Lets not forget Gerrard's part in this mess

GodStruth

GodStruth

Well-Known Member
While we are rightly hurting, with GVB, Wilson and the board getting justified stick for their various shortcomings, lets not forget 'Stevie G's' part in this

I think we all remember how half-arsed our pre season was. Then there are the stories of Gerrard vetoing big money bids for several of our players - inevitably losing us real cash when those contracts run down. On reflection I believe Gerrard himself had checked out and was actively looking to get out. This seeped into our football

Malmo was a disaster. Going through on away goals at half time of our home leg with a man advantage then completely capitulating. A result that will cost us tens of millions. And its not all about money. Our performances have been mediocre at best domestically - while Gerrard left us with a 6 point advantage our run of fixtures had been comparatively easy compared to Celtic up to that point. It is also, historically, very difficult for a new manager to come in mid season and win a league title

Gerrard brought us 55 and for that I'll be eternally grateful. But that appears to be an anomaly and neither can it afford a free pass to his squad that have repeatedly shat the bad in big league games and major cup competitions (our record at Hampden under him and in cup ties generally is an absolute disgrace). It shouldn't be forgotten that its these same offenders that are on the verge of getting his replacement sacked

GVB deserves much of the criticism coming his way, but he is playing with Wilson and Gerrard's bottlers and environment left by Gerrard in that changing room - lets not forget that
 
He has a huge part to play losing a successful manager mid season causes chaos Gio got a bounce but after the break it went downhill fast.
 
GodStruth said:
While we are rightly hurting, with GVB, Wilson and the board getting justified stick for their various shortcomings, lets not forget 'Stevie G's' part in this

I think we all remember how half-arsed our pre season was. Then there are the stories of Gerrard vetoing big money bids for several of our players - inevitably losing us real cash when those contracts run down. On reflection I believe Gerrard himself had checked out and was actively looking to get out. This seeped into our football

Malmo was a disaster. Going through on away goals at half time of our home leg with a man advantage then completely capitulating. A result that will cost us tens of millions. And its not all about money. Our performances have been mediocre at best domestically - while Gerrard left us with a 6 point advantage our run of fixtures had been comparatively easy compared to Celtic up to that point. It is also, historically, very difficult for a new manager to come in mid season and win a league title

Gerrard brought us 55 and for that I'll be eternally grateful. But that appears to be an anomaly and neither can it afford a free pass to his squad that have repeatedly shat the bad in big league games and major cup competitions (our record at Hampden under him and in cup ties generally is an absolute disgrace). It shouldn't be forgotten that its these same offenders that are on the verge of getting his replacement sacked

GVB deserves much of the criticism coming his way, but he is playing with Wilson and Gerrard's bottlers and environment left by Gerrard in that changing room - lets not forget that
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Gio came in and had a healthy lead,Celtic hadn't beaten us in almost 3 years. I think this is all on Gio and the board.
 
sw26 said:
Both of these things aren’t solely controlled by the manager.

The Board didn’t back Gerrard in the summer and we sat still while they strengthened. That’s always suicidal in football.
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And I totally agree with your point and would love to know the collective thinking behind not releasing and refreshing as it cant be down to finance alone..
 
cooprfc said:
Gerrard was let down by the board.

It's on them. Simple as that. Complacent.
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I’ve heard that also. Promised this and that and not followed up. The malmo debacle cost him as well. But the squad should have been improved long before that match right enough.
 
Gerrard checked out after Malmo IMO.

We gambled on CL football and it didn’t materialise. In hindsight, we should been player trading last summer.

Gerrard is as much to blame as Gio but for me it’s the players that need a to take a good look at themselves. On paper, still probably the best starting 11 in the league. Mindset isint there.
 
Bobans27 said:
Back him with what? We posted a £20m+ loss… the model was player trading which for whatever reason we didn’t attempt.
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Well that’s when we should maybe have looked at the much touted “player valuations” and decided to cash in on a couple of players for maybe slightly under what we had valued at to freshen things up.

I’ll caveat that by saying I have no inside knowledge of what may or may not have been on the table but I would be surprised if there was no interest in a squad who had an unbeaten league season and did pretty well in the Europa League.
 
Completely agree OP.

Apparently the final straw was the board refusing to sanction a bid for Kevin Nisbet. I think they actually refused to sanction bis for anyone. I'm pretty sure this will have been the reason SG left.

We gave up a position of strength and let them go from a complete meltdown/timplosion to catching up and overtaking us.

Surely to fûck the board will have known that we needed to freshen up the squad so we could win the league this year. The deal was win the league this season and the financial rewards would be far greater than the outlay, but we've not paid for a player for a year and a half.

The signing of Diallo and Ramsey just shows how bad things are.

I don't see much changing in the near future. Gio and the staff will be expected to bring young players through and get them sold on.

SG may have played a part in this but I'm more likely to look for answers from the board.
 
gogs60 said:
Said pretty much the same to my old man last night and still feel there should have been a shake up after 55 was won, meaning players released and new brought in..
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Gerrard and a lot of those players seemed to think it was job done after the league was won. The way we approached the slavia game last season left a lot to be desired, not one day celebrating but a whole weekend on the piss before a massively important game. And it showed. Performances in the league were pretty dire also for the rest of the season, old firm games apart, and a sort of malaise seemed to set in.

We carried this into the new season with very much a half arsed attitude to pre season and set ourselves up nicely for the debacle against malmo. Leading up to the game and the manager when asked what continent our best striker was on apparently "didnt know" . The 2nd game itself was one of the worst collapses and examples of game management that ive seen from any Rangers team and manager. From that point the manager seemed to lose any interest in the job and the rest is history.
 
We should have been out of sight while they struggled in the first few months.

Due to dropping stupid points we were kept at arms length despite beating them.

We should have been at least a dozen points clear which they would never have came back from.
 
Kylegib said:
Gio came in and had a healthy lead,Celtic hadn't beaten us in almost 3 years. I think this is all on Gio and the board.
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But he came in with a healthy lead despite our team playing dreadfully all season, because the scum hadn’t hit form. I have no doubt this squad of players would have thrown the lead under Gerrard or any other manager. It’s what they have done every time they are under pressure.
 
Bobans27 said:
Back him with what? We posted a £20m+ loss… the model was player trading which for whatever reason we didn’t attempt.
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The trading model was refused by Gerrard. He refused to sell Patterson, Goldson and a third that is meant to be either Kamara or Aribo.

His vision was that he would get the CL money and keep everyone and buy more. The board and Wilson should have never allowed it, especially given he walked months later.
 
He couldn’t get us through a very winnable path to the CL groups. A gift of a draw tbh and should’ve been well doable with the squad he had.

He wanted his squad mainstays kept. They were kept. He’d have known fine well funding for the kind of players he wanted on top of that was contingent on CL groups qualification.

Malmo was a disaster and lies with him. It set the tone for the whole season.
 
There is collective responsibility yes but the fact is we have a backline thar can't keep stray dugs out of a midden and a goalkeeper who won't move off his line at a set piece.
 
cooprfc said:
Gerrard was let down by the board.

It's on them. Simple as that. Complacent.
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Nah, he had the tools to get that team through the champions league qualifiers. And he blew it big time. He wouldve been backed with money if he had held up his end of the bargain but he didnt.
The board went by his wishes and kept the squad intact, they have a lot of things to answer for but letting Gerrard down aint one of them.
 
Gerrard and Park had no relationship by the end.

And Kent has a release clause Leeds didn’t meet so Gerrard would’ve had no say in the bid if they’d matched it.

He thought he was getting funds. This didn’t materialise. He left us in a far better position than we now find ourselves.
 
GeeGee said:
He couldn’t get us through a very winnable path to the CL groups. A gift of a draw tbh and should’ve been well doable with the squad he had.

He wanted his squad mainstays kept. They were kept. He’d have known fine well funding for the kind of players he wanted on top of that was contingent on CL groups qualification.

Malmo was a disaster and lies with him. It set the tone for the whole season.
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100% mate, i posted before i read yours, wouldnt have bothered if i had cos youve nailed it there.
 
Manager asked to win a league against a side spending £20+ million while all his targets are vetoed and he’s left with bargain basement junk
He’s then offered a job with real money, closer to home and realistic expectations.

I don’t blame him for leaving.
 
The board and our recruitment let Gerrard down. We haven’t improved in 3 windows.

Gerrard wouldn’t have took this side to Parkhead and be embarrassed nor would he have allowed such a turnover in points, Gio is to blame for that and looks out his depth.
 
Vidmar said:
Gerrard and Park had no relationship by the end.

And Kent has a release clause Leeds didn’t meet so Gerrard would’ve had no say in the bid if they’d matched it.

He thought he was getting funds. This didn’t materialise. He left us in a far better position than we now find ourselves.
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He wouldve been given funds if he hadnt made a complete cuunt of qualifying for the champions league. Simple.
 
Board should have allowed McGregor, David and Defoe to leave us on a high last summer and retire. By Barisic’s tearful “farewell” it was clear he had checked out and wanted to go so he should have been sold. I said at the time Kamara was the one player with value we could have replaced quite easily. Even without an Aribo or a Kent that’s two players we could have got circa £10m each for that we will be lucky to get a couple of million now. Plus 3 huge earners of the pay check. That should have been invested fully into the squad with the deal “qualify for Champions League or we need to sell another couple of players”. If we had gone out against Malmö even then with a better team then Kent, Aribo, Hagi etc are sold to balance the books.

As it was we kept players who were past it and didn’t want to be there, and we brought in free squad players.
 
Gerrard for the full season would not have secured the title - he was struggling both at home and abroad with this squad (it had gone as far as it could and he knew it I think).

Credit to Gio for our European efforts (wasn't going to happen with SG) but our poor domestic form continued (as much to do with the players as either of the two managers).

Celtic dropped 11 out of their first 21 points but pretty much steadied their ship since beating the jobbers with the exception of St. Mirren schoolboys. Meanwhile we were shipping points to Dundee Utd, Hearts , Motherwell and Aberdeen before the end of October and were lucky to escape with full points in other games during this period, notably at Dens Park in an utterly woeful performance.

It never really got much better if we are honest, under either manager.

Player clear out required - I think Gerrard knew that and Van Bronckhorst certainly knows it. Let's hope the Board actually know that and is preparing for it.

GVB will get at least next season with a squad that now needs to be of his own making. Whether he can take us forward or not only time will tell but he deserves to be given the opportunity to do so.
 
Vidmar said:
But that wasn’t the discussion he had with the Board in the summer.
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What was the discussion then? I bet part of it was he wanted to keep the squad who won the league together. The board went by his wishes there. I also bet any assurance of funds would have came with the proviso of champions league qualification. It would have to of. He couldnt hold up his end of the bargain.
 
He left us 6 points clear of them. I think we would have won the league under Gerrard but would have went out of Europe by now.
 
stoogie said:
What was the discussion then? I bet part of it was he wanted to keep the squad who won the league together. The board went by his wishes there. I also bet any assurance of funds would have came with the proviso of champions league qualification. It would have to of. He couldnt hold up his end of the bargain.
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He was told he’d have money to improve the XI. The goalposts moved. He should still have had enough to get by Malmo and Ludogrets but if your bosses mislead you, always gonna get annoyed.
 
Vidmar said:
He was told he’d have money to improve the XI. The goalposts moved. He should still have had enough to get by Malmo and Ludogrets but if your bosses mislead you, always gonna get annoyed.
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Im sorry mate, im not buying it. There is no way the board couldve given him any such assurance without the champions league money. To improve the Xl wouldve required a fair wedge that we were never gonna spend without the champions league. Gerrard is not a fool, he mustve known that.
 
stoogie said:
Im sorry mate, im not buying it. There is no way the board couldve given him any such assurance without the champions league money. To improve the Xl wouldve required a fair wedge that we were never gonna spend without the champions league. Gerrard is not a fool, he mustve known that.
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Watch all the interviews the day we won 55 Park is one of them and he says “we have to build on this and we can’t sit still”
Steven Gerrard on the day we got the trophy says “this is just the beginning we now have to build on this”
The board gambled on reaching the champions league and Celtic not coming back so quick
 
The disaster of Malmo can’t be overstated. It was AEK Athens 94 stuff.

Get into the CL groups and for me it’s a different season. Everyone gets a bounce - players get the exposure, genuine competition to play in those games, etc. And that’s before you get on to the financial bounce.

Not getting into the CL I think pulled the rug out from under a lot of people. Management and players alike looked around and saw a long season of same again against the likes of Motherwell, Hibs et al and a lot just didn’t have the same application.
 
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dublinbluenose said:
Watch all the interviews the day we won 55 Park is one of them and he says “we have to build on this and we can’t sit still”
Steven Gerrard on the day we got the trophy says “this is just the beginning we now have to build on this”
The board gambled on reaching the champions league and Celtic not coming back so quick
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Yea good points. I also think the board and Gerrard reckoned Celtic would be a shambles this season and gambled a bit on that . Instead its us that have been a shambles
 
He left Gio an open goal - a 4 point lead and the best squad in the country.

The blame lies at Gio's door.

Europe aside, after the initial new manager bounce we have been dreadful for months now.
 
GodStruth said:
Yea good points. I also think the board and Gerrard reckoned Celtic would be a shambles this season and gambled a bit on that . Instead its us that have been a shambles
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We’re the same this season as Celtic were last season underLennon, their board thought they were strong enough, brought in a few loan players who flopped, and they struggled big style, fast forward and we have done the same thing, and it’s handing them a treble. Our board wouldn’t or couldn’t spend money, Gerard wouldn’t sell then buggered off, the board appointed Gio despite a mixed managerial history, and again no money spent for the third consecutive window, brining in loans and freebies, we are a jaded side that desperately needed freshening up and the board failed us.
 
Bobans27 said:
Gerrard checked out after Malmo IMO.

We gambled on CL football and it didn’t materialise. In hindsight, we should been player trading last summer
Gerrard is as much to blame as Gio but for me it’s the players that need a to take a good look at themselves. On paper, still probably the best starting 11 in the league. Mindset isint there.
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Your 2nd last sentence is a joke surely.
 
stoogie said:
What was the discussion then? I bet part of it was he wanted to keep the squad who won the league together. The board went by his wishes there. I also bet any assurance of funds would have came with the proviso of champions league qualification. It would have to of. He couldnt hold up his end of the bargain.
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He’d just lifted the trophy and gave an interview where he said we can expect an exciting summer.
He was clearly given assurances that didn’t come to fruition leading to his falling out with members of the board and ultimately him leaving for a team who would give him funds
 
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