Lionel Messi

carlosapicella said:
In your eyes you silly boy maybe,but the wee chunt HAS never won a world cup medal so you go back and toss yourself all over him,hope it makes you happy
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He hasn't but he's scored more and won more trophies than those icons you think were better, even though they played in a generation where the standard wasn't as great overall as it has been in recent years when Messi n Ronaldo dominated. Now toddle off.
 
Only reason people say Pele is because he won world cups but he had a much better team round him, prime evidence being the fact that they won in 62 when he got injured in the second match. Detractors damn Messi for similar reasons (only as good because he was in strong Barcelona side)

Only reason people say Maradonna is because he won 86 World Cup and Napoli the league, but at best that means he had a greater peak few years (arguable) but unarguably he did not have the longevity of brilliance of Messi (Or Ronaldo)

Messi has it all bar a World Cup and performances in another top league but he has destroyed teams from every other top league in the Champions league. People become numb to his brilliance because it has happened over so long a period that it just becomes the norm.
 
@carlosapicella seconds before he replies

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Sir Walter’s Warriors said:
Only reason people say Pele is because he won world cups but he had a much better team round him, prime evidence being the fact that they won in 62 when he got injured in the second match. Detractors damn Messi for similar reasons (only as good because he was in strong Barcelona side)

Only reason people say Maradonna is because he won 86 World Cup and Napoli the league, but at best that means he had a greater peak few years (arguable) but unarguably he did not have the longevity of brilliance of Messi (Or Ronaldo)

Messi has it all bar a World Cup and performances in another top league but he has destroyed teams from every other top league in the Champions league. People become numb to his brilliance because it has happened over so long a period that it just becomes the norm.
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Who cares, they’re all great footballers that we’re privileged to have seen.
 
CF4 said:
He hasn't but he's scored more and won more trophies than those icons you think were better, even though they played in a generation where the standard wasn't as great overall as it has been in recent years when Messi n Ronaldo dominated. Now toddle off.
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Pardon me whom have I mentioned,you get yourself to bed or stop snorting or drinking
 
RangersLad1983 said:
Pele would not have been mentioned without Taostao a great Brazilian midfielder and Garrincha who made a lot of Pele's goals,by the same token Messi who I still say was the best would not have been without the great Iniesta ,these players were as good as the men who fed them.ive seen them all but like all on here just my opinion.
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You forgot the most important player and unsung hero in that team Clodoaldo from 1970
 
I watch him play and think "I could do that. He makes it look so simple. Just alter your direction to the opposite side of the opposition player as you get to him when you're running towards him when you've got the ball". Then I try it and realise it's just not like that at all.
 
Bluebeard said:
Luck to win three world cups, a tournament that is only played every four years.

Haha ffs B-D
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You realise that one of his world cups (1962) he was injured in the second match so he had basically no involvement in winning that one, how is that one anything but lucky? So effectively he has 2, absolutely amazing achievement still, but stating that he has 3 as a reason he is the best player of all time is a bit misleading.
 
Sir Walter’s Warriors said:
Only reason people say Pele is because he won world cups but he had a much better team round him, prime evidence being the fact that they won in 62 when he got injured in the second match. Detractors damn Messi for similar reasons (only as good because he was in strong Barcelona side)

Only reason people say Maradonna is because he won 86 World Cup and Napoli the league, but at best that means he had a greater peak few years (arguable) but unarguably he did not have the longevity of brilliance of Messi (Or Ronaldo)

Messi has it all bar a World Cup and performances in another top league but he has destroyed teams from every other top league in the Champions league. People become numb to his brilliance because it has happened over so long a period that it just becomes the norm.
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You've just destroyed your argument as regards Maradona in relation to Messi. Maradona,for all his faults as a person was the main person in 1986 when Argentina won the trophy. Without him they would never have won it. As great as Messi is and he is one of the greatest ever, he has at all times with Barcelona had tremendous players alongside him, that's indisputable. However Maradona carried the 1986 to the world cup victory despite his social problems that had yet to surface. Messi is great,more dedicated than Maradona but ability wise Maradona just wins although there's not a t between them
 
BallsBlue said:
Messi scored more in 3 seasons than Maradona did in his whole career......just saying
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And pele scored over 1200 career goals to Messi 800 odd. Both amazing but many of those by both scored against cannon fodder compared to Maradona in their respective careers. Maradona in particular played at a time where goals were at a premium and defensive football was the order of the day.

It’s all relative.
 
Johansen said:
You've just destroyed your argument as regards Maradona in relation to Messi. Maradona,for all his faults as a person was the main person in 1986 when Argentina won the trophy. Without him they would never have won it. As great as Messi is and he is one of the greatest ever, he has at all times with Barcelona had tremendous players alongside him, that's indisputable. However Maradona carried the 1986 to the world cup victory despite his social problems that had yet to surface. Messi is great,more dedicated than Maradona but ability wise Maradona just wins although there's not a t between them
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Re Maradona it’s fair for anyone to argue that he subjectively had a greater peak than Messi and if all you care about is short term peak ability then this debate changes and you can include players such as Ronaldinho or Best. However, one of the main arguments Messi has is his indisputable brilliance over the best part of two decades.
 
Amazing that he is still doing this at thirty-five and with as many games in his legs as he has played for club and country.
 
Bluebeard said:
And pele scored over 1200 career goals to Messi 800 odd. Both amazing but many of those by both scored against cannon fodder compared to Maradona in their respective careers. Maradona in particular played at a time where goals were at a premium and defensive football was the order of the day.

It’s all relative.
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Do your research pal
 
Bluebeard said:
And pele scored over 1200 career goals to Messi 800 odd. Both amazing but many of those by both scored against cannon fodder compared to Maradona in their respective careers. Maradona in particular played at a time where goals were at a premium and defensive football was the order of the day.

It’s all relative.
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I'm sure one of Pele's coaches said that Pele was his best player in every position on the pitch, including in goals.
 
Hillheadbear said:
So did Johann Cruyf. They even credited him with creating a style of football - 'total football' - in his time.

Also, football has evolved over the years building on what went before. As we can't take a great player from yesteryear and plonk them down in today's game, it's impossible to really compare and contrast. We can only really go by what they did in their time.
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Cruyff never invented total football.
 
Bluebeard said:
And pele scored over 1200 career goals to Messi 800 odd. Both amazing but many of those by both scored against cannon fodder compared to Maradona in their respective careers. Maradona in particular played at a time where goals were at a premium and defensive football was the order of the day.

It’s all relative.
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Bluebeard said:
And pele scored over 1200 career goals to Messi 800 odd. Both amazing but many of those by both scored against cannon fodder compared to Maradona in their respective careers. Maradona in particular played at a time where goals were at a premium and defensive football was the order of the day.

It’s all relative.
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Maradona only scored 108 goals while playing in europe for many years.
 
BallsBlue said:
Maradona only scored 108 goals while playing in europe for many years.
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Yeh as I said at a time where defensive football was at its peak and in serie A a 0-0 or 1-0 was the norm rather than the exception.

He wasn’t in a world class Barcelona side throwing 6 and 7 at teams every week in the lower reaches of the Spanish league. His short spell at Barcelona he was butchered.

We can go on all day , financially I’ll be better off if Messi could somehow get the monkey off his back this time his last chance but I think most observers agree it’s just never going to happen.

Feel for him but Diego casts a shadow nobody except pele can match.
 
Sir Walter’s Warriors said:
If that number is true then Messi has scored more in the Champions League alone than Maradona scored in all competitions in Europe.
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Maradona scored 259 career goals and played around half the number of matches Messi has played. During a time where defensive, brutal football was king. Before the time where guys were playing 70 odd matches a season regularly.
 
M
Bluebeard said:
Maradona scored 259 career goals and played around half the number of matches Messi has played. During a time where defensive, brutal football was king. Before the time where guys were playing 70 odd matches a season regularly.
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Defensive football was king, what an absolute crock of shite. These days every bastarding team lesser than the opposing team is set up to contain, nearly everyone is an athlete, Maradona may have had not had it all his own way in this era.


Good try though Magic DeBoer.
 
Bigbluebeard said:
M

Defensive football was king, what an absolute crock of shite. These days every bastarding team lesser than the opposing team is set up to contain, nearly everyone is an athlete, Maradona may have had not had it all his own way in this era.


Good try though Magic DeBoer.
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What a strange post. Check your facts, there are far more goals scored per game across all major leagues now and in the last 20 years than there were in the previous 20.

Clueless.
 
Bluebeard said:
Maradona scored 259 career goals and played around half the number of matches Messi has played. During a time where defensive, brutal football was king. Before the time where guys were playing 70 odd matches a season regularly.
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Messi has scored 129 goals in 156 Champions League games with 40 assists. It’s not the number its the ratio. It is far and above anything Maradona ever came close to producng. Yes it was harder to score when Maradona played. But most of his goals came in the Argentinian league was that harder to score in than the modern day Champions league?
 
Sir Walter’s Warriors said:
Messi has scored 129 goals in 156 Champions League games with 40 assists. It’s not the number its the ratio. It is far and above anything Maradona ever came close to producng. Yes it was harder to score when Maradona played. But most of his goals came in the Argentinian league was that harder to score in than the modern day Champions league?
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It’s a shame he will never win the World Cup. To think Pele got his hands on it 3 times, incredible.
 
Messi unfortunate he plays in a time when European teams are just too strong in international football. Must be considered an equal to Pele and Maradona in my book.
 
tonforty said:
Messi unfortunate he plays in a time when European teams are just too strong in international football. Must be considered an equal to Pele and Maradona in my book.
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If he had chosen to instead play for Spain and therefore been part of the team that won the 2008-2010-2012 treble of Euros, World Cup, Euros would there even be a debate as to whether he was the best?
 
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