Proper rail seats

mdingwall

mdingwall

Administrator

Proper rail seats​


I call rail seats like this 'proper' rail seats.

That's because, just like the German originals, they are unashamedly designed for fans who want to stand. The seat is only there because the rules say it has to be.

99% of the time, it's tucked completely out of the way. That leaves maximum space for standing, and no protruding parts to bruise your calves or scrape your shins.
If you'd like proper rail seats at your club, please feel free to put the relevant people in touch with me. I can then put aside my campaigner's hat, put on my Ferco Seating one, and help them to plan a great safe standing area for you.

My 'work' e-mail, by the way, is jon.darch@fercoseating.co.uk But this safe.standing one is fine to use too.
Cheers,

Jon Darch


 
As much as I would love to see this done for the bottom of the Broomloan, I dont think we will ever see this at Ibrox which is disappointing!
 
Do these seats take up less space and therefore increase capacity?

If not, I don't really see what they provide that we don't already have? We all stand at the big games as it is and i've not seen a steward try to get people to sit down for years.

Understand for 'smaller' games there are some that want to stand and some that don't which causes an issue
 
djc1980 said:
Do these seats take up less space and therefore increase capacity?

If not, I don't really see what they provide that we don't already have? We all stand at the big games as it is and i've not seen a steward try to get people to sit down for years.

Understand for 'smaller' games there are some that want to stand and some that don't which causes an issue
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Bottom sentence is the crux of it. There should be a dedicated section for those who wish to stand.

I'm not sure why the Rangers board obfuscate on this so much. I understand there are bigger priorities but they don't appear to have any appetite for installing a section, but won't come out and explicitly say it. If they have no intention of it then just say and put it to bed.
 
I spoke with this with Jim Hannah and Kenny Scott 10 years ago I was saying why not make it two to one more fans and more money for the club I never heard anything about it from them
 
Was watching a bit of the Athletics the other day and saw it was held in the Olympic Stadium. I was at Bayern Munich match in 1999 and they had the same rail seats installed then.
With a bit of will, this shouldn't be hard for us.
 
djc1980 said:
Do these seats take up less space and therefore increase capacity?

If not, I don't really see what they provide that we don't already have? We all stand at the big games as it is and i've not seen a steward try to get people to sit down for years.

Understand for 'smaller' games there are some that want to stand and some that don't which causes an issue
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Think the ratios in German grounds can allow for up to 2 people standing in what would be a single seat space but could be wrong. I believe that Dortmund may even be up to 3 fans to 1 seat.

Thing is, a lot of the German grounds were redone for the 2006 world cup, so relatively modern and designed with standing (and the extra capacity) in mind.

Ibrox as it is just now, or to be more specific, the Govan, Broomloan and Copland Road stands, are all the other side of 40 years old now. The stands themselves are supposedly no problem in terms of making them terracing/ standing area but the concourses may not quite be able accommodate the extra capacity. That said, even having capacity as is but official standing is better than none at all.
 
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Bearskin said:
Was watching a bit of the Athletics the other day and saw it was held in the Olympic Stadium. I was at Bayern Munich match in 1999 and they had the same rail seats installed then.
With a bit of will, this shouldn't be hard for us.
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This is where the problem lies. There is literally no will from the board.

There is also the argument that disabled facilities should be upgraded first, which I won't argue with, but there is no will to improve that either.

The board deserve a lot of credit but there is still an awful lot they get wrong as well sadly.
 
superallythe2nd said:
Think the ratios in German grounds can allow for up to 2 people standing in what would be a single seat space but could be wrong. I believe that Dortmund may even be up to 3 fans to 1 seat.

Thing is, a lot of the German grounds were redone for the 2006 world cup, so relatively modern and designed with standing (and the extra capacity) in mind.

Ibrox as it is just now, is 40 years old. The stands themselves are supposedly no problem in terms of making them terracing/ standing area but the concourses may not quite be able accommodate the extra capacity. That said, even having capacity as is but official standing is better than none at all.
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I think its 1.8 to 1 ratio in Germany.

All safe standing in the UK is on a 1:1 ratio. I believe some clubs are pushing for this to be increased.
 
It's been mentioned on here before that in the 3 newer stands it wouldn't be as simple as replacing each row with a rail as the gradient would need to be steeper to allow everyone a clear view.
Anyone know if that's true or bollox?
 
superallythe2nd said:
Think the ratios in German grounds can allow for up to 2 people standing in what would be a single seat space but could be wrong. I believe that Dortmund may even be up to 3 fans to 1 seat.

Thing is, a lot of the German grounds were redone for the 2006 world cup, so relatively modern and designed with standing (and the extra capacity) in mind.

Ibrox as it is just now, is 40 years old. The stands themselves are supposedly no problem in terms of making them terracing/ standing area but the concourses may not quite be able accommodate the extra capacity. That said, even having capacity as is but official standing is better than none at all.
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Been in 45 different Stadiums in the top 3 leagues in the last 10 years in Germany and they vary. Stood at around 35 I would say. Some great terraces still in use, they don’t all use this type of standing.

I’m not a massive fan of this rail seating to be honest, just a bit uniformed - remember going in it at Nuremberg and it sure weren’t 2 to 1, was very tight like. Been over this subject before a few times and I’m not too sure some people realise you get an allocated place in this rail seating as well - can’t just bail in anywhere. It’s much better than what’s on offer right now though. I really hate sitting at Football now, especially when it’s full.
 
giogaddi said:
Look good. Pretty unbelievable we're lagging behind clubs like QPR now.

Has it ever been established how much it would cost us to install these at Ibrox?
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I remember at the time of the feasibility discussion, it was around £500k for ~3,000 seats.

Imagine the BF covered for £600k. That’s pennies in the grand scheme of things.

Let’s say £1.5m to do the BF and CF’s. It would be a game changer.

£187 per person. Probably bond it over a period. Even a 2 year scheme at £93 on your season ticket.
 
Think they should have a dedicated seating area for older/younger folk and let the majority stand as that would be the preferred option for most.
 
mdingwall said:

Proper rail seats​


I call rail seats like this 'proper' rail seats.

That's because, just like the German originals, they are unashamedly designed for fans who want to stand. The seat is only there because the rules say it has to be.

99% of the time, it's tucked completely out of the way. That leaves maximum space for standing, and no protruding parts to bruise your calves or scrape your shins.
If you'd like proper rail seats at your club, please feel free to put the relevant people in touch with me. I can then put aside my campaigner's hat, put on my Ferco Seating one, and help them to plan a great safe standing area for you.

My 'work' e-mail, by the way, is jon.darch@fercoseating.co.uk But this safe.standing one is fine to use too.
Cheers,

Jon Darch


Click to expand...
They look good and as safe as houses too.

However when we eventually get around to doing this we need to do it properly with a ratio of 1 to 1.8 like the Germans and only in the Copland Front to prevent the paedos getting our standing section whenever we drew them in the Cup.

Iirc the original CF capacity was 3,200 when it was built but I believe it was increased slightly over the years so assuming it's now 3,500 then a 1 to 1.8 ratio would give us an extra 2,800 capacity.

Moving anyone from their original CF seat (obviously they could stay if they wanted to but most wouldn't) would be easier if we initially only allowed existing ST holders to swap places as this would create more of a choice for anyone moving.

I know some of them have sat in the same seats for years but they don't own them and at least this way they would have a few options to consider and sometimes in life we have to make sacrifices if it's for the greater good.

Imagine over 6,000 bouncing Bears at our traditional Home end every week?

Ps I know that the current legislation only allows 1 to 1 but if its safe enough for the Germans you could bet your life on it that it'll be safe enough for us, this ridiculous issue needs changing ASAP.
 
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The Blue Iceberg said:
They look good and as safe as houses too.

However when we eventually get around to doing this we need to do it properly with a ratio of 1 to 1.8 like the Germans and only in the Copland Front to prevent the paedos getting our standing section whenever we drew them in the Cup.

Iirc the original CF capacity was 3,200 when it was built but I believe it was increased slightly over the years so assuming it's now 3,500 then a 1 to 1.8 ratio would give us an extra 2,800 capacity.

Moving anyone from their original CF seat (obviously they could stay if they wanted to but most wouldn't) would be easier if we initially only allowed existing ST holders to swap places as this would create more of a choice for anyone moving.

I know some of them have sat in the same seats for years but they don't own them and at least this way they would have a few options to consider and sometimes in life we have to make sacrifices if it's for the greater good.

Imagine over 6,000 bouncing Bears at our traditional Home end every week?

Ps I know that the current legislation only allows 1 to 1 but if its safe enough for the Germans you could bet your life on it that it'll be safe enough for us, this ridiculous issue needs changing ASAP.
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The cup ticket situation is the problem for the standing section in the BF.

I would love it if the club would sit down with fans and discuss all the possibilities of what can be done.
 
It’s got to be introduced at Ibrox some time in the future, let’s face it the stadium will need to be upgraded eventually as the Copland, Govan and Broomie are about 42 years old now so the board must have it in mind about what the club needs to do going forward so we have a modern stadium that meets our needs and serves us well for the next 50 plus years.
 
I get a sore back from standing . I'd rather sit.How would we accomodate what everyone wants?Say only 20 percent want to remain seated and we have a vote,what would the majority have to be?Or do we only have it in some stands?
 
Loyal72 said:
From being one of the leading clubs in world football in terms of Stadium redevelopment and improving safety etc.

To lagging behind and not being willing to modernise the ground because some people "huv sat here for 25 year" and the reluctance of the board.
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Those may be issues but I’m not sure we’ve had the extra cash to spend over the past 20 years. Improving the stadium doesn’t come cheap.
 
superallythe2nd said:
Think the ratios in German grounds can allow for up to 2 people standing in what would be a single seat space but could be wrong. I believe that Dortmund may even be up to 3 fans to 1 seat.

Thing is, a lot of the German grounds were redone for the 2006 world cup, so relatively modern and designed with standing (and the extra capacity) in mind.

Ibrox as it is just now, is 40 years old. The stands themselves are supposedly no problem in terms of making them terracing/ standing area but the concourses may not quite be able accommodate the extra capacity. That said, even having capacity as is but official standing is better than none at all.
Click to expand...
I think your imagination is getting carried away here. It doesn't matter how many you can get into a "seat" space. I have to assume these German spaces are much bigger than ours. If you think about Ibrox now as it is you could not comfortably get 2 into one all around the stadium. I doubt if you could even get 1.5 into one. The seats as they are are tiny. Some people take up the entire space of the seat, and half of their neighbour's space, even when standing. I just don't see standing increasing the capacity one iota. I'm not against it for those who want it but it's fanciful to promote it on the basis of more capacity.
 
SamEng said:
I get a sore back from standing . I'd rather sit.How would we accomodate what everyone wants?Say only 20 percent want to remain seated and we have a vote,what would the majority have to be?Or do we only have it in some stands?
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Don't worry on that score - there is a small minority who want to stand. They should possibly be given their own section(s) but the vast majority still prefer to sit.
 
SamEng said:
I get a sore back from standing . I'd rather sit.How would we accomodate what everyone wants?Say only 20 percent want to remain seated and we have a vote,what would the majority have to be?Or do we only have it in some stands?
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I’d safe stand the lower tiers and seating at the middle/top.

Enclosures/CF/BF/GF - all safe standing/rail seating. (10k + 3.5 + 3.5 + 8k = 25k lower bowl safe standing with rover tickets per stand).

Main Stand - current seating.

BR - Family Area
CR - Standard seating
Bar72 - as is.
GR - as is.

Club Deck - massive original Bar 72 style set up. Premium seating in CD 3/4/5.

Cheaper seating/welcome packs in CD 1/2 and 6/7z
 
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Too many loyal fans that are getting too old to stand. Would really have to be for younger people. That would not be easy to achieve.
 
We have always been a forward thinking pioneering football club since our inception and at one time had the most modern stadium in the UK that was the envy of many because of our ambition to strive to continually to be the best .
but we have fallen behind in so many areas due to all the well known financial problems .
But I’d like to think this board has a medium to long term plan to addresses all the issues about the stadium that continually crop up on here.I
As great and iconic as our stadium is ,it's needing a right good refurbishment .
 
The Blue Iceberg said:
They look good and as safe as houses too.

However when we eventually get around to doing this we need to do it properly with a ratio of 1 to 1.8 like the Germans and only in the Copland Front to prevent the paedos getting our standing section whenever we drew them in the Cup.

Iirc the original CF capacity was 3,200 when it was built but I believe it was increased slightly over the years so assuming it's now 3,500 then a 1 to 1.8 ratio would give us an extra 2,800 capacity.

Moving anyone from their original CF seat (obviously they could stay if they wanted to but most wouldn't) would be easier if we initially only allowed existing ST holders to swap places as this would create more of a choice for anyone moving.

I know some of them have sat in the same seats for years but they don't own them and at least this way they would have a few options to consider and sometimes in life we have to make sacrifices if it's for the greater good.

Imagine over 6,000 bouncing Bears at our traditional Home end every week?

Ps I know that the current legislation only allows 1 to 1 but if its safe enough for the Germans you could bet your life on it that it'll be safe enough for us, this ridiculous issue needs changing ASAP.
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We draw Celtic at Ibrox in the cup on average once every 5-10 years. I don’t think that’s a reason not to put safe standing in the very place it would be in demand most.

For anyone under the age of 35, the end that generates the atmosphere is the broomloan now. The rangers end will always be the Copland but the safe standing demand will be for the broomloan to begin with.
 
alfredbester said:
Those may be issues but I’m not sure we’ve had the extra cash to spend over the past 20 years. Improving the stadium doesn’t come cheap.
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If clubs in Scotland can afford to do it, I'm damn sure we can.

Aside the fact, the Broomloan Collective have said that they'd contribute funds toward it.
 
Not against it and trying the Broomie front as a trial would be a good idea.My only reservation is that like me,some fans of a certain age can’t stand throughout a game so some sort of rearranging seats would have to be accommodated.
 
They had them at Leipzig , personally I found them more restrictive to move along the row & generally felt more penned in, didn’t like it

You had a mixture of people standing on the seat (as they were down for the uefa rules) also on the barrier then folk further back couldn’t see
 
Souness86 said:
This is where the problem lies. There is literally no will from the board.

There is also the argument that disabled facilities should be upgraded first, which I won't argue with, but there is no will to improve that either.

The board deserve a lot of credit but there is still an awful lot they get wrong as well sadly.
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If rail seating is a 2 to 1 ratio then would free up space for proper disabled area.
Away fans in WE. Rail seating in BF proper disabled in SJW.
Job done
 
Grew up standing at the game, half the fun was being able to move and interact with your mates and those around you.
I appreciate “free standing” is probably gone for ever but even though the rail seats are the best of a bad lot it doesn’t look like much fun being corralled into lines four feet wide a bit like a cattle crush - keep expecting to see James Herriot with the big rubber glove approaching.:eek:
 
The Blue Iceberg said:
They look good and as safe as houses too.

However when we eventually get around to doing this we need to do it properly with a ratio of 1 to 1.8 like the Germans and only in the Copland Front to prevent the paedos getting our standing section whenever we drew them in the Cup.

Iirc the original CF capacity was 3,200 when it was built but I believe it was increased slightly over the years so assuming it's now 3,500 then a 1 to 1.8 ratio would give us an extra 2,800 capacity.

Moving anyone from their original CF seat (obviously they could stay if they wanted to but most wouldn't) would be easier if we initially only allowed existing ST holders to swap places as this would create more of a choice for anyone moving.

I know some of them have sat in the same seats for years but they don't own them and at least this way they would have a few options to consider and sometimes in life we have to make sacrifices if it's for the greater good.

Imagine over 6,000 bouncing Bears at our traditional Home end every week?

Ps I know that the current legislation only allows 1 to 1 but if its safe enough for the Germans you could bet your life on it that it'll be safe enough for us, this ridiculous issue needs changing ASAP.
Click to expand...
The Broomloan is where you would want the safe standing as the Copland in general is a library
 
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