Lets not forget Gerrard's part in this mess

I honestly think we were doomed to 2nd place the minute he walked out the door. These were his players and expecting a new manager to get the best out of them was pretty optimistic.

Not to mention the lift it will have given Celtic. As much as they ridiculed him for the 1 in 9 trophies pish, deep down they knew he was the guy that stopped their holy grail and they also knew that he had the beating of them 90% of the time. Heck, he beat them from his sofa in August. Massive psychological lift for their new management team and their squad. Suddenly their manager was now on an even keel with the opposition manager in terms of their experience of football management in Glasgow!

He left us high and dry and knowing how crucial this season was in terms of the short and long term finances of both ourselves and our biggest rivals, I will never forgive him for that.
 
steve1873 said:
I honestly think we were doomed to 2nd place the minute he walked out the door. These were his players and expecting a new manager to get the best out of them was pretty optimistic.

Not to mention the lift it will have given Celtic. As much as they ridiculed him for the 1 in 9 trophies pish, deep down they knew he was the guy that stopped their holy grail and they also knew that he had the beating of them 90% of the time. Heck, he beat them from his sofa in August.

He left us high and dry and knowing how crucial this season was in terms of the short and long term finances of both ourselves and our biggest rivals, I will never forgive him for that.
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Very good point

Fans underestimate the effect of changing manager mid season, especially when the players have been moulded to the ethics of that ex manager
 
GodStruth said:
Very good point

Fans underestimate the effect of changing manager mid season, especially when the players have been moulded to the ethics of that ex manager
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And that's not even hindsight speaking. I had this wee voice in back of my head telling me that since November 10th last year when the story broke about him leaving. And sadly, that has come to fruition.
 
Artful Dodger said:
I’ve heard that also. Promised this and that and not followed up. The malmo debacle cost him as well. But the squad should have been improved long before that match right enough.
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The beginning of the end for him. I would imagine funds would've been available had he got us through that tie. We lost to 10 men, which is ultimately on him.
 
Gerrard did the dirty on us by walking out at the time he did however this capitulation in the league is on the current manager and I'd argue equally if not more on the players who have not a tried a leg at times in the league.
 
Zwingli'sSausages said:
The beginning of the end for him. I would imagine funds would've been available had he got us through that tie. We lost to 10 men, which is ultimately on him.
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So as manager do you think he'd have been happy not getting the backing to strengthen the team after winning the league and performing well in Europe. We should have beaten a 10 man Malmo team however we should've freshened up the squad to give us a better chance of qualification and the fact we didn't is on the board not Gerrard or Gio.
 
Kylegib said:
So as manager do you think he'd have been happy not getting the backing to strengthen the team after winning the league and performing well in Europe. We should have beaten a 10 man Malmo team however we should've freshened up the squad to give us a better chance of qualification and the fact we didn't is on the board not Gerrard or Gio.
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Probably yeah, but I can also see the thinking behind it from the board level. We can't continue making losses like that. However, everyone could see we needed some first 11 investment, so I can understand his frustration.
 
TheMish said:
Who cares TBH,

football teams are supposed to lose managers, deal with turbulence, coaches are supposed to come in circumstance that aren't ideal,

these are just football things, nothing more, nothing less.
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You have a point, however such is our squad make up we dont have a lot of players in it who are regulars who will be content to be here for much longer

Goldson 4 years
Kent 4 years
Morelos 5 years
Aribo 3 years
Barisic 4 year
Kamara 3.5 years

All key players who are at the end of their time at this club and looking for the next destination in their career. Pretty clear that for many of them they have already mentally checked out.

McGregor
Davis
Defoe
Arfield

All at the end of their time with us and football in general. McGregor and Davis have been huge players for us and their contributions have went from player of the year to absolute dugshite over the summer and through this season.

Then we have

Jack
Helander
Balogun
Roofe

Another 4 key players for us last season who have been unreliable for fitness all season.

That leaves us with

Tavernier
Bassey
Lundstram
Sakala
Hagi

5 players really that are likely to still be with us longer term and interested in giving g their all in every game. And of them Hagi is injured, Lundstram took ages to get up to speed and Sakala is inconsistent at best and woeful at worst. The only two players this season who have been consistently good and appear to want to be here are Tavernier and Bassey.

The rest in the squad aren't really worth mentioning.

The squad had been allowed to become bloated as Gerrard liked to have a huge squad. Its been grossly mismanaged and due to this the majority of managers coming in would have struggled with it. Too many players already checked out or passed it
 
Bigbluebear said:
You have a point, however such is our squad make up we dont have a lot of players in it who are regulars who will be content to be here for much longer

Goldson 4 years
Kent 4 years
Morelos 5 years
Aribo 3 years
Barisic 4 year
Kamara 3.5 years

All key players who are at the end of their time at this club and looking for the next destination in their career. Pretty clear that for many of them they have already mentally checked out.

McGregor
Davis
Defoe
Arfield

All at the end of their time with us and football in general. McGregor and Davis have been huge players for us and their contributions have went from player of the year to absolute dugshite over the summer and through this season.

Then we have

Jack
Helander
Balogun
Roofe

Another 4 key players for us last season who have been unreliable for fitness all season.

That leaves us with

Tavernier
Bassey
Lundstram
Sakala
Hagi

5 players really that are likely to still be with us longer term and interested in giving g their all in every game. And of them Hagi is injured, Lundstram took ages to get up to speed and Sakala is inconsistent at best and woeful at worst. The only two players this season who have been consistently good and appear to want to be here are Tavernier and Bassey.

The rest in the squad aren't really worth mentioning.

The squad had been allowed to become bloated as Gerrard liked to have a huge squad. Its been grossly mismanaged and due to this the majority of managers coming in would have struggled with it. Too many players already checked out or passed it
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Mate I think you’re a decent poster but the fact you’ve not critiqued Gio in that big monologue is a bit off.
 
Bigbluebear said:
You have a point, however such is our squad make up we dont have a lot of players in it who are regulars who will be content to be here for much longer

Goldson 4 years
Kent 4 years
Morelos 5 years
Aribo 3 years
Barisic 4 year
Kamara 3.5 years

All key players who are at the end of their time at this club and looking for the next destination in their career. Pretty clear that for many of them they have already mentally checked out.

McGregor
Davis
Defoe
Arfield

All at the end of their time with us and football in general. McGregor and Davis have been huge players for us and their contributions have went from player of the year to absolute dugshite over the summer and through this season.

Then we have

Jack
Helander
Balogun
Roofe

Another 4 key players for us last season who have been unreliable for fitness all season.

That leaves us with

Tavernier
Bassey
Lundstram
Sakala
Hagi

5 players really that are likely to still be with us longer term and interested in giving g their all in every game. And of them Hagi is injured, Lundstram took ages to get up to speed and Sakala is inconsistent at best and woeful at worst. The only two players this season who have been consistently good and appear to want to be here are Tavernier and Bassey.

The rest in the squad aren't really worth mentioning.

The squad had been allowed to become bloated as Gerrard liked to have a huge squad. Its been grossly mismanaged and due to this the majority of managers coming in would have struggled with it. Too many players already checked out or passed it
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I'm not entirely convinced most of that is a bad thing TBH.

Gerrard has left plenty of sellable assets for a new manager to generate funds, players who were with him during his time and the contract cycle was coming to an end around about the same time as his freeing up wages for a new manager.

There is a load of upside for any manager coming in.

The squad as it is still has it in them to beat a Dortmund away, let's not act like it's a miracle to then expect they beat Ross County away
 
TheMish said:
I'm not entirely convinced most of that is a bad thing TBH.

Gerrard has left plenty of sellable assets for a new manager to generate funds, players who were with him during his time and the contract cycle was coming to an end around about the same time as his freeing up wages for a new manager.

There is a load of upside for any manager coming in.

The squad as it is still has it in them to beat a Dortmund away, let's not act like it's a miracle to then expect they beat Ross County away
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I was referring to your point about reinvigorating the squad.

We got a brief bump pre winter break but since then they have all reverted back to before Gio came in.
 
Bigbluebear said:
I was referring to your point about reinvigorating the squad.

We got a brief bump pre winter break but since then they have all reverted back to before Gio came in.
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The coaches dealing with circumstance that aren't ideal part?

Grudged as I am to say this but Lennon managed it with a squad in not to dissimilar circumstances and I mean we have all seen how good a coach and people manager he is.
 
Kylegib said:
Gio came in and had a healthy lead,Celtic hadn't beaten us in almost 3 years. I think this is all on Gio and the board.
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Same here. Yeah we weren't playing well at the start of the season but Gerrard had us comfortably at the top.

Gerrard was so much better for us than Gio appears to be. We had progress season on season under him.
 
GeeGee said:
The disaster of Malmo can’t be overstated. It was AEK Athens 94 stuff.

Get into the CL groups and for me it’s a different season. Everyone gets a bounce - players get the exposure, genuine competition to play in those games, etc. And that’s before you get on to the financial bounce.

Not getting into the CL I think pulled the rug out from under a lot of people. Management and players alike looked around and saw a long season of same again against the likes of Motherwell, Hibs et al and a lot just didn’t have the same application.
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While Malmo was really poor it wasn't unprecedented. Clubs slip up in knock out ties regularly and the amount of qualifiers we played we were bound to lose one at some point. Teams a lot better than us have fallen to opposition they should have beat.
 
TheMish said:
The coaches dealing with circumstance that aren't ideal part?

Grudged as I am to say this but Lennon managed it with a squad in not to dissimilar circumstances and I mean we have all seen how good a coach and people manager he is.
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He didn't manage anything last season with a squad in similar circumstances, did he?
 
Bigbluebear said:
He didn't manage anything last season with a squad in similar circumstances, did he?
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18/19

He took over a squad who showed themselves to be capable of being checked out, players getting old, players on deals expiring - any kind of football excuse that can be made.

The players, for that spell anyway though did still play for him.

The situation Gio took over in isn't some freak scenario that he and he only has ever had to deal with, it is just football things really
 
Long before SG left we were suffering from quite a few issues we still have now

We've dominated possession yet been unable to convert superiority into goals for a few seasons now

I thought when Gio first arrived there were signs he could be a lot more flexible with tactics & formations that would help improve our predicability
Regrettably our staleness is still very evident

I'm not for a minute going to blame Gio over SG - or vice versa -
But to lay the blame on one only isn't accurate either

To make any lasting, long term & substantial changes to our weaknesses & shortcomings - is obviously going to take longer than Gio has had so far
I just hope we don't suffer too much more damage meantime
 
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When you deliver the most coveted title in the club's entire history and are not backed for the resulting Champions League campaign you are going to be seriously disillusioned.



That's what happened with Gerrard imo. In fairness this might not be the whole story but I believe it was a hugely significant factor. His stock was high and he knew he wouldn't be short of offers the minute he gave the nod.
 
I know we had a lead when he left but the performances were not as encouraging as that suggests.

Some of the same issues existed then that we're annoyed about now, mainly the strange approach we had towards game management.

There were numerous occasions in the first half of the season where we were moaning about the team being unable to string two decent halves of football together.

We had that ridiculous run of games where we came out at walking pace and conceded an early goal. It took that for the players to wake up and start playing like they should.

The biggest difference for me is that in the first half of the season there was a greater sense that we could dig the result out, I don't have the same faith now. Probably a combination of the manager and the players individually dropping their levels
 
I was a big supporter of Gerrard but that Malmo tie was unforgivable. With all that was at stake, we should have been flying out the traps but instead we turn in 2 of the most insipid, lacklustre performances imaginable. Set the tone for the remainder of his tenure.
 
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