Tom English - Rangers = sectarian, Celtic = Jolly craicsters

Basically Rangers fans sign sectarian songs. Celtic can sing what they want is what I took from that.

I don't pretend to make out that everything we sing is seen as totally acceptable but ffs they glorify murderers basically and hate everything British. Also, this hun isn't sectarian pish is their get out of jail card with this stuff. I don't get particularly offended by that word but how they have managed to convince society that its not sectarian really is laughable. Rangers fan= Huns. Hearts fans =Wee Huns. Linfield fans = Huns. What's the common link to these clubs, i wonder...
 
Ironically, Rangers, who were formed for solely sporting reasons are called sectarian, but the club formed by overt sectarian bigots in the east end of Glasgow in 1888 for sectarian purposes, get a free pass from Tom English. This Celtc founded for the poor, by the poor, needs to be challenged every time. It is a lie repeated so often, it is now seen as truth.
 
Tom English, in case anyone is in any doubt, is the most bitter of Irish republicans.

Many years ago, Jeff Randall, who knew him from Fleet Street days, warned Essex Bear about him, and he passed that on to me. EB used to travel up to midweek games with Jeff.

'Not a Celtic fan but hates Rangers" was the phrase I distinctly remember.
 
Clinton Baptiste said:
Basically Rangers fans sign sectarian songs. Celtic can sing what they want is what I took from that.

I don't pretend to make out that everything we sing is seen as totally acceptable but ffs they glorify murderers basically and hate everything British. Also, this hun isn't sectarian pish is their get out of jail card with this stuff. I don't get particularly offended by that word but how they have managed to convince society that its not sectarian really is laughable. Rangers fan= Huns. Hearts fans =Wee Huns. Linfield fans = Huns. What's the common link to these clubs, i wonder...
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I think there was a court case a few years ago they made this, and we should be raising it with nil by mouth, SFA,splf etc that it is sectarian, because it is
 
Clinton Baptiste said:
Basically Rangers fans sign sectarian songs. Celtic can sing what they want is what I took from that.

I don't pretend to make out that everything we sing is seen as totally acceptable but ffs they glorify murderers basically and hate everything British. Also, this hun isn't sectarian pish is their get out of jail card with this stuff. I don't get particularly offended by that word but how they have managed to convince society that its not sectarian really is laughable. Rangers fan= Huns. Hearts fans =Wee Huns. Linfield fans = Huns. What's the common link to these clubs, i wonder...
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They haven’t convinced anyone that “ Hun “ is acceptable or legal . It’s a sectarian term .
 
monkey magic said:
Ironically, Rangers, who were formed for solely sporting reasons are called sectarian, but the club formed by overt sectarian bigots in the east end of Glasgow in 1888 for sectarian purposes, get a free pass from Tom English. This Celtc founded for the poor, by the poor, needs to be challenged every time. It is a lie repeated so often, it is now seen as truth.
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They've got a student doing a PHd into Celtic. He's been beavering away for a few years now. He'll be able to set the record straight in an Irish Kafflik kind of way.
 
Tom English is a bitter wee man. But when it comes to scoring own goals we are the world champions.
Every Rangers supporter on here or anywhere else knows it’s only till the next time.
So let’s do the decent thing and get rid of all non- Rangers songs except the two traditional songs ( the Sash and Derry’s walks) and move on.
Enough is enough !
 
Clinton Baptiste said:
I beg to differ. Say hun in the work place then do the same with 19th Century Terrorist.
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Hun in the work place is treated the exact same as any other sectarian term . The difference you may think you see is that we don’t react the same way of we are called it . You take being called a “ Hun “ in work to your HR dept it’s nailed on sectarian same as 19th Century Terrorist .
 
The same numbskulls would have you believe the 1916_ 22 version of the IRA weren't sectarian.
Tell a lie often enough,it becomes the truth.
 
Albertz Loyal said:
I think there was a court case a few years ago they made this, and we should be raising it with nil by mouth, SFA,splf etc that it is sectarian, because it is
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Another poster has also mentioned that it is classed as sectarian and I have seen the Nil by Mouth stuff. But my point is that ok it may be classed as sectarian technically. But the word Hun does not carry the same weight in Scottish society as the other well known description for the other lot.
 
It’s kind of a shame that the rivalry between us and that lot of cockroaches has a “simple” label of religion. It gives the pious, woke and judgemental something to beat us up with.

There are endless examples of football rivalries around the world some at the core based on religious divide and others on a basic Springfield vs Shelbyville rivalry.

I despise Celtic and I hate their fans for many reasons. The fact I also don’t agree with the Catholic Church, or actually any organised religion that preys on the weak has nothing to do with it
 
Clinton Baptiste said:
Another poster has also mentioned that it is classed as sectarian and I have seen the Nil by Mouth stuff. But my point is that ok it may be classed as sectarian technically. But the word Hun does not carry the same weight in Scottish society as the other well known description for the other lot.
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It isn't meant to, mate. That bigoted mob had their own politicians and academics to framework and then draft legislation as to what constituted sectarianism. That is now being played out in our two-tier judicial system in Scotland. It is they who decide what is or isn't sectarian.
 
Clinton Baptiste said:
Another poster has also mentioned that it is classed as sectarian and I have seen the Nil by Mouth stuff. But my point is that ok it may be classed as sectarian technically. But the word Hun does not carry the same weight in Scottish society as the other well known description for the other lot.
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That's because we dont do enough to stop it. By us Im referring to Rangers.
 
Far more celtic fans illegally show support for a proscribed terrorist group than Rangers fans.

In this country it is illegal to publicly support a proscribed terrorist group, the UVF and IRA are proscribed so it is illegal to publicly support them.

I would say that very few that probably very few Rangers fans show support for the likes of UVF etc. but loads of celtic fans voice support for the IRA.

There was a Scottish woman who was recently nearly charged under the Terrorism Act 2000 for having a UVF flag, but nothing is done to prosecute the celtic fans who illegally show support for the IRA, it just shows you that Police Scotland are only applying the law one way.

People have been done for voicing support for proscribed neo-nazi groups like national action, I don't think the law makes any distinction about the severity of punishment between supporting proscribed groups so it is very strange that the police are not investigating celtic fans for their illegal support of a proscribed terror group.
 
Family bam said:
Morning Tom.

Young man just arrived in the country being racially abused you say - Alfredo Morelos? You said nothing.

Wishing the death of the Rangers Kit man? You say nothing.
Singing about the Ibrox Disaster? You say nothing.
Child abuse on an industrial scale. You say nothing.

You're a hypocritical rat!!
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Singing about potato famines..He would say plenty !!
 
Davie2021 said:
Hun in the work place is treated the exact same as any other sectarian term . The difference you may think you see is that we don’t react the same way of we are called it . You take being called a “ Hun “ in work to your HR dept it’s nailed on sectarian same as 19th Century Terrorist .
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I mean I suppose you can get people in hot water these days for saying very little if you take it far enough and push for it. But my main point is that there is a marked difference in public reaction to both words. Also im sure there was an Ofcom report not so long ago that didnt deem it offensive. You are probably right that because we dont take offence it will have an effect.
 
Here’s a wee story for Tom if he’s looking in.
i absolutely fit your stereotype
I grew up in Ibrox.
I’ve followed Rangers for 60 years and held a Season Ticket for 40.
My Grandfather was an Ulsterman, a Mason and an Orangeman : I know the words, the correct words, to most of our cultural songs.
I consider myself loyal to the Crown ( yes, I understand inherited Monarchy is an anachronism) and to the Union.
I love to see Rangers beat anyone, but enjoy beating Celtic more than an adult should.

Now, here’s the thing.
On Sunday I will not be at Ibrox, I will be at my Two year old grand neice’s Christening, delayed by COVID.
The Church service starts at Noon and I’m told the Mass will take around 45 minutes.
I say Mass as the child is from a Catholic family and is being Christened R.C.

Here’s the thng Tom, I am not unusual amongst the Rangers support, I am the norm: we can celebrate our deeply held beliefs whilst accepting and defending the rights of others to take a different path, provided they do not try to impose their beliefs on me or do me and mine harm I’m fine with it.

Oh, by the way, my Ulsterman grandfather came over in the early years of the 20th century - you could say he was part of the “Irish Diaspora “- and given his Orange & Masonic connections he had no problems gaining fruitful employment. After 6 months of walking the streets and chapping doors he was appointed to the lofty position of “ Labourer” in the Seward Street Sewage Works.
That’s what the Protestant / Masonic / Orange secured you back in the day.
 
Since he is a rugby man, it would be nice to find him at the bottom of a ruck. He would get extra special treatment.
 
Clinton Baptiste said:
I mean I suppose you can get people in hot water these days for saying very little if you take it far enough and push for it. But my main point is that there is a marked difference in public reaction to both words. Also im sure there was an Ofcom report not so long ago that didnt deem it offensive. You are probably right that because we dont take offence it will have an effect.
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The difference is all down to us and our reaction . Legally it’s the exact same .
 
For the vast majority of Rangers fans, in football terms the 19th century terrorist word depicts a Celtic fan. It is not generally seen or used as anti Irish or anti Catholic, albeit a minority still may do. Whenever I see or hear that word, I think Celtic, not Ireland or Catholicism.

However society has deemed it to be linked in historical terms and subsequently offensive, so fair enough, it should not be used. However, if they wish to appropriate that word, then we can do likewise. If they deem the F word offensive, then it is only fair that we do the same with DOB or Hun.

They don’t get to pick and choose what we find offensive or the intention or meaning of a word, and that stands for any part of society in any country, whether that be race, sex or religion.

I think Tom still harbours deep rooted distaste for anything Rangers, even if he still can’t allow himself to admit it. It must be hard for someone who perceives themselves as an unbiased, modern thinking intellectual to be truthfully honest about their own prejudices.
 
Snakehips said:
For the vast majority of Rangers fans, in football terms the 19th century terrorist word depicts a Celtic fan. It is not generally seen or used as anti Irish or anti Catholic, albeit a minority still may do. Whenever I see or hear that word, I think Celtic, not Ireland or Catholicism.

However society has deemed it to be linked in historical terms and subsequently offensive, so fair enough, it should not be used. However, if they wish to appropriate that word, then we can do likewise. If they deem the F word offensive, then it is only fair that we do the same with DOB or Hun.

They don’t get to pick and choose what we find offensive or the intention or meaning of a word, and that stands for any part of society in any country, whether that be race, sex or religion.

I think Tom still harbours deep rooted distaste for anything Rangers, even if he still can’t allow himself to admit it. It must be hard for someone who perceives themselves as an unbiased, modern thinking intellectual to be truthfully honest about their own prejudices.
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Tom English abrogating Celtc and their supporters from anything sectarian is quite staggering, tbh. Their club was founded with a sectarian foundation, and is still there today. They never had a Protestant board director for 106 years. He is either ignorant on Celtc or telling lies. I'd suggest the latter.
 
Super-Swally said:
That's fxckin unbelievable!

Cxnt has the cheek to quote all the brother walfrid p*sh and says that "vast majority of Celtic fans sick to death of IRA songs"? Haha the IRA p*sh is promoted by their own fxckin club!!!!

Yet their support are obsessed with anything anti British and are equally reprehensible when it comes to flash racist and sectarian incidents.

Scum bag!
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To me, their anti British views and prejudices are the main issue and leads them to much of their terrible behaviour on various fronts.

Unsure if being anti-British could be classed as sectarian so maybe they escape coming under that banner by this technicality. They do have thousands in their support that are sectarian, but I would argue a much bigger percentage are anti-British as that is perceived to be more acceptable. I believe sectarianism to relate to political or cultural conflicts but when it comes to conflicts between countries it would be classed as nationalism. Obviously gets complicated as a lot of these people with anti-British views have got to that point because of sectarianism in previous generations where they developed a hatred for Britain. It now has a legitimate outlet by supporting by the SNP.

I would argue that the Rangers support have much less of a problem with sectarianism than the celtic support. With them it's become ingrained in their anti-British outlook, whereas with Rangers we have signed and supported players from all countries and religions. Without generalising too much, I think most of us realise that there is a special breed of celtic supporter found predominantly in the West Coast of Scotland that stokes grievance, and they can be of any religion. This group of people seem to spend their life demeaning and attacking Rangers in various ways. We need to expose this and it sounds as if Tom English is just covering over what I think is the main issue - people need to support their own team and try to avoid being negative to others.
 
I listened to it - unlike most on here by all accounts - and I didn’t think there was a lot wrong with what he had to say. We have a problem with sectarianism period. It needs to be dealt with. It’s a shame so many of us can’t take the valid criticism.
 
Tshirtguy said:
I listened to it - unlike most on here by all accounts - and I didn’t think there was a lot wrong with what he had to say. We have a problem with sectarianism period. It needs to be dealt with. It’s a shame so many of us can’t take the valid criticism.
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Exactly this another FF rant about what they think he might say rather than what he did say.

For the record I think he’s ignored the anti-Protestant aspect of Celtics problem within their support but he didn’t present things in a way that this thread suggests. It’s just daft to want to dismantle his argument when you don’t pay attention to what it is .
 
DylanGer said:
Exactly this another FF rant about what they think he might say rather than what he did say.

For the record I think he’s ignored the anti-Protestant aspect of Celtics problem within their support but he didn’t present things in a way that this thread suggests. It’s just daft to want to dismantle his argument when you don’t pay attention to what it is .
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Bollocks. Celtc are an openly pro-Catholic club and aren't afraid of saying so. They're an Irish Catholic club, as Billy McNeil once also quoted. Their punters have Vatican flags at games, yet folk like English goes along with the " all inclusive, founded by Brother Waldo " horsemanure. In that video clip, he more or less peddles the Republican political songs nonsense versus Rangers fans sectarianism.
 
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Rab_bear said:
I’ve heard this myself. A guy I met from Cork told me that Irish men in Celtic tops are to be avoided as they tend to be complete morons.

I’ve met loads of nice people from Ireland, seems it’s just the ones that support them that are idiots.
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And these same people would presumably have no issue with anyone wearing a Rangers jersey around in public in their fraudulent poverty stricken "free state"?
 
DylanGer said:
Exactly this another FF rant about what they think he might say rather than what he did say.

For the record I think he’s ignored the anti-Protestant aspect of Celtics problem within their support but he didn’t present things in a way that this thread suggests. It’s just daft to want to dismantle his argument when you don’t pay attention to what it is .
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I am not giving him the hits by listening to it.

What are the main differences in what he actually said, compared to how it has been portrayed in this thread?
 
monkey magic said:
Bollocks. Celtc are an openly pro-Catholic club and aren't afraid of saying so. They're an Irish Catholic club, as Billy McNeil once also quoted. Their punters have Vatican flags at games, yet folk like English goes along with the " all inclusive, founded by Brother Waldo " horsemanure. In that video clip, he more or less peddles the Republican political songs nonsense versus Rangers fans sectarianism.
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I don’t think really read what I said I covered the anti-Protestant bit but English was clearly debunking the Brother W bit etc when he spoke about it-he was saying they hide behind that but I get it’s easier just to go on a rant about the whole aspect of the supporters culture rather than pay attention to the actual detail of what he said.
I think he actually says at one stage each side is as bad as each other but I disagree with the specifics of his description and analysis.

If people want to make the argument-which is probably at the core of things-our culture is better than theirs and he is on their side-great knock yourself out.
The points he made albeit not fully expanded upon are not as represented here indeed your point about McNeil’s quote isn’t miles away from what he referred to.
 
DylanGer said:
I don’t think really read what I said I covered the anti-Protestant bit but English was clearly debunking the Brother W bit etc when he spoke about it-he was saying they hide behind that but I get it’s easier just to go on a rant about the whole aspect of the supporters culture rather than pay attention to the actual detail of what he said.
I think he actually says at one stage each side is as bad as each other but I disagree with the specifics of his description and analysis.

If people want to make the argument-which is probably at the core of things-our culture is better than theirs and he is on their side-great knock yourself out.
The points he made albeit not fully expanded upon are not as represented here indeed your point about McNeil’s quote isn’t miles away from what he referred to.
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Not true, mate. Not once has Tom English in Scotland ever called out the myth of Brother Waldo as the patent nonsense that it is, and he's had plenty of opportunities to do so. He says in that clip that we have a worse sectarian problem than Celtc. Just how he quantifies that, especially after the Protestant effigies hanging from the Piggery stands, only he would know.
 
kenikinif said:
Thats why we dont listen
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RangersForever said:
I am not giving him the hits by listening to it.

What are the main differences in what he actually said, compared to how it has been portrayed in this thread?
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Aye mate I’m going to summarise for you because you don’t want to listen to it. The whole bit on the racism and sectarianism is about 8mins….better to make your own mind up .
 
monkey magic said:
Ironically, Rangers, who were formed for solely sporting reasons are called sectarian, but the club formed by overt sectarian bigots in the east end of Glasgow in 1888 for sectarian purposes, get a free pass from Tom English. This Celtc founded for the poor, by the poor, needs to be challenged every time. It is a lie repeated so often, it is now seen as truth.
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And one of Celtic's main men were watching Rangers before Celtic were formed, while Rangers were also involved in matches raising money for Catholic charities
 
monkey magic said:
Not true, mate. Not once has Tom English in Scotland ever called out the myth of Brother Waldo as the patent nonsense that it is, and he's had plenty of opportunities to do so. He says in that clip that we have a worse sectarian problem than Celtc. Just how he quantifies that, especially after the Protestant effigies hanging from the Piggery stands, only he would know.
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And we agree on that specific issue hence my point but he also says he wouldn’t say one side was worse than the other. As he states it’s a complex issue but he absolutely didn’t give a unilateral Celtic good Rangers bad analysis.

In a real debate any switched on Bear could get into the detail with him but that’s not how this thread has panned -there’s next to zero on what he actually said.
 
PT98 said:
The only people who listen to him are ones that already hate us and think we are bigoted scum anyway. Ie mentally challengeds. So it matters not a jot what he says.

In other words dont waste your time listening to him.
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Exactly this, the cvnt only preaches to the converted, he might as well be shouting in an empty room.
 
Shamrock hand and crown said:
Tom English is a bitter wee man. But when it comes to scoring own goals we are the world champions.
Every Rangers supporter on here or anywhere else knows it’s only till the next time.
So let’s do the decent thing and get rid of all non- Rangers songs except the two traditional songs ( the Sash and Derry’s walks) and move on.
Enough is enough !
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There's a few other things need sorted. Eg Super Rangers. Change the naughty word to "cheating" and that's it sorted.

In my opinion the club needs to start talking to fans about the songbook. They dont need to say what's in but they do need to say what's definitely out. Its not that hard to do but it seems those in charge dont know how to do it.

Before I forget. There's a Rangers version of TBB. It should be played before games with the words on the screens. So simple but they dont seem to get it.
 
DylanGer said:
And we agree on that specific issue hence my point but he also says he wouldn’t say one side was worse than the other. As he states it’s a complex issue but he absolutely didn’t give a unilateral Celtic good Rangers bad analysis.

In a real debate any switched on Bear could get into the detail with him but that’s not how this thread has panned -there’s next to zero on what he actually said.
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Good to hear it wasnt all one way.
 
Shamrock hand and crown said:
Tom English is a bitter wee man. But when it comes to scoring own goals we are the world champions.
Every Rangers supporter on here or anywhere else knows it’s only till the next time.
So let’s do the decent thing and get rid of all non- Rangers songs except the two traditional songs ( the Sash and Derry’s walks) and move on.
Enough is enough !
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Celtic score as many "own goals" as us. The difference is the media's reporting.

Once again Rangers could and should put a stop to it but they dont. And so it goes on.
 
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