I don’t think anyone should put a penny in until this is cleared up by the 3 (4) who are in charge of C1872.
Seen similar myself. I can somewhat understand where they are coming from as they probably want what they see as the best for the organisation. However when they get in over their heads and their only form of argument is to start making things personal, their position becomes untenable.I've seen this happen in other volunteer organisations - people get so involved over a long period of time that an element of possession develops, they see the organisation as theirs and resent anyone who tries to interfere with that.
There should be at least 2 members not based in Scotland I retire next month but not based in Scotland only go there for Rangers games but could devote time energy as you and many others could with no real ambition for the delights of the boardroom hospitality but to protect the good Rangers supporters. Using zoom teams skype would allow attendance at meetings. Structure of c1872 requires overhaul completely. Residence in Glasgow/ Scotland should not be an essential requirement. It should be what can I do for the club not what can the club do for meIf I was in Glasgow or even Scotland then I might be interested. However, being 5000 miles away, I don't think it is practical or reasonable. However, I'm more than happy to be a resource for whoever is running the show.
Unless they resign within a few weeks this is the road I am sure someone will go down and request a forensic report on the running of the CICHeld off commenting after reading the full OP last night.
I've backed them but that is beyond the pale and genuinely disturbing.
What on earth was the motive behind contacting Castor? I still don't get it.
As for what could only be described as a power grab, I've got my doubts that is legal.
However for those thinking of pulling out please think again.
If it comes to it the membership are not powerless here.
Complaints the Regulator may consider pursuing under formal investigation powers
Circumstances might include:
• Fraud or other criminality.
• Serious mismanagement putting significant assets, or funds, at risk.
• A pattern of conduct involving deliberately misleading or deceiving customers or
creditors.
• Serious breach of directors’ duties to the company or its creditors
I said this earlier about being abroad should not deter people from helping Club1872 but they must have a skill set or experience as well as being a fanThere should be at least 2 members not based in Scotland I retire next month but not based in Scotland only go there for Rangers games but could devote time energy as you and many others could with no real ambition for the delights of the boardroom hospitality but to protect the good Rangers supporters. Using zoom teams skype would allow attendance at meetings. Structure of c1872 requires overhaul completely. Residence in Glasgow/ Scotland should not be an essential requirement. It should be what can I do for the club not what can the club do for me
I agree, I previously contacted them to suggest there should be a way for members who can’t always travel to take part in or at least hear and see meetings. I didn’t receive a response.There should be at least 2 members not based in Scotland I retire next month but not based in Scotland only go there for Rangers games but could devote time energy as you and many others could with no real ambition for the delights of the boardroom hospitality but to protect the good Rangers supporters. Using zoom teams skype would allow attendance at meetings. Structure of c1872 requires overhaul completely. Residence in Glasgow/ Scotland should not be an essential requirement. It should be what can I do for the club not what can the club do for me
This has been bugging me as I remember looking it to it at the time to make sure it wasn't just going to be the same people in jobs for life. I've just looked through old emails and stuff but can't see any vote to suggest this has changed.Is there a maximum term that can be served?
I'm guessing they have voted through a change to not have to have a re-election every year, did the thing about no director being permitted to be affirmed as a director on more than one occasion change as well as I think some of the board have been in place since 2016?
- 24.2. Unless otherwise approved by a Special Resolution of the Donating Members, each member of the Board of the Club 1872 Companies shall have to be annually elected to or affirmed in the office of Director following a vote of the Donating Members. Elections shall take place each September in accordance with the procedures set out in Schedule 3. A minimum of one-half of the Directors serving on the Board of the Company must seek re-election each year and no Director shall be permitted to be affirmed as a Director on more than one occasion. The directors appointed shall be those with the highest number of votes based on one vote for each Donating Member. The number of directors to be appointed and/ or affirmed each year shall be seven
I mentioned this earlier.This has been bugging me as I remember looking it to it at the time to make sure it wasn't just going to be the same people in jobs for life. I've just looked through old emails and stuff but can't see any vote to suggest this has changed.
Found an old copy of the constitution online and it says
I'm guessing they have voted through a change to not have to have a re-election every year, did the thing about no director being permitted to be affirmed as a director on more than one occasion change as well as I think some of the board have been in place since 2016?
Has anyone got an up to date copy of the constitution?
There should be at least 2 members not based in Scotland I retire next month but not based in Scotland only go there for Rangers games but could devote time energy as you and many others could with no real ambition for the delights of the boardroom hospitality but to protect the good Rangers supporters. Using zoom teams skype would allow attendance at meetings. Structure of c1872 requires overhaul completely. Residence in Glasgow/ Scotland should not be an essential requirement. It should be what can I do for the club not what can the club do for me
I can’t find any email for a vote to change that bit in bold though (about re-election). Keen to know when it changed.I mentioned this earlier.
The club 1872 membership is passive and don't get involved, they are happy for others to do it and rubber stamp whatever is issued from centre. I'm not being disrespectful, it's a genuine fact.
So it will be very very difficult to make any changes with the way the organisation is setup.
It was amended and changes passed ages ago.This has been bugging me as I remember looking it to it at the time to make sure it wasn't just going to be the same people in jobs for life. I've just looked through old emails and stuff but can't see any vote to suggest this has changed.
Found an old copy of the constitution online and it says
I'm guessing they have voted through a change to not have to have a re-election every year, did the thing about no director being permitted to be affirmed as a director on more than one occasion change as well as I think some of the board have been in place since 2016?
Has anyone got an up to date copy of the constitution?
Cannot remember exactly but I remember it being talked about when I was there which is nearly 3 years ago.I can find any email for a vote to change that bit in bold though (about re-election). Keen to know when it changed.
We will just need to get it changed backIt was amended and changes passed ages ago.
Fair Enough - so it was setup to make sure this type of thing couldn’t happen, and a change was voted through at somepoint.It was amended and changes passed ages ago.
MarkIt's worth printing out and reading in it's entirety - that way you get a feel for how the organisation has been operating.
Doesn't need to be criminality, there are other reasons and one IMO is a stick onCannot remember exactly but I remember it being talked about when I was there which is nearly 3 years ago.
Rest assured that operationally and governance wise they will not have done anything out with the confines of the governing document.
Also would like to point out that the CIC regulator will rarely get involved unless there is rampant borderline criminality, and that will not be the case here.
It's got about £4million in shares and cash.
So, I wouldn't be for throwing the towel in.
The problem is that they will almost certainly have two hand-picked candidates - whom they will have advised on weeding their social media and double-checked all their proposers.
Those two will then be in a context where The Three are always in a majority and because they have been in place for some time have all the contacts and knowledge to run the organisation. The incumbents are in a very strong position.
It's effectively run as a self-perpetuating clique and will be for at least another year until a fresh set of elections.
I can understand why people are pulling out but I think it would be daft to abandon all those assets.
Stick in and vote them out this year or next.
I was a life member of RST and therefore life member of C1872. Have today cancelled my small monthly subscription until such time C1872 is run professionally.
I was a life member of the RST so same applies to me but fortunately I decided not to make further contributions as I simply couldn't afford it.
PM sent.Could all the people who would like to help Club 1872 to succeed please drop me a PM and we can see what we can do to get this back to a proper one member one vote organisation would like to know what professional people would like to get involved, in confidence of course
The Club is safe now. No need to be wasting your cash in Club1872 with no one accountable in their little fiefdom. Give directly to club or via Lotto
We have fan ownership now. C1872 is not aiming to own the club, it is aiming to safeguard the club. That is not something that will 'work' or not, it is a simple aim that requires a simple thing to happen. It is the governance of C1872 itself, not in relation to the club, that is causing an issue today.Fan ownership will not work. The op proves it. Far too many people with their own agenda.
The RST was in a position of 90% of shares belonged to one person. We did try to warn people that he was leading us down a dangerous path financially but most people didn’t want to hear this message. We did, however, stop the sale and leaseback of Ibrox, constantly defended the fans. We raised £250k in one week just prior to the IPO And supported a lot of charity work.The RST achieved little in it's existence. Something I was particularly frustrated by as an early member and vocal supporter.
I believe in the concepts/ideals. Absolutely. In every incarnation, the infighting, public spats and governance have been embarrassing.We have fan ownership now. C1872 is not aiming to own the club, it is aiming to safeguard the club. That is not something that will 'work' or not, it is a simple aim that requires a simple thing to happen. It is the governance of C1872 itself, not in relation to the club, that is causing an issue today.
Glad I stopped payments to this org a long, long time ago.Basically, the three of them have taken control of Club !872 and do not need to ask any member permission to do what they want.
That's how it reads to me
Are H&H still on good terms with Club 1872? I'm sure David has interviewed Laura quite a few times in the past. Would be interesting to know if they have broken off comms with them too.They've got one. Why? I can only guess. Certainly his appointment coincided with their breaking off of comms with me despite no chat about it. I presume because I used to live and work in Northern Ireland they assumed I would be in DG's camp. However, at that time I didn't know who he was, had never communicated with him and, because I don't routinely listen to podcasts, I was even unaware he had been on Heart & Hand.
In the long term it would be a good vehicle for fan participation but organisation has to be correct. Large board fixed terms and regular communication. Alternative is buying club products which leaves the club vulnerable to another tycoon who sees pound signs. We might not be as lucky in the future to have Jardine Brown McCoist and many others to protect us when it hits the fan. We have many enemies for many different reasons. We need to protect our clubGlad I stopped payments to this org a long, long time ago.
Are H&H still on good terms with Club 1872? I'm sure David has interviewed Laura quite a few times in the past. Would be interesting to know if they have broken off comms with them too.
Well, they're poodles with a very big bite. This is not acceptable, and for the love of me, I don't understand the arrogance displayed by these people, towards Stuart and indirectly to the members.Euan and Laura are poodles.
I’m sorry, they should all stand down immediately and elect new representatives as that is not acceptable.
Thats where I am. Read the whole thing a couple of times.Basically, the three of them have taken control of Club !872 and do not need to ask any member permission to do what they want.
That's how it reads to me
The current directors and the independent adjudicator.Mark
Who may decide whether or not you can apply for a place on the board?? What grounds?
I have to say that your condemnation of Alan Fraser is pretty poor. I have known him for a long time, and although we haven’t had any direct dealings for a number of years, I can tell you right now that he is a massive Rangers man and a very decent human being. Whatever his reasons for resigning should be a warning flag that all is not well on that board.
Think I found it (same email as I referenced above)It was amended and changes passed ages ago.
The Club 1872 board has also discussed a number of other ideas that could potentially protect and increase the stability of the organisation. In line with our constitution, it is for members to decide whether those changes should be implemented through the adoption of a new Election Schedule.
This is from the Rules posted on the Companies House website.Think I found it (same email as I referenced above)
Does anyone have a copy of the "Election Schedule"?
None of The Three are up for election.Are all board members up for election? Including Fawkes and the other two members of the clique?
Alan is the director who resigned prior to Stewart, both of whom you suggested were ‘not up to it’I’ve no idea who Alan Fraser is mate. Plus I’m not talking about any individual.
Alan is the director who resigned prior to Stewart, both of whom you suggested were ‘not up to it’
So, with the new “ways of working” nothing’s going to change. Adding new board members is nothing more than a box ticking exercise.None of The Three are up for election.
Not what I expected. I’ll drop them an email asking for a copy of the constitution (unless someone can find it online?)This is from the Rules posted on the Companies House website.