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Greg Marshall said:
I’ve seen you try to make the point about it being just those songs but the feedback we have is that the other add ons related to religion (such as the add on in Follow Follow) would result in the same charge. It’s imperative that we don’t cause any further damage in Thursday
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There aren't many lines to read between here. And can you comment on anybody asking if we will have any questions to answer from the recent game in Poland?
 
Steve Snedden said:
Agreed.

I also think we've lost TBB but with the right help from The Club we could salvage Follow! Follow!

(the song, not this place, we're all a lost cause :))).
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I'd immediately ask the fans to stop, altogether, singing TBB and Super Rangers until such time that revisions can be made and disseminated to the support (the beginning of 2020/1, for example).

I'd then ask for clarity on the songbook from UEFA on what exactly is banned. We know the songs we sing and their content (add ons and all) and could easily vet it against current guidelines. I'd point out occasions where phrases were sang without citation, and those that were highlighted, and try an get a concrete framework to enforce.

I'm sure much of this is happening/in discussion.
 
Forth Bear said:
In the UEFA charge perhaps, but not in reality. The fact is more than BF1 sang the 'offending' songs on the night.

Personally, I don't think we have a lot of work to do. In Europe, we clearly need to box clever as we have no recourse against UEFA's rules and charges. However, the Club should be pointing out and standing up for the support over the unfair and clear agenda FARE has against against us - citing us after every European match since we returned to the top flight. If Martin Bain had the gumption to call FARE out for what they are, I would hope the current board also would.
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TBB was just BF1. I remember it clearly and was annoyed about it at the time.

FARE are there to enforce Article 14 in UEFA. We don’t have a leg to stand on in defending these songs. There is no way to fight this other than by adapting to the reality of European football in 2019. I know that’s galling to some but it is what it is. It’s time to face it for the good of the club.
 
Greg Marshall said:
In relation to Article 14 it’s anything discriminatory which includes, race, religion etc. So anything relating to the F word as UEFA views that as religious and anything relating to catholics or the pope.
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Framing the Queen as the head of the CoE could be a good way to share our issue with those across the city, looking at their songbook. Thank you for this clarity. The idea that 'anything relating to catholics or the pope' can result in a sanction is extremely vague and dangerous to the club. I hope we are in a position to challenge it if cited for this alone. I understand F is viewed as a slur so has its own classification.
 
Laidlaw Loyal said:
I'd immediately ask the fans to stop, altogether, singing TBB and Super Rangers until such time that revisions can be made and disseminated to the support (the beginning of 2020/1, for example).

I'd then ask for clarity on the songbook from UEFA on what exactly is banned. We know the songs we sing and their content (add ons and all) and could easily vet it against current guidelines. I'd point out occasions where phrases were sang without citation, and those that were highlighted, and try an get a concrete framework to enforce.

I'm sure much of this is happening/in discussion.
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I wish I had your faith.

However, in the course of a relatively short conversation, you've outlined the bones of an engagement strategy, which I'd support.

I really hope the club issue something before Thursday.

I don't like them using fans' organisations as mouthpieces but I'd even accept something from c1872.

We have a massive database of supporter details. Contact them. Let our enemies point and sneer but at least we'd be dealing with the problem.
 
Laidlaw Loyal said:
Framing the Queen as the head of the CoE could be a good way to share our issue with those across the city, looking at their songbook. Thank you for this clarity. The idea that 'anything relating to catholics or the pope' can result in a sanction is extremely vague and dangerous to the club. I hope we are in a position to challenge it if cited for this alone. I understand F is viewed as a slur so has its own classification.
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It would be anything that is considered discriminatory- it is deliberately vague and wide but again it’s the rules of the competition we are in. It’s a tough pill to swallow for some in our support but to reiterate it’s the law of the competition.
 
Greg Marshall said:
TBB was just BF1. I remember it clearly and was annoyed about it at the time.

FARE are there to enforce Article 14 in UEFA. We don’t have a leg to stand on in defending these songs. There is no way to fight this other than by adapting to the reality of European football in 2019. I know that’s galling to some but it is what it is. It’s time to face it for the good of the club.
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Whilst accepting everything that you say, surely in tandem we should be challenging the legitamacy of FARE and their obvious agenda?

I don't see this as mutually exclusive to sorting out our songs.
 
Steve Snedden said:
I wish I had your faith.

However, in the course of a relatively short conversation, you've outlined the bones of an engagement strategy, which I'd support.

I really hope the club issue something before Thursday.

I don't like them using fans' organisations as mouthpieces but I'd even accept something from c1872.

We have a massive database of supporter details. Contact them. Let our enemies point and sneer but at least we'd be dealing with the problem.
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The fact that we're learning things from 4Lads and Follow Follow is an issue in itself. The club need to make a statement and offer clear guidelines that the fans need to follow.

I'd even frame it as 'until we get complete clarity from UEFA, which we are seeking, we ask you to refrain from [clear list of songs and phrases] in order to protect our eligibility for European football. This list will be available on our website. We hope to consult with the fans on this subject throughout the season' in order to offset any pushback.

I'd push for UEFA to vet our songbook and offer clear guidelines, themselves, and use this 'investigative period' to ask the fans to stop singing [x,y,z] completely.
 
Greg Marshall said:
TBB was just BF1. I remember it clearly and was annoyed about it at the time.

FARE are there to enforce Article 14 in UEFA. We don’t have a leg to stand on in defending these songs. There is no way to fight this other than by adapting to the reality of European football in 2019. I know that’s galling to some but it is what it is. It’s time to face it for the good of the club.
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Fair play to you for being open and honest mate. If your mates follow suit the UB can be huge in terms of driving the solution and ensuring we do things properly.
 
Laidlaw Loyal said:
The fact that we're learning things from 4Lads and Follow Follow is an issue in itself. The club need to make a statement and offer clear guidelines that the fans need to follow.

I'd even frame it as 'until we get complete clarity from UEFA, which we are seeking, we ask you to refrain from [clear list of songs and phrases] in order to protect our eligibility for European football. This list will be available on our website. We hope to consult with the fans on this subject throughout the season' in order to offset any pushback.
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Personally I think Greg is saying a lot without actually saying it if that makes sense and it doesn't take much effort to fill in strategically left blanks. Simply put, we're under the microscope as never before on Thursday and absolutely anything contentious needs left at the door until dialogue with the club provides what is and isn't acceptable. It's not a good situation but it's where we are. And I need no lessons from anybody on letting rip with party tunes at Rangers games over the years.
 
Greg Marshall said:
No I wouldn’t - we knew we were charged and were in dialogue with them over it.

For me I want the lads to be proper influencers within the club. Some in our support want to treat them like kids. They aren’t - they have done many positive things and are genuine bluenoses but they have a role to play in modernising our songbook along with those who attend our away fixtures. Change is essential in order for Rangers to thrive. The club is more important than any of us.
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Tell you something mate for Thursday that lazy arsed dj should get on board and start to play ALL our traditional Rangers songs older versions instead of the fucking shite he plays now.
 
Wodrow said:
Personally I think Greg is saying a lot without actually saying it if that makes sense and it doesn't take much effort to fill in strategically left blanks. Simply put, we're under the microscope as never before on Thursday and absolutely anything contentious needs left at the door until dialogue with the club provides what is and isn't acceptable. It's not a good situation but it's where we are. And I need no lessons from anybody on letting rip with party tunes at Rangers games over the years.
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You're exactly right. I worry that the club's tactic to be vague about the specific banned content (or reflect the vagueness of the law) in the hope that we'll just cut out everything contentious is a bit of a long shot to play, but might work. If fans know exactly what is banned/likely to cause citation it would maybe be more effective in the short term but then you'd need to worry about new, emerging issues/chants. It's early days yet.
 
Greg Marshall said:
And I would disagree with you in regards to the events on that evening. It was and I heard it from the Govan Rear so all though it was a small number it was a quiet stadium that night.
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Fair play for venturing on here

No matter who tells them, they arent having it

They think posting up 20000 Rangers fans at Hampden belting out songs in some way excuses them almost getting Rangers put out of UEFA competition.

Theres 1 game yet to have disciplinary review confirmed. It could be an utter disaster.

I think its imperative the club put out a statement however uncomfortable it reads.

Anything referencing

19th Century Terrorists
The Pope
The IRA

Is giving UEFA the opportunity to expel us.

Doesnt need a song list but it does have to be clear. Build my gallows is likely to start off unless you do something, its been every game for months. Whether or not I you or others join in at Scottish matches is irrelevant, it cannot be sung at UEFA matches.

Maybe you just need to put big letters up on the screens or advert boards

‘This is a UEFA match, engage brain before singing, particularly if holding a megaphone’
 
Greg Marshall said:
I’ve seen you try to make the point about it being just those songs but the feedback we have is that the other add ons related to religion (such as the add on in Follow Follow) would result in the same charge. It’s imperative that we don’t cause any further damage in Thursday
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The club need to come out and tell every single person what’s not acceptable mate before thursday.
It would be crazy if they didn’t.

And while there at it get on a plane to Switzerland calling the corrupt cunts from FARE out.
 
Wodrow said:
Personally I think Greg is saying a lot without actually saying it if that makes sense and it doesn't take much effort to fill in strategically left blanks. Simply put, we're under the microscope as never before on Thursday and absolutely anything contentious needs left at the door until dialogue with the club provides what is and isn't acceptable. It's not a good situation but it's where we are. And I need no lessons from anybody on letting rip with party tunes at Rangers games over the years.
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Dialogue between uefa/our club/our support should have started long before now.

5 games have passed since this, we have unnecessarily been allowed to dig a much bigger hole for ourselves.

We are being being played by people with personal vendetta's within the system.
 
Greg Marshall said:
TBB was just BF1. I remember it clearly and was annoyed about it at the time.

FARE are there to enforce Article 14 in UEFA. We don’t have a leg to stand on in defending these songs. There is no way to fight this other than by adapting to the reality of European football in 2019. I know that’s galling to some but it is what it is. It’s time to face it for the good of the club.
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I was also in the GR and it was sung there.

I'm not asking the Club to defend the songs as, like you said, we don't have a leg to stand on as UEFA find them offensive. What I am asking for is the clear bias within FARE to be highlighted by the Club.

There are many who work for FARE who make it their business to damage us in any way they can and they will continue to do so if the Club doesn't call them out. Saying they're there only to "enforce Article 14 in UEFA" is very naive.
 
nelster said:
Fair play for venturing on here

No matter who tells them, they arent having it

They think posting up 20000 Rangers fans at Hampden belting out songs in some way excuses them almost getting Rangers put out of UEFA competition.

Theres 1 game yet to have disciplinary review confirmed. It could be an utter disaster.

I think its imperative the club put a statement however uncomfortable it reads.

Anything referencing

19th Century Terrorists
The Pope
The IRA

Is giving UEFA the opportunity to expel us.

Doesnt need a song list but it does have to be clear. Build my gallows is likely to start off unless you do something, its been every game for months. Whether or not I you or others join in at Scottish matches is irrelevant, it cannot be sung at UEFA matches.

Maybe you just need to put big letters up on the screens or advert games

‘This is a UEFA match, engage brain before singing, particularly if holding a megaphone’
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I was told by a wise man years ago that you need to deal with situations as they are and not how you want them to be. The situation is a few of the songs today could see us playing in an empty stadium after Thursday. It doesn't take much effort to leave songs about the UVF at the front door. Yes there's a debate about which UVF is being referenced but we haven't had that yet and personally I'd think anything like that on Thursday will see us in the dock again.
 
watp85 said:
Too many people are getting caught up in past games.

Let's concentrate on the offending game. The singing originated from BF1. The UB and others are housed there.

That section carrys the can for whoever started the Billy Boys and Super Rangers. Regardless of who joined in around the stadium.

It was one of the quietest European nights I've been to. Even when we scored it was light applause not mass celebrations.

Line in the sand moment and the club and support move on. We know what the club don't want. We know what UEFA don't want.

Let's get 2 victories and have a brilliant week.
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So you’re not guilty if you only join in?

As long as you don’t start it.

Just feel they’re getting a raw deal.

Especially when the songs get sung away from home as well.
 
StirlingGer said:
Half the folk on here will have been singing the same songs against St Josephs (if they actually go to games). Total hypocrites trying to pretend they are whiter than white.
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Correct

Wait until we play the unwashed

If it gets started somewhere others will join in.
 
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Fourladshadadream said:
Correct

Wait until we play the unwashed

If it gets started somewhere others will join in.
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You are all making irrelevant arguments

UEFA games ? No, most of the support have indeed been whiter than white.

Did we sing the billy boys at the UEFA Cup Final ?

Old Trafford ?

Progres Niederkorn 2017 ?

Scottish games. Free for all, everybody is in. Love it. No harm comes to us.

Dont cry just because certain people have been absolutely stupid and appear not be able to be trusted at UEFA games.

Clouding the argument is not helping.
 
dirtyharry said:
Dialogue between uefa/our club/our support should have started long before now.

5 games have passed since this, we have unnecessarily been allowed to dig a much bigger hole for ourselves.

We are being being played by people with personal vendetta's within the system.
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Nobody is denying we are being got at by people who hate us but the unpalatable truth is they have UEFA's ear and by extension us by the short and curlies. But without putting words in anybody's mouth somebody of influence has stipulated a few times on here it is imperative we do not give them ammunition on Thursday. That suggests quite a lot about at least coming through this situation then working on going forward.
 
Wodrow said:
Nobody is denying we are being got at by people who hate us but the unpalatable truth is they have UEFA's ear and by extension us by the short and curlies. But without putting words in anybody's mouth somebody of influence has stipulated a few times on here it is imperative we do not give them ammunition on Thursday. That suggests quite a lot about at least coming through this situation then working on going forward.
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I completely agree mate, not arguing with any of that.

As has been mentioned on another thread, what are the chances of more sanctions coming from the 5 games played since then?

IMO, the club really need to stand up here and fight our corner, fans have been highlighting horrible links between this lot for many years, the club needs to take this fight on, and in a hurry.

This is the hundredth thread on the UB's since Friday, they are being hammered as the easy target and unfortunately the majority are falling for it.

We are being played at the highest levels.
 
Greg Marshall said:
In relation to Article 14 it’s anything discriminatory which includes, race, religion etc. So anything relating to the F word as UEFA views that as religious and anything relating to catholics or the pope.
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Have uefa ever charged a certain spanish club for a clearly sectarian signing policy
 
No problem with UB ,just don’t sing the songs that will get us into trouble .

Don’t know who it was today but the “we Are not sectarian” pish was cringe off the scale .

The UVF ? Really ? The uvf have %^*& all to do with Glasgow Rangers football club .
 
Blue Tack said:
No problem with UB ,just don’t sing the songs that will get us into trouble .

Don’t know who it was today but the “we Are not sectarian” pish was cringe off the scale .

The UVF ? Really ? The uvf have %^*& all to do with Glasgow Rangers football club .
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You could change UVF to RFC and the song would be 10xs better.
 
Heres a question ,where did the everyone anyone campaign come from,I always had my thoughts about its timing,do you think the club knew this was coming when they launched this
 
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