The day the swastika flew at Ibrox

Rangerista said:
Two Nazi flags, one over the old crenellated press box on top of the Main Stand and the other over the Derry Shed.

It would have been controversial at the time that Scotland was entertaining a German national side, the evil of the regime there was widely known even at that time.

The Nazi flag being Germany's national flag at the time was correctly flown, though not by choice of Rangers. Only mischief makers and bigots seek to exploit this event.
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It wasn’t called the Nazi flag of course. Nazi was a derogatory term equivalent to “village idiot” as Hitler’s supporters were considered to be by many German citizens.
 
1690 said:
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Love that mentally challengeds try to make something of this when the Irish tricolour was flown at half mast across the RoI by order of their president the day Hitler killed himself.
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What’s worse, the swastika or this:
 
bilkobear said:
Ha, yes.
How silly of our forefathers not have done more to thwart these fascists.
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Some of our forefathers did. Many went to Spain to help the Spanish Republic.

My uncle went and enlisted because, after visiting Germany as a schoolboy, he could see the only road that fascism could, and would, tread.

While Churchill could foresee likely events there were too many others of his class who admired Hitler for emasculating the trade unions.

The Orange Order, I am glad to say, was one of the earliest opponents of fascism, about 1923 if I remember correctly.
 
dublinbluenose said:
Iirc a photo exists of England players lined up before a game in Germany doing the Nazi salute.it was expected that all national teams would do it visiting Germany
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It was still controversial though. The match took place in Berlin in 1938. I read Stan Matthews autobiography who played in that match. It was Sir Stanley Rous who gave the order that England should give the salute. Eddie Hapgood was the captain at the time. The players were livid, and Eddie told Rous to stick his Nazi salute where the sun doesn’t shine, or words to that effect. Eventually, they agreed however. But Eddie had a final trick up his sleeve. Beside the official box where Hitler sat was a small group of England supporters with a Union Jack. Eddie told the players to salute that and not Hitler.
 
Southernlion said:
Some of our forefathers did. Many went to Spain to help the Spanish Republic.

My uncle went and enlisted because, after visiting Germany as a schoolboy, he could see the only road that fascism could, and would, tread.

While Churchill could foresee likely events there were too many others of his class who admired Hitler for emasculating the trade unions.

The Orange Order, I am glad to say, was one of the earliest opponents of fascism, about 1923 if I remember correctly.
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No disrespect mate, you are right many did foresee that fascism was evil.
It is a shame that many did not foresee how evil its bedfellow Communism was.
How many could we have saved from that wretched ideology if many on the left in the UK had just a wee bit more of that wonderful foresight?
 
mental to think that no one knew then what the flag could become.
 
85 years ago?

Even the twisted minds of the tramps will struggle to put a slant on this.

Btw, Fcuk Hitler.
 
Wilkinsvolley said:
I’ve seen it on here before. Before the war and Holocaust they’d just be the German government. If they’re playing somewhere, that’s the flag that would fly. The world admired Hitler for years. He was in the front cover of Time magazine in the states etc.

Very different from collaboration during the war and Holocaust.
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Time’s Man of The Year is selected on a person’s influence on the world, as opposed to their morality. It’s a common misconception but people that even Time themselves consider evil can be given the award if they are seen to have influenced society more than any other person.
 
Jimmy Delaney, there's a name from my old man's past.

He often recalled how he kicked him all over the park when he played for Yeovil v Man utd in a benefit match.
 
Angus Og said:
It would be helpful if you made a point...
other than flying the swastika was Rangers' fault because the match was played at Ibrox, and it had nothing to do with the SFA.
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I never, ever, not once said it was Rangers’ fault.

You said, ‘it had nothing to do with Rangers’.

A rangers employee will have put it there, probably a maintenance worker, as they should have done, being the custodians of a football stadium and it being the flag of a country playing in it.
 
attack-hands said:
Did anybody know about this story, Ibrox hosted an international between Scotland and Nazi Germany (complete swastika and salutes). However Scotland beat them 2-0, something that apparently displeased Hitler no end after the Jesse Owens win at the olympics.


EDIT: this isn't intended to associate Rangers with the nazis or say it was any sort of issue, its just an interesting bit of minutiae that i came across that id never seen before. Also its an interesting side note that Scotland are playing under the union flag.
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But you’ll post it anyway.
 
Southernlion said:
Some of our forefathers did. Many went to Spain to help the Spanish Republic.

My uncle went and enlisted because, after visiting Germany as a schoolboy, he could see the only road that fascism could, and would, tread.

While Churchill could foresee likely events there were too many others of his class who admired Hitler for emasculating the trade unions.

The Orange Order, I am glad to say, was one of the earliest opponents of fascism, about 1923 if I remember correctly.
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There is plaque at Shankill Road library commemorating the men from the Shankill who went to fight fascism in Spain

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BillySimpson said:
There is plaque at Shankill Road library commemorating the men from the Shankill who went to fight fascism in Spain

06575-2019-04-27-international-brigade-plaque.jpg
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I understand that there is a similar plaque on Falls Rd somewhere. Only a couple of names on it, so I understand.
Most ex IRA who went to fight in Spain were Blueshirts and enlisted to help Franco.
 
bilkobear said:
No disrespect mate, you are right many did foresee that fascism was evil.
It is a shame that many did not foresee how evil its bedfellow Communism was.
How many could we have saved from that wretched ideology if many on the left in the UK had just a wee bit more of that wonderful foresight?
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I agree with you on that but I fail to see relevance to this thread
 
The Swastika meant different things to different people back then. It was yet to be associated with Nazi atrocities.
 
Carltonblue said:
Presumably the German flag being waved by the scum was the swastika.
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Exactly two years into the war too.
They knew exactly what was at stake.
The nation on its knees awaiting invasion and they wave the flag of our greatest ever foe.

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose.
 
According to zoomers like Findlay and Haggerty, we probably taught them everything to know about oppressing one particular group in society.
 
dublinbluenose said:
What we have to remember the world was fascinated by Adolf Hitler and what he was doing to the German economy and the modernization he was doing with the transport system and many people on public life were desperate to meet the man and get there photo taken with him.when the penny dropped who he really was it was to late
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edit replied to wrong person
 
Vince said:
As people have said. The Swastika flag at that time didn’t come with the associated horror that is entwined with it now. That was nothing more than a national flag being flown anytime the Germans competed at an event. We even seen foreign competitors doing Nazi salutes in Germany - including the English football team.

Only a few, comparatively few, lone voices (Churchill for example) were warning about the Nazi regime at this time - and these were largely being shouted down by the ‘anti-war‘ sentiment of most people and politicians in the country.
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The anti-war stance wouldve been, at least in part, because we were entirely unprepared for a war. I'm sure we were defunded largely for years following the first, which was evidenced by dunkirk.
 
attack-hands said:
Did anybody know about this story, Ibrox hosted an international between Scotland and Nazi Germany (complete swastika and salutes). However Scotland beat them 2-0, something that apparently displeased Hitler no end after the Jesse Owens win at the olympics.


EDIT: this isn't intended to associate Rangers with the nazis or say it was any sort of issue, its just an interesting bit of minutiae that i came across that id never seen before. Also its an interesting side note that Scotland are playing under the union flag.
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I think this thread could have been titled better. The picture of the swastika flag flying over Ibrox is used by lots of dhims in on line msgs as some sort of justification for their hatred or bigotry. They don't care about the context or it wasn't a Gers game.
 
Pliskers said:
I knew about the Germans at Ibrox and some of the Tims reckon that is the origin the term Hun for us but was not aware of the above article. Thanks for posting.
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Complete rubbish.

I get fed up posting this but 'hun' was a general term of abuse within Britain - particularly after WWII.



The game referred to in the OP was held under the auspices of the SFA.
 
CooperOnTheWing said:
It wasn’t called the Nazi flag of course. Nazi was a derogatory term equivalent to “village idiot” as Hitler’s supporters were considered to be by many German citizens.
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I didn't know that it was derogatory. Nazi simply stands for national socialist, but I suppose the mood of the time was that it inferred some kind of Bolshevik movement, to the uninitiated.
 
blue_johnny said:
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I don’t believe a German flag was flown. The flag in question was probably an Irish tricolour which would have been highly provocative at the time.

I have heard from two sources that ‘pro German’ songs were sung but there were no specific details. What ‘pro German’ song other than ‘Deutschland Uber Allies’ would Celtic fans know?
 
bilkobear said:
I am pretty sure that initially Churchill was enamoured by developments in Germany.
It was a few years into the regime before he made a decision to call the Nazis out.
Some say it was because Winston could see a rotter for what he was, others make mention that he was deeply in debt and certain sponsors were anxious for his support in the matter.
Regardless, I tend to believe Winston got it right because he was just a right good egg. :)
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His speech from 1934 describes what was happening in Germany and where we were all heading.
 
CooperOnTheWing said:
It wasn’t called the Nazi flag of course. Nazi was a derogatory term equivalent to “village idiot” as Hitler’s supporters were considered to be by many German citizens.
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I think you have a point here. My mother was a kid, but she remembered that hitler was treated as a fun figure. Was too late by the time reality hit home.
 
TheEgg said:
some folk have not taken this well haha, the OP is just posting an interesting peice of history, something I didnt know

cheers OP
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No worries, logged back in to find it all went a bit wrong.

Id been looking at old vids online on you tube and this popped up and i thought it would be of interest as it's a story id never heard before. Think it should be obvious that the events were of their time and that nobody suggested that either Rangers or the SFA were endorsing the Nazis!

In fact its interesting that this supposedly elite German team were soundly beaten by a hardy group of Scots, captained by Ranger James Simpson, a taste of things to come possibly!

Found this story too which give a bit of a hint at the political climate of the time;

As the game approached, the political overtones were rife. There was an atmosphere of having an unwanted guest to stay; no-one wanted to be rude and everyone ended up being overbearingly polite instead.

Mind you, Rangers and Scotland goalkeeper Jerry Dawson tried to make light of the situation: he dabbed a small black moustache on his upper lip and pulled his hair over his right eyebrow. "Dat's good fonny," a visitor remarked, trying hard not to show offence.
 
deedle said:
Complete rubbish.

I get fed up posting this but 'hun' was a general term of abuse within Britain - particularly after WWII.



The game referred to in the OP was held under the auspices of the SFA.
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It is amusing to see them argue over its origin. Have seen it referenced to us back in WW1. Regardless, they appear to enjoy making their own shit up.
 
Pliskers said:
It is amusing to see them argue over its origin. Have seen it referenced to us back in WW1. Regardless, they appear to enjoy making their own shit up.
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Rangers fans used to refer to Celtic fans as ’huns’ in two songs sung until the 80s.

In ‘The Colours They Are Fine’ - a set of stories by Alan Spence that documents the lives of ordinary Glaswegians (mainly Rangers fans) in the 60s and before - ‘hun‘ is used simply as a term of abuse.

The sectarian connotations seem to have crossed over from Northern Ireland although it became clear that it was increasingly being used as a sectarian slur here.
 
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a_weir said:
I never, ever, not once said it was Rangers’ fault.

You said, ‘it had nothing to do with Rangers’.

A rangers employee will have put it there, probably a maintenance worker, as they should have done, being the custodians of a football stadium and it being the flag of a country playing in it.
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It was never anybody's "fault" as there was no "fault". No-one was to know what would unfold.
 
I never knew that and interesting to see and hear.
I dont know if it is the same guy, or everyone spoke the same then, but like all the commentaries you here from games at that time
 
Wilkinsvolley said:
I’ve seen it on here before. Before the war and Holocaust they’d just be the German government. If they’re playing somewhere, that’s the flag that would fly. The world admired Hitler for years. He was in the front cover of Time magazine in the states etc.

Very different from collaboration during the war and Holocaust.
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Hitler was time magazine's man of the year however it's a common misconception that it was because of admiration for the man. The person of the year is actually about influence rather than honour.

The cover depicts that in itself

From the unholy organist, a hymn of hate.
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