Swap Sterling and Tav positions for Saturday.

MancGer86 said:
That's not really how I remember the December OF in fairness don't remember us dominating midfield at any point. And the last one whatever the plan was was thrown into turmoil after 20 seconds so they're tough games to really gauge.

Dio and Lundstram are midfielders by trade. They've got to be trusted to do what's asked of them next week. Sterling in front of Tav at least helps to shore up that side of the pitch and nullify their threat. Plus sterling's athleticism can cover for Tav when he makes his moves forward from deep.
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I'll need to rewatch that game, but I remember the general consensus was the difference in attacking quality was the ultimate difference between the sides that day (as opposed to the midfield battle). I also recall Sterling getting a lot of plaudits

I do agree Tav needs better protection, although I think Sterling can also offer this when defending if he's right of a midfield 3. Lundstram and Dio beside him would make up a very strong midfield trio that wouldn't be bullied as easily as the Ibrox game
 
jefftracy said:
Saturday might be a gamble but it's definitely something that should be considered if Tav is here next year. Has been suggested many times on here over the years to move Tav forward and been thrown out as crazy but he is probably one of the best finishers at the club and has an instinct to be in the right place when near the goal. He doesn't have the pace he once had to be bombing up from deep and is smart enough to be able to adapt to being a bit further forward.
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Mate. He's a right back. It's really simple. There's a reason no manager has done it with him before. Everything Tav does even in an attacking sense stems from the fact that he's a right back. It's not as simple as people think to just say play him right wing cos he runs up there anyway:)) he's a right back and will remain a right back until he retires.
 
A lot of new members starting threads and speaking sh!te on here today. Sniff sniff.
 
KensingtonBlue said:
I'll need to rewatch that game, but I remember the general consensus was the difference in attacking quality was the ultimate difference between the sides that day (as opposed to the midfield battle). I also recall Sterling getting a lot of plaudits

I do agree Tav needs better protection, although I think Sterling can also offer this when defending if he's right of a midfield 3. Lundstram and Dio beside him would make up a very strong midfield trio that wouldn't be bullied as easily as the Ibrox game
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As I remember it they should have had 2 or 3 goals before we even got a foothold in the game but it became more even as the game went on and ultimately their extra quality up front was the difference.

Can see merit in a midfield 3 setup like that absolutely. Lundstram in the middle with 2 mobile athletic guys either side of him makes a pretty solid trio I think.
 
The problem is up front not defence. We need a change from Dessers who cannot hold the ball up and engage even general play nevermind the fact he’s like a 1970’s CH when presented with a chance
 
TPP said:
The problem is up front not defence. We need a change from Dessers who cannot hold the ball up and engage even general play nevermind the fact he’s like a 1970’s CH when presented with a chance
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Dessers reminds me of my right foot, good if I don’t have time to think about it
 
Phil'ieve said:
Mate. He's a right back. It's really simple. There's a reason no manager has done it with him before. Everything Tav does even in an attacking sense stems from the fact that he's a right back. It's not as simple as people think to just say play him right wing cos he runs up there anyway:)) he's a right back and will remain a right back until he retires.
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Sorry, but I don't agree. Loads of players over the years have moved into other positions after long careers in one position. Just look when we are chasing a game the amount of times he is pushed further up to try and get something. Not saying it's perfect but at the moment he is probably a better finisher than any other fit member of the team. If he stays with us it cannot be as RB, just about every team we play target that area, with success, and it then has an effect on team selection to try and protect that area.
 
MancGer86 said:
Has he really demonstrated all of those things on a consistent basis though? Has he shown the intelligence needed for those attributes to be an asset for us in midfield? Are all of those things not just as useful out on the right? (With the exception of box to box of course, that would be up and down the right side either slotting in for Tav to go fwd or overlapping Tav to create an overload on that wing).

You can slice his attributes many ways it seems. Works against him somehow in not being used in the same position consistently.

Not saying I disagree with your comments btw I just have questions. I see us being more short on that right side of midfield than Central. Tav has had mccausland and Wright in the last 2 OFs in front of him and we've seen the non existent protection they've offered. That issue disappears for me with sterling there.
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Those attributes are far more useful in the midfield 3 when it comes to an old firm imo. The game is won and lost in midfield and we need to learn from our mistakes. The midfield 3 should be Lundstram, Diomande and Sterling.

A controlled and balanced midfield 3 which can run and dominate.

Playing a balanced 3 in midfield should provide cover for the fullbacks.

Imo we need to return to Gerrardball to beat them.
 
Sterling's best position is midfield he excels there and has the drive to look forwards and use the ball.
Tavs attacking play is always in addition to our forward line as a right back and has paid good dividends.Id be concerned about his shorter range passing if he was an attacking midfielder its way to slack at times and would leave us wide open to the counter and break downs on play.
 
1978RFC. said:
Not sure why we don’t try this but seems like an immediate solve to a problem, Sterling clearly prefers the defensive side of things, Tav clearly excels going forward.

Just switch them round and we have a more sound defence and a right sided forward player who knows that side of the game and his way to goal
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1978RFC. said:
Not sure why we don’t try this but seems like an immediate solve to a problem, Sterling clearly prefers the defensive side of things, Tav clearly excels going forward.

Just switch them round and we have a more sound defence and a right sided forward player who knows that side of the game and his way to goal
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I agree sterling could deal with meada and let them actually worry about tav going forward
 
ForeverBlue1972 said:
I agree sterling could deal with meada and let them actually worry about tav going forward
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This is something that Sterling should do as cover until Tav is back in position.
Then resume his own midfield role when Tav is back defending.Which Tav should do as soon as play breaks down .
We need Sterling to first and foremost control the midfield and that involves more than just taking out Maeda and being defensive.Sterling has to be aggressive in his forward play in that role imo.
Tavs forays should just be raids end off and back pronto.
 
Davie Weir said:
Those attributes are far more useful in the midfield 3 when it comes to an old firm imo. The game is won and lost in midfield and we need to learn from our mistakes. The midfield 3 should be Lundstram, Diomande and Sterling.

A controlled and balanced midfield 3 which can run and dominate.

Playing a balanced 3 in midfield should provide cover for the fullbacks.

Imo we need to return to Gerrardball to beat them.
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Agree on paper if you're picking a midfield 3 then that's probably the most solid trio you can pick providing the lads either side of lundrstram are prepared to do the dirty defensive work when needed in terms of helping both full backs out defensively. I'm looking at where they can hurt us the most and down both flanks, especially down our right has been glaring in recent games.

Going to be fascinating how Phil sets us up next week. There will be meltdown on here no doubt whatever he does. I don't envy him trying to strike the right balance next week because a win is non negotiable, but chasing it too early with this bunch of players could see them put us out of sight before we've even gained a foothold in the game. I'd go as solid as possible early doors then bring in either cantwell or Lawrence later in the 2nd half to try and win the game late on for us.
 
Blue bells are blue1872 said:
This is something that Sterling should do as cover until Tav is back in position.
Then resume his own midfield role when Tav is back defending.Which Tav should do as soon as play breaks down .
We need Sterling to first and foremost control the midfield and that involves more than just taking out Maeda and being defensive.Sterling has to be aggressive in his forward play in that role imo.
Tavs forays should just be raids end off and back pronto.
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But he struggles to get back and it’s a 2 on 1 situation or tav does go forward but we take him off of corners and certain free kicks aswell except the ones that have an opportunity to score from
 
I would be in favour of some kind of curve ball, not sure if it would be this right enough.

More of the same ain’t going to get it done it would be reasonable to assume.
 
I know options are limited but I’d play Sterling in CM alongside Lundstram. We can’t afford to get overrun in the middle of the pitch and don’t think a midfield 3 of Cantwell, Diomande and Lundstram will be strong enough

I’d have Diomande in the attacking mid position in front of those 2
 
Tavernier has been going through a terrible run of form.

Celtic game - mistake in the first minute and many other lose passes.

Dundee he’s moving towards left back position and leaves dundees left winger in acres of space in the first few minutes. Saved by Butland.

Ross county caught out of position for 2 of the goals.

St Mirren two terrible mistakes in the opening stages.

Yesterday he left the Kilmarnock winger unmarked before putting the ball into the net.

Maeda targets him and St Mirren also openly admitted to him being the weak point in the media on the day of the game.

I’d have Sterling at right back.
 
MancGer86 said:
Why are you so convinced that Sterling is the answer to that?

Genuine question not picking an argument. Lots of clamour for Sterling centrally and I'm not sure I'm on board with it. Help me understand! What does he offer that none of the other midfielders do?
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Our most dominant period of the season was when he was playing centrally and running through absolutely everyone we played.
 
It’s been covered hundreds of times and explain by managers and Tav as well.

Tav doesn’t have the skill set to be a winger, his words and backed by managers. He’s at his best when coming up the pitch from deeper and making the runs when he sees the space. Moving him further limits his vision, we are seeing it slightly now when he is asked to tuck into the middle rather than overlapping down the line.

If we want Sterling behind him then it’s got to be a back 3 or 5, give Tav the full wing and Sterling coming out and covering. Liked Beale did at the start of the season to see out games.
 
Sterling is a centre mid all day long. His strength is his high energy and strength in the tackle.

His crossing isn't good enough to play fullback.
 
1978RFC. said:
Not sure why we don’t try this but seems like an immediate solve to a problem, Sterling clearly prefers the defensive side of things, Tav clearly excels going forward.

Just switch them round and we have a more sound defence and a right sided forward player who knows that side of the game and his way to goal
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Are you serious ,putting Tav who is struggling as a defender ,losing pace by the season with no basic midfield skills up against them ,honestly mate the mind boggles at that.
 
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jefftracy said:
Sorry, but I don't agree. Loads of players over the years have moved into other positions after long careers in one position. Just look when we are chasing a game the amount of times he is pushed further up to try and get something. Not saying it's perfect but at the moment he is probably a better finisher than any other fit member of the team. If he stays with us it cannot be as RB, just about every team we play target that area, with success, and it then has an effect on team selection to try and protect that area.
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It isn't going to happen mate
 
jefftracy said:
Sorry, but I don't agree. Loads of players over the years have moved into other positions after long careers in one position. Just look when we are chasing a game the amount of times he is pushed further up to try and get something. Not saying it's perfect but at the moment he is probably a better finisher than any other fit member of the team. If he stays with us it cannot be as RB, just about every team we play target that area, with success, and it then has an effect on team selection to try and protect that area.
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What don't you agree with? My comment said he's a right back and that he will remain a right back. What part of that are you disagreeing with? He's not a right back? We aren't going to play him upfront mate trust me.
 
GioVanBee said:
Tavernier has been going through a terrible run of form.

Celtic game - mistake in the first minute and many other lose passes.

Dundee he’s moving towards left back position and leaves dundees left winger in acres of space in the first few minutes. Saved by Butland.

Ross county caught out of position for 2 of the goals.

St Mirren two terrible mistakes in the opening stages.

Yesterday he left the Kilmarnock winger unmarked before putting the ball into the net.

Maeda targets him and St Mirren also openly admitted to him being the weak point in the media on the day of the game.
Vve mate
I’d have Sterling at right back.
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I don't think it would make any difference how much evidence you have mate,and you pointed out plenty some people just don't want to see it
 
1978RFC. said:
He doesn’t play back at RB anyway so he is well versed at being in a forward postion
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Yes, it’s the same thing.
You heard the one that says “it’s better for people to think you know nothing about football than to post on FF and remove any doubt”?
 
1978RFC. said:
Yeah imagine putting a high scoring non defensive right back further forward and a non scoring defensive right back at right back.

The horror and absolute logic is ridiculous
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Tav has been tried there before, against them funnily enough, and it didn't remotely work because his position is right back.
 
1978RFC. said:
Not sure why we don’t try this but seems like an immediate solve to a problem, Sterling clearly prefers the defensive side of things, Tav clearly excels going forward.

Just switch them round and we have a more sound defence and a right sided forward player who knows that side of the game and his way to goal
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I’d certainly be asking Sterling to play deeper and double up with Tav in protecting our right hand side. We need to see the first 30mins through without giving them anything in the first half and then the first 15mins of the 2nd half….we tend to fair better than them in the latter stages! So keeping tight and not starting slow as we tend to do is massive for us!!
 
Phil'ieve said:
What don't you agree with? My comment said he's a right back and that he will remain a right back. What part of that are you disagreeing with? He's not a right back? We aren't going to play him upfront mate trust me.
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I agree he's a right back but that doesn't mean forever. I think we need new blood at RB. Do you think Tav should remain RB and also do you not think he is capable of changing position? Modern footballers have to be flexible and comfortable in different areas of the pitch.
 
jefftracy said:
I agree he's a right back but that doesn't mean forever. I think we need new blood at RB. Do you think Tav should remain RB and also do you not think he is capable of changing position? Modern footballers have to be flexible and comfortable in different areas of the pitch.
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I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place when it comes to whether we should keep Tav. He's both exceptional and woeful. But I wouldn't play him further up. I get what you're saying he has attacking qualities but he has those qualities based on coming from right back, he's played there his whole career. That's where hes used to being in games. People don't realise that mindset and that he'd be all over the place positionally if you asked him to play further up. It's not as easy as you think mate. It's a kinda obvious suggestion so I understand it, he's great going forward and not great defending but like I said it's obvious so all his managers who know him allot better than us would've contemplated the idea and there's a reason none of them have done it yet. Our last few managers have all been lacking a right winger yet none of them have played Tav there. That is quite telling
 
Phil'ieve said:
I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place when it comes to whether we should keep Tav. He's both exceptional and woeful. But I wouldn't play him further up. I get what you're saying he has attacking qualities but he has those qualities based on coming from right back, he's played there his whole career. That's where hes used to being in games. People don't realise that mindset and that he'd be all over the place positionally if you asked him to play further up. It's not as easy as you think mate. It's a kinda obvious suggestion so I understand it, he's great going forward and not great defending but like I said it's obvious so all his managers who know him allot better than us would've contemplated the idea and there's a reason none of them have done it yet. Our last few managers have all been lacking a right winger yet none of them have played Tav there. That is quite telling
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We're getting closer. You're right, thinking a player can change a position he's played his whole career at could well be difficult and maybe won't work. However, my thoughts are that Tav simply can't remain as RB and if there is still a future for him here then it will be further forward. As I posted earlier, any time we're chasing a game Tav is the one who is pushed way up, whether this can work in normal play is open to debate.
 
jefftracy said:
We're getting closer. You're right, thinking a player can change a position he's played his whole career at could well be difficult and maybe won't work. However, my thoughts are that Tav simply can't remain as RB and if there is still a future for him here then it will be further forward. As I posted earlier, any time we're chasing a game Tav is the one who is pushed way up, whether this can work in normal play is open to debate.
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I believe it will be he either leaves or stays first choice RB mate
 
jefftracy said:
We're getting closer. You're right, thinking a player can change a position he's played his whole career at could well be difficult and maybe won't work. However, my thoughts are that Tav simply can't remain as RB and if there is still a future for him here then it will be further forward. As I posted earlier, any time we're chasing a game Tav is the one who is pushed way up, whether this can work in normal play is open to debate.
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What allot of people don't realise is he's quite often played a pivotal part in why we need to chase the game in the first place. People keep talking about his goals but how many of them have compensated for his own errors... I know you agree I'm just saying. I love the guy and he's a legend for me, but I just think it's time to move on.
 
MancGer86 said:
Why are you so convinced that Sterling is the answer to that?

Genuine question not picking an argument. Lots of clamour for Sterling centrally and I'm not sure I'm on board with it. Help me understand! What does he offer that none of the other midfielders do?
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Pace, stamina, aggression and composure. The other 2 will play much better with Sterling in beside them.
 
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