The Aulde Enemy - England

NotOffside said:
Guardiola said while being asked about Foden after the game this evening " I don't want to say anything wrong, but Gareth Southgate has incredible talent for the national team in his hands..."

I think some people are still unwilling to give England the credit they deserve for having some fantastic talent coming through right now. Seems to be an easy thing for some to call all English players over-rated. Of course, some of their players have been and are over-rated but isn't that the same for every nation?

Personally I think Guardiola is spot on. When you think about Foden, who looked every bit as City player already this evening, and then the likes of Greenwood who looks a serious talent, Sancho who looks like a future star and Saka who looks a big talent for Arsenal, and add to that Alexander-Arnold, Rashford and Sterling then I don't think anyone can genuinely say that don't have a very promising and exciting side. They might not win anything as there's a few other Nations with a lot of good young talent, but there's a reason their youth teams were winning competitions and tournaments a couple of years back, and they look like a very good side in the making.
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It wont matter they will go out on penalties when they meet the Germans:D
 
NotOffside said:
It’s all fun and games anyway. This is just a forum and a sport at the end of the day and there’s far worse things to worry about in the world right now than squabbling here. I genuinely wish safety and nice things to you all, Danger Zone included!

I do think there’s a fair bit of anti-English pish here that I suppose stems from jealousy that I find pretty cringe. Genuinely feels like you can’t rate any English player without getting called out for it by a few. But it is what it is.
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I'm certainly not anti-English, but I'd say English football/The EPL is vastly over-hyped, and has been for basically all of my lifetime.

As I said in a previous thread a couple of weeks ago, a lot of this can be put down to the bampottery of the English press, who sometimes remind me of the dumplings up here with laptops, and their blinkered view of the filth.

And I suppose that lends a certain schadenfreude for a lot of punters, when the English almost inevitably fail when hyped up to the max.

Mind you, there's been something of a softly-softly approach by a lot of the English press in the last couple of majors. Almost like; 'Ssh, if we don't go overboard beforehand maybe the team will perform better..' That's not worked out too well for them either, has it?

I'll take your word for it, that there are a few English youngsters on the cusp of true greatness. I don't pay attention too much other than watching MOTD,

However, I'll truly believe it when I see it.
 
Thankfully their tactically inept manager will ensure they won't be winning anything anytime soon.

"Anti-English pish"? Wow, I can't believe a forum for a Scottish football team might harbour some resentment against a country that is their historical footballing rival.
 
Danger Zone said:
We hear this every single year about England. It’s been a common theme since I was a wean and they always prove to be overhyped. There’s always a determination to heap pressure on young English lads right away if they start off well, that and hyping them up to levels above their true ability.
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Del Ali of Spurs a perfect example, decent player but well overhyped just like many as you said
 
NotOffside said:
Where? Where have I said Greenwood is a superstar? Where have I said he’s world-class? You continue to make up things out of the blue just to suit your own argument.
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I've had my tuppenceworth on this thread already, especially regards the over-hyping of English players/International squads down the decades. and will readily admit I'd never heard of this boy Greenwood, before reading these posts.

That may say a lot about my narrow and blinkered view, which has became even more limited and restricted since 2012.

However, I watched the first game on MOTD last night and lo and behold I finally cottoned onto who this boy Greenwood is.

The power in both feet for his two goals was something to see in one so young and at that level. Albeit, Bournemouth are going down so obviously not the strongest of opposition yesterday. But that cannot detract from the way he took his chances.

I will wholeheartedly agree with you, this boy looks a top notch prospect.

Fowler and Owen were special at that age, Owen possibly even just slightly younger, but based on what I saw last night, if this boy Greenwood continues to mature and improve on this already precocious potential, Man Utd will have something very special on their hands for years to come.
 
wee bud's pit boots said:
I've had my tuppenceworth on this thread already, especially regards the over-hyping of English players/International squads down the decades. and will readily admit I'd never heard of this boy Greenwood, before reading these posts.

That may say a lot about my narrow and blinkered view, which has became even more limited and restricted since 2012.

However, I watched the first game on MOTD last night and lo and behold I finally cottoned onto who this boy Greenwood is.

The power in both feet for his two goals was something to see in one so young and at that level. Albeit, Bournemouth are going down so obviously not the strongest of opposition yesterday. But that cannot detract from the way he took his chances.

I will wholeheartedly agree with you, this boy looks a top notch prospect.

Fowler and Owen were special at that age, Owen possibly even just slightly younger, but based on what I saw last night, if this boy Greenwood continues to mature and improve on this already precocious potential, Man Utd will have something very special on their hands for years to come.
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It’s quite clear to most that the boy is incredibly talented. He’s 18 and has a goal to games ratio of better than one every two playing for a huge club in one of the best leagues in the world, regardless of whether you like the EPL or not. But for one or two numpties here whether it’s through bitterness or jealousy, or something I just don’t understand, they simply refuse to acknowledge that England have some seriously gifted young players right now that are amongst the best young players in Europe. And apparently if you do have this opinion then that makes you some sort of closet England fan. It’s so pathetic it’s rather sad really.
 
I think the main issue with England isn’t that they aren’t capable of producing some great talent, but that they don’t have the mindset of winners. Ultimately this is why they lose crunch games to Germany and Argentina and Portugal, etc - because deep down they don’t really believe they can win.

I also feel they have consistently lacked a player who can genuinely be considered one of the best four or five players on the planet.

When was the last time England produced a player of that calibre?

Meanwhile we’ve had Cruyff, Platini, Zidane, Baggio, Gullit, Iniesta, Ronaldo, etc, all helping their countries to major honours and finals.

Chances are this current crop will falter exactly as their predecessors have through a mixture of hyperbole and that collective lack of self belief.
 
HandsomeHead said:
I think the main issue with England isn’t that they aren’t capable of producing some great talent, but that they don’t have the mindset of winners. Ultimately this is why they lose crunch games to Germany and Argentina and Portugal, etc - because deep down they don’t really believe they can win.

I also feel they have consistently lacked a player who can genuinely be considered one of the best four or five players on the planet.

When was the last time England produced a player of that calibre?

Meanwhile we’ve had Cruyff, Platini, Zidane, Baggio, Gullit, Iniesta, Ronaldo, etc, all helping their countries to major honours and finals.

Chances are this current crop will falter exactly as their predecessors have through a mixture of hyperbole and that collective lack of self belief.
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They’ve already shown though that they can make Semi’s at World Cups. Yes, they had a favourable draw. But even in the loss against Croatia they showed they belonged at that level as Croatia hardly blew them away. England lost by one goal in a game where they had chances to go 2 up and we’re comfortably the better team in the first half. That was also without Alexander-Arnold, Foden, Sancho etc, so they should be a much better side in the coming years than they were in 2018.

I’ve never once said they should be favourites to win anything. France have a scarily good squad and then there’s also other teams with a lot of talent in Europe alone such as Belgium, Portugal and Netherlands. But nobody can convince me that a side that has there attacking potential doesn’t stand at least a chance.

England have also beaten Croatia since, and also Spain in Spain. Some might try to argue that it was only the Nations League. But both Croatia and Spain played there strongest possible 11 at that time, as did England, which shows that teams took the tournament seriously and played to win.
 
NotOffside said:
They’ve already shown though that they can make Semi’s at World Cups. Yes, they had a favourable draw. But even in the loss against Croatia they showed they belonged at that level as Croatia hardly blew them away. England lost by one goal in a game where they had chances to go 2 up and we’re comfortably the better team in the first half. That was also without Alexander-Arnold, Foden, Sancho etc, so they should be a much better side in the coming years than they were in 2018.

I’ve never once said they should be favourites to win anything. France have a scarily good squad and then there’s also other teams with a lot of talent in Europe alone such as Belgium, Portugal and Netherlands. But nobody can convince me that a side that has there attacking potential doesn’t stand at least a chance.
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If people want to believe their semi final appearance two years ago shows they’re capable of competing at that level, go right ahead. I live in England and don’t know anyone who didn’t feel they were lucky to get as far as they did.

When they played Belgium in the 3rd place playoff (admittedly a bit of a pointless affair) they were made to look like the average team they are.

I agree that the prospects they have are encouraging, but they have been in the past too and it just never seems to happen for them.

I think that’s to do with more than just talent alone.
 
HandsomeHead said:
If people want to believe their semi final appearance two years ago shows they’re capable of competing at that level, go right ahead. I live in England and don’t know anyone who didn’t feel they were lucky to get as far as they did.

When they played Belgium in the 3rd place playoff (admittedly a bit of a pointless affair) they were made to look like the average team they are.

I agree that the prospects they have are encouraging, but they have been in the past too and it just never seems to happen for them.

I think that’s to do with more than just talent alone.
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Just because Belgium we’re a better side than England doesn’t mean much at all. They are one of the best teams in the World. There was also nothing lucky about it whatsoever. They deservedly beat the teams they won against, the likes of Columbia and Sweden. They had a fortunate draw but they hadn’t beaten Sweden for something like 20/30 years and it was a big thing for them to dispatch them in a quarter-final, as it was to get through a penalty shoot out against Colombia.

As I’ve said before, I know there’s people on this forum and here in Scotland that wouldn’t be big enough to swallow a bit of pride and say fair play to England even if they did win something. It would only be because the other sides didn’t show up, or forgot to eat their Weetabix on the morning...
 
It’s good to see some talented home grown players, and they do have some crackers, like Foden, Greenwood and Alexander Arnold to name but three, whereas in Scotland we have produced zilch.
 
NotOffside said:
Just because Belgium we’re a better side than England doesn’t mean much at all. They are one of the best teams in the World. There was also nothing lucky about it whatsoever. They deservedly beat the teams they won against, the likes of Columbia and Sweden. They had a fortunate draw but they hadn’t beaten Sweden for something like 20/30 years and it was a big thing for them to dispatch them in a quarter-final, as it was to get through a penalty’s shoot out against Colombia.

As I’ve said before, I know there’s people on this forum and here in Scotland that wouldn’t be big enough to swallow a bit of pride and say fair play to England even if they did win something. It would be because the other sides didn’t show up, or forgot to eat their Weetabix on the morning...
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Belgium were ranked #1 at the time.
 
temperance said:
Belgium were ranked #1 at the time.
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Exactly. My point being that losing to Belgium is hardly a tragedy or makes England a bad team back then.

For what it’s worth had they have got past Croatia I think they would have lost comfortably against France in the final as they were looking a very tired and mentally fatigued side. And France were just better. But a semi final is a semi final and also what they did after in the Nations League showed that they are a team that’s improving all the time. And with the talent they have coming through it would be silly not to think they can only get better.
 
temperance said:
It’s good to see some talented home grown players, and they do have some crackers, like Foden, Greenwood and Alexander Arnold to name but three, whereas in Scotland we have produced zilch.
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Gilmour will be a fantastic wee player. Our national team will probably ruin him though!
 
NotOffside said:
Just because Belgium we’re a better side than England doesn’t mean much at all. They are one of the best teams in the World. There was also nothing lucky about it whatsoever. They deservedly beat the teams they won against, the likes of Columbia and Sweden. They had a fortunate draw but they hadn’t beaten Sweden for something like 20/30 years and it was a big thing for them to dispatch them in a quarter-final, as it was to get through a penalty’s shoot out against Colombia.

As I’ve said before, I know there’s people on this forum and here in Scotland that wouldn’t be big enough to swallow a bit of pride and say fair play to England even if they did win something. It would be because the other sides didn’t show up, or forgot to eat their Weetabix on the morning...
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You’re admitting they had a favourable draw and that Belgium are a better team, and that’s more or less my point here - that their showing at the last World Cup flattered to deceive.

Expectations were unusually low in the run up to that tournament so the fact they did better than expected allowed them to get a bit carried away with themselves again.

They’re the great underachievers of world football. They absolutely should be doing better than they have, but I remain to be convinced this new crop of talent will amount to anything more than their predecessors have in the last fifty years.
 
HandsomeHead said:
You’re admitting they had a favourable draw and that Belgium are a better team, and that’s more or less my point here - that their showing at the last World Cup flattered to deceive.

Expectations were unusually low in the run up to that tournament so the fact they did better than expected allowed them to get a bit carried away with themselves again.

They’re the great underachievers of world football. They absolutely should be doing better than they have, but I remain to be convinced this new crop of talent will amount to anything more than their predecessors have in the last fifty years.
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They were fortunate with the draw but I don’t see how they got lucky in making a semi. You can only beat who’s in front of you. They ultimately lost to the tournaments favourites in Belgium, in a game neither wanted to play in, and lost by one goal against a very good Croatia team at that time where the only difference was Modric.

They under achieved for years in the past largely because the players they had didn’t enjoy playing with each other because of the fierceness of club rivalry. Individual talent will win you nothing. A team that’s together and has a great team spirit can take you very far, as it did Wales in Euro 2016 and also Greece who won it earlier this century. It’s pretty clear to me that they now have a much better team spirit within their squad under Southgate than they had before in my life time and that along with the talent they have will stand them in good stead.
 
NotOffside said:
They were fortunate with the draw but I don’t see how they got lucky in making a semi. You can only beat who’s in front of you. They ultimately lost to the tournaments favourites in Belgium, in a game neither wanted to play in, and lost by one goal against a very good Croatia team at that time where the only difference was Modric.

They under achieved for years in the past largely because the players they had didn’t enjoy playing with each other because of the fierceness of club rivalry. Individual talent will win you nothing. A team that’s together and has a great team spirit can take you very far, as it did Wales in Euro 2016 and also Greece who won it earlier this century. It’s pretty clear to me that they now have a much better team spirit within their squad under Southgate than they had before in my life time and that along with the talent they have will stand them in good stead.
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The club rivalry argument for their failure is nonsense quite frankly. Spain, Germany, France and Italy all have several intense club derbies they seem better placed to negotiate in pursuit of international success than the English do.

And team spirit will only get you so far. It took them to the semis, albeit against sides you’d kind of expect them to beat, but the minute they faced better quality sides - Croatia and Belgium - they lost.

That’s been more or less the rule for the last fifty years. In order for England to begin readdressing that I think they’re going to need more than a combination of talent and spirit alone.
 
HandsomeHead said:
The club rivalry argument for their failure is nonsense quite frankly. Spain, Germany, France and Italy all have several intense club derbies they seem better placed to negotiate in pursuit of international success than the English do.

And team spirit will only get you so far. It took them to the semis, albeit against sides you’d kind of expect them to beat, but the minute they faced better quality sides - Croatia and Belgium - they lost.

That’s been more or less the rule for the last fifty years. In order for England to begin readdressing that I think they’re going to need more than a combination of talent and spirit alone.
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You can't just not count a semi final just because of who they played. That would be like saying it doesn't really count when Rangers win the title when it next happens as 95% of the opposition are gash. Also, Sweden are never push overs for anyone and was a solid win for them, even more so considering they were England's bogie team, and Colombia were considered dark horses by some in the competition and tipped to do well. Most teams lose to Belgium. English fans have a lot to be optimistic about regardless of what you or I think.
 
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