Remember Allan McGregor, “We Were Rubbish”

Guys like McGregor and John Brown should be involved with Rangers, even if it's just to boot the arses of the players we have at the moment.

That attitude will have a grievance on your hands these days.

The footballers now don't care about the winning it's the flash cars, Instagram and models they pull.
 
Guys like McGregor and John Brown should be involved with Rangers, even if it's just to boot the arses of the players we have at the moment.
You don’t have people round the place with the job title of ‘arse booter’.

We have a manager that most have accepted is a man not to be messed with. Let him do his work. He’s had 1 window and he’s got eyes.

He doesn’t have any loyalties to these players. They aren’t his, he’s been landed with them and needs to try and drag something out of them. Come the summer we’ll see just how ruthless him and Koppen are.

In the meantime, having bomber Brown storming around the place telling players they are shite isn’t the answer, no matter how much better it’d make some of us feel.

This is a matter of quality and consistency. The fact is that our squad is behind Celtic in both categories.
 
You don’t have people round the place with the job title of ‘arse booter’.

We have a manager that most have accepted is a man not to be messed with. Let him do his work. He’s had 1 window and he’s got eyes.

He doesn’t have any loyalties to these players. They aren’t his, he’s been landed with them and needs to try and drag something out of them. Come the summer we’ll see just how ruthless him and Koppen are.

In the meantime, having bomber Brown storming around the place telling players they are shite isn’t the answer, no matter how much better it’d make some of us feel.

This is a matter of quality and consistency. The fact is that our squad is behind Celtic in both categories.
Maybe you're younger than me, but giving someone a boot up the arse in my day was a metaphor, somebody who's going to gee them up, find that fire in them. Brown and McGregor were that kind of player.
Anyway, it'll never happen, not now, different times these days
 
Guys like McGregor and John Brown should be involved with Rangers, even if it's just to boot the arses of the players we have at the moment.
Those days are over. Modern players would just go in a huff. Do you think Dessers , Silva, Matondo etc feel like we do. Those three were prancing about Ibrox after a fucking draw. It didn’t sit right with me then and after yesterday it’s a complete riddy.
 
Those days are over. Modern players would just go in a huff. Do you think Dessers , Silva, Matondo etc feel like we do. Those three were prancing about Ibrox after a fucking draw. It didn’t sit right with me then and after yesterday it’s a complete riddy.
Ah well
 
Come to the realization (finally) that the Rangers I grew up watching in 80s/90s/00s is unlikely to ever come back.

Those Rangers sides had an abundance of winners, a true Scottish spine throughout the team that would never have accepted a performance like that yesterday.

I doubt we will ever get back to having those types of personalities in the dressing room.

So many have said it, but until we get a proper captain and leader in this team with a strong spine we will continue to be 2nd best in this country.

Again, nothing but nostalgic pish.

Our best ever teams suffered from humiliating defeats at times.
 
Get a grip. Do you seriously think they would actually be physical towards them? It was a metaphor ffs.
I don't need to get a grip, anyone who thinks Brown shouting and bawling, bullying players is a great idea is pretty daft. It would be cringeworthy nonsense.
 
Those days are over. Modern players would just go in a huff. Do you think Dessers , Silva, Matondo etc feel like we do. Those three were prancing about Ibrox after a fucking draw. It didn’t sit right with me then and after yesterday it’s a complete riddy.
I don't want players to react like fans.

I want them to be professional and that means not dwelling on defeats or victories. Game at a time, and as soon as it's over you move on to the next one, regardless of the result.

You can enjoy, or commiserate after the season/competition is over.

We've got people on here who bring up a bad pass someone played 5 years ago. Do you really want shite like that stuck in a player's mind?
 
We panicked yesterday after County equalised. The result was a charge up the park leaving disarray at the back. We have vast experience in the team - Tavernier, Goldson, Lundstram being the so- called “leaders”. That goal was scored at 47 minutes. There were 43 standard minutes left plus added time for subs etc. - so more than a full half game. A few minutes of possession and calmness to regain control was needed. Where were the “leaders”.
 
We panicked yesterday after County equalised. The result was a charge up the park leaving disarray at the back. We have vast experience in the team - Tavernier, Goldson, Lundstram being the so- called “leaders”. That goal was scored at 47 minutes. There were 43 standard minutes left plus added time for subs etc. - so more than a full half game. A few minutes of possession and calmness to regain control was needed. Where were the “leaders”.

Bayern Munich lost a CL final with 2 goals in a minute. They had a world cup winning captain in their team.

Barcelona lost a 3 goal advantage at Anfield with the greatest player of all time and a world cup winning captain in their team.

Spurs never won a single trophy while they had a world cup winning captain (Lloris) in their team.

AC Milan collapsed from 3-0 up in a CL Final with several World Cup and multiple CL winners in their team.

Barcelona lost 7-0 to Bayern Munich with a World Cup winning captain and several CL and world cup winners in their team.

It's like some people have never watched football and just go on about this weird nonsense about leaders all the time regardless of what happens.

If you put Richard Gough and John Greg's leadership skills into John Souttar and Goldson yesterday, the same thing happens.

It's just lazy as anything to moan about leaders every time we lose. It's just football. Ross County outplayed us. It's not down to any specific 3 or 4 players. It's down to how our whole team played.
 
Bayern Munich lost a CL final with 2 goals in a minute. They had a world cup winning captain in their team.

Barcelona lost a 3 goal advantage at Anfield with the greatest player of all time and a world cup winning captain in their team.

Spurs never won a single trophy while they had a world cup winning captain (Lloris) in their team.

AC Milan collapsed from 3-0 up in a CL Final with several World Cup and multiple CL winners in their team.

Barcelona lost 7-0 to Bayern Munich with a World Cup winning captain and several CL and world cup winners in their team.

It's like some people have never watched football and just go on about this weird nonsense about leaders all the time regardless of what happens.

If you put Richard Gough and John Greg's leadership skills into John Souttar and Goldson yesterday, the same thing happens.

It's just lazy as anything to moan about leaders every time we lose. It's just football. Ross County outplayed us. It's not down to any specific 3 or 4 players. It's down to how our whole team played.
Excellent post, agree entirely.
 
So it's almost as if the better the manager and the better your teammates are, the more chance you have of winning?

Going by some views on here our lack of success over the last decade is down to Tavernier.
A winning dressing room breeds a winning mentality, which can then be built upon. New signings come into a winning environment with winning mentalities that rub off on them.

It’s what we did for decades, even during barren seasons, there was still a winning mentality, the fight and hunger to get back to the top. And it’s what we lost in 2012, decades of winning foundations washed away.

We don’t have a winning mentality in the dressing room.
 
Too many players thought it would be a piece of piss yesterday, after county took the lead the shitbag, losing mentality kicked in and they dont have the balls to fight back.
It wasn’t just Sunday though.

It was Motherwell, and it was selling goal after goal against Celtic.

Bottled it.
 
Excellent post, agree entirely.

I personally don't

AC Milan for instance did collapse in that CL Final under the Captain of Maldini and the leadership of the likes of Pirlo and Gattuso, but look at the rest of their career.

Messi was part of the side who collapsed at Anfield, but look at the rest of his career.

It can go on with the other examples given.

The games referenced in that post are exceptions, at massive moments in games when those sides are playing at the absolute top level against teams of comparable talent levels, no one would say those things can't happen, they do, it's sport.

Our leadership group though have been part of numerous collapses in terms of one off games, and sustained form during moments of pressure over numerous seasons - those comparisons in the post aren't relevant, it is people who have overcome adversity more often than not.

Those were exceptions, with this group Sunday was not.

This leadership generally haven't helped steer the rest of the group at key moments.

It can be spoken about how "the team" should play, and that's true, but a team does rely on it's biggest earners to drive the standard and come up at key moments.

If the likes of De Bruyne, Rodri and Dias had fallen into themselves last year, City most likely don't win a treble even if others step up to the plate.

The big players, and the big salary earners are generally those who win sides titles and trophies, it comes with the wage

We do panic as a football team, we have done it numerous times during the las 5 years, it's nonsensical to try and claim senior players don't play a massive part in that, they are the constant in it

We have done it with numerous managers and other squad players around that group, the constant has, mostly, been them.

It was said in the post about, if you ever watched football if you ever played football you would never speak about this "nonsense" that is not true, at any level, even fat arse Dads trying to run around on a Sunday, key communication is massive, when you get stressed and in a state of frenzy, a player who will come and take the ball for a minute, take the tempo out or in a game, talk through situations, go and sit in the area of a player who is in a state of struggle and share the ball with them and get easy touches that's just at the absolute lowest level, such things are applicable at the top level as well, team mates do look after each other on the park
 
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I don’t care if we need to let them rot on the bench if we can’t get rid of them the serial losers must not continue into next season, no ifs buts or maybes about it, if they do they I’ll get clement the sack before Christmas.
 
I personally don't

AC Milan for instance did collapse in that CL Final under the Captain of Maldini and the leadership of the likes of Pirlo and Gattuso, but look at the rest of their career.

Messi was part of the side who collapsed at Anfield, but look at the rest of his career.

It can go on with the other examples given.

The games referenced in that post are exceptions, at massive moments in games when those sides are playing at the absolute top level against teams of comparable talent levels, no one would say those things can't happen, they do, it's sport.

Our leadership group though have been part of numerous collapses in terms of one off games, and sustained form during moments of pressure over numerous seasons - those comparisons in the post aren't relevant, it is people who have overcome adversity more often than not.

Those were exceptions, with this group Sunday was not.

This leadership generally haven't helped steer the rest of the group at key moments.

It can be spoken about how "the team" should play, and that's true, but a team does rely on it's biggest earners to drive the standard and come up at key moments.

If the likes of De Bruyne, Rodri and Dias had fallen into themselves last year, City most likely don't win a treble even if others step up to the plate.

The big players, and the big salary earners are generally those who win sides titles and trophies, it comes with the wage

We do panic as a football team, we have done it numerous times during the las 5 years, it's nonsensical to try and claim senior players don't play a massive part in that, they are the constant in it

We have done it with numerous managers and other squad players around that group, the constant has, mostly, been them.

It was said in the post about, if you ever watched football if you ever played football you would never speak about this "nonsense" that is not true, at any level, even fat arse Dads trying to run around on a Sunday, key communication is massive, when you get stressed and in a state of frenzy, a player who will come and take the ball for a minute, take the tempo out or in a game, talk through situations, go and sit in the area of a player who is in a state of struggle and share the ball with them and get easy touches that's just at the absolute lowest level, such things are applicable at the top level as well, team mates do look after each other on the park

So, to summarise your post, whenever Rangers lose a game unexpectedly, its a case of "where are the leaders" but, when anyone else does it, there's a list of excuses to select from?

Cool.
 
So, to summarise your post, whenever Rangers lose a game unexpectedly, its a case of "where are the leaders" but, when anyone else does it, there's a list of excuses to select from?

Cool.

See, the issue, with the other list you mention, those players didn't need excuses and reasons as often as this leadership group though did they.

Speaking about Maldini as a comparison to anyone involved with Rangers for instance, is frankly hilarious
 
No, I don't actually :D but if I read (for the umpteenth time) that putting John Brown into the changing room to shout sidemoof 'see if yeez don't win, ah'll be here waitin fur ye' as a masterstroke of motivation, I will laugh but retort that it's nonsense.
Its a forum, it's opinions, tongue in cheek stuff, things you'd say at the ground

Eg , 'somebody needs to get a grip of him' or 'he needs a good boot up the arse'.

It's not meant to be taken verbatum ffs.

But going by the way some of our players are, maybe a bit of 'strong' talk might wake them up.

Move on ffs,
I knew I'd regret this.
 
Its a forum, it's opinions, tongue in cheek stuff, things you'd say at the ground

Eg , 'somebody needs to get a grip of him' or 'he needs a good boot up the arse'.

It's not meant to be taken verbatum ffs.

But going by the way some of our players are, maybe a bit of 'strong' talk might wake them up.

Move on ffs,
I knew I'd regret this.
I've moved on, but you keep replying to me on it.. :D
 
See, the issue, with the other list you mention, those players didn't need excuses and reasons as often as this leadership group though did they.

Speaking about Maldini as a comparison to anyone involved with Rangers for instance, is frankly hilarious

I didn't speak about Maldini mate.

It's all relative. We can point to successes this group have had that they shouldn't have such as Seville and an invincible title where we were under the most pressure to win a title we ever have.

It's not just those games I mentioned. All across football, teams with successful leaders lose game unexpectedly every single weekend. It's a team game and not just down to two or three "leaders" within the team.

It's just lazy to turn on leadership all the time. The fact is we need better recruitment and better footballers. That's the long and short of it.
 
I didn't speak about Maldini mate.

It's all relative. We can point to successes this group have had that they shouldn't have such as Seville and an invincible title where we were under the most pressure to win a title we ever have.

It's not just those games I mentioned. All across football, teams with successful leaders lose game unexpectedly every single weekend. It's a team game and not just down to two or three "leaders" within the team.

It's just lazy to turn on leadership all the time. The fact is we need better recruitment and better footballers. That's the long and short of it.

You did though, the second you mentioned AC Milan v Liverpool you made reference to the leadership of Maldini.

Our recruitment is that of a football team who spend, millions, and i mean f*cking millions more than sides like Motherwell, Ross County, Hamilton, Kilmarnock, Dundee United, Aberdeen, Hibs and Hearts, we have collapsed against sides of that quality before even thinking for a second about Celtic and the performances put up against them

We have the football players to beat most sides we play in Scotland, the issue in recent years has been a regular folding in mentality, it is just past the stage of making sense to suggest the leadership group of the team take no responsibility for that
 
I don’t care if we need to let them rot on the bench if we can’t get rid of them the serial losers must not continue into next season, no ifs buts or maybes about it, if they do they I’ll get clement the sack before Christmas.
No they won’t because he won’t let them. There’s more chance that the mindless mob who call for a manager’s head every nine months will do that.
 
Small request. Can we stop calling them the "leadership group" please? It's wanky, corporate bollocks. Nauseating.

We'll know who you mean if you say the experienced players :D
 
Bayern Munich lost a CL final with 2 goals in a minute. They had a world cup winning captain in their team.

Barcelona lost a 3 goal advantage at Anfield with the greatest player of all time and a world cup winning captain in their team.

Spurs never won a single trophy while they had a world cup winning captain (Lloris) in their team.

AC Milan collapsed from 3-0 up in a CL Final with several World Cup and multiple CL winners in their team.

Barcelona lost 7-0 to Bayern Munich with a World Cup winning captain and several CL and world cup winners in their team.

It's like some people have never watched football and just go on about this weird nonsense about leaders all the time regardless of what happens.

If you put Richard Gough and John Greg's leadership skills into John Souttar and Goldson yesterday, the same thing happens.

It's just lazy as anything to moan about leaders every time we lose. It's just football. Ross County outplayed us. It's not down to any specific 3 or 4 players. It's down to how our whole team played.
People also use medals as an exclusive barometer to how good a player is when getting stuck into tav (the same guy they were lauding when we were overturning an 11 point deficit). Strangely they have no answer as to whether that makes Ally Maxwell a better keeper than Butland or if it means Harry Kane is just a shite bottle merchant considering his lack of them.

This place just descends into a huffy mud fling fest at times.
 
People also use medals as an exclusive barometer to how good a player is when getting stuck into tav (the same guy they were lauding when we were overturning an 11 point deficit). Strangely they have no answer as to whether that makes Ally Maxwell a better keeper than Butland or if it means Harry Kane is just a shite bottle merchant considering his lack of them.

This place just descends into a huffy mud fling fest at times.

They are both absolutely ridiculous comparisons in all honesty and I say that as someone who likes Tavernier

Butland has spent most of his career at teams like Stoke City and Crystal Palace, not many would expect a great medal haul of him.

Harry Kane had spent most of his career at the 4th/5th best side in England

James Tavernier has spent his time playing for a side who outspend all but one team in the county

During the time he has been here sides like Hibs and St Johnstone have won domestic cups and we have been knocked out by sides like Aberdeen and Hearts

It is massively lowering standards to suggest he and others in the leadership group, and we shouldn't have won more during his time with us rather than "huffy"
 
They are both absolutely ridiculous comparisons in all honesty and I say that as someone who likes Tavernier

Butland has spent most of his career at teams like Stoke City and Crystal Palace, not many would expect a great medal haul of him.

Harry Kane had spent most of his career at the 4th/5th best side in England

James Tavernier has spent his time playing for a side who outspend all but one team in the county

During the time he has been here sides like Hibs and St Johnstone have won domestic cups and we have been knocked out by sides like Aberdeen and Hearts

It is massively lowering standards to suggest he and others in the leadership group, and we shouldn't have won more during his time with us rather than "huffy"
Yes, but for most of those years we were a million miles from that mob in all honesty. You are right that we should have won two more trophies in the 55 season but that happens to all teams and was absolutely nothing to do with one individual player. Thats the point I was making about Kane. Hardly his fault others in the team werent at his level and, while he has been at spurs, teams less capable than them have won trophies (including a premiership title). Same example with Tav in the majority of his time here.
 
Come to the realization (finally) that the Rangers I grew up watching in 80s/90s/00s is unlikely to ever come back.

Those Rangers sides had an abundance of winners, a true Scottish spine throughout the team that would never have accepted a performance like that yesterday.

I doubt we will ever get back to having those types of personalities in the dressing room.

So many have said it, but until we get a proper captain and leader in this team with a strong spine we will continue to be 2nd best in this country.
I watched us in the 1980s we regularly came 4th
What we need is better players
 
Yes, but for most of those years we were a million miles from that mob in all honesty. You are right that we should have won two more trophies in the 55 season but that happens to all teams and was absolutely nothing to do with one individual player. Thats the point I was making about Kane. Hardly his fault others in the team werent at his level and, while he has been at spurs, teams less capable than them have won trophies (including a premiership title). Same example with Tav in the majority of his time here.

The point about being a million miles away from Celtic would hold more relevance had it always been Celtic alone who had derailed our title or Cup bids...... but it hasn't been, it is also years now since Celtic were a million miles away

It isn't solely on Tavernier, but it is now beyond question that the likes of him Goldson, Barisic and Lundstram, the leadership group, are a trend in our lack of trophies and regular collapses.

Goldson himself has literally said he hasn't won enough, same is applicable to Tavernier, it's not just fans deciding that and people being huffy.

The reference to Kane isn't relevant, he hasn't played in a side with anything like close to the gifts and advantages relevant to their competition Tavernier has
 
You did though, the second you mentioned AC Milan v Liverpool you made reference to the leadership of Maldini.

Our recruitment is that of a football team who spend, millions, and i mean f*cking millions more than sides like Motherwell, Ross County, Hamilton, Kilmarnock, Dundee United, Aberdeen, Hibs and Hearts, we have collapsed against sides of that quality before even thinking for a second about Celtic and the performances put up against them

We have the football players to beat most sides we play in Scotland, the issue in recent years has been a regular folding in mentality, it is just past the stage of making sense to suggest the leadership group of the team take no responsibility for that

No it's not mate. The only players who remain and play regularly from the last few years are Goldson, Tav and Lundstram. This is effectively a whole new team under a whole new coaching staff. Yet still the same 3 men are to blame for their leadership and not the carthorse up front missing chances or the midfield who don't score goals or the simple fact that Goldson and Souttar couldn't keep weans out a close?

And no one was talking about mentality when we were winning constantly between October and February. It's the lazy comfort blanket for many and it actually masks the real issue of requiring better players who make fewer mistakes.

Football is a team game. Like I said above, if you take Richard Gough and John Greg's leadership skills and put them into Goldson and souttar, nothing would have changed. They, and others, would still male the same basic mistakes.

I myself played and managed within junior football so a decent enough level. We had guys roaring at each other constantly. Demanding better always. There was a reason we were in junior football and not senior because, ultimately, football comes down to ability and we still made lots of mistakes. It's how the game is. People shouting at you or "leading" you doesn't eradicate those mistakes. And it's basic, basic mistakes our players are making again and again.
 
No it's not mate. The only players who remain and play regularly from the last few years are Goldson, Tav and Lundstram. This is effectively a whole new team under a whole new coaching staff. Yet still the same 3 men are to blame for their leadership and not the carthorse up front missing chances or the midfield who don't score goals or the simple fact that Goldson and Souttar couldn't keep weans out a close?

And no one was talking about mentality when we were winning constantly between October and February. It's the lazy comfort blanket for many and it actually masks the real issue of requiring better players who make fewer mistakes.

Football is a team game. Like I said above, if you take Richard Gough and John Greg's leadership skills and put them into Goldson and souttar, nothing would have changed. They, and others, would still male the same basic mistakes.

I myself played and managed within junior football so a decent enough level. We had guys roaring at each other constantly. Demanding better always. There was a reason we were in junior football and not senior because, ultimately, football comes down to ability and we still made lots of mistakes. It's how the game is. People shouting at you or "leading" you doesn't eradicate those mistakes. And it's basic, basic mistakes our players are making again and again.

You keep speaking about needing better players, we play in Scotland, we have unquestionably better players than all but one team we play, every single one of those sides make basic mistakes to be taken advantage of, we pay the salaries to the players we do to have better mentality and to make less mistakes, but the problem is we buckle

You are correct though another coaching staff, another set of players, and the same clear mental fragility remains, and the harsh reality is, accepted opinion or not, those failings do rest with the highest wage earners of a squad, and that is Tavernier, Goldson and Lundstram.

People did speak of our mentality during October and February, it is a period of time when this group thrive, when the pressure isn't actually on, when the games aren't really and I mean REALLY big.

A lot of fans would condition their views with, you know this group will shit it though, that's not revisionist, that's actually the case, a lot of fans simply don't trust this leadership group, based on a lot of evidence now, people have been burnt by this group a lot, they are the faces who are now regularly there, and more often there when we have failed rather than succeeded, but Seville and 55? sure, but the absolute raft of games now where the day out hasn't been close to that

This group is culpable in our failings, their salary dictate that, they are paid well, and that comes with responsibility, they themselves know that, you are making excuses for them they don't even make for themselves
 
You keep speaking about needing better players, we play in Scotland, we have unquestionably better players than all but one team we play, every single one of those sides make basic mistakes to be taken advantage of, we pay the salaries to the players we do to have better mentality and to make less mistakes, but the problem is we buckle

You are correct though another coaching staff, another set of players, and the same clear mental fragility remains, and the harsh reality is, accepted opinion or not, those failings do rest with the highest wage earners of a squad, and that is Tavernier, Goldson and Lundstram.

People did speak of our mentality during October and February, it is a period of time when this group thrive, when the pressure isn't actually on, when the games aren't really and I mean REALLY big.

And all that said, even during that time, a lot of fans would condition their views with, you know this group will shit it though, that's not revisionist, that's actually the case, a lot of fans simply don't trust this leadership group, based on a lot of evidence now

This group is culpable in our failings, their salary dictates that, they are paid well, and that comes with responsibility, they themselves know that, you are making excuses for them they don't even make for themselves

What excuses am I making for them other than saying us losing at Ross County isn't down to leadership?

Ability wise- Goldson and Lundstram especially aren't good enough.

And that's what counts.

They may well actually be good leaders. Steven Gerrard and Gio thought so. Both CL winners and leaders I'm their own right. Phil Clement thinks so.

But what they are not is good enough at football and that's the issue.
 
What excuses am I making for them other than saying us losing at Ross County isn't down to leadership?

Ability wise- Goldson and Lundstram especially aren't good enough.

And that's what counts.

They may well actually be good leaders. Steven Gerrard and Gio thought so. Both CL winners and leaders I'm their own right. Phil Clement thinks so.

But what they are not is good enough at football and that's the issue.

It massively is down to leadership and mentality, and it's not just Ross County, it is a raft of games which draw this reaction, people haven't just whimsically came to this place after a game

I would question if now sacked Gio actually does think that, I would question if Clement actually does think that. there is an element of Clement in particular having to pander to this group as a consequence of circumstances which have went before him. Even Gerrard regularly would sound beyond frustrated by the general mentality of the side

What they are, is measurably better at football than all but 1 team they often play, which shows a fragility of mindset rather than it solely being about their football talent, to state they simply aren't good enough is an excuse, they ARE good enough to beat the sides who have generally derailed our title bids, the issue is there attitude, and thus leadership of the group often fails them
 
a player who will come and take the ball for a minute, take the tempo out or in a game, talk through situations, go and sit in the area of a player who is in a state of struggle and share the ball with them and get easy touches
There's an argument to be made that this is what Lundstram is doing when he drops back and plays easy passes between himself and the defence. Of course, people are pissed off just now so he's hiding or shirking responsibility or something.
 
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