Our record in 'big' domestic games since 18/19.

C

Carlisle Bear

Well-Known Member
2018/19
Lose League Cup semi-final 1-0 Aberdeen.
Lose Scottish Cup quarter-final 2-0 Aberdeen.
Go top of the league in December by winning at Hearts, lose 1-0 at home to Aberdeen to relinquish top spot 3 days later.
Collapse post winter break.
Lose deciding OF game 2-1.

2019/20
Lose League Cup final Celtic 1-0
Lose Scottish Cup quarter-final 1-0 Hearts.
Go top of the league in October by winning against Hamilton, draw 1-1 away to Hearts to relinquish top spot in the next game.
Collapse post winter break.
League called early.

2020/21
Lose League Cup quarter-final 3-2 St Mirren.
Lose Scottish Cup quarter-final on penalties St Johnstone.
55 - Glorious, but with no fans in the grounds, to mention this is to talk down an achievement that means so much to us, no matter your opinion on that this season looks like the exception rather than the rule.

2021/22
Lose League Cup semi-final 3-1 Hibs.
Collapse post winter break.
Lose deciding OF game 2-1 which results in a 12 point swing since December.

I'll caveat the above by pointing out the European performances across this period have been outstanding and there may be some big games in there where we have won yet ultimately resulted in no silverware (few OF wins, beat Hearts 1-0 in a semi final).

What are people's overriding opinion of this team as it ends it's cycle? I know it's not over yet.
 
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We're fine against teams who play open, expansive football (Europe and Celtic).
We struggle with teams who make it difficult for us.
Our problem this season is our inability to score more goals. We need about 8 or 9 on target to score 1.
 
It’s why I was so miffed that Gerrard was on that dream scene.

A complete failure domestically.

One trophy in nine was a genuine disgrace. Last year should have been a treble. Getting put out of cups by the likes of St Mirren and St Johnstone. We were all so delighted about the league that we gave him and the players a free ride.

That lot go for every domestic competition. We need new players who want to win.
 
Domestically the team are failures. They achieved success last season in the league but aren't a successful team.

I was never one for the argument that they can't play in front of fans but I think domestically, over the course of the season, they have struggled to cope with the demands of an expectant stadium every week.

One of Gerrard's failings which Gio hasn't reversed is instilling a winning mentality in the team.
 
Edweird said:
This is why I think the domestic cups are an important marker for us.
Until we are back to winning at least doubles on a regular basis the effects of admin still linger.
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Winning the League Cup would instill belief and confidence in the team. This season might have been different if we had won it (or any of the past five seasons, to be fair).
 
Last season we lost the cups by losing goals in the last minute, twice.
I would like to know why we collapse after the winter break, every time.
 
Drumgelloch Loyal said:
We were cheated out of that League cup final against them. Linesman failed to spot 3 offside players in the run up to their goal.
Just another....in a long line of "honest mistakes" we've been on the recieving end of.
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Pity we don't have that crutch to lean on regarding the semis and other big games in which we've shat it...
 
HandsomeHead said:
We played five big domestic games against them last year, winning four and drawing one, with a 4-1 hammering thrown in for good measure.
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It got to the point relatively early on where there wasn’t any real pressure against them though, truth being told.

Going into those games knowing we’d hump them without a single worry seems like such a long time ago.
 
Carlisle Bear said:
Which is covered in the post.
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Not really.

You highlighted yesterday’s loss in this season’s snapshot, but omitted any breakdown of our OF wins from last season including a crucial victory at Parkhead early on in the season, a game that was more or less a title decider at New Year and a Scottish Cup tie that should have seen us go on and lift the trophy.

There’s no argument from me that we lack the mental fortitude to win domestic silverware on a regular basis or that last season does feel a bit like the exception rather than the rule, but in the interests of fairness the achievements of last season don’t deserve to be a footnote just to make a point.
 
Carlisle Bear said:
2018/19
Lose League Cup semi-final 1-0 Aberdeen.
Lose Scottish Cup quarter-final 2-0 Aberdeen.
Go top of the league in December by winning at Hearts, lose 1-0 at home to Aberdeen to relinquish top spot 3 days later.
Collapse post winter break.
Lose deciding OF game 2-1.

2019/20
Lose League Cup final Celtic 1-0
Lose Scottish Cup quarter-final 1-0 Hearts.
Go top of the league in October by winning against Hamilton, draw 1-1 away to Hearts to relinquish top spot in the next game.
Collapse post winter break.
League called early.

2020/21
Lose League Cup quarter-final 3-2 St Mirren.
Lose Scottish Cup quarter-final on penalties St Johnstone.
55 - Glorious, but with no fans in the grounds, to mention this is to talk down an achievement that means so much to us, no matter your opinion on that this season looks like the exception rather than the rule.

2021/22
Lose League Cup semi-final 3-1 Hibs.
Collapse post winter break.
Lose deciding OF game 2-1 which results in a 12 point swing since December.

I'll caveat the above by pointing out the European performances across this period have been outstanding and they're may be some big games in their where we have won yet ultimately resulted in no silverware (few OF wins, beat Hearts 1-0 in a semi final).

What are people's overriding opinion of this team as it ends it's cycle? I know it's not over yet.
Click to expand...
They do not have enough backbone they just lift their game for Europe and meander through league games.
so many of them need to be cleared out now as they were good for a certain level and are good players but they lack that fight and battle and interest in our league and cup games.
 
mfgorm said:
Last season we lost the cups by losing goals in the last minute, twice.
I would like to know why we collapse after the winter break, every time.
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Even worse, losing goals in the last minute AFTER we scored late goals ourselves to either take the lead/rescue the situation.

But when you think about it, losing last minute/injury time goals has been a constant ever since Gerrard's first league game at Pittodrie right up to Ross County a few weeks back.

I'd wager the amount of last minute/injury time goals this group have lost is in double figures.
 
SmileyBear said:
They do not have enough backbone they just lift their game for Europe and meander through league games.
so many of them need to be cleared out now as they were good for a certain level and are good players but they lack that fight and battle and interest in our league and cup games.
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They rejuvenate themselves in Europe because they're in the shop window, and they want to move to a better league. None of them are interested in the domestic dross, as they'll see it, and so they can't be bothered to try because nobody's watching them playing here.
 
This team surrenders far to easy when the chips area down.

They’re the most mentally weak team I’ve seen in my time following Rangers over two decades.

They are far to used to losing and are a million miles away from the required winning mentality needed at this club. It’s not even close
 
Bluebeard said:
My over riding opinion is for all the failures and near things they delivered THE title we all craved and for that I will always be thankful to them.

But it’s time now for a new era whether that’s under GVB or not remains up in the air
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We are Rangers, we want every title.

Saying ‘but we won the one we wanted’ after the event is tinpot as %^*&. The sort of thing they would have come out with in the 90s if they had ever actually won anything of note.
 
Treble Kings said:
They rejuvenate themselves in Europe because they're in the shop window, and they want to move to a better league. None of them are interested in the domestic dross, as they'll see it, and so they can't be bothered to try because nobody's watching them playing here.
Click to expand...
Yes, I agree with that they look like completely different players.
 
HandsomeHead said:
Not really.

You highlighted yesterday’s loss in this season’s snapshot, but omitted any breakdown of our OF wins from last season including a crucial victory at Parkhead early on in the season, a game that was more or less a title decider at New Year and a Scottish Cup tie that should have seen us go on and lift the trophy.

There’s no argument from me that we lack the mental fortitude to win domestic silverware on a regular basis or that last season does feel a bit like the exception rather than the rule, but in the interests of fairness the achievements of last season don’t deserve to be a footnote just to make a point.
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This team has shown they can beat all domestic sides in Scotland but there are OF games and there are OF games for which the season rests on.

I've also omitted a couple of other OF defeats because they weren't the critical game in that campaign.

There's a difference in giving it the Ole's when the league is already won or lost and a must win/must not lose game against them.
 
The crowd thing is overplayed and it's disappointing that it's mentioned again in the OP.

We demonstrated the same domestic fragility in the Cups in front of no audience - and you don't pull out some of the European performances if you are intimidated by crowds (home and away).

I think it's down to misplaced complacency and a degree of arrogance, maybe even entitlement.

The players obviously enjoy playing in Europe as opposed to the monotony and drudgery of Scotland. It's the reason the squad requires regular turnover - talented and ambitious players aren't going to last too long playing the likes of Motherwell four times a season.

Would we forego a Euro run for a domestic Cup?

It's hard. This squad have given us the most fantastic moments (and I think we should prepare for a drop in Euro results). But there is underlying feeling that it should have been even better.
 
SmileyBear said:
Yes, I agree with that they look like completely different players.
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None of them have won a bean between them, hardly, before they won 55. Not one of them are winners in any sense or practical definition of the word. They're losers. Every one of them.
 
Livibear said:
They flourish in Europe where there’s no expectation, but simply don’t have the minerals to do it at home.

Too many with a weak mentality.
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I don’t really agree with this mentality excuse

There is expectation in euro games too. They didn’t lose an OF game for nearly 2 years also.

I actually think euro games suit us because we are a very good counter attacking team.

In all of Gerrards time and also this season we’ve struggled when teams sit in. It’s actually really simple: we don’t have a natural goal scorer, we don’t have any midfield players who can thread forward passes in tight areas, we have no midfield players who can threaten or contribute goals from the edge of the box and we have no wide players who contribute goals.

It’s been the same more or less for 4 years. We are basically not good enough in the final third.
 
SDF said:
Even worse, losing goals in the last minute AFTER we scored late goals ourselves to either take the lead/rescue the situation.

But when you think about it, losing last minute/injury time goals has been a constant ever since Gerrard's first league game at Pittodrie right up to Ross County a few weeks back.

I'd wager the amount of last minute/injury time goals this group have lost is in double figures.
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There's plenty, but then there are plenty of times this team has gone out and got an impressive win as well.

I'm talking about the crunch games, the games you think 'this is the season right here'.

They're woefully short of those victories.
 
Carlisle Bear said:
2018/19
Lose League Cup semi-final 1-0 Aberdeen.
Lose Scottish Cup quarter-final 2-0 Aberdeen.
Go top of the league in December by winning at Hearts, lose 1-0 at home to Aberdeen to relinquish top spot 3 days later.
Collapse post winter break.
Lose deciding OF game 2-1.

2019/20
Lose League Cup final Celtic 1-0
Lose Scottish Cup quarter-final 1-0 Hearts.
Go top of the league in October by winning against Hamilton, draw 1-1 away to Hearts to relinquish top spot in the next game.
Collapse post winter break.
League called early.

2020/21
Lose League Cup quarter-final 3-2 St Mirren.
Lose Scottish Cup quarter-final on penalties St Johnstone.
55 - Glorious, but with no fans in the grounds, to mention this is to talk down an achievement that means so much to us, no matter your opinion on that this season looks like the exception rather than the rule.

2021/22
Lose League Cup semi-final 3-1 Hibs.
Collapse post winter break.
Lose deciding OF game 2-1 which results in a 12 point swing since December.

I'll caveat the above by pointing out the European performances across this period have been outstanding and they're may be some big games in their where we have won yet ultimately resulted in no silverware (few OF wins, beat Hearts 1-0 in a semi final).

What are people's overriding opinion of this team as it ends it's cycle? I know it's not over yet.
Click to expand...
We should be the first ever club to offer job sharing managers. Gio for Europe and someone else for the domestics.
 
Livibear said:
They flourish in Europe where there’s no expectation, but simply don’t have the minerals to do it at home.

Too many with a weak mentality.
Click to expand...
People will try and dispute this despite Ryan Kent actually telling us that this is the case.

Also, I’m not sure no fans was a big factor, but I know covid affecting the scum far worse than us was. All in all this team are serial bottlers, and that’s why Bassey aside, there’s not one player in yesterday’s starting 11 I’d be disappointed to see the back of. Some of them have humiliated us several times over during the last 4 or more seasons, and that includes the so called legends of this squad. So enough is enough.
 
1 campaign of the highest of highs, loved so much of it, some memories I’ll never forget

But that goodwill has more than worn thin. In the other 11/12 competitions this team has competed in, they have found new ways to disappoint and embarrass us.

The LCF 2019 is the only one that I can concede we were unfortunate not to win. The others have been disasters entirely of this team’s ability to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. Look at some of the teams that we managed to let beat us - this team managed to lose trophies in games vs Hamilton, St Johnston, St Mirren, the worst Hearts side in years, the worst Aberdeen side in a decade, Dundee United, etc.

Was that 1 title worth the other 3 seasons of weak-mentality pish and general humiliation we’ve been served up? The uber-staunch will say it was, I say it wasn’t.
 
Regarding the lack of crowd argument, it’s not something I bought, but as this season has progressed and the side have collapsed again when the pressure was on - especially at Parkhead, where they collectively shit themselves - it’s hard not to think there is something in it
 
They aren’t anywhere near as good as we’ve been made to believe. In a sense we’ve been fanny dazzled by decent European performances, showing up against them and the league last season - which going by this season and previous seasons habits coming back appears to have been an anomaly.
They simply aren’t strong enough mentally and aren’t ruthless enough on the pitch, which is why the squad needs gutted. I’d also go as far as saying it’s why we’ve not had many big bids for the players we think we should be getting bids for
 
BrooklynBlue said:
The crowd thing is overplayed and it's disappointing that it's mentioned again in the OP.

We demonstrated the same domestic fragility in the Cups in front of no audience - and you don't pull out some of the European performances if you are intimidated by crowds (home and away).

I think it's down to misplaced complacency and a degree of arrogance, maybe even entitlement.

The players obviously enjoy playing in Europe as opposed to the monotony and drudgery of Scotland. It's the reason the squad requires regular turnover - talented and ambitious players aren't going to last too long playing the likes of Motherwell four times a season.

Would we forego a Euro run for a domestic Cup?

It's hard. This squad have given us the most fantastic moments (and I think we should prepare for a drop in Euro results). But there is underlying feeling that it should have been even better.
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Do you think I like having to highlight it? It's a stick used by opposition fans to talk down 55, an achievement that means the world to us but can you really write it off completely, we'll never have concrete proof but there's a patter of behaviour there which doesn't reflect favourably on them.
 
Carlisle Bear said:
2018/19
Lose League Cup semi-final 1-0 Aberdeen.
Lose Scottish Cup quarter-final 2-0 Aberdeen.
Go top of the league in December by winning at Hearts, lose 1-0 at home to Aberdeen to relinquish top spot 3 days later.
Collapse post winter break.
Lose deciding OF game 2-1.

2019/20
Lose League Cup final Celtic 1-0
Lose Scottish Cup quarter-final 1-0 Hearts.
Go top of the league in October by winning against Hamilton, draw 1-1 away to Hearts to relinquish top spot in the next game.
Collapse post winter break.
League called early.

2020/21
Lose League Cup quarter-final 3-2 St Mirren.
Lose Scottish Cup quarter-final on penalties St Johnstone.
55 - Glorious, but with no fans in the grounds, to mention this is to talk down an achievement that means so much to us, no matter your opinion on that this season looks like the exception rather than the rule.

2021/22
Lose League Cup semi-final 3-1 Hibs.
Collapse post winter break.
Lose deciding OF game 2-1 which results in a 12 point swing since December.

I'll caveat the above by pointing out the European performances across this period have been outstanding and they're may be some big games in their where we have won yet ultimately resulted in no silverware (few OF wins, beat Hearts 1-0 in a semi final).

What are people's overriding opinion of this team as it ends it's cycle? I know it's not over yet.
Click to expand...
Not forgetting the 2016 Scottish Cup Final. The real start of shiting it in big domestic matches.
 
RonnydB14 said:
Regarding the lack of crowd argument, it’s not something I bought, but as this season has progressed and the side have collapsed again when the pressure was on - especially at Parkhead, where they collectively shit themselves - it’s hard not to think there is something in it
Click to expand...
Same.

Believe me, it's not something that sits comfortably with me or I throw around lightly but can I'd be lying if I said I didn't now consider it a factor.
 
There's not really a debate over this-the over riding opinion is that this squad are weak mentally and fail in big games they shouldn't.

You can argue to the cows come home how important 55 was and in Europe as the OP points out we've been punching above our weight since SG arrived with the exception of this season's CL qualifier.

It would take a minor miracle this season for that view to change.

I take a more pragmatic view that I didn't think we would make 55 with the resources we had but there's little point arguing about how poor we've been especially in the cups.
 
CraigM14 said:
They aren’t anywhere near as good as we’ve been made to believe. In a sense we’ve been fanny dazzled by decent European performances, showing up against them and the league last season - which going by this season and previous seasons habits coming back appears to have been an anomaly.
They simply aren’t strong enough mentally and aren’t ruthless enough on the pitch, which is why the squad needs gutted. I’d also go as far as saying it’s why we’ve not had many big bids for the players we think we should be getting bids for
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It’s in the nature of a lot of fans to always search for positives, desperately sometimes. For example even when we went on little winning runs at the end of Gerrard’s first two season’s AFTER we’d pissed the league away and let them build up huge leads, there were plenty who sighted that as a sign that we were gelling, finding form, starting to right the wrongs etc. The reality? It was a team benefiting hugely from playing with the pressure off. I feel like everything that’s happened since is further proof of this.

I’ve taken a torrent abuse at various times for suggesting these players have no bottle. But even then I could tell some people had an inclination that this was the case, but they just couldn’t handle facing up to the reality. But those results laid bare are jarring, and they show a conclusive pattern that cannot be ignored.
 
This team lacks leaders and drive with little winning mentality. It has been like that since Walter Smith was manager.

As an aside, when Rangers won the European Cup Winners Cup in 1972 we beat what was practically the West German national side (Bayern Munich in the semi final) that won the European Nations Cup only weeks after we won in Barcelona.

That same season Rangers finished third in the league 16 points behind Celtic when it was 2 points for a win.
 
Treble Kings said:
They rejuvenate themselves in Europe because they're in the shop window, and they want to move to a better league. None of them are interested in the domestic dross, as they'll see it, and so they can't be bothered to try because nobody's watching them playing here.
Click to expand...
I used to think that but that theory should apply to games like yesterday. I think it's the underdog mentality. We've historically made an arse of games we're expected to win. Losing games from a position of strength etc. They think they're better than they are & can cantor it which results in making big mistakes, i.e. slack passes, not tracking their man, being out of position etc. It's all just laziness then they're left flapping as they've been shown up & can't regain their composure. When they're underdogs they're going into the game knowing they can't switch off so have been mentally prepared for it. It also allows for much swifter & creative attacking.
 
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Punpun said:
1 campaign of the highest of highs, loved so much of it, some memories I’ll never forget

But that goodwill has more than worn thin. In the other 11/12 competitions this team has competed in, they have found new ways to disappoint and embarrass us.

The LCF 2019 is the only one that I can concede we were unfortunate not to win. The others have been disasters entirely of this team’s ability to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. Look at some of the teams that we managed to let beat us - this team managed to lose trophies in games vs Hamilton, St Johnston, St Mirren, the worst Hearts side in years, the worst Aberdeen side in a decade, Dundee United, etc.

Was that 1 title worth the other 3 seasons of weak-mentality pish and general humiliation we’ve been served up? The uber-staunch will say it was, I say it wasn’t.
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Somebody on here last night said this constant referral to 1 from 12 trophies is tramp patter... It's not, it's a legitimate criticism of a squad of players with no will to win whatsoever.
 
To think we won several trophies with guys like jig. Edu. Broadfoot and even ricky foster in our side. It takes more than just talent.
 
Treble Kings said:
Somebody on here last night said this constant referral to 1 from 12 trophies is tramp patter... It's not, it's a legitimate criticism of a squad of players with no will to win whatsoever.
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Scum fans fabricate things and tend to make shite up. 1 from 12 is irrefutable, it’s a cold hard fact. Just as it’s a cold hard fact that of 7 cup humiliations, only one has been at the hands of Celtic, the rest have come against the dross we’re supposed to beat comfortably.
 
I literally cannot wait to see the back of these players. The more we can get rid of, the better. All players out of contract need moved on. A number need sold - I’ll throw Aribo, Kent and Morelos (sadly) into that hat.

They have delivered one trophy which is pathetic. That’s not made up for the ones who get annoyed about that stat.

Sadly I’m not impressed with the sporting director or manager so mediocrity will continue. Especially since we’ve squandered two potential Champions League windfalls and have little money.
 
Amato Amore said:
I don’t really agree with this mentality excuse

There is expectation in euro games too. They didn’t lose an OF game for nearly 2 years also.

I actually think euro games suit us because we are a very good counter attacking team.

In all of Gerrards time and also this season we’ve struggled when teams sit in. It’s actually really simple: we don’t have a natural goal scorer, we don’t have any midfield players who can thread forward passes in tight areas, we have no midfield players who can threaten or contribute goals from the edge of the box and we have no wide players who contribute goals.

It’s been the same more or less for 4 years. We are basically not good enough in the final third.
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Your last sentence sums it up. Throw in this seasons calamities in defence then points are being shipped.
Hearts, Motherwell and Ross County, 6pts shipped from winning positions. We should just be capable of changing formation and shutting up shop against these teams, we have the ability to Finnish them off with a counter attack as well if we end up defending.

If we had those points in the bag it makes yesterday's game easier for us, don't need to chance a win they do.

If we had those points in the bag it makes yesterday's game easier for us.
 
Drumgelloch Loyal said:
We were cheated out of that League cup final against them. Linesman failed to spot 3 offside players in the run up to their goal.
Just another....in a long line of "honest mistakes" we've been on the recieving end of.
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We also missed a pen when Alfie was allowed to take it
 
chickenhawk said:
Your last sentence sums it up. Throw in this seasons calamities in defence then points are being shipped.
Hearts, Motherwell and Ross County, 6pts shipped from winning positions. We should just be capable of changing formation and shutting up shop against these teams, we have the ability to Finnish them off with a counter attack as well if we end up defending.

If we had those points in the bag it makes yesterday's game easier for us, don't need to chance a win they do.

If we had those points in the bag it makes yesterday's game easier for us.
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If we had a competent goalkeeper in the above games we'd have took full points.
 
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