Our grestest central midfielder?

Gascgoine had it all. Pace, skill, strength and ability to produce under immense pressure. And scored wonderful goals. He wins this hands down. Barry Ferguson for me has been the best home produced midfielder for a generation and is a worthy second. In my lifetime I have to add.
 
Gazza wins for me as well. Still remember all the kids with blonde hair running about when he joined. Those were the days.
 
Modfella said:
One of the last conversations I had with my Dad before he passed was who was his all time fav Rangers player.
I expected him to say Baxter, Greig or Henderson but without a blink he said Dave Smith.
Click to expand...

I had a similar conversation with my dad, I asked him how good Baxter was he reckoned Dave Smith was every bit as good and more consistent.

For all those voting Gazza think of what he did in Europe compared to Barry Ferguson who bossed midfields against some of the biggest names in European football at the time.

Durrant without doubt had the potential to be as good as anything Europe had at the time. He was just different from anything I had seen before or since, he just ghosted in to positions.
 
tazz abear said:
A key phrase.
To me though, Sixties superstars wouldn’t, with a few exception, survive in today’s game. Way
I’m not saying this is a good thing but, I believe it to be the truth.
Click to expand...
I know the way you're thinking, but consider the fact that if these guys were playing nowadays, there would be no achilles killing tackles from behind to worry about, or straight leg bone shakers.
They might look even better!
 
tazzabear said:
A key phrase.
To me though, Sixties superstars wouldn’t, with a few exception, survive in today’s game.
I’m not saying this is a good thing but, I believe it to be the truth.
Click to expand...

SAF has always maintained that the players of previous generations would have adapted.

It’s a different game today that requires greater athleticism etc, but with a proper training regime they would have benefited from the lighter ball, pristine pitches and absence of hatchet men:))

Always a great argument though.
 
EricBoAnderson said:
Ok please give me 10 players you would play ahead of Albertz in central midfield. And from '94 onwards please as I am only going on players that I have actually seen
Click to expand...
Albertz rarely played centre midfield
Advocaat played him left side if McCann was injured. Or benched
Barry and Gio in the centre
Tugay even kept him out centre midfield at times
Walter Smith played him left back at times when he first arrived
Was a good player but no even close to one of the best i have seen in centre midfield
 
EricBoAnderson said:
Ok please give me 10 players you would play ahead of Albertz in central midfield. And from '94 onwards please as I am only going on players that I have actually seen
Click to expand...
Barry Ferguson, Durrant, Gascoigne, Ian Ferguson, Davis, van Bronckhurst.
That’s six based on playing quality, longevity and success.
For me, other than his tremendous shooting, Albertz was no better than a good player.
To this end, I’d add Tugay and Mendes as better quality footballers and McCall as a player you’d want in the trenches before your choice.
So, nine since 94.
I go back a bit further and could easily add more post Souness like Wilkins and Derek Ferguson and further back again for Russell and even Johnstone.
 
tazzabear said:
Barry Ferguson, Durrant, Gascoigne, Ian Ferguson, Davis, van Bronckhurst.
That’s six based on playing quality, longevity and success.
For me, other than his tremendous shooting, Albertz was no better than a good player.
To this end, I’d add Tugay and Mendes as better quality footballers and McCall as a player you’d want in the trenches before your choice.
So, nine since 94.
I go back a bit further and could easily add more post Souness like Wilkins and Derek Ferguson and further back again for Russell and even Johnstone.
Click to expand...
Respect your opinion mate but we clearly have a very different opinion on this particular player.
 
Keltygeorge said:
Albertz rarely played centre midfield
Advocaat played him left side if McCann was injured. Or benched
Barry and Gio in the centre
Tugay even kept him out centre midfield at times
Walter Smith played him left back at times when he first arrived
Was a good player but no even close to one of the best i have seen in centre midfield
Click to expand...
Thanks for this.
I intended adding this lie to my reply to that poster but forgot.
 
I know a lot of these go by the generation but I wish I had seen Baxter. Laudrup was the best I’ve ever seen
 
Keltygeorge said:
Albertz rarely played centre midfield
Advocaat played him left side if McCann was injured. Or benched
Barry and Gio in the centre
Tugay even kept him out centre midfield at times
Walter Smith played him left back at times when he first arrived
Was a good player but no even close to one of the best i have seen in centre midfield
Click to expand...
He and Gio rotated a lot throughout the game. His best position was CM.
Keltygeorge said:
Albertz rarely played centre midfield
Advocaat played him left side if McCann was injured. Or benched
Barry and Gio in the centre
Tugay even kept him out centre midfield at times
Walter Smith played him left back at times when he first arrived
Was a good player but no even close to one of the best i have seen in centre midfield
Click to expand...
Albertz and Gio rotated constantly throughout a match. I watched him at left wing back under Walter and saw Advocaat leave him on the bench plenty but, in my opinion, he was a central midfielder and a top class one at that. I'm picking him ahead of Barry.
 
I loved to watch Baxter and Henderson, but for me it must be John Greig with his drive, bravery and no small amount of skill.
 
For me it has to be Jim Baxter I missed most of his time at Ibrox, from 64 till I seen him against Gornick in 69, I was away in the Army, but from the first day we knew we had a superstar, would you believe we even tried to make him a front man, till Scot Symon seen the error of this and then brought him back into the middle of the park.
 
Born in 83 so don't remember Durrant pre-injury, but even after he came back he was a hell of a player. Loved Ian Ferguson growing up as well.

But then along came Gazza in 95 and I've not seen a better footballer in central midfield for us before or since.
 
I think it's a romance thing. Players are better now than they were in the past. It's not even close. The standard is improving and will keep improving.
 
TN8 said:
Born in 83 so don't remember Durrant pre-injury, but even after he came back he was a hell of a player. Loved Ian Ferguson growing up as well.

But then along came Gazza in 95 and I've not seen a better footballer in central midfield for us before or since.
Click to expand...
Yep, I’m born in 82 and its Gascoigne for me.
 
Before my time but I've seen enough videos and heard too many old yins speak of Baxter; so it's him.

My lifetime? ... Maybe controversial but it's probably Van Bronkhurst or Arteta tbh.
 
Davidsmith1 said:
Baxter was possibly the best player in the world for a year or so, none of the others were.
Click to expand...
Souness potentially, although at Liverpool not us. As big a winner as you will ever see and vastly underrated as a footballer because he was physically dominant.
 
Davidsmith1 said:
Baxter was possibly the best player in the world for a year or so, none of the others were.
Click to expand...
MO_TxTruBlu said:
With all due respect, when?
Click to expand...

Davidsmith1 said:
For about a year and a bit before the leg break he was definitely there or thereabouts.
Click to expand...

Again, with all due respect, Baxter was without doubt, a genius, and a wonderful Player, but outside of our own support, I very much doubt that anyone ever considered Baxter thee best player in the world, at any time.
Not once in those years (62-64) was Baxter ever considered for the Ballon d'Or
In fact, he did not even make it into the Top 25 players voted for, in any of those three years.
And that is just Europe.
I would say Josef Masopust, who led Czechoslovakia to the World Cup Final in 62', defeating Scotland (and Baxter) 4-0 and 4-2 along the way, and won the Ballon d'Or, was considered better.
I would also say that Gianni Rivera (AC Milan) and Luis Suarez (Inter Milan) were rated much higher.
Baxter left Rangers just six months after his leg break, and the only teams queuing for his signature were Sunderland and Stoke City.

Anyway, getting back on topic (best Central Midfielder), I would consider Baxter more of a Left Sided midfielder as opposed to a Central Midfielder.
Much in the same way as your namesake (Dave Smith) was, before being converted into a Central Defender/Sweeper.
I see that Rangers team (62-64) as a three man midfield, with John Greig Central, with McMillan on the right, Baxter on the left.
If we are talking most gifted Midfielder for Rangers, then it would have to be Baxter, or possibly Gascoigne, in my lifetime,
but if we are talking best Central Midfielder then for me it has to be John Greig.
Greig of course did not have the talents of the aforementioned two, but he had everything else in abundance, and despite being voted the Greatest Ranger, is still in my opinion, vastly underrated as a Player.
 
Although he only played 50 games for us The Magnificent Bastard is the one for me. 5 league titles with Liverpool and 3 European Cups, a record that no other Rangers player can rival outside of Scotland
 
MO_TxTruBlu said:
Again, with all due respect, Baxter was without doubt, a genius, and a wonderful Player, but outside of our own support, I very much doubt that anyone ever considered Baxter thee best player in the world, at any time.
Not once in those years (62-64) was Baxter ever considered for the Ballon d'Or
In fact, he did not even make it into the Top 25 players voted for, in any of those three years.
And that is just Europe.
I would say Josef Masopust, who led Czechoslovakia to the World Cup Final in 62', defeating Scotland (and Baxter) 4-0 and 4-2 along the way, and won the Ballon d'Or, was considered better.
I would also say that Gianni Rivera (AC Milan) and Luis Suarez (Inter Milan) were rated much higher.
Baxter left Rangers just six months after his leg break, and the only teams queuing for his signature were Sunderland and Stoke City.

Anyway, getting back on topic (best Central Midfielder), I would consider Baxter more of a Left Sided midfielder as opposed to a Central Midfielder.
Much in the same way as your namesake (Dave Smith) was, before being converted into a Central Defender/Sweeper.
I see that Rangers team (62-64) as a three man midfield, with John Greig Central, with McMillan on the right, Baxter on the left.
If we are talking most gifted Midfielder for Rangers, then it would have to be Baxter, or possibly Gascoigne, in my lifetime,
but if we are talking best Central Midfielder then for me it has to be John Greig.
Greig of course did not have the talents of the aforementioned two, but he had everything else in abundance, and despite being voted the Greatest Ranger, is still in my opinion, vastly underrated as a Player.
Click to expand...

JG in the sixties team was a right half (defensive mid).

By the time we won our three league titles in the seventies I'm pretty sure he was playing left back.

As always i bow to your superior knowledge as your posts are phuckin brilliant:)
 
Woodrow Call said:
JG in the sixties team was a right half (defensive mid).

By the time we won our three league titles in the seventies I'm pretty sure he was playing left back.

As always i bow to your superior knowledge as your posts are phuckin brilliant:)
Click to expand...
;)
Yes John Greig was a Right Half in the sixties, but he could play anywhere, and was excellent wherever he played, Inside Right, Right Half, Left Half, Right Back, Left Back, Central defender, Sweeper, man marker, Greig could play comfortably and well in any of those positions.
Although the teams were still listed as 2-3-5, I think that by the sixties, we were operating more of a 3-3-4 formation, with McKinnon central in defence, and Shearer and Caldow, right and left of him.
In Midfield, Greig would be central, with McMillan, and Baxter right and left of him.
McMillan and Baxter were the creative ones, so to speak, with Greig the central holding midfielder, but despite being the 'defensive' midfielder of the three, you will still find that he probably scored more goals than any of the more attack minded midfielders.
 
For me Gazza. He wasn't here as long as B. Ferguson who basicaly carried the team for spells but for just pure natural ability and sheer genius it's got to be Gazza.
P.s my Da says Baxter, undoubtedly
 
Probably Baxter in my life time but stick wee name in. The wee prim minister Ian McMillan what player his passes were sublime just ask Willie Henderson.
 
MO_TxTruBlu said:
;)
Yes John Greig was a Right Half in the sixties, but he could play anywhere, and was excellent wherever he played, Inside Right, Right Half, Left Half, Right Back, Left Back, Central defender, Sweeper, man marker, Greig could play comfortably and well in any of those positions.
Although the teams were still listed as 2-3-5, I think that by the sixties, we were operating more of a 3-3-4 formation, with McKinnon central in defence, and Shearer and Caldow, right and left of him.
In Midfield, Greig would be central, with McMillan, and Baxter right and left of him.
McMillan and Baxter were the creative ones, so to speak, with Greig the central holding midfielder, but despite being the 'defensive' midfielder of the three, you will still find that he probably scored more goals than any of the more attack minded midfielders.
Click to expand...

As always an excellent explanation.

I started attending around 63 but I wa a child with no understanding of the game.

The classic team of Richie, Shearer, Caldow I often wondered who sat in beside McKinnon. I know football was based on attack back then but surely we had two central defenders. JG was 4 and Baxter 6. Did JG sit in beside Ronnie McKinnon?
 
Woodrow Call said:
As always an excellent explanation.

I started attending around 63 but I wa a child with no understanding of the game.

The classic team of Richie, Shearer, Caldow I often wondered who sat in beside McKinnon. I know football was based on attack back then but surely we had two central defenders. JG was 4 and Baxter 6. Did JG sit in beside Ronnie McKinnon?
Click to expand...
I started going around the same time, and I'm probably a lot lot younger than you ;).

I don't think we would have played with two central defenders in the early sixties.
I would say we operated a 3-3-4 formation, for the most part, with Greig the deeper of the midfield trio.
By the mid sixties, some teams were using 4 at the back ie 4-2-4 or as Ramsey's England 4-4-2.
Celtic used McNeill and Clark as a central defensive pairing, but I think that Clark was more there to cover McNeill who was not fast, and was often beaten easily on the deck.
McKinnon was fast, and not easily beaten on the deck, and therefore did not need the insurance of cover in the same way.
Having said that, I think at Wembley 67' Greig and McKinnon were a central defensive partnership.
Even with Davie White, I think Greig was the central Midfielder, with Penman, and Dave Smith either side of him.
I would say it was the very end of the sixties, start of the seventies, before we used two central defenders, as in Jackson/McKinnon, or Johnstone/Smith.
That is just my take on it.
 
tazzabear said:
A key phrase.
To me though, Sixties superstars wouldn’t, with a few exception, survive in today’s game.
I’m not saying this is a good thing but, I believe it to be the truth.
Click to expand...
Of course they would,with the benefit of modern day Sports Science, in fact they'd flourish.
 
tazzabear said:
Barry Ferguson, Durrant, Gascoigne, Ian Ferguson, Davis, van Bronckhurst.
That’s six based on playing quality, longevity and success.
For me, other than his tremendous shooting, Albertz was no better than a good player.
To this end, I’d add Tugay and Mendes as better quality footballers and McCall as a player you’d want in the trenches before your choice.
So, nine since 94.
I go back a bit further and could easily add more post Souness like Wilkins and Derek Ferguson and further back again for Russell and even Johnstone.
Click to expand...
I’m not having that. Albertz’ passing ability is criminally underrated and I’ll include his set pieces in terms of crossing from free kicks and corners too, add to that I’d have trusted him to do it in the biggest games as much as if not more than the other players mentioned there. You’re making Albertz sound like Gavin Rae with a good shot.
 
Danger Zone said:
I’m not having that. Albertz’ passing ability is criminally underrated and I’ll include his set pieces in terms of crossing from free kicks and corners too, add to that I’d have trusted him to do it in the biggest games as much as if not more than the other players mentioned there. You’re making Albertz sound like Gavin Rae with a good shot.
Click to expand...
Albertz indeed was much more than just goal scorer. He could read the game, an amazing passer of the ball, maybe lacked a bit of mobility.

The reason I'd take him out of this thread is he wasn't a centre mid, mostly played on the left, or even left back at times.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page

Latest posts

Back
Top