League set up - preference?

Shawlands_Bluenose said:
When I was writing my dissertation at Uni I had a meeting with Campbell Ogilvie while he was working at Hearts.

He told me of an idea he had for league reconstruction which I quite liked.

2 x Leagues of 12. In both leagues, teams play each other twice for 22 games. After this, the two leagues split into 3.

The top 8 of the Premier would play each again home and away to decide League title, European places etc, playing a total of 36 games.

The top 4 of the Championship would then join the bottom four of the Premiership and all of the teams in this set up revert to zero points. They play each other home and away and the top four of this section at the end of the season then start the following season in the Premier with the bottom four going into the Championship.

The third section would be the bottom 8 of the Championship who would play each other another 2 times. There wouldnt be much to play for in this section outwith survival in the Championship.
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Interesting idea that has merit. I've advocated for exactly what the OP suggested, the tricky part is introducing enough jeopardy for the bottom half post split to keep it interesting, and hopefully encourage bigger crowds to these games. Your idea (or Ogilvie's I guess) does that.

Edit- This also gives the league the chance to get back to 36 teams. 42 is too many for a country of Scotland's population.

Going back to an 18 team league playing each other twice will hopefully never happen. The amount of dead rubber games would be enormous.
 
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Kingdom Bear said:
Not really an argument now then … all these clubs that wanted 4 old firm home games a season are cutting away allocations anyway
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They also voted Rangers out of football.

There were zero old firm games and Sky didn't give a fùck.

2012 utterly destroys the idea that these clubs should be guaranteed visits from Rangers or the filth, it also blows away the myth that Sky insist on 4 OF games.
 
Think I’d prefer an 18 team play each other twice but clubs / TV don’t want that so next best is 16 teams play each other twice which is 30 games . Then split the 16 into 4 sub groups and play each other home and away that makes it 36 league games with an intense finish for TV and almost certainly the 4 OF games they seem to think of as sacrosanct will be delivered .
 
2 Divisions of 12 spl1 and spl2
Split to 3 Divisions of 8 after 22 games
Still 14 games to play after split
Top league and bottom league play for championship and relegation, middle league plays for spl 2 championship and relegation (or return) to spl 2, 3rd league for relegation.

Unless you are totally against a split, this is the way to go, everyone plays same amount of games, same home and away, no brainer!
 
Fitba Juice said:
Realise this has been discussed many times before but with the split coming up, what's your thoughts?

Personally I'd rather a 14 team league, plenty room for a Dundee Utd/Raith etc in the top league, play each other home and away = 26 games, split into top and bottom of 7 teams, play each other twice again = 12 games (38 game season).

This would mean there would be no playing certain teams inequal times home/away.

The first stage of the season competitiveness in getting into top 7. The second stage (post split) would be earlier, so there would be games between stronger opponents, no more games at this stage against the likes of Livi where 3 points are virtually guaranteed.

Obviously you'd struggle to get the lower league teams to vote for it as it'd mean only 1 home game guaranteed against us and them. But the way they're going, they clearly don't want our fans there anyway, as they're considering reducing our allocation all the time.

Or would you prefer to do away with any kind of split at all?
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I agree but with a top 6 and bottom 8.
 
I'd prefer a top league of 18 or 20 teams.

A top flight like that would maximise the ability for the league to potentially host the following in the one season:

Old Firm
Edinburgh Derby
Dundee Derby
Highland Derby
Ayrshire Derby
Lanarkshire Derby
Renfrewshire Derby
Falkirk v Dunfermline

I also think having the smaller clubs play the OF only four times rather than 8 would potentially make the league closer at the top too outside the OF.

I think there would be better incentives for teams to try things out and play more youth players when there is a wider variety of quality.

Additionally I think you would get better investment in the lower ranked clubs. At the moment there is no real incentive for a team in League 2 to invest money in their squad or facilities as the rewards would only come after three promotions. Cut that down to one promotions and see what happens.
 
Bin the split , I personally find it a waste of time.
I would settle for an 16 team Prem
1st Division with 12
2nd Divison with 12
 
Shawlands_Bluenose said:
When I was writing my dissertation at Uni I had a meeting with Campbell Ogilvie while he was working at Hearts.

He told me of an idea he had for league reconstruction which I quite liked.

2 x Leagues of 12. In both leagues, teams play each other twice for 22 games. After this, the two leagues split into 3.

The top 8 of the Premier would play each again home and away to decide League title, European places etc, playing a total of 36 games.

The top 4 of the Championship would then join the bottom four of the Premiership and all of the teams in this set up revert to zero points. They play each other home and away and the top four of this section at the end of the season then start the following season in the Premier with the bottom four going into the Championship.

The third section would be the bottom 8 of the Championship who would play each other another 2 times. There wouldnt be much to play for in this section outwith survival in the Championship.
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I like it, but far too convoluted for most in Scottish football.
 
Top two leagues 20 and 22 teams. 2 divisions rather than four. Teams play eachother twice a season. Smaller clubs get to play v big teams regularly. Fan bases increase. Ticket money rises, PT teams become FT teams in time due to this. Nobody having to play the old firm 8 times a season so more interesting and more competitive for those teams. Next two tier leagues are junior sides etc who are probably better than half the league 1 and 2 sides these days anyway due to the money they're spending. Would be four really Interesting divisions and can scrap this highland lowland league pish where a team who wins the league needs a playoff to determine if they go up. Seems obvious to me but I'm no professional so either there's a good reason the SFA don't do this or they're just clueless. Something like the bottom/top 8 playing against a relegation/promotion playoff so that there's no boring league fixtures towards the end of the season with too many sides with nothing to play for. Clydebank have more away and home fans at game than Livingston 6 leagues above them FFS:D
 
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I've only ever known the Premier League/Division of 10/12 teams, but if I were redesigning Scottish football from the ground up, it'd be two divisions, with the first one a league of 18 teams.

The old Sky concern about wanting 4 Old Firm games can be dealt with by a Scottish 'charity shield' type match and having a League Cup group stage along geographical lines like the old days, which should virtually guarantee 4 Old Firm games a season.

A bigger league means not playing the same sides so often, ensures all the big sides are in the top league, potentially allows some teams to better blood in youth without the fear of relegation, and may potentially allow other teams to go on winning runs which may excite fans and grow crowds. It'd potentially be a bit boring for us as a fanbase with more home games against dross who'll just come and park the bus, but it'd be better for Scottish football as a whole.
 
16 or 18 team league but I don't think that's coming back any time. If we have to have a split then the OPs version of a 14 team league splitting after 26 games then playing home and away against the others in the top 7 meaning a 38 game season is the most fair, with no imbalance in home or away fixtures. Given this is the most sensible option it is unlikely to ever happen though.
 
Some decent suggestions.

I guess we are stuck with what we have as the people in charge are utter clowns, not thinkers or leaders but what we have is a bit silly and can be boring / repetitive.
 
Rt. Hon. Bearman said:
Do you think it's more competitive for non-Old Firm top 6 sides to have to play eight matches a season against us and the scum?

Because that is the current product we have, and...well.
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This is why you will never get a team from outwith Rangers and them winning the league ever again.

Almost impossible for a team to win at least 6 games against the old firm in a season which is what it would probably take.

If you half that number then the gap instantly closes.
 
16 teams 30 games then split 4 ways nto 4 groups of 4 and play twice again giving 36 games.
Top quarter plays for title. Bottom quarter plays to avoid relegaton. 2nd quarter plays for last Euro place. 3rd quarter plays to avoid a playoff for relegation. Every game matters. TV still gets 4 big clashes.

2nd division of 18 clubs. Regional below that
 
GF1 said:
I absolutely hate the split. Can't plan anything in advance. It is a nonsense that we don't know who, where and when we are playing in a few weeks time
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Came on to say the same thing. Not playing the same team home and away equal number of times is just illogical nonsense. Sporting integrity my erse.
 
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The most successful countries with small populations are Portugal and Holland, regularly producing top quality players. Both are 18 team leagues.
 
CLSFB said:
It’s really not, it’s exactly what should be happening.

It’s either that or back to ten, the splits a fucking joke.
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An 18 team league was shite before and would be shite again.

Instead of a 2nd game v a good hibs team today we could be facing morton instead. Sack that.
 
insanicdrunk said:
Need to make a proper play off as well, none of this 2 v 3 in the championship then they play 11th.

Two right down and 2 up and then 3rd v 3rd bottom play off.
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The English play off system, throughout their leagues, is now one of the highlights of their season. We adopted it and totally fecked it up.
 
16 teams
30 games
Grass parks
Start in July end of June
Tin pot sides can actually make a dent in European Group qualifications
Allow alcohol in stadiums
 
LoyalAndBlue82 said:
Literally anything that avoids an utterly fucking ridiculous split
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Exactly.
Teams finishing the league in 7th and 8th with more points than 6th!!
Great logic.
I know the games are a little easier in the bottom 6 but it looks ridiculous.
 
18 team league. No split. Tye split is ridiculous and unfair, to shout about sporting integrity then have an unfair split is remarkable shittery
 
Rt. Hon. Bearman said:
Top league of 18.

34 matches.

Three sides relegated.
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Like this idea.
I’d relegate 2 and have the third placed teams (third bottom of the top League and third top of the lower) play off.
Facing teams 4 times a season is pish poor. Throw in cup competitions and possible 2 more meetings positivity honking.
Home and away keeps the games more exciting and would raise more nterest in the matches.
 
I would go for 14 teams with a tip 6 and bottom 8 split. 7/7 with a team not playing on the final weekend is ridiculous.

Split after 2 rounds of fixtures. Bottom 8 get 2 extra games to make up for missing out on a 2nd trip from rangers or celtic compared to the current set up.

The only other alternative to sort the current split issue is a return to a 10 team league, but don't think anybody wants that.
 
CLSFB said:
18 team league, but sky won’t allow it.
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This winds me up that people actually believe Sky have control over our game.

Maybe if they paid a proportionate amount to the Scottish game they'd have a case, but until that happens they are irrelevant.

The product is ours, and the broadcaster can choose to buy the rights. Sky's coverage of our game has always been a shambles.

We need people in charge of the game that'll make the necessary changes swiftly to take it out of the rot. First thing that should happen is a 14 team top league with just one more pro league of 18 below it.
 
GazzaG said:
2 divisions.

Top flight of 20, playing 38 games.
A division of 22 playing 42 games.
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Just a tweak 18 /20 top flight,but split 2 divisions below North and South,Qof S going to Elgin or Peterhead going to Stranraer is nonsense in this day and age.20 top as you say gives 38 games,add top 2from Pyramid to get 12 teams each North and South work relegation and play offs from bottom two as accordingly.If Sky moan Let's play ceptic in the Glasgow Cup it would still sell out Hampden.
 
GazzaG said:
They also voted Rangers out of football.

There were zero old firm games and Sky didn't give a fùck.

2012 utterly destroys the idea that these clubs should be guaranteed visits from Rangers or the filth, it also blows away the myth that Sky insist on 4 OF games.
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Think everyone forgot about that well pointed out buddy.
 
fyo-von-bluenose said:
I've only ever known the Premier League/Division of 10/12 teams, but if I were redesigning Scottish football from the ground up, it'd be two divisions, with the first one a league of 18 teams.

The old Sky concern about wanting 4 Old Firm games can be dealt with by a Scottish 'charity shield' type match and having a League Cup group stage along geographical lines like the old days, which should virtually guarantee 4 Old Firm games a season.

A bigger league means not playing the same sides so often, ensures all the big sides are in the top league, potentially allows some teams to better blood in youth without the fear of relegation, and may potentially allow other teams to go on winning runs which may excite fans and grow crowds. It'd potentially be a bit boring for us as a fanbase with more home games against dross who'll just come and park the bus, but it'd be better for Scottish football as a whole.
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Much along my thinking but as someone pointed out rest of the clubs and SKY didn't give 2 fucks about OF games when they relegated us in 2012.
 
YorkshireBlue said:
This winds me up that people actually believe Sky have control over our game.

Maybe if they paid a proportionate amount to the Scottish game they'd have a case, but until that happens they are irrelevant.

The product is ours, and the broadcaster can choose to buy the rights. Sky's coverage of our game has always been a shambles.

We need people in charge of the game that'll make the necessary changes swiftly to take it out of the rot. First thing that should happen is a 14 team top league with just one more pro league of 18 below it.
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Of course they do. It’s madness to suggest otherwise.
M
 
I remember the reason for changing to a top ten was given as to make things more competitive. Celtic had won 9 of the previous 10 titles. What happened in the first year of this new super competitive set up? Rangers won the treble. It doesn’t matter what we do now, it will be us or the filth as champions. We may slip up in the odd cup. As for Europe, leave money aside, we’ve no chance of winning the CL and are now resigned to celebrating qualification for the last 16 as a major success. That’s where Scottish football is. As another marker, take last weeks cup final. The New Saints from Wales had 57% possession against Airdrie , who currently lie 4th in our second tier. Airdrie fans would argue that they are currently the 16th best side in Scotland, yet appear, on the basis of one game, to be on the same level as a Welsh league side.
 
14 team league and play each other 3 times.

The 3rd game destination decided by a live tv draw.

It would get the conspiracy nut jobs in a frenzy.
 
As much as I like the idea of only playing each team home and away, as it stands, we would have the present 12, including the likes of Livingston and Ross County, and adding Dundee Utd, Raith Rovers, Partick Thistle, Airdrie, Dunfermline and Ayr. Doesn’t stir the blood.
 
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