Loan System vs Youth Academy

[Necro]

This isn't a thread to suggest we should never use the loan market again, there will be no brainers like Davis and Defoe again and there will be gems that we otherwise couldn't afford.

My problem is that Kent aside, we have yet to bring someone in that has really deserved the opportunity.

Can anyone honestly say that someone like Kai Kennedy would offer less than Ojo? I hate to mention them but they're a lot better at actually giving youth players game time, our academy did essentially start again from scratch but it is now rated as the best in the country and we definitely have players that can offer something to the squad.

Guys like King and Ojo are blocking pathways into the squad and they'll be on more money too.

 

[AdiCR2]

Ojo is miles ahead of anything we have in the youth dept just now. That's why he plays and the others don't!

He's having a bad run of games but that's down to unable to cope with the pressure, not ability.

 

[Necro]

Ojo is miles ahead of anything we have in the youth dept just now. That's why he plays and the others don't!

He's having a bad run of games but that's down to unable to cope with the pressure, not ability.

If that's the case why has he failed to come close to being as impressive as Middelton was last season for example?

How does persisting with him for a season benefit Rangers more than giving game time to a youth player?

 

[yarrumdavid01]

If we can't play a youth with our superior players when compared to lesser opposition, think we can chuck it. Our mistreatment of youths is criminal.

 

[Coop1872]

Man Utd have had at least one homegrown player in their team for 4000 odd games. A remarkable statistic.

 

[Korova Milk Bar]

If we can't play a youth with our superior players when compared to lesser opposition, think we can chuck it. Our mistreatment of youths is criminal.

The thing is what people don’t understand is that the likes of Kai Kennedy are not developed to the extent of Ojo is and there’s a big difference in age... It’s down to people not waiting, we’ll see more youth players in the Stranraer game.

 

[AdiCR2]

If that's the case why has he failed to come close to being as impressive as Middelton was last season for example?

How does persisting with him for a season benefit Rangers more than giving game time to a youth player?

Middleton was very poor second half of last season and was nowhere near ready for the first team. Ojo is similar to a lot of loan players that come to us... Technically superb but not got the bollocks to knuckle down and get the dirty work done. He now has the crowd on his back which will be very difficult to shift. It's his own fault.

As for the youth team, if they ain't ready then Ibrox will spit them up and chew them out over the next few months.

 

[Monty_greenock34]

The thing is what people don’t understand is that the likes of Kai Kennedy are not developed to the extent of Ojo is and there’s a big difference in age... It’s down to people not waiting, we’ll see more youth players in the Stranraer game.

That's it, could you imagine these wee boys up against the likes of ikpeazu and berra and every other hammer thrower.

We are 2 behind and every game is a cup final to the teams we play, we need to stand up to the physicality, the time will come for youth when the time is right imo.

 

[AdiCR2]

If we can't play a youth with our superior players when compared to lesser opposition, think we can chuck it. Our mistreatment of youths is criminal.

What is criminal about it? They simply ain't ready. Look at McCrorie, he was lauded as Beckenbauer at CH. Then dembele tore him a new one and went to CM and is now playing RB for Portsmouth. All this is brilliant for his development but he wouldn't get it at Ibrox. We don't have the scope to give these guys 30/40 games a season.

 

[WinkieWATP]

That's it, could you imagine these wee boys up against the likes of ikpeazu and berra and every other hammer thrower.

We are 2 behind and every game is a cup final to the teams we play, we need to stand up to the physicality, the time will come for youth when the time is right imo.

They have did alright against teams in that Carmel Wafer cup where they will have came up against physical players.

 

[Necro]

That's it, could you imagine these wee boys up against the likes of ikpeazu and berra and every other hammer thrower.

We are 2 behind and every game is a cup final to the teams we play, we need to stand up to the physicality, the time will come for youth when the time is right imo.

They will never develop without the expeirence of that, this excuse is tired.

 

[yarrumdavid01]

They have youths coming through, look at the lad Johnstone. We would much rather develop someone else's youths than our own.

I'll repeat if we can't play even 1 youngster in our 11 against lesser teams what's the point otherwise.

 

[Monty_greenock34]

They will never develop without the expeirence of that, this excuse is tired.

That's why being loaned out eventually is right option before being thrown in to a pressure cooker.

The pressure is massive right now and Gerrard is being cautious and rightly so.

 

[D-Von]

That's it, could you imagine these wee boys up against the likes of ikpeazu and berra and every other hammer thrower.

We are 2 behind and every game is a cup final to the teams we play, we need to stand up to the physicality, the time will come for youth when the time is right imo.

Utter bullshit when every other team in the league is playing their youngsters against these players

 

[D-Von]

Middleton was very poor second half of last season and was nowhere near ready for the first team. Ojo is similar to a lot of loan players that come to us... Technically superb but not got the bollocks to knuckle down and get the dirty work done. He now has the crowd on his back which will be very difficult to shift. It's his own fault.

As for the youth team, if they ain't ready then Ibrox will spit them up and chew them out over the next few months.

Ojo isn’t superb technically at all

 

[Monty_greenock34]

They have did alright against teams in that Carmel Wafer cup where they will have came up against physical players.

Doing alright and then getting thrown in to big pressure 50,000 a week games is night and day though, cautious approach to youth at this stage is needed to protect them and to make sure they are 100% ready.

 

[Monty_greenock34]

Utter bullshit when every other team in the league is playing their youngsters against these players

We ain't every other team and these wee teams don't have the choice, which one of these youngsters you see would get into our team outwith the mentally challengeds??? None

 

[D-Von]

We ain't every other team and these wee teams don't have the choice, which one of these youngsters you see would get into our team outwith the mentally challengeds??? None

That’s not the point though. You’re making out as if playing against Berra and Ikpeazu is a legitimate excuse for not playing youngsters

I don’t really care about other teams youngsters. But the fact every team in the country is playing youth shows it’s a Rangers problem and not a Scottish problem

 

[BigJC]

Like most things there is a compromise here. I'd rather show a pathway to the senior team for the youths / 2nd string but they have to be good enough. What have Polster and Andy King provided to us that one of the youths couldn't have done? I like the way Defoe has mentored Buff. See no reason why we can't have half a dozen similar relationships with likes of say Davis, Jack, Tav etc. Id rather have a development player come one for last 5 or 10 mins in a game we are up 2/0 then someone that is clearing not going to be a first teamer. Otherwise the youth teams and development squads are only being developed to sell. Look a how SG has improved Jack , showing him how to be brave, improving his standards. That can and should be replicated.

 

[Eagle Keeper]

The way I see it is just like the first team the youth department has suffered over the last number of years due to our 2012 woes. It has been rebuilt and is showing really promising signs of bearing fruit in the near future. I think it’s just going to take another year or two before we see the permanent benefits for the first team. I have no doubts that we will though. Patience is key.

 

[SOB-WATP]

Our youths are winning just about every competition going yet never seem to get a sniff.

It's the one disappointment I have with Gerrard so far.

Guys like Halliday, who clearly has no future here, fill the bench every week while our youths are nowhere to be seen.

There have been plenty opportunities this season to introduce a couple from the bench but their not in the squad to begin with.

I'm getting fed up with hearing how well the young boys are doing, it's time the management team put a bit of faith in them.

 

[Big Negri]

The thing is what people don’t understand is that the likes of Kai Kennedy are not developed to the extent of Ojo is and there’s a big difference in age... It’s down to people not waiting, we’ll see more youth players in the Stranraer game.

Hate to use them as a comparison but the lad Johnston at them isn’t the strongest. Kai should at least be on our bench.

 

[Monty_greenock34]

That’s not the point though. You’re making out as if playing against Berra and Ikpeazu is a legitimate excuse for not playing youngsters

I don’t really care about other teams youngsters. But the fact every team in the country is playing youth shows it’s a Rangers problem and not a Scottish problem

But every other team that's playing youngsters are not in the same position as rangers with Europe, pressured of league, financially, list goes on so you can't compare say motherwell giving a youngster a game to us. And out all the youngsters that are playing in spl right now not one would get in our team.

Our youngsters need to be physically and mentally ready and need to make a real impact if given a chance in a high pressure game.

Imo our fixtures are too delicate to give a youngster a shot, it could backfire and we lose more points or worse could have a serious impact on the youngsters development.

Unless there's a youngster who looks a genuine superstar ready to busrt through then I'd say we go with the more experienced and developed at this stage.

Try a few out vs Stranraer.

 

[Korova Milk Bar]

Hate to use them as a comparison but the lad Johnston at them isn’t the strongest. Kai should at least be on our bench.

Johnston is 20, Kai is 17.

 

[Kingdom Bear]

Our youngsters normally do pretty well at Scottish championship level ... the big test is making an impact at English league 1 or championship level .... I have high hopes for Stephen Kelly but his next loan move will make or break him in terms of his Rangers career

 

[Laudrup1]

That's it, could you imagine these wee boys up against the likes of ikpeazu and berra and every other hammer thrower.

We are 2 behind and every game is a cup final to the teams we play, we need to stand up to the physicality, the time will come for youth when the time is right imo.

Exactly. How did Serge Atakai get on after 90 seconds of his debut against Motherwell?

Part of the reason we're not seeing youth just yet is that it's the next age group to be ready who are considered the talents. Kennedy is only 17.

Barnjonas is about the only one from the more senior players who is rated.

The likes of Patterson, Maxwell, Kennedy and NYC are all still a year off being at first team stage in terms of development.

I think next season we'll see a couple of those mentioned above replace the likes of Flanagan, Murphy and Docherty in the squad as we continue our steady improvement of development.

It has to be remembered we lost 5 or 6 years of a properly set up youth department to the Spivs.

 

[Grigo Yossarian]

Exactly. How did Serge Atakai get on after 90 seconds of his debut against Motherwell?

Part of the reason we're not seeing youth just yet is that it's the next age group to be ready who are considered the talents. Kennedy is only 17.

Barnjonas is about the only one from the more senior players who is rated.

The likes of Patterson, Maxwell, Kennedy and NYC are all still a year off being at first team stage in terms of development.

I think next season we'll see a couple of those mentioned above replace the likes of Flanagan, Murphy and Docherty in the squad as we continue our steady improvement of development.

It has to be remembered we lost 5 or 6 years of a properly set up youth department to the Spivs.

This is where I am Laudrup. A little bit of patience is still needed imo.

 

[Tormusk1872]

Ojo is miles ahead of anything we have in the youth dept just now. That's why he plays and the others don't!

He's having a bad run of games but that's down to unable to cope with the pressure, not ability.

Disagree totally, he has done next to nothing since he came. I am sure there a few lads in the Youth setup who would have produced much more had they been given the same game time.

 

[Crouchy]

Ojo would run riot at academy level.

He’s well ahead of Middleton, whom can’t even get a game for a shite Hibs team.

They’re at different points in their career, but Ojo will be considerably stronger, quicker and better than Middleton, at present.

 

[Mview83]

I wouldn’t want the likes of Kennedy subjected to playing at Ibrox at this stage in his development

 

[D-Von]

But every other team that's playing youngsters are not in the same position as rangers with Europe, pressured of league, financially, list goes on so you can't compare say motherwell giving a youngster a game to us. And out all the youngsters that are playing in spl right now not one would get in our team.

Our youngsters need to be physically and mentally ready and need to make a real impact if given a chance in a high pressure game.

Imo our fixtures are too delicate to give a youngster a shot, it could backfire and we lose more points or worse could have a serious impact on the youngsters development.

Unless there's a youngster who looks a genuine superstar ready to busrt through then I'd say we go with the more experienced and developed at this stage.

Try a few out vs Stranraer.

The Tims are in the Same position and doing it
Our youth are pumping all the youth players that are starting to get chances at other teams yet ours are the only ones not getting a shot

‘Try a few out vs Stranraer’ lol

 

[Torque_87]

I get what the OP is saying. I'm really hoping with the huge successes our academy is currently enjoying at all levels that over the next few seasons or so, we'll start to see a better return on academy to first team players with another year of development both physically and mentally.

 

[Monty_greenock34]

The Tims are in the Same position and doing it
Our youth are pumping all the youth players that are starting to get chances at other teams yet ours are the only ones not getting a shot

‘Try a few out vs Stranraer’ lol

Show me where the Tim's are playing 17year olds in meaningful league or European games??

Plus you are forgetting we had to build our youth squads back up from scratch while they had the luxury of free seasons to mull over youth.

 

[Mview83]

The Tims are in the Same position and doing it
Our youth are pumping all the youth players that are starting to get chances at other teams yet ours are the only ones not getting a shot

‘Try a few out vs Stranraer’ lol

not true at all

 

[D-Von]

Show me where the Tim's are playing 17year olds in meaningful league or European games??

Plus you are forgetting we had to build our youth squads back up from scratch while they had the luxury of free seasons to mull over youth.

So it only counts if a players 17 now? or a game is ‘meaningful’ to you?
Frimpong starting a cup Final at 18 is pretty meaningful. Johnston has a ridiculous record already of playing in something like 4 cup Finals and has started at Ibrox 3 times.

Nobody is forgetting anything. It’s just a false reason for not giving players who are clearly better options ahead of dross in our squad. Believe it or not nobody is saying sell our first team and just play the youth.
It’s just pretty obvious to anyone who’s watched our youngsters know they are miles ahead of anything in the country yet are the only ones who don’t get a chance

 

[D-Von]

not true at all

What isn’t true?

 

[Yankeeger]

But every other team that's playing youngsters are not in the same position as rangers with Europe, pressured of league, financially, list goes on so you can't compare say motherwell giving a youngster a game to us. And out all the youngsters that are playing in spl right now not one would get in our team.

Our youngsters need to be physically and mentally ready and need to make a real impact if given a chance in a high pressure game.

Imo our fixtures are too delicate to give a youngster a shot, it could backfire and we lose more points or worse could have a serious impact on the youngsters development.

Unless there's a youngster who looks a genuine superstar ready to busrt through then I'd say we go with the more experienced and developed at this stage.

Try a few out vs Stranraer.

We couldn’t even put one on bench v East Fife then we got the young fella Kennedy interview from SG stating he was 19th man the other week he would have been as well being 27th man for all the 19th man comment meant

we aren’t interested in youth promotion at all it’s as clear as day so situation is we spin everything with trophy wins for all youth teams etc simply because the people running the youth set up can’t do no more than there doing they must be as frustrated as everyone else when there hard work isn’t recognised
the budget alone for running academy must be massive it’s about time our club set in stone that at least one youngster is on bench every single game as 18th man and NOT 19th

 

[Sandbear]

Utter bullshit when every other team in the league is playing their youngsters against these players

Look what happenedto the lad Hearts played last season, Cochran(sp)? Saviour of Hearts and Scottish football at the start now struggling out on loan at some jobber team because he wasn’t ready. They are doing the same to that young defender the lad is going to be ruined by their mismanagement of him.
Our players out on loan besides the odd bright spot are not doing well, Middleton is playing reserve , the lad at Dundee cannot get a game , McCrorie is playing right back , if they are not good enough to hold down a place at the teams they are at they are not good enough for Rangers, atm.
I would rather the players were ready for everything Scottish football has to chuck at them rather than ruin them.

 

[strathavenbear]

I think next season we'll see Kelly, Houston, Mayo and Barjonas playing more of a part.
We're going to go into next season without needing a major overhaul of the squad.

If Kent had been brought in at the start of summer I doubt we'd have gone for Ojo.

 

[Yankeeger]

Show me where the Tim's are playing 17year olds in meaningful league or European games??

Plus you are forgetting we had to build our youth squads back up from scratch while they had the luxury of free seasons to mull over youth.

We would NOT have played 16 and 17 year olds in Europa league game even if we were already through but Celtic DID that’s the difference and Man U exactly the same

 

[Yankeeger]

I think next season we'll see Kelly, Houston, Mayo and Barjonas playing more of a part.
We're going to go into next season without needing a major overhaul of the squad.

If Kent had been brought in at the start of summer I doubt we'd have gone for Ojo.

Barjonas is getting to be like the outfield version of the keeper McCrorie were everyone talks about him but he’s no nearer the first team than me probably start making an impact at 31

 

[Monty_greenock34]

We would NOT have played 16 and 17 year olds in Europa league game even if we were already through but Celtic DID that’s the difference and Man U exactly the same

Too many ifs and buts, we are not in same position as these teams, as I said before unless there is a player absolutely horsing it in reserves and bursting at seems to get played for senior team then we have to be cautious.

We are still in the early stages of rebuilding both senior and youth teams, we need to pick our moments more carefully if we want to get 55 anytime soon.

Youth players coming through will happen, there's no panic for it to happen now.

 

[Monty_greenock34]

So it only counts if a players 17 now? or a game is ‘meaningful’ to you?
Frimpong starting a cup Final at 18 is pretty meaningful. Johnston has a ridiculous record already of playing in something like 4 cup Finals and has started at Ibrox 3 times.

Nobody is forgetting anything. It’s just a false reason for not giving players who are clearly better options ahead of dross in our squad. Believe it or not nobody is saying sell our first team and just play the youth.
It’s just pretty obvious to anyone who’s watched our youngsters know they are miles ahead of anything in the country yet are the only ones who don’t get a chance

We are 2pts behind, should have won a cup and in last 32 of Europe, what's the panic to thrust youngsters into positions they might naw be ready for????

Stop watching the poets and comparing us to them, we are not them.

 

[Monty_greenock34]

So it only counts if a players 17 now? or a game is ‘meaningful’ to you?
Frimpong starting a cup Final at 18 is pretty meaningful. Johnston has a ridiculous record already of playing in something like 4 cup Finals and has started at Ibrox 3 times.

Nobody is forgetting anything. It’s just a false reason for not giving players who are clearly better options ahead of dross in our squad. Believe it or not nobody is saying sell our first team and just play the youth.
It’s just pretty obvious to anyone who’s watched our youngsters know they are miles ahead of anything in the country yet are the only ones who don’t get a chance

Frimpong isn't their player (edit he is, thought he was loaned from City) same bracket as ojo

Johnson was introduced at a time celtic were horsing the league with no competition.

If the poets were 2pts behind in league would they try out a 17 or 18 year old Johnson, I think not.

 

[D-Von]

We are 2pts behind, should have won a cup and in last 32 of Europe, what's the panic to thrust youngsters into positions they might naw be ready for????

Stop watching the poets and comparing us to them, we are not them.

You literally compared us to them by asking what games they played youngsters in. You’re not very sharp are you?

 

[Monty_greenock34]

You literally compared us to them by asking what games they played youngsters in. You’re not very sharp are you?

I asked that because you said the Tim's do it hahaha wake up.

Look see at the end of the day now is not the time to try bed young untested boys into our squad at this crucial stage of the season, it's a major gamble on the league chances and their development, right now we are doing brilliant, no need for change just yet.

I look forward to seeing the promising youth we have come through at the right time.

 

[D-Von]

Frimpong isn't their player, same bracket as ojo

Johnson was introduced at a time celtic were horsing the league with no competition.

If the poets were 2pts behind in league would they try out a 17 or 18 year old Johnson, I think not.

Frimpong is their player

Again you compare us to them, but yes they would because they actually believe in youth development
Like Tierney, Frimpong, McGregor, Ajer all playing in big meaning domestic and European games, Johnston would get his chance no matter the circumstances because youth development is about giving players chances because their potential in the longee term is massive. The only support who seem to think youth development isn’t worth it is ours
Literally every big club in Europe is giving youngsters minutes in big European and domestic games because that’s how you develop players.
We heard for years we couldn’t give youngsters a chance because we were shite and it would ruin them, now it’s we can’t give them a chance because we’re good...

But yeah, I’d rather we play Ojo and Barker ahead of Kennedy. Makes perfect sense.

 

[Monty_greenock34]

Frimpong is their player

Again you compare us to them, but yes they would because they actually believe in youth development
Like Tierney, Frimpong, McGregor, Ajer all playing in big meaning domestic and European games, Johnston would get his chance no matter the circumstances because youth development is about giving players chances because their potential in the longee term is massive. The only support who seem to think youth development isn’t worth it is ours
Literally every big club in Europe is giving youngsters minutes in big European and domestic games because that’s how you develop players.
We heard for years we couldn’t give youngsters a chance because we were shite and it would ruin them, now it’s we can’t give them a chance because we’re good...

But yeah, I’d rather we play Ojo and Barker ahead of Kennedy. Makes perfect sense.

You're missing the point, mcgregor Tierney Johnson ect all had the luxury of playing under no pressure and no competition from us for years.

Had they been on the charge to stop us doing 10 in a row and bringing their club back from the brink it would have been a lot different.

We are doing really well under the circumstances, no rush to try bed untested youngsters at our level, it would be a major gamble.

It'll happen in time.

 

[Yankeeger]

I asked that because you said the Tim's do it hahaha wake up.

Look see at the end of the day now is not the time to try bed young untested boys into our squad at this crucial stage of the season, it's a major gamble on the league chances and their development, right now we are doing brilliant, no need for change just yet.

I look forward to seeing the promising youth we have come through at the right time.

Porto with Europa progress at stake against us at Ibrox losing 2-0 with still 20minutes remaining put on a 17 year old that should close this thread

 

[AdiCR2]

Disagree totally, he has done next to nothing since he came. I am sure there a few lads in the Youth setup who would have produced much more had they been given the same game time.

Put ojo in our academy team where Grezda is a star and then compare.