Tillman and the rumoured 5m price

Would you pay the £5m to make it a permanent deal?

  • Total voters
    3,089
Mview83 said:
Bayern don’t have a choice if Tillman wants to join us and we pay the fee as agreed.
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Not true

See post #825


Bayern hold the cards, they have the choice at the end of the loan to take him back, we only have first refusal at a set price IF they decide to sell

Beale’s interview confirms this, and also that the player must want to stay with us too. We need both those planets to align to get him from £5m or whatever it is
 
DrMantisTobogganMD said:
in those 3.5 weeks Tillman has had numerous MOTM displays and scored a few goals. His form at the time i made my opinion was no where near it which is what i based my opinion on. I have changed my opinion on him because hes showing what he can do more consistently.
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Which games was he man of the match in that made you triple his value in your head?
 
We saw the development of Aribo under Beale’s first stint with us.

I think Tillman has a huge amount of potential - personally believe he has the potential to reach higher levels than Aribo did with us and quicker.

Although £5m may seem to some as a high price tag for the player they have watched this season - I think people need to realise that the biggest chunk of that payment is for his potential - who that player will be in 2 seasons time. Even next season, with his first season under his belt and a full preseason with Beale I expect him to make a big impact, and become a key player for us.

Edit: should have added, I completely believe Beale is the right man to help Malik realise his full potential.
 
WATP1979 said:
Not true

See post #825


Bayern hold the cards, they have the choice at the end of the loan to take him back, we only have first refusal at a set price IF they decide to sell

Beale’s interview confirms this, and also that the player must want to stay with us too. We need both those planets to align to get him from £5m or whatever it is
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Nah you’ve picked that up wrong. Rangers can buy him for a set fee (thought to be 5m) there is nothing Bayern can do to stop that although in a roundabout way they apply their buyback immediately and essentially pay us not to sign him. This is Bayerns “option” about whether it works for them. They can stop the deal but it won’t be without cost

No point because if the player doesn’t want to come back to us it’s a non starter.

Beale was alluding to rangers wanting to get the job done but it isn’t Bayern preventing that, the decision isn’t with the clubs it’s with Malik. You can’t buy a guy for 5m if he knows he can sit tight and go to another club instead for better wages even though it will cost another club more than the 5m we have agreed.
 
Jacko55 said:
Nah you’ve picked that up wrong. Rangers can buy him for a set fee (thought to be 5m) there is nothing Bayern can do to stop that although in a roundabout way they apply their buyback immediately and essentially pay us not to sign him.

No point because if the player doesn’t want to come back to us it’s a non starter.

Beale was alluding to rangers wanting to get the job done but it isn’t Bayern preventing that, the decision isn’t with the clubs it’s with Malik. You can’t buy a guy for 5m if he knows he can sit tight and go to another club instead for better wages even though it will cost another club more than the 5m we have agreed.
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Beale said: “We have the first opportunity to buy Malik. Bayern have a decision whether they feel he’s going to play for them.

“There’s a number, we know what it is and we’re comfortable with the number.”
 
WATP1979 said:
Not true

See post #825


Bayern hold the cards, they have the choice at the end of the loan to take him back, we only have first refusal at a set price IF they decide to sell

Beale’s interview confirms this, and also that the player must want to stay with us too. We need both those planets to align to get him from £5m or whatever it is
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Just read that post, and that's not good news for us to be honest.

From what MB says there, it's just a loan, not a loan with option to buy.

The option to buy only becomes relevant, if they don't want him, it would seem.

I don't know anything about Bayern's financial situation, but they would be mad to let Tillman go for 5m.
 
WATP1979 said:
Beale said: “We have the first opportunity to buy Malik. Bayern have a decision whether they feel he’s going to play for them.

“There’s a number, we know what it is and we’re comfortable with the number.”
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Yes and if they think he is they can apply their buyback and keep him, at a cost let’s speculate 10m

Beatles saying it’s not up to rangers, Bayern have options to keep and the player has options to reject us.

Nowhere does it say Rangers totally lose out if Bayern decide to keep him

You don’t agree a loan fee which can be changed at the selling clubs behest if he has a good season what would be the point in that? Bayern can nullify it with conditions such as the buy back which is what’s happening here
 
Ruben Sosa said:
The option to buy only becomes relevant, if they don't want him, it would seem.
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That isn’t a logical condition on a contract. It needs to be bookended. If it does exist Bayern wouldn’t be able to “keep him” in June and reject our bid but months later decide to actually sell him in august before the window is closed. Our season will have started, new targets acquired, then our clause suddenly kicks back in and he’s available for 5m to us and 10m to others?

Nah the clause is in place, Bayern have options to keep him but it wouldn’t be at the complete detriment of rangers.
 
DrMantisTobogganMD said:
I bayern wanted to sign him back would they have to pay us the fee we wanted though?
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No, it’s all agreed for costs, ie if Bayern don’t want to keep him then we have a set price to buy him.

However they also have a set price they can buy him back for within a certain time frame.

What that price is and what the timeframe is, nobody knows, but these type of arrangements are becoming more popular recently
 
Jacko55 said:
Yes and if they think he is they can apply their buyback and keep him, at a cost let’s speculate 10m

Beatles saying it’s not up to rangers, Bayern have options to keep and the player has options to reject us.

Nowhere does it say Rangers totally lose out if Bayern decide to keep him

You don’t agree a loan fee which can be changed at the selling clubs behest if he has a good season what would be the point in that? Bayern can nullify it with conditions such as the buy back which is what’s happening here
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The point is mate, the belief that a large proportion of our support have that stumping up the cash to Bayern is the only thing that needs doing to secure Malik is not the reality.
Bayern have the ultimate control
 
Barrymoped said:
No, it’s all agreed for costs, ie if Bayern don’t want to keep him then we have a set price to buy him.

However they also have a set price they can buy him back for within a certain time frame.

What that price is and what the timeframe is, nobody knows, but these type of arrangements are becoming more popular recently
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id assume that buy back price would be higher than the agreed price we pay bayern
 
ForGodForCountryForever said:
Any deal will be littered with clauses so we may not make a load of money but like Raskin it’s so rare for us to be in the position of getting a player like this for a couple of seasons, maybe more, we have to go all out to make it happen.

We certainly wouldn’t lose money which would be a refreshing change.

Securing Tillman must be the no1 priority for the Summer.
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Agree
 
WATP1979 said:
The point is mate, the belief that a large proportion of our support have that stumping up the cash to Bayern is the only thing that needs doing to secure Malik is not the reality.
Bayern have the ultimate control
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I agree it’s not as clean as presented by some but Bayern Munich aren’t going to keep Malik Tillman ignoring a sell on fee without a counter condition compensating us for developing him so well beyond their expectations and not being allowed to exercise our fee

I wouldn’t worry about Bayern I’d be more concerned when EPL teams realise they can get a quality young player for 5-10m in the summer and easily offer him double the wages we can
 
NDC bear forever said:
Matondo is just pretty hopeless but I agree with Souttar
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You should bookmark this post mate. I think Matondo's attitude was wrong as in "I'm gonna skoosh this". He's had a chance to see that theres a lot more to it and I expect we will maybe all have a bit of a mind change.
 
Jacko55 said:
That isn’t a logical condition on a contract. It needs to be bookended. If it does exist Bayern wouldn’t be able to “keep him” in June and reject our bid but months later decide to actually sell him in august before the window is closed. Our season will have started, new targets acquired, then our clause suddenly kicks back in and he’s available for 5m to us and 10m to others?
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It's not clear to me, I must admit.

As I said, it has always been reported as "loan with option to buy", and if WATP79 is correct, that's not a loan with option to buy.

Hopefully you are right, and if they want him, they would need to trigger their buy back option.
 
Ruben Sosa said:
It's not clear to me, I must admit.

As I said, it has always been reported as "loan with option to buy", and if WATP79 is correct, that's not a loan with option to buy.

Hopefully you are right, and if they want him, they would need to trigger their buy back option.
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If Bayern “take him back” they will need to pay us the buyback value less the agreed fee we have as first option, they could do that instantly at the end of the loan and then sell Malik on at a far higher value, there will be clubs circling if this great form he has continues that’s for sure
 
Ruben Sosa said:
It's not clear to me, I must admit.

As I said, it has always been reported as "loan with option to buy", and if WATP79 is correct, that's not a loan with option to buy.

Hopefully you are right, and if they want him, they would need to trigger their buy back option.
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Beale has only said Bayern have options to keep him as well as us to buy him. He never said it wouldn’t cost them something to do so he’s just letting everyone know it’s not our decision.

As I said it’s the player who’s ready to benefit considerably by choosing a better wage than Rangers can offer in the summer and it’s him who holds most of the cards ultimately.

Personally I think we will be able to agree a deal with Bayern which probably already includes a relatively low buy back. He’s not ready for Bayern but the worry is by the end of the season he’s still a 10m player snd if he is he’s going to be above our maximum wage already and won’t be signing.
 
WATP1979 said:
If Bayern “take him back” they will need to pay us the buyback value less the agreed fee we have as first option, they could do that instantly at the end of the loan and then sell Malik on at a far higher value, there will be clubs circling if this great form he has continues that’s for sure
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Got you now.

I thought you were saying they could simply retain him, if they wanted him back at the end of the season.

Now hopefully they just leave him well alone. :)
 
WATP1979 said:
From today’s Sun-

“
Gers have first refusal should Bayern Munich decide to cash in.

Tillman has impressed under the new manager — starring in his side’s 3-0 midweek win over Hearts.

Beale said: “We have the first opportunity to buy Malik. Bayern have a decision whether they feel he’s going to play for them.

“There’s a number, we know what it is and we’re comfortable with the number.

Also, we wouldn’t just want to buy a boy that maybe wants to be elsewhere.

“I haven’t even had that conversation with Malik. It’s not like you get him in a room and put a gun to his head.

“He has to show you that in his performances and the way he’s playing.

“I’ve asked him to do a slightly different role.

He played mostly as a striker or second striker at Bayern.

“I’m asking him to be a midfielder who breaks out to score from there as it adds another goalscorer.

“Tynecastle in midweek was a big tick in the box in terms of an away game in Scottish football where it’s a little bit fast and frantic.

“Can he handle that as a 20-year-old? I think he handled it really well.”
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Feel like someone’s pissed in my cornflakes this morning reading that.

Think we all assumed we had an agreement with Bayern that if we paid the agreed fee and he wanted to join then the deal could be done.

Seems a little strange and heavily weighted in munichs favour.

Also is there anything to stop them from just selling him to another club for more than £5miilion/whatever agreed fee is?
 
While we're all (rightly) excited by Tillman, let's remember he's still in Scotland. Teams might see his potential but I don't think anyone is suddenly buying him for a large amount based on a season up here with our utter shite performances in the CL.
 
I think the lad has shown that he can mix it on the pitch - just needed the encouragement and support to do it.

And that, added to his undoubted skill, talent, game awareness and technical ability is very welcome.

He'll need to want the move but I'd take him any day of the week.
 
It will come down to Malik, does he want to play in a shit league and maybe be a fan’s favourite, or go to a better league, without getting smashed every other week by shit players and also having his commitment questioned by his own fans!!
Enjoy him while we can, loan deals work sometimes for both parties.
In this case I think it’s for the player and I for one wouldn’t blame him for going elsewhere.
I hope he stays but something inside tells me differently.
 
LoganBear said:
Feel like someone’s pissed in my cornflakes this morning reading that.

Think we all assumed we had an agreement with Bayern that if we paid the agreed fee and he wanted to join then the deal could be done.

Seems a little strange and heavily weighted in munichs favour.

Also is there anything to stop them from just selling him to another club for more than £5miilion/whatever agreed fee is?
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Yes. Bayern either keep him, or they sell him to us for £5million.

They can’t just ignore us and sell him to someone else for £10million, it’s now how it works, having the clause to begin with would then become irrelevant
 
Maida Vale Bear said:
You should bookmark this post mate. I think Matondo's attitude was wrong as in "I'm gonna skoosh this". He's had a chance to see that theres a lot more to it and I expect we will maybe all have a bit of a mind change.
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I can't see it. I genuinely can't remember the last time we have signed a player and I haven't at least saw potential in them, or thought 'there is a player there'! But Matondo is just utterly dire, has no skill, no awareness, no control.
 
Barrymoped said:
Yes. Bayern either keep him, or they sell him to us for £5million.

They can’t just ignore us and sell him to someone else for £10million, it’s now how it works, having the clause to begin with would then become irrelevant
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So if they decide to keep him.

At what point are they allowed to sell him to someone else?

A week?
A month?
The next transfer window?

You see my confusion?
 
ecossebear said:
I can't see it. I genuinely can't remember the last time we have signed a player and I haven't at least saw potential in them, or thought 'there is a player there'! But Matondo is just utterly dire, has no skill, no awareness, no control.
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There was a wee suggestion that his attitude honked when he arrived but that he had been reeled in. Beale has been defending him and comparing him to Sakala - who knows.
 
Interesting comment from Beale thet one scenario could be Bayern want him for their first team squad in the Summer. Do we still activate the buy and then sell him back?
Is a possible worst case scenario, free money?
 
Arkanoid said:
Interesting comment from Beale thet one scenario could be Bayern want him for their first team squad in the Summer. Do we still activate the buy and then sell him back?
Is a possible worst case scenario, free money?
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I’d say in that scenrio we would roll any excess buyback money into our relationship with Bayern. As in we might be getting another few loans with similar deals in the future and maybe they pick up more of the wages going forward or forgoe any loan fees.

It would be 100% in bayerns interest to sell to us as planned and he gets another year of domestic football, euro games and hopefully some silver wear by the end of the season he could be worth another 50% higher….but crucially Bayerns (presumably low) buy back fee will be the same in day 1 of his rangers contract or year 4. They’d be better waiting to activate it until the point where he outgrows rangers and needs to move to develop further as however good he is now he’s obv not ready for their first team yet anyway.
 
I’m not concerned about Bayern wanting to keep him. With the greatest respect to Tillman, I don’t see him as getting in their team.

The fee also seems to have been agreed if they want to sell him, so again not worried about that.

My only concern would be if he wants to commit to playing in Scotland beyond this season. If he is happy to, then I think the deal will be a relatively straightforward one.

He may get a more financially lucrative offer to him personally in a better league. That’s the only sticking point I can see.
 
When he first arrived everyone swooned at his touch, movement and eye for goal, but he quickly began to disappear in games and his lack of effort in some of them was bordering on the criminal.

He looks rejuvenated under Beale however, as do many of our other players, so I think a big part of that falling away probably was a lack of direction and development under the previous managerial team.

Now £5m is looking like a no brainer and I’m pretty confident the club feel similarly.
 
Mview83 said:
Bayern don’t have a choice if Tillman wants to join us and we pay the fee as agreed.
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Beale's saying today that it's up to Bayern whether they sell. If they do we have first refusal. The loan doesn't seem to have a compulsory purchase attached but instead an agreed fee if they do decide to sell.

I agree though, if Tillman wants to join it's likely Bayern will let him go.
 
King Richard Gough said:
I’m not concerned about Bayern wanting to keep him. With the greatest respect to Tillman, I don’t see him as getting in their team.

The fee also seems to have been agreed if they want to sell him, so again not worried about that.

My only concern would be if he wants to commit to playing in Scotland beyond this season. If he is happy to, then I think the deal will be a relatively straightforward one.

He may get a more financially lucrative offer to him personally in a better league. That’s the only sticking point I can see.
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Him playing well in Scotland isnt going to persuade Bayern to put him in their first team IMO. I just can’t see that being an issue.
 
LoganBear said:
So if they decide to keep him.

At what point are they allowed to sell him to someone else?

A week?
A month?
The next transfer window?

You see my confusion?
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It’s certainly not in the same transfer window that’s for sure, unless we decide not to take up our option, then they can sell him for whatever they want.
 
Barrymoped said:
It’s certainly not in the same transfer window that’s for sure, unless we decide not to take up our option, then they can sell him for whatever they want.
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You know this for fact that munich can’t sell him in that transfer window?

Can they loan to someone else with a guaranteed buy in 6 months?

It all seems a bit vague to me.
 
truebluesince82 said:
What part of he has already agreed to the deal do you not get? Tillman won't get to opt out. He signed the deal including further purchase before he came
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All we have agreed is a loan with an option to buy. There's nothing out there saying he has agreed permanent terms because a deal like that wouldn't be possible.

What we don't know is whether the option has a window after his loan is finished, or if it has a time lapse until end of May. If the latter, then no reason to wait at all.

We should definitely be looking to close this out. Imagine missing out on having him next season.
 
The guy is quality. I'd be delighted if we could get him a bit cheaper, say £3m, but have a feeling we could regret it if we dont sign him. Not sure I can think of much better that we could get for £5m.
 
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