The Trophy Haul Head-To-Head

After 2012, let's be honest, we all expected them to get a treble every year. They screwed that up. The trophy count means nothing to me right now because I expected a lot worse (by this stage) after the events of 2012 and resigned myself to the fact that they would eventually overtake us on the trophy haul.

Folk saying 55 is not defined as our most important title... They would be on 12 in a row right now had we not won it. The frustration is that we never invested and kicked on after this and it's felt by every single supporter. Had we done so that summer, Gerrard would have got 2 in a row.

Wilson is now gone. Robertson is now gone. We have a CEO, there is change all over the club. We now start a new era in the summer and I am very optimistic this is the beginning of a successful period for us.

We will overtake them again and it will be sooner than many think.
 
Unfortunately the domestic cups are becoming irrelevant beyond parochial bragging rights.

The league and a run in Europe are the necessity, the latter giving the former more importance.
 
bobbyger said:
It can only be classed as head to head when we were in the same league/competition. So the league titles when we were out of the SPL shouldn't count in head to head comparisons.
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That’s embarrassing stuff .

Celtics titles shouldn’t count because McCoist was a duff manager that couldn’t get out the championship ?
 
bobbyger said:
It can only be classed as head to head when we were in the same league/competition. So the league titles when we were out of the SPL shouldn't count in head to head comparisons.
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We can’t do that but, and the scum will never acknowledged this, everything needs to be contextualised.
 
I just hope we can manage to have a good summer of recruitment. The future looks good with the liks of Cantwell and Raskin already in the door. Then we have the other new lads who look like shrewd signings who clearly have qaulity.

Then the players already there and integrated..

Connor Goldson
John Souttar
Ridvan Yilmaz
James Taverner
Ryan Jack
John Lindstrum
Ianis Hagi
Tom Lawrence

It will be a huge summer for the club and could be a pivotal moment in how we move forward. I believe the manager will find the right players to come in and increase the qaulity further.

Whether or not Malik Tillman signs is yet to be seen but I would like the club to get the lad tied down obviously on a payment structure that doesn't damage the managers budget too much.

Hopefully a Goal Keeper and a Striker can be the two main positions we really do manage to fill with qaulity.

I genuinely feel if we get those two positions right we have the necessary tools to go and win the Title.

Kemar Roofe managing to stay fit for a large part of the season would be a HUGE bonus.. There is no doubt when fit and firing he is one of the most, IF not the most dangerous forward in the League.

Sorry if I've missed any other players out.
 
BrooklynBlue said:
Unfortunately the domestic cups are becoming irrelevant beyond parochial bragging rights.

The league and a run in Europe are the necessity, the latter giving the former more importance.
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Absolutely agree.

The league cup in particular is a pointless competition and I would play our youngsters/squad players in it every round. Yes, I’ve enjoyed our previous victories in it but it’s no longer a tournament of any prestige.

Start winning the league and aiming for progression in Europe. Far more important in my opinion.
 
archimedes said:
If things pan out the way they should* after their court case, it will be us who has a decade (or more) of dominance (should be permanent).
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In any other country this would be a given. If you take on board the way we were punished for not paying some tax that would reinforce your point.

You have quite sensibly used the word IF. We all have the fear that the rules will once again be manipulated in their favour.

Will they ever get a points deduction, sent down the divisions or as should happen lose their license? I think we all know the answer.
 
ICA_86 said:
Nonsense.

Europe comes as part of the package as a two horse race, and losing a European final every 15 years doesn’t excuse letting Celtic dominate us domestically,

I’ll keep saying it - fans need to readjust priorities. We’ll get group stages and all the income from that from either the CL or EL automatically, but we need to dominate Scotland again, and quickly.
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It's fair to say you missed my point.
 
spotlight said:
Bang on. Murray walked away and handed us over to rats. A disgrace.
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Yep!!! Bang on. That phucker Murray's mismanagement of OUR club and take in the stabbing in the back from the rest of the SPL haters is the result we have that lots dominance for the last 11 years.
 
SDF said:
Celtic had a fanzone at George Square around 5/6 years back before one of their Champions League games where Tom Boyd was introduced to the adoring hordes as "the man who stopped their ten". That must've really impressed all the weans in the crowd who probably had no idea what they were on about.

I'd hate if we became that sort of club riddled with small mindedness

Take Clint Hill. Seems a lovely big guy who was genuinely appreciative of his time with us but being able to dine out on scoring an equaliser against them in a season where they done a treble and we finished about a million points behind them including losing 5-1 twice to them doesn't reflect well on us.
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Clint Hill also told us finishing 3rd was a good achievement. Mental the guy has any kind of standing within our support beyond being a nice fella
 
GourockBlue50 said:
In any other country this would be a given. If you take on board the way we were punished for not paying some tax that would reinforce your point.

You have quite sensibly used the word IF. We all have the fear that the rules will once again be manipulated in their favour.

Will they ever get a points deduction, sent down the divisions or as should happen lose their license? I think we all know the answer.
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Davie (peace process) Provan said at the time it was ridiculous sending your top club down the divisions...He said can you imagine the Spanish FA sending Real Madrid or the English FA sending Manchester United down for financial reasons,? he said it would never happen...Ok I know Juve were sent down but that was for criminal activity
 
sambo84 said:
I thought when we won 55 that that title was monumentally important. I believed it was going to be the turning point, that 55 would be the moment that allowed us to escape scum domination and re-establish rangers as the best in scotland.

now that the scum have continued to sweep up nearly everything, winning 11 league titles in 12 seasons and 17 of the last 21 trophies, I think it's a joke to call 55 our "most important title".

that title hasn't changed anything so what was so important about it exactly? the fact that it stopped the scum's run of consecutive league titles reaching double figures? are we really going to teach young rangers fans that our most important title was the one where we stopped them "doing the 10" because it prevented the scum from boasting about staying champions a whole decade?

55 could have and should have been a transformative moment. but as things stand, we're right back to where we were pre-gerrard, hoping that an inexperienced manager can revitalise our squad on a shoestring budget.

if we don't start winning titles again soon, history will look back on 55 as a blip and another false dawn.

I do believe michael beale will win us next season's league title. if we do, if we get back to regularly winning the league, maybe we will look back on 55 as a pivotal moment and these past couple seasons will be seen as a small stumbling block as we got back to our feet.

I really really hope that proves to be the case. we have to make 55 our return to normality rather than the one exceptional season in a bleak period of disappointment.
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I understand that opinion and 55 would've been a catalyst for a period of domination however our board didn't invest when all the foundations were in place resulting in Celtic dominating again. Gerrard said himself after winning the title fix the roof when the sun is shining. I think the board will back Beale and hopefully he's good enough as manager to take us where we need to be but we are nowhere near as bad as we were prior to Gerrard arriving with investing wisely we'll have a very good chance of winning the title next season.
 
Gringotts Dragon said:
Ok so any cup we’ve won doesn’t count unless we beat Celtic in the run to lift the trophy?

What a load of utter nonsense. As someone else said, that’s desperate. Straw clutching
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No, I said in the same league/competition. So only those league titles when we are in the same league should be classed as "head to head" trophies.
How can we be head to head if we are in a different competition.

Its not clutching at straws or being desperate, it's about pointing out the media spin on it all making it out that we were on the same playing field/league when either us or them won cups which as we all know is false.
 
McCoist’sTinHat said:
You can lose a one off cup game, absolutely.

But that run was a systemic failing to achieve a basic goal. At the most basic level, the goal wasn’t to win the thing, but for us to be the one standing between Celtic and the trophy. When we go out of a tournament to Hibs, Aberdeen or St Johnstone, it makes it even easier for them to sweep up trophies. Gerrard was completely out of ideas how to navigate cup ties against sides that we should be beating more often than not.

Also, my reply was in relation to us being able to compete with Celtic, due to the financial gap.

If people are going to explain away their success due to money, then we can’t have it both ways.
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I believe our focus as a club at the time was stopping them getting 10iar and prioritising Europe as that's where the finances were to keep us competitive, unfortunately after stopping them too many at the club thought it was job done.
 
GBY74 said:
The board not backing Gerrard after winning 55 completely mucked up our chances of going on an extended period of success. I think too many believed it was job done getting 55 and stopping them getting 10iar which was a huge opportunity missed.
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This was crux of it we had get recruitment right that summer and we would have put them in a cycle of changing managers

The board let them of the hook by not investing that summer

And

The league was lost the moment the winter break was brought fwd we did not fight strongly enough for it
 
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Kingsparkger said:
Absolutely agree.

The league cup in particular is a pointless competition and I would play our youngsters/squad players in it every round. Yes, I’ve enjoyed our previous victories in it but it’s no longer a tournament of any prestige.

Start winning the league and aiming for progression in Europe. Far more important in my opinion.
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So whilst we effectively give up seriously trying to win the league cup we stand by and watch the mentally challengeds get a free run to lift it year after year after year?

And that wouldnt bother you?

Each to their own but respectfully disagree.
 
GBY74 said:
I believe our focus as a club at the time was stopping them getting 10iar and prioritising Europe as that's where the finances were to keep us competitive, unfortunately after stopping them too many at the club thought it was job done.
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Are you suggesting we purposely sacrificed the cups so we could focus on league games and Europe?

The management at the time seemed pretty pissed off that we weren’t taking care of these sides, and spoke each year about improving our cup record and ‘righting a few wrongs’. That doesn’t really tie in with your theory.
 
Gringotts Dragon said:
Ok so any cup we’ve won doesn’t count unless we beat Celtic in the run to lift the trophy?

What a load of utter nonsense. As someone else said, that’s desperate. Straw clutching
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Both were in the cup competitions regardless of meeting each other or not so they are competing for same trophy!

The point bobbyger was making was about playing for the top league trophy where we were not head to head or do any trophies lower leagues count where Celtic were not in but we were? The answer is obviously a no! At the end of the day we should treat the DR with the contempt it deserves!
 
Kingsparkger said:
Absolutely agree.

The league cup in particular is a pointless competition and I would play our youngsters/squad players in it every round. Yes, I’ve enjoyed our previous victories in it but it’s no longer a tournament of any prestige.

Start winning the league and aiming for progression in Europe. Far more important in my opinion.
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Go back through history and check the impact that winning/losing the league cup has had on the sides who have the most success. Throughout the 80s and into the 90s, the league cup was our competition.

Getting a taste of lifting silverware, especially to a new side with players not used to winning is vital.

Look at the impact winning the league cup had for Celtic last season - it gave them something to believe in when they were behind us in the title race.
 
McCoist’sTinHat said:
Are you suggesting we purposely sacrificed the cups so we could focus on league games and Europe?

The management at the time seemed pretty pissed off that we weren’t taking care of these sides, and spoke each year about improving our cup record and ‘righting a few wrongs’. That doesn’t really tie in with your theory.
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I don't think the management team we had then would purposely sacrifice winning any game. I'm stating that we seemed more focused on Europe as that's where the finances were to allow us to be competitive.
 
BlueArmada said:
In the last few years it feels like one of the luxuries they've had is the ability to be shite in Europe without it having an impact on their overall finances and transfer budget.

I would think an argument could be made that our performances since Gerrard joined have given us more scope to compete financially but at the cost of more games, leading to split focus, more injuries etc. It's probably more nuanced than that but they can play 6 games in Europe, get pumped out and then crack on and wrap up trebles.

I suppose a counter argument would be that aside from 55 season, our European performances have helped gloss over our poor domestic showings. Our EL showings and CL qualification are worth more financially than winning a cup but, as a club, winning trophies is what we're all about and there's no reason we couldn't have done both. 55 season was the best example of this. We should have won a treble that year no bother.

I think that's how I'd sum up our last 6/7 seasons: "should have done better". Really frustrating.
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When they get a poor year in Europe they sell someone to cover the loss.
 
Blue Lou Boyle said:
So whilst we effectively give up seriously trying to win the league cup we stand by and watch the mentally challengeds get a free run to lift it year after year after year?

And that wouldnt bother you?

Each to their own but respectfully disagree.
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In my long time following rangers the league cup has always been an important trophy to win.in the years we were nowhere near to winning the league,winning the league cup was celebrated with gusto.in other years it was seen as a launch pad to a successful season.we are not in a position to even contemplate turning our noses up at the winning of any trophy.
 
kenikinif said:
Walter in his first spell lost to Falkirk,Hibs,Aberdeen and Dundee utd in the League cup
Lost to Hearts and the Filth in the Scottish and lost finals to both Hearts and Dundee utd
He also had the luxury that a poor couple of results could be recovered from
Different times and the rest were of better quality but the reality is we weren't ruthless enough
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You’re right the quality of the league was better. Fast forward to his second spell and we were hoovering up the trophies and rarely ever had a shock cup exit. Our performance in these competitions has been inexcusable.
 
dublinbluenose said:
In my long time following rangers the league cup has always been an important trophy to win.in the years we were nowhere near to winning the league,winning the league cup was celebrated with gusto.in other years it was seen as a launch pad to a successful season.we are not in a position to even contemplate turning our noses up at the winning of any trophy.
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First trophy I saw us win in 1986.

The finals against aberdeen in 87 and 88 remain to this day two of the most exciting finals I've ever seen Rangers play in.
 
GBY74 said:
I don't think the management team we had then would purposely sacrifice winning any game. I'm stating that we seemed more focused on Europe as that's where the finances were to allow us to be competitive.
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It’s convenient to look at it that way in hindsight, but we went out of the Scottish cup 3 seasons in a row under Gerrard once Europe was done and dusted, and we either looked highly unlikely to win the title or had it wrapped up in each of the seasons, so that trophy should’ve been our only focus.

Instead, we let Aberdeen (after a replay), Hearts and St Johnstone progress.
 
FDB1978 said:
Kind of a catch 22 situation though as we need to do well in Europe to generate the money needed to compete domestically.

It's also vital we continue out performing them in Europe for the ten year coefficient payments which is an extra £6,000,000 a season before a ball is kicked.
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They will do nothing in Europe. We will have enough under Beale for all domestic cups.

Rather go into Europa League if anything CL we are years behind. Be top dog in Scotland is all that matters
 
McCoist’sTinHat said:
It’s convenient to look at it that way in hindsight, but we went out of the Scottish cup 3 seasons in a row under Gerrard once Europe was done and dusted, and we either looked highly unlikely to win the title or had it wrapped up in each of the seasons, so that trophy should’ve been our only focus.

Instead, we let Aberdeen (after a replay), Hearts and St Johnstone progress.
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It's not convenient both are factually correct where performing well in Europe did increase finances and restored our clubs reputation. Domestic performance was poor particularly in Cup competitions resulting in them getting close to our trophy record. We simply have to invest wisely and start our own period of domination.
 
McCoist’sTinHat said:
The height of my ambition for Rangers just now is to stop Celtic winning more trophies.

European qualification is crucial for our budget, but in terms of success, you can count on the one hand how many seasons we’ve had true success in the last half a century.

The barometer should extend past beating Celtic every year, only once we actually ARE beating Celtic every year. Too many people still think it’s 1997 here. We’ve just conceded a 5th treble in 7 years. Our number 1, out and out priority should be winning our title back, and then go from there.
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I wish it was
 
Blue Lou Boyle said:
Most of us at the time didnt know whyte was a bull shitter.

Murray did. The board made it clear to him whyte was full of shite and implored him not to sell to him.

He still did it anyway.
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Was it not the Bank that forced Murray to sell the club?
 
GBY74 said:
It's not convenient both are factually correct where performing well in Europe did increase finances and restored our clubs reputation. Domestic performance was poor particularly in Cup competitions resulting in them getting close to our trophy record. We simply have to invest wisely and start our own period of domination.
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Our European exploits and cup performances were completely unrelated. Gerrard was tearing his hair out at our inability to put these sides away.

To look back and somehow claim we sacrificed or prioritised one over the other is captain hindsight stuff.
 
Blue and white ‘75 said:
Murray also insured we won nine in a row . It wasn’t Murray that screwed us it was Craig white , and many many people were happy at the time when he took over
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Murray knew well who he was selling to. And I know many who were concerned immediately about Whyte.
And on the grander scale, Murray took over a very successful and well run Rangers. He left us in a mess. The worst person to ever run Rangers.
 
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Blue and white ‘75 said:
Murray also insured we won nine in a row . It wasn’t Murray that screwed us it was Craig white , and many many people were happy at the time when he took over
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Murray knew exactly what whyte was and he was warned by numerous people on the board but he went ahead with no fucks given for Rangers.He is a scumbag and should be treated as such.
 
Blue and white ‘75 said:
So you don’t think Murray did anything good for us as a club ?
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I think Murray did plenty of good for us, but you’re taking the piss if you think he didn’t screw us 100 fold.

He adopted a Ponzi scheme which was a huge gamble we’re all still paying for, and when it went south, he sold the club to a charaltan. If we didn’t have tax cases and the potential of a massive taxdebt hanging over us, we would never have ended up in that position. Murray was the decision maker behind that whole saga. We almost didn’t have a club because of him.
 
bobbyger said:
No, I said in the same league/competition. So only those league titles when we are in the same league should be classed as "head to head" trophies.
How can we be head to head if we are in a different competition.

Its not clutching at straws or being desperate, it's about pointing out the media spin on it all making it out that we were on the same playing field/league when either us or them won cups which as we all know is false.
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Where do you draw the line? We were out for four years because we couldn’t get our the championship in our first attempt. Should that season not count because McCoist was a useless manager? At the end of the day we all know the trophy haul is meaningless because of their shenanigan. they know that too. So I won’t lose any sleep over it to be honest. We just need to get our act together and retake what is ours.
 
Blue and white ‘75 said:
Murray also insured we won nine in a row . It wasn’t Murray that screwed us it was Craig white , and many many people were happy at the time when he took over
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He ran up serious debt that hamstrung us all because he has an ego the size of Kilimanjaro, he then sold us off to a crook and fucked off out of the firing line. He is a complete scumbag.
 
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