Massive summer ahead, but major overhaul is not needed

Barisic has a fair bit to go before he wins people over but I think its a bit underplayed how pish a player like Papac for example was in his first season, if Smith booted him no one would have bothered their arse.

Halliday in the summer...

Players do improve and get better.
 
We are losing:
Worral, Coulibaly, Kent,
Possibly out:
Davis, Morelos

I think Jones could be a good signing and having Murphy back will help massively. If we keep Morelos I’m very confident of a title challenge. If he goes we need to rip up the game plan unless we can find a similar player.
 
We will have 5 maybe 6 players who can stay in the first team - Mcgregor, Tavernier , Goldson, Katic , Barisic, Arfield and Morelos .

It’s 99.9% certain Morelos will be away and it wouldn’t surprise me one iota if Tavernier was off as well.

So that leaves Mcgregor , Goldson, Katic Barisic , Arfield

With the European run money and the £20 million give it take for Alfie and Tav combined it gives Gerrard roughly £30 million to spend on 6 quality players to fill the first team gaps.

I’m hoping Kent can be brought back for another year , and by adding six £5 million players I’d be hopeful that’s the kind of budget that should and could see us mount a proper challlnege .
 
If we had matched the filths 100% home record we'd be top of the league.

Aberdeen, Kilmarnock, Hibs and St Johnstone - points dropped for the same reason. We were completely lacking in players who could create chances.

We beat filth, won at Tynecastle and Pittodrie, came through 4 QF rounds in Europe, battled for draws with Villarreal.

You just don't do that with a bunch of spineless wimps.

We need attacking talent, not a whole new squad.
 
Axelrod said:
We will have 5 maybe 6 players who can stay in the first team - Mcgregor, Tavernier , Goldson, Katic , Barisic, Arfield and Morelos .

It’s 99.9% certain Morelos will be away and it wouldn’t surprise me one iota if Tavernier was off as well.

So that leaves Mcgregor , Goldson, Katic Barisic , Arfield

With the European run money and the £20 million give it take for Alfie and Tav combined it gives Gerrard roughly £30 million to spend on 6 quality players to fill the first team gaps.

I’m hoping Kent can be brought back for another year , and by adding six £5 million players I’d be hopeful that’s the kind of budget that should and could see us mount a proper challlnege .
Click to expand...
Were you our accountant in the 2000s?
 
Taking into consideration that Alfie will be sold and Kent will return to his parent Club and with the exception of McGregor and Goldson i dont think anyone else is safe from a summer cull.
The manager keeps telling us the players are not carrying out his instructions. He picks the team ffs and has been very loyal to some more than others. It will be an interesting summer.
 
ElBarrileteCosmico said:
Were you our accountant in the 2000s?
Click to expand...

If we sell Alfie and Tavernier a reasonable expectation is £20 million combined . Could even be more .

And £10 million from the European run so that is £30 million to spend on the team . That’s not us providing anything from the board . So what’s wrong with the figure ?
 
Axelrod said:
If we sell Alfie and Tavernier a reasonable expectation is £20 million combined . Could even be more .

And £10 million from the European run so that is £30 million to spend on the team . That’s not us providing anything from the board . So what’s wrong with the figure ?
Click to expand...
Nice that our six new £5million players don't need any wages or fees to sign and that no other money needs spending on the club just a spare £30million for six separate £5million players.

I was going to say it's not Football Manager but I am certain that Football Manager would even show how daft this suggestion is. :D
 
Leith Ger said:
If it were me, I'd be looking to do the following:

Loan return: Worrall, Coulibaly

Move on: Lafferty, Wallace, McAuley, Foderingham, Flanagan, Halliday, Dorrans, Holt,
Hodson, Dodoo, Alnwick, Herrera

Wait & see: Rossiter, Davis, Grezda

Loan out: Middleton

Try to keep: Kent

This leaves: McGregor, McCrorie (GK), Tavernier, Barisic, Goldson, Katic, Polster, Jack, McCrorie, Arfield, Kamara, Candeias, Jones, Morelos, Defoe, Hardie

I think we need 1xGK, 2xCB, 1xLB, 2xCM, 1xRW I think 4/5 would need to be definite starters, particularly in central midfield and then we'd have a couple of squad players.
Click to expand...

Please tell me you're Mark Allen.
 
Kent is 23. He is not breaking into the Liverpool first team. He will be sold in the close season if at all possible. Given the wages in England there is no guarantee he will come to us. Not all that fussed to be honest, he has had good games but also pretty anonymous games.

Selling Alfie would not be my preferred option. he needs to get on top of his discipline, if he does he is worth a lot more. So next winter summer is more palatable option.
 
ElBarrileteCosmico said:
Nice that our six new £5million players don't need any wages or fees to sign and that no other money needs spending on the club just a spare £30million for six separate £5million players.

I was going to say it's not Football Manager but I am certain that Football Manager would even show how daft this suggestion is. :D
Click to expand...

So you want players to play for nothing ? They will be paid the salary the market forces dictate .

Without the kind of spend I’m talking about, we are going nowhere , especially given that the majority of it is financed by selling Morelos and Tavernier .
 
We need improvements in most areas of the pitch but all depends upon how many players make up a major overhaul.

To find five or six quality players that work / are a success, we are likely to sign a good few more than six.

We have definitely made steps forward but it does feel like two forward, one back.
 
Axelrod said:
We will have 5 maybe 6 players who can stay in the first team - Mcgregor, Tavernier , Goldson, Katic , Barisic, Arfield and Morelos .

It’s 99.9% certain Morelos will be away and it wouldn’t surprise me one iota if Tavernier was off as well.

So that leaves Mcgregor , Goldson, Katic Barisic , Arfield

With the European run money and the £20 million give it take for Alfie and Tav combined it gives Gerrard roughly £30 million to spend on 6 quality players to fill the first team gaps.
Click to expand...

If only the arithmetic was as simple as that.

Remember we posted a £14m loss in the last set of accounts, so that more or less wipes out the money we gleaned from our Euro run just to break even.

And while Morelos and Tav may bring in £20m between them, with the club still being funded out of shareholders pockets, I doubt we’ll see all of that.

My guess is Gerrard will have somewhere between £10-12m to spend this summer bringing in up to 10 new players, and if that’s the case, I’m not sure it’s enough to afford the quality additions we desperately lack.
 
I don't think a major overhaul as such is needed but there needs to be a better calibre of player targeted in the summer.

We are stacked for goalkeepers so we are fine there.

The defence doesn't need much work there's enough there for now hopefully Katic or a quality addition is brought in with a cheap 4th choice added as back up.

I'd look to overhaul the midfield and the forward areas and I would put most of the budget on between 5/6 quality additions. Two creative dynamic midfielders are needed as a priority, possibly 2 forward wide players who can assist and chip in with goals on a regular basis. Another striker will be needed if Morelos goes finding his long term replacement will be a difficult task and a more mobile target man as a go to option as a 2nd/3rd striker.

No more pointless loans or SPFL squad fillers. Big work ahead this summer.
 
Axelrod said:
So you want players to play for nothing ? They will be paid the salary the market forces dictate .

Without the kind of spend I’m talking about, we are going nowhere , especially given that the majority of it is financed by selling Morelos and Tavernier .
Click to expand...
Are you mental? I'm literally saying if you buy a player for £5million then he'll be big wages around £30k to be conservative. So where is this additional £180k a week (over £9million a year) to come from since you've spent all the £30million on six £5million players. Anyway, this is going way over your head so I'll leave you to it.
 
They will replace existing players on decent money , that’s how improvement works in case you haven’t noticed . Better players will cost a bit more in terms of wages generally .
 
it actually worries me how enromous the rebuilding job in the summer will be

Almost Certain To Go?

Morelos
McCauley
Coulibally
Flannagan
Kent
Foderingham
Wallace
Worral
Holt
Herrera
Dodoo


Possability they may go?

Tavernier
Grezda


we also need major major upgrades in the forward area. You wont win a league with Candeias or Jordan Jones in your starting 11. Can Murphy be relied on after this injury?


Its likely, at minimum we will need

Centre half
Left back
Creative midfeilder
Striker
Winger


how do we fund all this, and get genuine quality? Only options i can see is Morelos and likely Tavernier going
 
The real problem is a combination of, in no particular order:

A) Poor officiating - this goes without saying. Whatever the reason, officials have cost us points this season.
B) Everyone wanting to 'skelp' us and playing like it's a cup final
i) what comes out of this is need for us to play with a midfield of 5 and are forced to break teams down the hard way. However teams know this and aren't scared of us, so they sit in or come at us like it's a cup final.
C) Lack of strength in depth but that's just life in Scotland. We cannot afford 22 men of the quality we need to win the league - so we make do with 15 or 16 but this soon gets depleted thanks to injuries.

If I look at every single player in our strongest 11, I am not worried:

McGregor
Tavernier Goldson Worral Barisic/Halliday
Jack Davis
Candeias Arfield Kent
Morelos
​
In addition to this we also have the following, dependable players:

Foderingham
Katic
Kamara
McCrorie
Murphy (inj)
Dorrans (inj)
Middleton
McAuley
Coulibaly
Polster
Lafferty
Defoe

To win, we need to be able to attack like we're a 4-4-2 and keep the ball like we're a 4-5-1.

To be honest, I'd like to see us go with:

McGregor
Goldson McAuley Worral
Tavernier__________________________Barsisic
Jack
Candeias Arfield/Davis Kent
Morelos
​
I am no football tactician but to me, the above formation is the only way to attack like a 4-4-2 and keep the ball like a 4-5-1.

We have the men. They have the mentality (look at Europe and Dec Old Firm as examples). We have the manager. We have the vision. We just also have the above 3 things that make it difficult to us.
 
Last edited:
Earth Worm Jim said:
it actually worries me how enromous the rebuilding job in the summer will be

Almost Certain To Go?

Morelos
McCauley
Coulibally
Flannagan
Kent
Foderingham
Wallace
Worral
Holt
Herrera
Dodoo


Possability they may go?

Tavernier
Grezda


we also need major major upgrades in the forward area. You wont win a league with Candeias or Jordan Jones in your starting 11. Can Murphy be relied on after this injury?


Its likely, at minimum we will need

Centre half
Left back
Creative midfeilder
Striker
Winger


how do we fund all this, and get genuine quality? Only options i can see is Morelos and likely Tavernier going
Click to expand...

We in part will fund it because of the departures of some the afore mentioned names who are simply bloated wages.

While it won't be much Holt, Herrera and Wallace are and have been simply costly assets to us in recent times rather than players we will "miss" the same can be said of Dodoo and arguably McAuley.

McAuley at best is a replaceable 4th choice CB that isn't a massive job to fix - same applies for Foderingham, we have backup GK's on the books.

That's a lot of exits with minimal work needed and hopefully a wider wage spend.

If you drill deep into it of those on the out list, it is only really Morelos and Tav who will impact as such as we could yet keep Kent and we will have a bedded in Katic to step into the Worral role.
 
omegaman said:
If only the arithmetic was as simple as that.

Remember we posted a £14m loss in the last set of accounts, so that more or less wipes out the money we gleaned from our Euro run just to break even.

And while Morelos and Tav may bring in £20m between them, with the club still being funded out of shareholders pockets, I doubt we’ll see all of that.

My guess is Gerrard will have somewhere between £10-12m to spend this summer bringing in up to 10 new players, and if that’s the case, I’m not sure it’s enough to afford the quality additions we desperately lack.
Click to expand...

Thats not really true as that money was covered by directors loans and those loans dont need paid back in cash as they are being converted to equity.

£13M of them already done before xmas.
 
Earth Worm Jim said:
it actually worries me how enromous the rebuilding job in the summer will be

Almost Certain To Go?

Morelos
McCauley
Coulibally
Flannagan
Kent
Foderingham
Wallace
Worral
Holt
Herrera
Dodoo


Possability they may go?

Tavernier
Grezda


we also need major major upgrades in the forward area. You wont win a league with Candeias or Jordan Jones in your starting 11. Can Murphy be relied on after this injury?


Its likely, at minimum we will need

Centre half
Left back
Creative midfeilder
Striker
Winger


how do we fund all this, and get genuine quality? Only options i can see is Morelos and likely Tavernier going
Click to expand...

We in part will fund it because of the departures of some the afore mentioned names who are simply bloated wages.

While it won't be much Holt, Herrera and Wallace are and have been simply costly assets to us in recent times rather than players we will "miss" the same can be said of Dodoo and arguably McAuley.

McAuley at best is a replaceable 4th choice CB that isn't a massive job to fix - same applies for Foderingham, we have backup GK's on the books.

That's a lot of exits with minimal work needed and hopefully a wider wage spend.

If you drill deep into it of those on the out list, it is only really Morelos and Tav who will impact as such as we could yet keep Kent and we will have a bedded in Katic to step into the Worral role.

We have in theory, a reduced player pool, thus more wages to spend, the Europa league funding to go into a player additions pot and also, arguably the best factor is we have removed the need to spend money to reduce the wage bill before we can add to it, there shouldn't be the need for mass pay offs there was last summer which would have cost money.
 
Earth Worm Jim said:
it actually worries me how enromous the rebuilding job in the summer will be

Almost Certain To Go?

Morelos
McCauley
Coulibally
Flannagan
Kent
Foderingham
Wallace
Worral
Holt
Herrera
Dodoo
Click to expand...

How many of them are going to be a big miss though?

This lot are lucky if they have 15 starts for us this season.

McCauley
Coulibally
Flannagan
Foderingham
Wallace
Holt
Herrera
Dodoo
 
EndOfDays said:
Thats not really true as that money was covered by directors loans and those loans dont need paid back in cash as they are being converted to equity.

£13M of them already done before xmas.
Click to expand...

Maybe so, but the facile application of Euro money + sale of Morelos and Tav gives us circa £30m+ is likely to end in disappointment.

We won’t have anything like that to spend this summer.
 
I agree with the OP, we are not that far behind tht mhanky mob, no major overhaul will be required IMO. There is a good team there and a few more additions in the summer we will definitely be pushing for that league title next season.

Gerrard is still learning on the job and has hopefully learned from his mistakes. We have taken massive strides under him this season to getting back to were we belong, qualifying for the Europa League was a massive achievement and some of the performances we put in during that campaign showed we do have it what it takes. I wouldn't be surprised if he hasn't already identified who he wants out the door in the summer. Not all doom n gloom, fans need to get behind the manager / team on Wednesday night which is a massive game, winning the Scottish Cup would be a massive step in the right direction.
 
ElBarrileteCosmico said:
Are you mental? I'm literally saying if you buy a player for £5million then he'll be big wages around £30k to be conservative. So where is this additional £180k a week (over £9million a year) to come from since you've spent all the £30million on six £5million players. Anyway, this is going way over your head so I'll leave you to it.
Click to expand...

I think this would depend on the interpretation of "a £5 million player", where the assumption you've made is that the £5m refers entirely to the transfer fee. It could be referring to the full package including wages, signing-on fee, etc.

All that said, the numbers and arithmetic thrown around by supporters in public and online can almost always be taken as ill-informed, lacking real understanding and generally out of touch with the reality of things.
 
I just take it as a given now we will have 2 or 3 on loan most years, likely with a couple starting.

The larger sides just have far too many good players on their books - as a result there is always going to be players kicking about who can add something to us from the loan market.
 
omegaman said:
Maybe so, but the facile application of Euro money + sale of Morelos and Tav gives us circa £30m+ is likely to end in disappointment.

We won’t have anything like that to spend this summer.
Click to expand...

I agree with that, we run at a loss so I think the euro money + Morelos fee will hand Gerrard £15M.
 
PMB1872 said:
In all honesty, I think the following non-loan players are of the quality required:
McGregor Tavernier Goldson Katic Jack McCrorie Arfield Morelos
Maybes:
Barisic (but needs to grow a set) Kamara (too early to judge but good debut) Dorrans (but never fit) Rossiter (but never fit) Candeias (only for certain types of games) Polster (no idea yet) Jones (we shall see how the jersey fits) Grezda (still early but thus far unconvinced)
Make dos for certain games:
Halliday Lafferty Middleton

To me we need:
A left back (possibly)
Another centre half that will challenge Goldson and Katic properly
A foot on the ball, spray passes midfielder
An attacking midfielder who can shoot
A centre forward who is good in the aur
Two wingers who can beat a man and consistently deliver good crosses
Click to expand...

This is bang on for me
 
An interesting stat for me is that we have never been more than a goal behind in a game this season, we are much more compact and hard to beat as we have shown with 9 men and 10 men on many occassions.

I dont think you can have that and also a brilliant free flowing attacking team so there has to be a tweak somewhere to find a better balance.

Creative midfielders are needed and they must be able to strike a ball, our shooting is up there with the worst i have seen from a top club.

We could also do with a big target man to play for certain games
 
I am 99% certain any £5m player would include any signing on fee and wages...we don't have £5m x 4 players PLUS wages etc.
 
a_weir said:
The real problem is a combination of, in no particular order:

A) Poor officiating - this goes without saying. Whatever the reason, officials have cost us points this season.
B) Everyone wanting to 'skelp' us and playing like it's a cup final
i) what comes out of this is need for us to play with a midfield of 5 and are forced to break teams down the hard way. However teams know this and aren't scared of us, so they sit in or come at us like it's a cup final.
C) Lack of strength in depth but that's just life in Scotland. We cannot afford 22 men of the quality we need to win the league - so we make do with 15 or 16 but this soon gets depleted thanks to injuries.

If I look at every single player in our strongest 11, I am not worried:

McGregor
Tavernier Goldson Worral Barisic/Halliday
Jack Davis
Candeias Arfield Kent
Morelos
​
In addition to this we also have the following, dependable players:

Foderingham
Katic
Kamara
McCrorie
Murphy (inj)
Dorrans (inj)
Middleton
McAuley
Coulibaly
Polster
Lafferty
Defoe

To win, we need to be able to attack like we're a 4-4-2 and keep the ball like we're a 4-5-1.

To be honest, I'd like to see us go with:

McGregor
Goldson McAuley Worral
Tavernier__________________________Barsisic
Jack
Candeias Arfield/Davis Kent
Morelos
​
I am no football tactician but to me, the above formation is the only way to attack like a 4-4-2 and keep the ball like a 4-5-1.

We have the men. They have the mentality (look at Europe and Dec Old Firm as examples). We have the manager. We have the vision. We just also have the above 3 things that make it difficult to us.
Click to expand...

You said it all with I am no football tactician.
 
Tbf there will be quite a lot of comings and goings again this season.
We've got the loanees going back (hopefully we can get Kent another year), but we have to factor in that Morelos will likely be off, and middle to front we will need a complete revamp.
Also I think the "winning mentality" phrase gets trotted out far too often. I honestly think our main problem is not attitude but a lack of technically gifted and quality players in the final third (Morelos apart).
 
As I posted in response to another thread re. the subject of 'team strengthening', we can argue all we want about who needs punted, or which areas need upgrading, but until Gerrard and Mark Allen or whomever is, or has been, responsible for our signing policy up their game, next year will be a repeat of this season. It's a obering thought that of the large number of new players brought in at the start of the season, only McGregor and Goldson, plus loanee Kent, have been consistently up to par - the rest, aside from showing the odd flash of ability, have been major disappointments.
 
Everyone knows the midfield is our weak link so it's good knowing that going into the summer we can spend a decent amount of money on 2-3 quality midfielders instead of having to buy a full squad again
 
SuperGers07 said:
WE simply cannot be ripping it up and starting again every year like the last few years.
Gerrard, will get us motoring. There's only a few tweaks here and there required.

Sadly, there is a clear lack of winning mentality and desire in that dressing room still, and the manager of all people will now know that. I firmly believe he will have the cards marked of those he wants out.

I don't think it will be a major overhaul, but tough calls will probably be made.
Mid february and the league's away (again), we need to find a way to win games consistently. The alternative, would be a disaster and see us continuing to be in the shadows for years to come.
Click to expand...
Ah what’s this a sensible fan with a sensible view who hasn’t over reacted to a poor result.
We have basis of a good squad and we are 4 good players away from having a real chance of winning league.
In my opinion we need to replace candeias,jack,airfield,davis with 1st team upgrades.
Maybe harsh on Davis but on Saturday was his time to shine and he just didn’t show up
 
baystatebear said:
As I posted in response to another thread re. the subject of 'team strengthening', we can argue all we want about who needs punted, or which areas need upgrading, but until Gerrard and Mark Allen or whomever is, or has been, responsible for our signing policy up their game, next year will be a repeat of this season. It's a obering thought that of the large number of new players brought in at the start of the season, only McGregor and Goldson, plus loanee Kent, have been consistently up to par - the rest, aside from showing the odd flash of ability, have been major disappointments.
Click to expand...
Wouldn’t say Katic and barasic have been major disappointed although the latter has been poor in the last few games.
 
Once SG sorts out different horses for different courses rather than the shoehorn method, we may see better results
 
SuperGers07 said:
WE simply cannot be ripping it up and starting again every year like the last few years.
Gerrard, will get us motoring. There's only a few tweaks here and there required.

Sadly, there is a clear lack of winning mentality and desire in that dressing room still, and the manager of all people will now know that. I firmly believe he will have the cards marked of those he wants out.

I don't think it will be a major overhaul, but tough calls will probably be made.
Mid february and the league's away (again), we need to find a way to win games consistently. The alternative, would be a disaster and see us continuing to be in the shadows for years to come.
Click to expand...

The only way we will start to win games consistently is getting better quality in !

I also think there are more than a few tweaks needed!
 
SG said there were no leaders against ST. Johnstone.

The guy who is the captain is meant to be a leader. Personally, I Don't see it.
 
The main thing we need is a hard bastard who can lead by example. I know McGregor's probably that type but as a goalie you are very limited during games with regards to influencing things.

After that reinforcements in every rank: A proper defender, a midfielder who can make the entire team tick and either a replacement or partner for Morelos.

Unfortunately I'm not sure if that's realistic.
 
We don’t need a full team, what we need is some quality attacking flair from somewhere, all our midfielders are basically the same.
 
Crouchy said:
We have a decent defence.

McGregor

Tav
Goldson
Katic
Barasic

McCrorie

We now need to sort out how we open teams up.

I think we’ll get Kent back for another season.

Arfield and Jack are good, but we need something different in there as well. We also need a proper number 10 for home games. Swapping McCrorie out and putting someone at the top of the triangle.

Candeias is good, but we also need a goal scorer from there.

We need to keep Morelos or replace him with something special.

We then need a decent 2/3rd striker that can play on his own as well.

Two genuine quality midfielders. An 8 & a 10.

A wide right who gets 10+ a season.
Click to expand...
Still don't think that defence is comfortable enough.
Katic. You think he will come in out the cold and be a 1st choice. Goldson has started to show a slow slide. I want to see a more watertight defence. That needs string full backs also. I'm still not convinced we have enough back there.
 
PMB1872 said:
In all honesty, I think the following non-loan players are of the quality required:
McGregor Tavernier Goldson Katic Jack McCrorie Arfield Morelos
Maybes:
Barisic (but needs to grow a set) Kamara (too early to judge but good debut) Dorrans (but never fit) Rossiter (but never fit) Candeias (only for certain types of games) Polster (no idea yet) Jones (we shall see how the jersey fits) Grezda (still early but thus far unconvinced)
Make dos for certain games:
Halliday Lafferty Middleton

To me we need:
A left back (possibly)
Another centre half that will challenge Goldson and Katic properly
A foot on the ball, spray passes midfielder
An attacking midfielder who can shoot
A centre forward who is good in the aur
Two wingers who can beat a man and consistently deliver good crosses
Click to expand...
I think that's pretty accurate,the only thing I would say is on the wingers Jones is coming in so that should be one less required. Not saying I rate Jones as I am unconvinced and he will need to work harder. We need quality.
 
The Moon on Mars is Blue said:
I think that's pretty accurate,the only thing I would say is on the wingers Jones is coming in so that should be one less required. Not saying I rate Jones as I am unconvinced and he will need to work harder. We need quality.
Click to expand...
We absolutely need quality. We need a commanding midfielder, a winger that can consistently deliver decent crosses, and a striker that’s good in the air for variety. Our best team versus their best team is much of a muchness. We have no depth though.
 
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