Maybe it's because we have a bit of a chip on our shoulder in Scotland when talking about the EPL (rightly so in the cases of Bournemouth etc being able to outspend us), but if I were a young English player and offers came in from top clubs abroad like Bayern, Dortmund, Inter, Atletico Madrid etc I'd be off in a heartbeat.
The Aulde Enemy - England
- Thread starter NotOffside
- Start date
SGL
Well-Known Member
There is a difference between past 'golden generations' and what England have now.
For years England have professionalised the whole international set-up, ensuring consistency of approach throughout the age groups. This includes on the coaching and management recruitment. This will pay dividends, I have little doubt.
For years England have professionalised the whole international set-up, ensuring consistency of approach throughout the age groups. This includes on the coaching and management recruitment. This will pay dividends, I have little doubt.
Leo_Ger
Well-Known Member
They have some really good young players just now but there's still some issues that would cost them in a tournament, I think.
Pickford whilst good with the ball at his feet isn't a top tier keeper.
The defence, there's some talent there but while there's a glut of very good right backs, the centre backs are questionable at the top level. There's still an error in Stones, Maguire, Keane etc. They also don't have a lot of depth at left back, Chillwell has done well for England so far but think they'd want him to move to a bigger club to really push on. After him, who's next? Danny Rose?
In midfield, they have a lot of really talented number 10s but they're still lacking a 6 and an 8 who can dictate play at the top level. Foden might be the solution for one of those as he seems to have the technical abilities but he still has to be introduced and become a regular at City. At the World Cup, Modric and Rakitic absolutely dominated them in the middle of the park for Croatia as did De Jong in the Euro Nations for Holland.
Also generally teams winning international tournaments in recent years are full of players who have won CLs, leagues etc. Beyond the Liverpool and Man City players, England don't really have that experience. It's a different pressure having to perform in the semi-final, final of an international tournament than it is being a good player at an inconsistent club. England have a quite a few of those in players who play for Leicester, West Ham, Aston Villa, Everton etc. Even some clubs like Chelsea, Man Utd, Spurs, Arsenal are hardly a model of consistency these days.
Pickford whilst good with the ball at his feet isn't a top tier keeper.
The defence, there's some talent there but while there's a glut of very good right backs, the centre backs are questionable at the top level. There's still an error in Stones, Maguire, Keane etc. They also don't have a lot of depth at left back, Chillwell has done well for England so far but think they'd want him to move to a bigger club to really push on. After him, who's next? Danny Rose?
In midfield, they have a lot of really talented number 10s but they're still lacking a 6 and an 8 who can dictate play at the top level. Foden might be the solution for one of those as he seems to have the technical abilities but he still has to be introduced and become a regular at City. At the World Cup, Modric and Rakitic absolutely dominated them in the middle of the park for Croatia as did De Jong in the Euro Nations for Holland.
Also generally teams winning international tournaments in recent years are full of players who have won CLs, leagues etc. Beyond the Liverpool and Man City players, England don't really have that experience. It's a different pressure having to perform in the semi-final, final of an international tournament than it is being a good player at an inconsistent club. England have a quite a few of those in players who play for Leicester, West Ham, Aston Villa, Everton etc. Even some clubs like Chelsea, Man Utd, Spurs, Arsenal are hardly a model of consistency these days.
Danger Zone
Just the tip...
Come on now don’t upset him with your anti-English claptrap. I love how the guy came on here posing as some Scot who reluctantly wants to admit England are brilliant, before quickly outing himself as some England-daft Richard Keyes clone who’s barely seen a game of football beyond these shores.
Why would Greenwood score more goals for Dortmund ? no way would have Haalands stats in any of those leagues and wouldn’t get anywhere the team for a start. Dortmund are a champions league side who are second only behind Bayern , Man Utd are a europa league team currently behind Leicester sitting 5th in the league. We get you have a hardon for English football and the EPL but What is it with you telling people they’ve something wrong with them or they just not watch enough football if they don’t agree with you ? Come across as a bit of a spanner in this thread mate. Your opinion doesn’t make it true ffs.
NotOffside
Active Member
The fact that you don't believe Greenwood would score more goals in Germany says everything really. I stopped reading there.
Because you know you’ve not got a clue about any other football outside the U.K.
WinkieWATP
Well-Known Member
Come ontae %^*&. Not only would he have scored more than Sancho he would have surpassed Lewandowski in the goal scoring charts and probably beat Muller in assists also.
NotOffside
Active Member
You do know Dortmund tried to sign Greenwood don't you, Mr. Simpleton?
WinkieWATP
Well-Known Member
What logic are you basing this on?
bluetonic
Well-Known Member
Nothing eclipses when they pumped a poor German team 5-1 back in 2001 there was even a song released about it in the charts
Lack of game time will curtail the developers of most of the young English players, the premier league has far too many average foreign players keeping them out of the teams.
NotOffside
Active Member
Probably because he has 13 goals in the equivalent of about 25 games in total playing as a wide player for United? And he's 18.
Did anyone say they never ? You’re making claims he would score more in Germany based on nothing but guesswork. Mr simpleton
let’s go to playground insults when you’re losing a debate. Do yourself a favour and log off.NotOffside
Active Member
Did anyone say they never ? You’re making claims he would score more in Germany based on nothing but guesswork. Mr simpleton
How does someone lose a debate when it's two opinions? The fact that you don't think Greenwood would score more goals in a worse league is something only you can answer to yourself.
Croatia and Belgium as well.
NotOffside
Active Member
Croatia? Behave!
You’re saying his stats would be miles better , from watching Greenwood and if he played the same position for Dortmund i don’t think he would have “ miles better” stats than what he has at the minute playing against the superstars of Brighton , Norwich , Villa etc. I don’t think that’s a crazy answer.
NotOffside
Active Member
Greenwood is a much better finisher than Sancho. Look at how many goals Sancho has, it's a touch over a goal every three games. I don't think it's crazy logic to think that Greenwood would fill his boots if he was starting most the time as Sancho has for Dortmund...
What is it with you and Greenwood is he your nephew or something ? Now you’re claiming he’d score more than Sancho again another total guess, sancho hasn’t just went there and lit the place up he’s been there since 2017 and worked his way into the team , Greenwood wouldn’t just go there and walk into the Dortmund team and start scoring 20+ goals a season. Give it a rest.
Queenstreetloyal
Well-Known Member
Big deal, he is pish. Rated so highly due to the fact he’s English nothing else.The championship will be good for him
NotOffside
Active Member
It's not a guess to understand that he's a better finisher than Sancho. He's a striker for crying out loud although at the moment he usually plays out wide for United. Never said he would walk into their team and score 20 goals a season either you weirdo, so who's making assumptions now?! Literally made the point that IF he was starting every week for Dortmund then it's not beyond question to think that he would have an outstanding goals to games ratio for an 18 year old as he does for United. And if you don't think Germany has the equivalent of a Brighton in the Bundesliga as you mentioned earlier then you've genuinely got a screw loose.
Renfrew@UKGB&NI
Well-Known Member
They will win a major tournament again. I think they've got rid of a lot of the baggage that comes with their recent tournaments. Wags and all that garbage, jesus we were getting more stories about posh spice than anything at one point.
I'm not even going to compare scotland to them, as that ship sailed a long time ago
In fact scotland are the worst of the home nations and ireland as proved by the last euros.
I'm not even going to compare scotland to them, as that ship sailed a long time ago
In fact scotland are the worst of the home nations and ireland as proved by the last euros.
NotOffside
Active Member
Absolutely deluded. No doubt one of those bitter Scotsman that give all of us a bad name.
Queenstreetloyal
Well-Known Member
Could not give a %^*& about scotland Infact would go as far as saying I want them to lose when they play.
Everything you’re saying is pure guesswork and you’re making Greenwood out to be a superstar when he’s a decent young prospects who’s yet to really prove himself. Then insulting people who claim otherwise. Stop acting like a 15 year old keyboard gangster.
WinkieWATP
Well-Known Member
I think he is about 15 tbh.
Danger Zone
Just the tip...
To be fair the thread isn’t about Scotland anyway so why would you. Everyone and their granny knows Scotland are a complete and utter joke both in terms of league and international football!
England have been overhyped since as long as I’ve been watching football but at least they have something respectable in a quality league and a national side who actual appear at major tournaments.
NotOffside
Active Member
Where? Where have I said Greenwood is a superstar? Where have I said he’s world-class? You continue to make up things out of the blue just to suit your own argument.
Woodrow Call
Well-Known Member
NotOffside
Active Member
And Pickford is the first choice keeper. Did you check him last night on MOTD
Pickford for England and Pickford for Everton are completely different. I don’t rate Pickford myself outside of his actual shot stopping ability which is world-class. The rest of his game is shite. But from what I’ve seen he’s generally been excellent for England and hasn’t made the mistakes he does most week for club.
NotOffside
Active Member
RenfrewBear72
Well-Known Member
If you look at France in comparison, there was a compiled squad by position and they genuinely have 3 players in each position that walk into most top European sides. Deschamps has them playing well, and together, he also seems to control Pogba in a way no one else can. Can't see them being dethroned by anyone anytime soon. Their youth talent is arguably the best in Europe as well.
A Magician Named Gob
Well-Known Member
There's a reason that Spain with Iniesta/Xavi/Pique/Puyol/Ramos/Casillas dominated and Argentina with some of the best attacking players in the world didn't manage it. The most important part of any team is the goalkeeper to the central defenders and midfielders.
I mean, he’s definitely not “pish” though is he?
Mr_Miscellaneous
Well-Known Member
At international level, especially at tournaments, you have to keep it simple and play to your strengths. Either a fairly simple 3-4-3 in the style that Conte played at Chelsea/Sheffield united have been playing this year or they can probably continue with the 3-3-1-3 they had in the World Cup without much bother.
Goalkeeper is a bit of a problem. I'm still not sold on the 'greatness' of Jordan Pickford, he's good at distribution and shot stopping but he's not in that "World Class" category of keepers. Meanwhile, second choice Henderson is having a bit of a late season collapse in form.
Maguire is good at marshalling a defence. The other central defensive options aren't exactly brilliant at defending (Stones, Gomez, Tomori, Dier and, at a push, Walker) but can do what they are told and bring the ball out of defence well.
They do have incredible depth at full-back/Wing-back that are capable of covering the entire midfield flank - Chilwell/Shaw/Rose on the left and Walker/Alexander-Arnold/Trippier/Wan Bissaka on the right.
Their midfield is OK but getting better by the week. It's not great but it's not the massive weakness it was the 2018 World Cup. Maddison, Mount, Winks and Rice have done well since joining the squad, they already have two 'good' options in the midfield in the shape of Henderson and Barkley whilst Foden seems to finally be making an impact domestically and should be in that team in fairly short order.
Front-three? On it's day it's on par with France as being the best in the world. Kane leading the line with any two of Sterling/Rashford/Sancho on the flanks is a terrifying prospect.
Will they win a Euro's/World Cup? Well, worse teams have and it's not outside the realms of possibility. They have a very talented squad that has improved since running out of steam in the World Cup a couple of years ago, they are incredibly dangerous at set pieces and seem to have eliminated a few demons in the form of a Penalty win over Colombia and beating a team ostensibly better than them, Spain.
Goalkeeper is a bit of a problem. I'm still not sold on the 'greatness' of Jordan Pickford, he's good at distribution and shot stopping but he's not in that "World Class" category of keepers. Meanwhile, second choice Henderson is having a bit of a late season collapse in form.
Maguire is good at marshalling a defence. The other central defensive options aren't exactly brilliant at defending (Stones, Gomez, Tomori, Dier and, at a push, Walker) but can do what they are told and bring the ball out of defence well.
They do have incredible depth at full-back/Wing-back that are capable of covering the entire midfield flank - Chilwell/Shaw/Rose on the left and Walker/Alexander-Arnold/Trippier/Wan Bissaka on the right.
Their midfield is OK but getting better by the week. It's not great but it's not the massive weakness it was the 2018 World Cup. Maddison, Mount, Winks and Rice have done well since joining the squad, they already have two 'good' options in the midfield in the shape of Henderson and Barkley whilst Foden seems to finally be making an impact domestically and should be in that team in fairly short order.
Front-three? On it's day it's on par with France as being the best in the world. Kane leading the line with any two of Sterling/Rashford/Sancho on the flanks is a terrifying prospect.
Will they win a Euro's/World Cup? Well, worse teams have and it's not outside the realms of possibility. They have a very talented squad that has improved since running out of steam in the World Cup a couple of years ago, they are incredibly dangerous at set pieces and seem to have eliminated a few demons in the form of a Penalty win over Colombia and beating a team ostensibly better than them, Spain.
WinkieWATP
Well-Known Member
£20m for a 17 year old who plays for Birmingham seems a bit much for me.
Boy does look a player though.
NotOffside
Active Member
Absolutely! Though if he goes the same way as Sancho he could turn out to be a steal in time. Barely seen anything of him myself to comment but if he’s playing Championship football at 16 then he’s obviously got something about him.
Geerfc19
Well-Known Member
How does that work when I said Kane was world class? You're acting like a wee boy here.
Queenstreetloyal
Well-Known Member
Bang average
Queenstreetloyal
Well-Known Member
Yes because that’s the way it works. Reece Oxford, James Vaughan and Jose Baxter to name a few all made their debut in the Prem at 16.
You will get a Jaden Sancho, Phil Foden 1 in every 100 kids who debut early.
NotOffside
Active Member
That's why I said "though if he goes the same way as Sancho", the key word there being if. Didn't know I would need to spell that out to someone.
NotOffside
Active Member
So you're saying Sterling isn't world-class right? Which is madness. You don't start for City pretty much every week when fit unless you're world-class.
Granted he hasn't always been at his best for England but you can't say that with his form for them over the last year or two.
Queenstreetloyal
Well-Known Member
He won’t.
Geerfc19
Well-Known Member
Im saying that he isn't world class yes but he's on the verge of it in my opinion.
But getting all angry and calling people deluded and bitter because they disagree with you is actually embarrassing and childish. Especially when they're putting up a reasonable argument to why they disagree.
It's not all sunshine and rainbows. And don't reply with " I never said that, I never said this"
NotOffside
Active Member
Not angry at all. And if I think someone is deluded then it's just my opinion. I was called clueless by someone one here earlier but I don't make a song and dance about it, and act like a drama Queen. It's just a forum at the end of the day and if people are this sensitive then they should have a quiet word with themselves.
I've never said that anyone can't disagree with me. But one or two twonks insist you said something you never actually said. For example, if I suddenly say that you said earlier that Sterling was rubbish, I think you would rightly be a little annoyed when you (and I) know full well you didn't say such a thing.
NotOffside
Active Member
Now you're Nostradamus reborn? What a guy.
Queenstreetloyal
Well-Known Member
Just so you know, don’t want you getting your hopes up. Greenwood future World Cup winner
ClubFootZzZ
Well-Known Member
Exactly mate, and a spine of Pickford, Macguire/Stones, Henderson/Rice/Barkley or something to that effect is quite a way off world class. Unless they upgrade that area in the next few years they'll risk always being over-reliant on their attacking players.
BlanturBlue
Active Member
Foden just one of many they have along with the likes of bernardo silva.
