Murty Gets Central Defence Selection Right

M

MearnsUnionist

Guest
Plenty on here wanted Bruno back at the expense of Martin or Bates .

Plenty on here, myself included, were undecided whether or not to recall him.

The Hamilton game aside, we've conceded 3 goals in the last 9 games and yesterday Bates and Martin showed Murty why he was right to keep faith with them.

Both of them played well yesterday , but Martin in particular was excellent.

They both know how to mark tight and defend a set piece.

Can you hear that Rob Kiernan and Danny Wilson?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Their Murty’s first choice partnership and will keep their place for Tuesday.
Hearts offered near to nothing attack wise so not getting too carried away.
Falkirk at home is probably the game to rest certain players and Alves and maybe Cardoso will get some game time?
 
was glad to see alves was on the bench and not starting.stick with what is working and also when you look at midfield we owned hearts if we get the front men hitting the net and McCrorie back i feel we have a team that will get 55
 
Fod had 2 good saves in the first half.
There was also a couple of scrambles in the box after set pieces which could have gone either way, luckily yesterday we managed to clear our lines.
 
We’ve seen the best and worst of our CB pairing in the last week. The Hamilton game was a bit of a circus, but hopefully it was a one off.

7 goals in 9 games we’ve conceded since the break all in. Not great to be honest but it’s not all down to the CBs either. Sometimes the midfield and fullbacks need to do more defensively.

Both were solid yesterday and looked a totally different CB pairing from the one we seen last week. The midfield were also excellent in tracking back and breaking up the oppositions play.

It is pretty clear that Bates and Martin are Murtys first choice pairing anyway so let’s hope they can go from strength to strength.

Hopefully yesterdays defensive performance from the back 4 and the midfield is what we will see from now on.
 
BL11 said:
I just don’t feel comfortable with Martin.

Bates gets a bad press for his distribution but Martin is just as bad, if not worse.

Alves is the best CB at the Club just now and should be in ahead of Martin.
Click to expand...


Martin pretty much won every challenge he went for yesterday and ensured the back line stepped out as one.

Thought he'd an excellent game.
 
nybear said:
was glad to see alves was on the bench and not starting.stick with what is working and also when you look at midfield we owned hearts if we get the front men hitting the net and McCrorie back i feel we have a team that will get 55
Click to expand...

Who’s spot does McRorie take? I thought we were poor at the back yesterday my only concern. Bates looked terrible in the first half. If your Ross can’t get back in the MF he walks back into the CH berth for me at the expense of Bates
 
MearnsUnionist said:
Mate Hearts had only one effort on goal each half, so where do you get that they were all over the place?
Click to expand...
Wes had two good saves in first half and twice the ball bounced around our six yard box with our defence looking wobbly but not opponents on hand to tap in.

Ww weren't all over the place though but dud have a couple of oh shit moments first half.
 
Still not convinced of the Martin/Bates partnership, yesterday there were 2 or 3 occasions where we let the Ball bounce inside our box and there was panic as to who was attacking the ball, we seemed unsure and left it to each other, luckily we managed to scramble it away, I think Alves is still our best CH but who partners him is anyone’s guess
 
MearnsUnionist said:
Mate Hearts had only one effort on goal each half, so where do you get that they were all over the place?
Click to expand...

I kind of know where he is coming from.

In the first 15-20 minutes Lafferty was bullying Bates a bit. He won every header against him and was dragging him about.

I was fearing it was going to be a long afternoon for Bates but he was fine after the first 20 minutes.
 
BL11 said:
Berra outmuscled him at numerous corners and long throw ins in the first half in particular.

I’m far from convinced but it’s all about opinions.
Click to expand...


Berra is probably the best centre half in the air in the league mate.

At least he wasn’t getting free headers.

Remember those days?
 
Brick_Top said:
I kind of know where he is coming from.

In the first 15-20 minutes Lafferty was bullying Bates a bit. He won every header against him and was dragging him about.

I was fearing it was going to be a long afternoon for Bates but he was fine after the first 20 minutes.
Click to expand...


Lafferty is a very good player and will win his fair share against anyone mate.

It's how you deal with the 2nd ball that matters and I thought we did pretty well.
 
I agree that Lafferty was causing our central defence problems early on but his height (once reported to be seven foot two) makes him an awkward opponent. I thought Bates stuck to his task well.

Imo Hearts rarely threatened because of how we played. High tempo and energy and when Hearts did have possession we closed them down quickly. A great performance yesterday.
 
I thought our central defence looked decidedly shaky for the first half hour yesterday. Throw ins into the box allowed to bounce 2 or 3 times. I thought Martin struggled. Bates challenged Lafferty in the air for the first 15 minutes and then I think concluded that he wasn't getting much change out of Lafferty so went to just getting his body on Lafferty rather than trying to win the ball cleanly in the air. A sensible adjustment. They were better after the first half hour but I remain unconvinced by both Martin and Bates. I'll readily accept that they are a country mile better than Kiernan and Wilson. Personally, I would still put McCrorie, Alves and Cardoso ahead of Martin and Bates. But each to their own.
 
ferris72 said:
Fod had 2 good saves in the first half.
There was also a couple of scrambles in the box after set pieces which could have gone either way, luckily yesterday we managed to clear our lines.
Click to expand...

This.

I do think Martin is a good partner in defence for anyone but hasn't given me total confidence just yet.
 
Burgh-Ger said:
In the first half I thought they were all over the place!!
The 2nd was more comfortable!!
Click to expand...
They were.

Quite a few balls over the top had them scrambling, don’t think they won in the air against Lafferty either. Hearts seemed to win everything at set pieces too.

We were really good yesterday, but we don’t need a thread about the centre halfs. They’re still shakey and its the biggest weakness in our team in my opinion. Urgent position needing filled in the summer.
 
It was noticeable that Lafferty never went one on one with Martin until late in the game as he knew he wouldn’t win the battle our out muscle him, tried to bully Bates but I thought Bates more than matched him and wasn’t jumping in and giving away free kicks needlessly it was Lafferty that gave away a good half dozen free kicks with shoves or leans on Bates
 
I thought every player on the park played well yesterday but if both Martin and Bruno are fully fit then I would choose Bruno every time. Whether Bruno is ready for 90 mins I'm not sure but when he is he should play.
 
We've conceded 7 goals since the break.

3 have been penalties.

1 was a howler from Foderingham against Ayr.

1 goal against Hamilton was mainly down to a mistake by Docherty.

1 goal was Candeias/centre of midfields fault for letting McGinn run 30 yards and shoot.

Only 1 goal from open play can really be blamed on our centre backs.
 
Last edited:
Buffallo72 said:
Who’s spot does McRorie take? I thought we were poor at the back yesterday my only concern. Bates looked terrible in the first half. If your Ross can’t get back in the MF he walks back into the CH berth for me at the expense of Bates
Click to expand...
if Ross wasnt out i feel bates would have been on the bench, some games he drifts in and out of. we need to be quicker in clearing our box we also need someone at the back when we are putting balls into opposition boxes the number of times the ball is put over and there is nobody at the back to return it back in or go for goal.
 
Martin was close to MOM yesterday. Kept a close eye on Bates and sometimes he is letting his man slipping away from him, a few times Lafferty caught him like this and Wes had to make a good save from one shot.
Lafferty wasn’t an issue when Martin took over marking him.
Bates has a better 2nd half but he was caught out a few times in the first half.
Martin was excellent yesterday and no doubt his first game on the crappy Hamilton pitch caught him out.
I think if Alves comes in it will be for Bates.
 
davmcc said:
We've conceded 7 goals since the break.

3 have been penalties.

1 was a howler from Foderingham against Ayr.

1 goal against Hamilton was mainly down to a mistake by Docherty.

1 goal was the Candeias/centre of midfields fault for letting McGinn run 30 yards and shoot.

Only 1 goal from open play can really be blamed on our centre backs.
Click to expand...

The goal against Hamilton was equally John’s fault as much as Docherty’s both put in weak tackles.
 
I keep seeing posts about Martins distribution being poor, I actually think he is very composed with the ball at his feet.
He put a couple of great balls over the top of the Hearts right back late on yesterday.
He also done the he same v Hamilton if you watch the full game again.
I think him and Bates are the men in possession of the jerseys and it shows we now have a manager who is willing to play form players rather than names.
It also shows we have strength in depth that Cardoso wasn’t even in the 18 stripped
 
Hemdani said:
They were.

Quite a few balls over the top had them scrambling, don’t think they won in the air against Lafferty either. Hearts seemed to win everything at set pieces too.

We were really good yesterday, but we don’t need a thread about the centre halfs. They’re still shakey and its the biggest weakness in our team in my opinion. Urgent position needing filled in the summer.
Click to expand...


If you've ever played football at a decent level, and I'm pretty sure you have judging by your measured posts, you'll know that if you're playing against a 6ft 3in centre forward then he'll win his fair share of flick ons.

The most important things are making sure you win the second balls and ensuring there's no free headers at set pieces.
I thought we dealt with both of those scenarios pretty well.

Our CDs are by no means perfect mate but it is a relatively new partnership.

The point I was trying to make was that Murty was justified in staying with them.
 
Brick_Top said:
We’ve seen the best and worst of our CB pairing in the last week. The Hamilton game was a bit of a circus, but hopefully it was a one off.

7 goals in 9 games we’ve conceded since the break all in. Not great to be honest but it’s not all down to the CBs either. Sometimes the midfield and fullbacks need to do more defensively.

Both were solid yesterday and looked a totally different CB pairing from the one we seen last week. The midfield were also excellent in tracking back and breaking up the oppositions play.

It is pretty clear that Bates and Martin are Murtys first choice pairing anyway so let’s hope they can go from strength to strength.

Hopefully yesterdays defensive performance from the back 4 and the midfield is what we will see from now on.
Click to expand...

I’m not concerned. Of the 7, 4 have been penalties 3 of which have been reall soft and the other was a rush of blood from tav

We are on the correct road imo
 
BL11 said:
I just don’t feel comfortable with Martin.

Bates gets a bad press for his distribution but Martin is just as bad, if not worse.

Alves is the best CB at the Club just now and should be in ahead of Martin.
Click to expand...

I don't think he's helped at all by playing on the left hand side. He looks ill at ease there on occasion.

Clean sheet was nice and all but they need to build on it. Our defensive record this season isn't good enough and our goals against is on par with Hibs and Aberdeen(even Killie have conceded just a couple more than us)
 
I just don't see it with bates. Not bad in the air but the ball in behind gets him everytime. I guess it's all about opinions.
 
MearnsUnionist said:
Plenty on here wanted Bruno back at the expense of Martu or Bates .

Plenty on here, myself included, were undecided whether or not to recall him.

The Hamilton game aside, we've conceded 3 goals in the last 9 games and yesterday Bates and Martin shiwed Murty why he was right to keep faith with them.

Both of them played well yesterday , but Martin in particular was excellent.

They both know how to mark tight and defend a set piece.

Can you hear that Rob Kiernan and Danny Wilson?
Click to expand...

I was of the opinion that Martin should have been dropped for Alves. But he proved a point with a clean sheet and goal. Wes had a pretty quiet game because of how well we dominated the game and defended.

What I liked about the defence was the aggression. To win every battle, every header. Even Goss was showing a willing desire to make tackles
 
MearnsUnionist said:
Mate Hearts had only one effort on goal each half, so where do you get that they were all over the place?
Click to expand...
We all view the game differently, for me Bates really struggled to cope with Lafferty in the first half. He never won a header and was out muscled at times. We were that commanding in the 2nd half, Lafferty never had an influence. I would have thought the Lafferty issue would have been addressed at half time.
 
MarkD87 said:
I was of the opinion that Martin should have been dropped for Alves. But he proved a point with a clean sheet and goal. Wes had a pretty quiet game because of how well we dominated the game and defended.

What I liked about the defence was the aggression. To win every battle, every header. Even Goss was showing a willing desire to make tackles
Click to expand...


That's the most agressive I've seen Goss mate.

He really does know how to control a central midfield.
 
BL11 said:
Berra outmuscled him at numerous corners and long throw ins in the first half in particular.

I’m far from convinced but it’s all about opinions.
Click to expand...
I’m the same. I’d like Bruno to get game time to get him back fit. Unconvinced about our defence I’m afraid. Great going forward right enough.
 
AirthBear said:
We all view the game differently, for me Bates really struggled to cope with Lafferty in the first half. He never won a header and was out muscled at times. We were that commanding in the 2nd half, Lafferty never had an influence. I would have thought the Lafferty issue would have been addressed at half time.
Click to expand...


As I said in another post, a 6ft 3in striker will win more than his fair share of flick ons, it's unavoidable.

What is important though is winning the 2nd balls and not giving him free headers at set pieces.

I thought we dealt with that well.

All about opinions though as you rightly said .
 
MearnsUnionist said:
As I said in another post, a 6ft 3in striker will win more than his fair share of flick ons, it's unavoidable.
Click to expand...

Even if the guy marking him is taller ?

It wasn't his 'fair share' in the first half. Lafferty was beating him almost every time.
 
I think we may need to include/leave out Alves based on opposition style. If we are playing a high line against a team sitting back, then we must have Bates or Ross in defence. If we have an opposition that’s unlikely to look for ball in behind and use a hammer thrower approach, then I’d be tempted to play both Alves and <someone else>. Good options to have
 
Anoldranger said:
I must have fell asleep in the first half
Click to expand...

The ball was bouncing about 6yard a few times and we could have easily conceded!
Laffery had 2 shots where he won the first ball and could turn easily - both needing good saves!
Like I said, we looked shaky at the back but settled and looked comfortable!
I’m not convinced by our CH’s - Bates makes
me nervous - an example of that was in the second where he took one touch in the box and needed to retreave the ball as it went 3 or 4 feet away from him - his second touch was a tackle!

Bates is a young man and will get better however I get the fear with him!!
 
MearnsUnionist said:
Martin pretty much won every challenge he went for yesterday and ensured the back line stepped out as one.

Thought he'd an excellent game.
Click to expand...

Agree with this.

Being a centre half is about organising those around you and not just winning headers in the box.

A top centre half needs to control the line and mould the back line together as a unit. I think this is where Alves being foreign might work against him, although his English should be good enough to bark out orders.

Anyway, what a great problem to have. I'm very comfortable with the thought of either Alves or Martin in there. Again, are you listening Kiernan and Wilson
 
I thought Bates was fairly poor in the air in the first half and was bullied by Lafferty. He was solid in the second.

Martin had his best game for us so far.
 
SDF said:
Even if the guy marking him is taller ?

It wasn't his 'fair share' in the first half. Lafferty was beating him almost every time.
Click to expand...


Don't recall Lafferty actually winning anything in out box SDF.

Can't be much in it height wise between the 2, but if a striker as tall as Lafferty times his jump properly then he's got a better than even chance of winning a header when the centre half starts behind him.

Different scenario from a corner or free kick when you're both side by side.
 
two2tango said:
I’m not concerned. Of the 7, 4 have been penalties 3 of which have been reall soft and the other was a rush of blood from tav

We are on the correct road imo
Click to expand...

Also agree with this.

You know what I'm loving? I'm loving that we are now having debates about our best selection in different areas of the pitch, whilst still winning, rather than having debates about which player is most shite and needs replaced most as a matter of urgency :D

Yes, things have definitely improved. We've come a lot further than many realise this January transfer window. :)
 
MearnsUnionist said:
If you've ever played football at a decent level, and I'm pretty sure you have judging by your measured posts, you'll know that if you're playing against a 6ft 3in centre forward then he'll win his fair share of flick ons.

The most important things are making sure you win the second balls and ensuring there's no free headers at set pieces.
I thought we dealt with both of those scenarios pretty well.

Our CDs are by no means perfect mate but it is a relatively new partnership.

The point I was trying to make was that Murty was justified in staying with them.
Click to expand...
Fair enough mate, don't think I'll ever be quite satisfied with Bates & Martin playing but can't argue with much of your post.

Felt they were much stronger at set pieces, Hughes & Berra winning against Martin.

Did think Bates avoided any usual dodgy moments yesterday mind you, but still need 2 new starters for CB.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page

Latest posts

Back
Top