Tav - Lets try and stay positive

Vamos_buffalo

Well-Known Member
I’m a big fan of Tav and always try my best at defending him.

Yes he’s cost us a few big goals this season but some of the absolute nonsense I’ve read on here about him is absolutely dreadful.

People need to try and remember last season how good he was for us and the majority of our good attacking play came from him.

He seems to be going through some sort of mental block at the moment. Maybe instead of the “strip him of the captaincy” brigade continue to hound him, why don’t we try and give him full support as we all know he has the ability to turn it round.

You don’t just become shite over night

And let’s be honest if our Managers sticking by him I think we should maybe at least give it a go
 
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ZvP

Well-Known Member
I've always defended Tav when given the opportunity as well - but we don't have the time to give people a pass based on what they've done in the past. We need all 11 players on the pitching firing on all cylinders on a consistent basis to win this league.

You can argue that it would be poor man management to remove the captaincy from Tav but you could also argue that it could be the making of him. Does Gerrard tell him he's moving the captaincy to someone more consistent who can lead the others by example, say Steven Davis? Does he ask him to prove that he can again become the consistent player that he was last season and regain that captaincy?

His defending has been woeful this season and going forward, yesterday especially, he hasn't been much better. He certainly needs to dig himself out the holes he's in, it's just a matter of how he and Gerrard manage that.
 

Drumchapel-Bear

Well-Known Member
His mistakes recently have been verging on unforgivable but Tav has enough credit in the bank for us all to bite our tongue here, be patient and allow him to play himself back into form. As you say, you don't become a bad player overnight and he's still the best right back in Scotland.

DeGea had an even worse spell than this last season for Man Utd when he was flinging balls in the net every other week for what felt like ages.

Gerrard will stick by him and that's the right decision imo.
 

Vamos_buffalo

Well-Known Member
I've always defended Tav when given the opportunity as well - but we don't have the time to give people a pass based on what they've done in the past. We need all 11 players on the pitching firing on all cylinders on a consistent basis to win this league.

You can argue that it would be poor man management to remove the captaincy from Tav but you could also argue that it could be the making of him. Does Gerrard tell him he's moving the captaincy to someone more consistent who can lead the others by example, say Steven Davis? Does he ask him to prove that he can again become the consistent player that he was last season and regain that captaincy?

His defending has been woeful this season and going forward, yesterday especially, he hasn't been much better. He certainly needs to dig himself out the holes he's in, it's just a matter of how he and Gerrard manage that.
Before stripping someone of the captaincy, do you not think giving him a break on the bench first?

This stripping of the captaincy is nonsense

So because Davis, Jack and mcgregor (who I’ve seen mentioned to replace him as captain) don’t currently wear the armband means they can’t be leaders?

You don’t need a bit of material around your arm to be a leader and shout instructions
 

mkgers

Well-Known Member
Stripping him of the captaincy is a ridiuclous claim to make from the outside. Gerrard obviously considers Tav's overall qualities to be befitting of a captain - in that I trust his judgement.

With regard to his form, I have been an avid Tav fan and defender but right now it's just not working. The longer this goes on the harder it will likely be for him to break free from it. I think a break will do him the world of good and as others have suggested perhaps some work with a psychologist could help him overcome his mental block. It might also remind to us just how vital he is to the way we play as was clear in the game or two he missed at the end of last season.
 

ZvP

Well-Known Member
Before stripping someone of the captaincy, do you not think giving him a break on the bench first?

This stripping of the captaincy is nonsense

So because Davis, Jack and mcgregor (who I’ve seen mentioned to replace him as captain) don’t currently wear the armband means they can’t be leaders?

You don’t need a bit of material around your arm to be a leader and shout instructions
I'm not advocating that we make someone else captain right away but it should be a consideration if he doesn't improve. Is he undroppable because he is the captain? I'm all for giving Flanagan a run of games as defensively he is the better player. We lose that attacking outlet that Tav provides but we should have enough in midfield and the forward players to make up for that - Tav hasn't exactly been firing on all cylinders going forward.

Gerrard has mentioned that no one is undroppable and that individual errors every now and again wasn't worthy of a player being dropped. Tav is now progressing into a run of bad form and he needs something concrete that lets him know that from Gerrard - he needs time away from the pressures of delivering for the first team and allow someone else to come in until he's ready and hungry enough to get back to playing at his best.

I just feel like I shouldn't be feeling this resentful towards the captain of Rangers Football Club on a consistent basis.
 

Its-Sebo

Well-Known Member
I'm a huge Tav supporter and revelled in his form last season (and the season before) because I felt like a pig in shît amongst so many Tav-detractors.

But I have to take my medicine this season because he's been shîte so far.

There's no doubt in my mind that he's a great player, but the only way he'll get people back onside is to improve his form. Well, get most people back on side, because there are some that simply don't like him.
 

nublu2u

New Member
But he isn’t a captain is he? The leader on and off the park, sorry it’s a no from me. Decent player in there, but not a Rangers captain. Classic yesterday at the death, freekick in a promising postion, he’s had a howler of a game so should be big enough to step aside and lot Borna swing it in, but no, he just puts in his umpteenth poor cross.

Barisic would have been dropped if he cost us the games Tav has, too many vital mistakes.
 

Vamos_buffalo

Well-Known Member
I'm not advocating that we make someone else captain right away but it should be a consideration if he doesn't improve. Is he undroppable because he is the captain? I'm all for giving Flanagan a run of games as defensively he is the better player. We lose that attacking outlet that Tav provides but we should have enough in midfield and the forward players to make up for that - Tav hasn't exactly been firing on all cylinders going forward.

Gerrard has mentioned that no one is undroppable and that individual errors every now and again wasn't worthy of a player being dropped. Tav is now progressing into a run of bad form and he needs something concrete that lets him know that from Gerrard - he needs time away from the pressures of delivering for the first team and allow someone else to come in until he's ready and hungry enough to get back to playing at his best.

I just feel like I shouldn't be feeling this resentful towards the captain of Rangers Football Club on a consistent basis.
Agree to an extent with what your saying but right now we don’t really have anyone else to bring in to replace him.

Flanagan has been injured since mid September so your talking the best part of another 4 weeks until he’s back upto match sharpness.

As for Polster, if Gerrard fancied him as a RB I’d imagine he’d maybe of put him on for Tav when we’ve been coasting games. i.e Hamilton and Aberdeen
 

Maweepaljoe

Well-Known Member
His mistakes recently have been verging on unforgivable but Tav has enough credit in the bank for us all to bite our tongue here, be patient and allow him to play himself back into form. As you say, you don't become a bad player overnight and he's still the best right back in Scotland.

DeGea had an even worse spell than this last season for Man Utd when he was flinging balls in the net every other week for what felt like ages.

Gerrard will stick by him and that's the right decision imo.
How did last season turn out for Man United?
 

Vamos_buffalo

Well-Known Member
But he isn’t a captain is he? The leader on and off the park, sorry it’s a no from me. Decent player in there, but not a Rangers captain. Classic yesterday at the death, freekick in a promising postion, he’s had a howler of a game so should be big enough to step aside and lot Borna swing it in, but no, he just puts in his umpteenth poor cross.

Barisic would have been dropped if he cost us the games Tav has, too many vital mistakes.
I think I’ll leave that judgement to our Manager, you know that guy Steven Gerrard, who captained Liverpool and England and won many major trophies.
 

StirlingGer

Well-Known Member
He has costs us major 2 games in a row, then last kick of the ball takes a freekick off Barisic and blooters it miles away. He needs to have a week off.
 

Tito

Well-Known Member
There's a chunk of our support who have never liked him and never will sadly.

Flanagan has became Cafu the longer he's been out.
It's probably an accurate comparison to be fair. Flanagan has about the same forward mobility as a 49 year old!
 

Mcphail1872

Active Member
Official Ticketer
In any high end sport you are only as good as your last game. Whether he was good last season with x amount of assists and goals is irrelevant - we as a TEAM won nothing, making no finals and ending 9 points away from them. He is making costly mistakes that cannot be forgotten due to how he played last year. He is a defender first and foremost which he needs to work on and do basic positioning much better. Celtic Away lost possession, Young boys lost possession 1st goal then allowed the cross 2nd goal went with his wrong leg across his body - if he moved his feet sideways he clears with left foot, Hearts diving header 2 foot off the ground again could clear with his left foot those are high profile mistakes that cannot be forgotten.

Team game by all means but it comes down to individual errors for each goal conceded and Tav has cost us too many this season already in quick succession.
 

wilso10

Well-Known Member
You can only take so many errors. Time for a wee spell on the bench to get his confidence back.
I'm seriously struggling to understand how dropping a player to the bench will help get his confidence back.

The only way he can do that is by bouncing back strongly and putting in a solid performance this Thursday.
 

RFC4ME

Well-Known Member
Yesterday was the first time he let a mistake impact and go deeper than his performance to be fair.

He looked dross after that error - unlike him.
 

Danger Zone

Just the tip...
I think I’ll leave that judgement to our Manager, you know that guy Steven Gerrard, who captained Liverpool and England and won many major trophies.
I’m guessing you felt the same way when we were lead by McCoist, who had a trophy laden career as a player. Obviously what McCoist achieved as a player meant that he couldn’t possibly get it wrong in the dugout.

This whole “Gerrard’s captained Liverpool so don’t dare question him” stance is unbelievably tiresome. For me he’s doing a a really good job, but he’s made mistakes and will make more mistakes and fans are perfectly entitled to ask questions when that happens. When he starts delivering trophies then there’ll more ground for saying “he’s brought us success so let’s just trust him unconditionally”, but until then...
 

Vamos_buffalo

Well-Known Member
I’m guessing you felt the same way when we were lead by McCoist, who had a trophy laden career as a player. Obviously what McCoist achieved as a player meant that he couldn’t possibly get it wrong in the dugout.

This whole “Gerrard’s captained Liverpool so don’t dare question him” stance is unbelievably tiresome. For me he’s doing a a really good job, but he’s made mistakes and will make more mistakes and fans are perfectly entitled to ask questions when that happens. When he starts delivering trophies then there’ll more ground for saying “he’s brought us success so let’s just trust him unconditionally”, but until then...
My point is, Gerrard knows what qualities are needed in a captain and he obviously sees something in him that none of the Football Manager experts on here see
 

pelem

Well-Known Member
There's a chunk of our support who have never liked him and never will sadly.

Flanagan has became Cafu the longer he's been out.


What, as opposed to the blue cafu that tavernier seems to have been tagged.

Stop yankin your chain.
 

Blastie Bear

Well-Known Member
Tav is going through a bad spell, but I have faith in him turning it around. Im pretty sure this time last season there were doubts over him, but by the end of the season he was getting praised.
 

Danger Zone

Just the tip...
My point is, Gerrard knows what qualities are needed in a captain and he obviously sees something in him that none of the Football Manager experts on here see
Brilliant, but until his chosen leader actually leads us to success then we can all be sceptical, particularly at this moment in time where he’s a massive liability.
 
His confidence looks shot but, let's be clear, those defensive mistakes aren't down to confidence. Poor decision making and intelligence are factors that has and always will affect his game.
If he had those attributes, he'd be playing for England.
 

sw26

Well-Known Member
Tav is going through a bad spell, but I have faith in him turning it around. Im pretty sure this time last season there were doubts over him, but by the end of the season he was getting praised.
I don’t remember him gifting goals like sweeties with the regularity he has done this season, that’s the issue.
 

RenfrewBear72

Well-Known Member
I try my best to stay positive but he is costing us more than he is contributing now.
If we are being frank and honest he has been a 5/10 since the start of the season, at best, and has cost us a few big goals.
The odd mistake against the Hamiltons of the league won't matter but it's the big games it's consistently him that makes a c*nt of it and his distribution has been fuckin chronic.
Why he hit that free kick at the death yesterday no one can explain.
 

Alex Venters

Well-Known Member
I’m a big fan of Tav and always try my best at defending him.

Yes he’s cost us a few big goals this season but some of the absolute nonsense I’ve read on here about him is absolutely dreadful.

People need to try and remember last season how good he was for us and the majority of our good attacking play came from him.

He seems to be going through some sort of mental block at the moment. Maybe instead of the “strip him of the captaincy” brigade continue to hound him, why don’t we try and give him full support as we all know he has the ability to turn it round.

You don’t just become shite over night

And let’s be honest if our Managers sticking by him I think we should maybe at least give it a go
Positivity is all well and good but when it starts to cost us points and games then surely the situation has to be addressed. Unless, of course, you think Tav's need is greater than the teams?

Now, I'm sure you don't think we should prioritise one individual over the whole team. I truly believe that the best thing for Tav at this particular moment is to be taken out of the firing line. Can you imagine the scenario whereby he costs us points on Thursday with another error?
The least bad option is to try an alternative, be it Flanagan, Polster or even going with three centre backs for a spell.
To continue as we are is only asking for trouble, in my opinion.
We need a fit and on form Tav back in our team. What we have at present is a pale imitation of that.
 

Vamos_buffalo

Well-Known Member
Positivity is all well and good but when it starts to cost us points and games then surely the situation has to be addressed. Unless, of course, you think Tav's need is greater than the teams?

Now, I'm sure you don't think we should prioritise one individual over the whole team. I truly believe that the best thing for Tav at this particular moment is to be taken out of the firing line. Can you imagine the scenario whereby he costs us points on Thursday with another error?
The least bad option is to try an alternative, be it Flanagan, Polster or even going with three centre backs for a spell.
To continue as we are is only asking for trouble, in my opinion.
We need a fit and on form Tav back in our team. What we have at present is a pale imitation of that.
There seems to be not one player available to replace him.

Flanagan has been injured since September and he obviously fancies Polster as a midfielder
 

Johnoblue

Active Member
I’m a big fan of Tav and always try my best at defending him.

Yes he’s cost us a few big goals this season but some of the absolute nonsense I’ve read on here about him is absolutely dreadful.

People need to try and remember last season how good he was for us going for and the majority of our good attacking play came from him.

He seems to be going through some sort of mental block at the moment. Maybe instead of the “strip him of the captaincy” brigade continue to hound him, why don’t we try and give him full support as we all know he has the ability to turn it round.

You don’t just become shite over night

And let’s be honest if our Managers sticking by him I think we should maybe at least give it a go
He needs to be taken out of the firing line, I am sure he is feeling the strain, his capabilities as a defender are highly questionable, he has cost us in two big games recently, if we persevere I believe he will cost us more points, I also believe that some supporters are expecting and waiting for the next blunder that's why they are so critical and so quick to get on his case, the problem for Tav is he is not letting them down.
With regards to the captaincy, Id be inclined trust the manager far more that anyone on here.
 

Alex Venters

Well-Known Member
There seems to be not one player available to replace him.

Flanagan has been injured since September and he obviously fancies Polster as a midfielder
Flanagan is now fit,though obviously not match fit.
I'm sure Polster could deputise at RB.
To continue as we are is not, for me, an acceptable option.
 

Installer

Well-Known Member
James Tavernier is the best Captain since Davie Weir and the best right back since Gary Stevens.

I also think based solely on memory of the replay's at the time (would be good if someone could link to the goals) that yesterday's goal was more Goldson's fault that Taverniers.

When the ball came over I believe Tavernier thought Goldson was going for it this is why he was slow to react to it and got caught out.
A solid CH would have been right through a ball coming across his line like that.

As I said if I see a replay and I'm wrong I'll happily admit it, till then I then Goldson is getting away with it.


Sure he is going through a tough patch and not playing at his best but some of the abuse the guy get on here is shocking, I though we had rules about that on this forum.
 

Danger Zone

Just the tip...
James Tavernier is the best Captain since Davie Weir and the best right back since Gary Stevens.

I also think based solely on memory of the replay's at the time (would be good if someone could link to the goals) that yesterday's goal was more Goldson's fault that Taverniers.

When the ball came over I believe Tavernier thought Goldson was going for it this is why he was slow to react to it and got caught out.
A solid CH would have been right through a ball coming across his line like that.

As I said if I see a replay and I'm wrong I'll happily admit it, till then I then Goldson is getting away with it.


Sure he is going through a tough patch and not playing at his best but some of the abuse the guy get on here is shocking, I though we had rules about that on this forum.
Are you James Tavernier?
 
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