‘legal’ sense. The more appropriate question may be whether it should have flown in the forecast weather conditions.

The pilots ability level and the decision to fly in poor weather will, I suspect, be the ultimate focus of the investigation.

All just speculation on my part as well, of course.
 
usbear said:
They should offer to pay half

Nantes should agree

And they both move on
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That would make sense. However, Nantes have handled it very, very poorly. They've acted proper greedy and with huge disrespect. This conversation between them should have taken place much later.
 
Valley Bluenose said:
I’ve no idea of the abilities of the pilot mate, I doubt many on here have beyond the speculation in the media.

As for the aircraft, thousands of them fly all over the world on a daily basis. I watch dozens take off every day from a local airfield whenever I visit my son in Cheltenham, for example. It was obviously airworthy enough to make the flight over to France in the first place. I have no doubt the investigation will find that it was airworthy in the ‘legal’ sense. The more appropriate question may be whether it should have flown in the forecast weather conditions.

The pilots ability level and the decision to fly in poor weather will, I suspect, be the ultimate focus of the investigation.

All just speculation on my part as well, of course.
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You Do not fly that type of aircraft over the English channel in that weather. The pilot was out of his depth as he was usually only doing sky diving flights. Case in point, he didn't have his commercial pilots licence, hence any insurance involved will be null and void.
The ultimate focus will likely conclude that the freezing temperatures caused the aircraft's engine to cease working. It was concluded very early on that the pilots ability and judgement was not to the required standard.
I've flown in many type of aircraft including one of similar size to that which crashed. Only difference is that it had two engines and it wasn't freezing in the middle of January. Both of those last points would have been taken into account by an experienced pilot.
 
Dooodooodrooo said:
You Do not fly that type of aircraft over the English channel in that weather. The pilot was out of his depth as he was usually only doing sky diving flights. Case in point, he didn't have his commercial pilots licence, hence any insurance involved will be null and void.
The ultimate focus will likely conclude that the freezing temperatures caused the aircraft's engine to cease working. It was concluded very early on that the pilots ability and judgement was not to the required standard.
I've flown in many type of aircraft including one of similar size to that which crashed. Only difference is that it had two engines and it wasn't freezing in the middle of January. Both of those last points would have been taken into account by an experienced pilot.
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Private eye had an article on this, it’s suggested this was a “grey charter” where the passenger is splitting the cost of the flight with the pilot rather then booking a commercial flight hence the pilot doesn’t require a commercial pilots licence.
 
mr magoo loyal said:
However, in the age where footballers are just a business commodity for clubs, it would appear no money was exchanged between the clubs as he hadn't received international clearance, the onus should be on the selling club and agents involved to deliver if they don't then no payment! Cardiff will probably argue without the clearance there is no contract and technically they could be right.
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The contracts had been signed two days earlier, and the international clearance had come through on the morning of the flight. The transfer deal between Cardiff and Nantes stipulated when the first instalment was due. It was only after that due date that Nantes contacted Cardiff.

mr magoo loyal said:
The focus needs to be on the agents and Nantes role in all this as who the %^*& puts a so called multi million pound player in a flying skip?
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Agents, yes - I don't see how Nantes can be involved in a flight brokered by the agent of a player who was playing for another team.
 
Dooodooodrooo said:
You Do not fly that type of aircraft over the English channel in that weather. The pilot was out of his depth as he was usually only doing sky diving flights. Case in point, he didn't have his commercial pilots licence, hence any insurance involved will be null and void.
The ultimate focus will likely conclude that the freezing temperatures caused the aircraft's engine to cease working. It was concluded very early on that the pilots ability and judgement was not to the required standard.
I've flown in many type of aircraft including one of similar size to that which crashed. Only difference is that it had two engines and it wasn't freezing in the middle of January. Both of those last points would have been taken into account by an experienced pilot.
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You clearly have some experience in these matters. As I’ve said, I known nothing of the pilots abilities and won’t place my faith in press reports of an emotive story. It wouldn’t be the first time they’d got it wrong. The man deserves to have the investigation conclude before being metaphorically hung, drawn and quartered.

Did he need a commercial pilots licence? As I understand it, Willie McKays grandson (?) plays for Cardiff and offered to get his grandad to have someone fly him back as a favour. If that’s true - just something reported in the text messages they released - would it require a commercial pilots licence? I have no idea.

I think we are both agreed that the investigation is likely to conclude that the aircraft was ultimately lost due to weather conditions impacting upon the aircraft’s engine, wings and/or equipment. Whether they also say that the flight should not have been undertaken given the forecast weather conditions and that there was, therefore, an error of judgement by the pilot - or that he lacked the ability or qualifications to attemp the flight at all - remains to be seen. The pilot also lost his life, let’s not pre-judge the results of the investigation and condemn him from the outset - however damning the news reports may be. He too has a grieving family.
 
Smkz23 said:
Private eye had an article on this, it’s suggested this was a “grey charter” where the passenger is splitting the cost of the flight with the pilot rather then booking a commercial flight hence the pilot doesn’t require a commercial pilots licence.
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Hence my original post, the agent booked the flight and went for the cheapest charter option.
 
Cardiff have to pay £15m to Nantes. They can't escape this. However there is also agent fees, Sala's signing on fee and wages (that'll be over £10m ) and that's going to cost Cardiff over £14m.
You can be certain every transfer fee from now on will be written with every eventuality considered.
 
I would imagine contract signed player paraded and registered he was a Cardiff player imagine of he had tripped broke his neck two minutes after signing on the dotted line would Cardiff refuse to stump up seems to e he had been a Cardiff player for more than a few days.
 
Valley Bluenose said:
You clearly have some experience in these matters. As I’ve said, I known nothing of the pilots abilities and won’t place my faith in press reports of an emotive story. It wouldn’t be the first time they’d got it wrong. The man deserves to have the investigation conclude before being metaphorically hung, drawn and quartered.

Did he need a commercial pilots licence? As I understand it, Willie McKays grandson (?) plays for Cardiff and offered to get his grandad to have someone fly him back as a favour. If that’s true - just something reported in the text messages they released - would it require a commercial pilots licence? I have no idea.

I think we are both agreed that the investigation is likely to conclude that the aircraft was ultimately lost due to weather conditions impacting upon the aircraft’s engine, wings and/or equipment. Whether they also say that the flight should not have been undertaken given the forecast weather conditions and that there was, therefore, an error of judgement by the pilot - or that he lacked the ability or qualifications to attemp the flight at all - remains to be seen. The pilot also lost his life, let’s not pre-judge the results of the investigation and condemn him from the outset - however damning the news reports may be. He too has a grieving family.
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I'm not condemning the pilot, he's just out to make some money. It's the agency behind the pilot that should be looked at.
Also, the players agent by booking such a flight is also somewhat culpable.
You need a commercial licence to carry passengers. As someone else pointed out, there's a grey area that allows pilots of any ability to operate despite the rules in place.
Any insurance held will still be null and void though. That's why the scramble to obtain and keep the money is now taking place.
It's all down to whoever thought it was a good idea to book that flight. Wonder if they'd have booked it for their own family member?
 
Did Cardiff or did Cardiff not sign Sala?

They signed him. So pay up as agreed. Not Nantes’ fault that their insurance was inferior.
 
Dooodooodrooo said:
I'm not condemning the pilot, he's just out to make some money. It's the agency behind the pilot that should be looked at.
Also, the players agent by booking such a flight is also somewhat culpable.
You need a commercial licence to carry passengers. As someone else pointed out, there's a grey area that allows pilots of any ability to operate despite the rules in place.
Any insurance held will still be null and void though. That's why the scramble to obtain and keep the money is now taking place.
It's all down to whoever thought it was a good idea to book that flight. Wonder if they'd have booked it for their own family member?
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I think it’s all going to get very ‘grey’. Willie McKay’s son appears to have been the main Agent in the deal. The Agent’s son, who plays for Cardiff, appears to have arranged the flight via his grandfather (Willie McKay) in an aircraft that some rumours suggest may have been owned by Willie McKay. We don’t know whether the relationship between Willie McKay and the pilot was purely commercial or whether they were also friends. There may have been no agency involved in hiring the pilot at all, it could have been ‘mates rates’.

We can speculate until the cows come home. In truth the investigation should come to it’s conclusions fairly easily and fairly quickly.
 
Valley Bluenose said:
I think it’s all going to get very ‘grey’. Willie McKay’s son appears to have been the main Agent in the deal. The Agent’s son, who plays for Cardiff, appears to have arranged the flight via his grandfather (Willie McKay) in an aircraft that some rumours suggest may have been owned by Willie McKay. We don’t know whether the relationship between Willie McKay and the pilot was purely commercial or whether they were also friends. There may have been no agency involved in hiring the pilot at all, it could have been ‘mates rates’.

We can speculate until the cows come home. In truth the investigation should come to it’s conclusions fairly easily and fairly quickly.
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The plane wasn’t mckay’s - The Times has to apologise to him for making that claim, the only certainty in all of this is that it’s going to get very legal.
 
Valley Bluenose said:
I think it’s all going to get very ‘grey’. Willie McKay’s son appears to have been the main Agent in the deal. The Agent’s son, who plays for Cardiff, appears to have arranged the flight via his grandfather (Willie McKay) in an aircraft that some rumours suggest may have been owned by Willie McKay. We don’t know whether the relationship between Willie McKay and the pilot was purely commercial or whether they were also friends. There may have been no agency involved in hiring the pilot at all, it could have been ‘mates rates’.

We can speculate until the cows come home. In truth the investigation should come to it’s conclusions fairly easily and fairly quickly.
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Oaft, there's certainly more to it then. I bet Sala wasn't aware of all of this.
 
a_weir said:
Did Cardiff or did Cardiff not sign Sala?

They signed him. So pay up as agreed. Not Nantes’ fault that their insurance was inferior.
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The insurance won't pay out as the pilot didn't have a commercial pilots licence. If they've done it by splitting costs to get around not having a license, then he prob wouldn't even be insured for that type of flight.
 
Dooodooodrooo said:
Oaft, there's certainly more to it then. I bet Sala wasn't aware of all of this.
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Apologies, I see later reports that Willie McKay denies selecting the aircraft or the pilot, though he did arrange the flight. His son Mark was the Agent in the Sala Deal. The text messages released were between Willie McKay’s other son Jack McKay, who plays for Cardiff, and Sala. See link for details. All going to get ‘messy’ as I suggested.

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport.../emiliano-salas-text-messages-reveal-15735670
 
Valley Bluenose said:
Apologies, I see later reports that Willie McKay denies selecting the aircraft or the pilot, though he did arrange the flight. His son Mark was the Agent in the Sala Deal. The text messages released were between Willie McKay’s other son Jack McKay, who plays for Cardiff, and Sala. See link for details. All going to get ‘messy’ as I suggested.

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport.../emiliano-salas-text-messages-reveal-15735670
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I had read somwhere that an agency was involved where pilots can register and make themselves available for any jobs. I'm sure Sala wasn't aware that his pilot was actually a plumber.
That's where the problem lies. This is your plane, fly it. Apparently no money changed hands so no insurance company will pay out due to no commercial licence.
 
Comes down to it he'd still be alive if he didn't sign for Cardiff. He wouldn't have been on that plane otherwise. Cardiff need to cough up.
 
I'd have thought that might've been a line their insurance company has come up with to avoid shelling out the whole purchase price, and they have put the onus on Cardiff to prove he was indeed worth £15m.
 
Bangersbc said:
If you'd signed paperrwork agreeing to getting millions of pounds into your business and it was coming slow... you'd get your lawyers to quietly prompt too. The interest alone that they are missing is huge and unlike Cardiff, this isnt a club rolling in the seemingly infinite income from the EPL tv deal! Cardiff in delaying are completely in the wrong and does reek of them trying to weasel out of it. Boy was only on that plane because the transfer was complete.
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I'm not sticking up for Cardiff at all mate, I just think they could have shown a bit of decorum and at least wait until the boys funeral has taken place.
 
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