We are a better club now

[Northampton_Loyalist]

We are ahead of where we were? Ok bud. I rest my case.

You do not have a case. We are so clearly ahead today of where we were in 2011 that it should not need to be said really.

Murray to King
£18 million debt to £0 debt
minus £4 million net transfer spend to £10 million net transfer spend
Aged squad worth not a huge amount to young squad worth a good deal more.

Our revenue is down, for sure, but we are not wasting £10 million plus per year servicing debt.



Could things have been better for us if the shit storm did not head our way? Obviously
Are things better right now than they were then? Equally as obvious


You completely failed to grasp the point and have been looking to fight your way around it since then. Leave it be or start a thread to discuss the hypotheticals of where we could have been had it not all gone tits up. Cheers.

 

[GourockBlue50]

Anyone who thinks we are now better off needs their heads examined.

We have been shat on from a great height without retort.

We lost a lot of good players, were deducted points, have missed out on 3 or 4 titles not to mention cups as well. We have also lost out on millions of pounds in income, revenue streams and transfer fees.

Our rivals mock us and by my judgement we are at best 80% on the road to recovery.

 

[RainMan1972]

Before this we were a self-sustaining Club paying back £2m of debt a year.

We’re nowhere close to break-even at the minute and it’ll be years until we are.

Years away?

You mean 8 months away surely.

Morelos £25 Million + = At least breaking even.

 

[TheBearNecessities]

Anyone who thinks we are now better off needs their heads examined.

We have been shat on from a great height without retort.

We lost a lot of good players, were deducted points, have missed out on 3 or 4 titles not to mention cups as well. We have also lost out on millions of pounds in income, revenue streams and transfer fees.

Our rivals mock us and by my judgement we are at best 80% on the road to recovery.

Are you comparing 2011 directly to now (the real now, as it is right now)? Or are you comparing where we should've/could've/would've been now (if hadn't been for what happened then), with now (actual real now as it is now?)

If anyone's confused , this clip might help;

 

[Northampton_Loyalist]

Anyone who thinks we are now better off needs their heads examined.

We have been shat on from a great height without retort.

We lost a lot of good players, were deducted points, have missed out on 3 or 4 titles not to mention cups as well. We have also lost out on millions of pounds in income, revenue streams and transfer fees.

Our rivals mock us and by my judgement we are at best 80% on the road to recovery.

I am off my head for thinking that we are better with King over Murray? That we are better with zero debt over £40 million (BTC adjusted), that we are better off with a more a valuable playing squad? That we are better off in terms of where we are as a support? That we are better off in terms of the purpose and direction of the club?


A snapshot of the club today and the club in 2011 shows us to be light-years ahead of where we were.


None of it should have happened. We should not have fought our way from the lowest tier, we should not have had to sell or give away our best players, we should not have had every false accusation and lie thrown at us.

We did have those things though and I take a HUGE, monumental, indescribably large pride in the manner in which it was faced and the eventual outcome.


Nobody involved should ever by forgotten or forgiven. No club, chairman, individual or media outlet. Not one. Their hands are not cleaned by where we have gotten back to and nothing, in my eyes, will ever see forgiveness given.

What I can, and will, do is look back on it all with a growing sense of pride that we weathered the absolute best they had and are now ahead of where we were when it all started. They must look at us and feel sick, knowing they threw everything they could at the club and it came through.

Don't play down where we are now. Embrace it, we have travelled through fire to get this far and a small step further will send them to their graves.

 

[Careca]

You do not have a case. We are so clearly ahead today of where we were in 2011 that it should not need to be said really.

Murray to King
£18 million debt to £0 debt
minus £4 million net transfer spend to £10 million net transfer spend
Aged squad worth not a huge amount to young squad worth a good deal more.

Our revenue is down, for sure, but we are not wasting £10 million plus per year servicing debt.



Could things have been better for us if the shit storm did not head our way? Obviously
Are things better right now than they were then? Equally as obvious


You completely failed to grasp the point and have been looking to fight your way around it since then. Leave it be or start a thread to discuss the hypotheticals of where we could have been had it not all gone tits up. Cheers.

Your point was we are better off now. I’ve grasped it. The answer I have gave you is no, we are not better off and probably never will be. We have lost things that can never be replaced.

Although it’s looking much better after the darkness, we have done nothing, and won nothing and as yet and need to thank directors for soft loans and goodwill.

 

[Northampton_Loyalist]

Another 'little' point that some people are glossing over is Murray. They are saying we would be further ahead today than we are if things had not gone the way they did. Just where is that thought coming from? Murray who was at the club for decades leading up to the mess, who helped steer us into it? He would today have us as a towering institute? There is simply not one shred of evidence that this is the case.


We would have had to service £40ish million debt. That would have taken another 6 or 7 years of net negative spending on players. The scum would still have had their runs at the CL and we would still have had Murray. If it is in some hope that he would have sold us, you are truly into the realms of wishful thinking and nothing more.

 

[Northampton_Loyalist]

Your point was we are better off now. I’ve grasped it. The answer I have gave you is no, we are not better off and probably never will be. We have lost things that can never be replaced.

Although it’s looking much better after the darkness, we have done nothing, and won nothing and as yet and need to thank directors for soft loans and goodwill.

You have not once made that point. It was not your point at any stage and it is now you simply trying to dig upwards. You have wasted enough bandwidth for one day. Take it somewhere else.

 

[Careca]

You have not once made that point. It was not your point at any stage and it is now you simply trying to dig upwards. You have wasted enough bandwidth for one day. Take it somewhere else.

Let’s break it down to brass tacks

1. You think we are now better off, as your header and subsequent waffling.

2. I don’t and can’t comprehend how anyone could possibly think this.

 

[Northampton_Loyalist]

Let’s break it down to brass tacks

1. You think we are now better off, as your header and subsequent waffling.

2. I don’t and can’t comprehend how anyone could possibly think this.

You not comprehending something is the absolute least surprising thing on the forum today in fairness.


Why don't you try explaining why you would rather by under Murray and £40 million in debt than where we are today and take it from there?

 

[Forever blue]

If your team is playing in blue, at Ibrox Stadium, and the fans still sing 'there's not a team like the Glasgow Rangers' then it's still Rangers to me.

Now .. Always .. Forever

 

[Careca]

You not comprehending something is the absolute least surprising thing on the forum today in fairness.


Why don't you try explaining why you would rather by under Murray and £40 million in debt than where we are today and take it from there?

Oh, you want me to expand on it now? You didn’t two replies ago.

In the real world or in your hypothetical universe where we have won nothing but have players on paper worth pure mullions, where this is better than having our near 150 year dignity intact and possibly 4 or 5 of the last SPL titles?

The actual debt we had under Murray was under control and as Alistair Johnstone and Paul Murray have said, it was reducing year on year. We were hamstrung by a dark tax cloud for nearly 5 years BEFORE 2012 which should never have been.

As I said, let’s keep it simple. You think we are better off now. I don’t and never will.

 

[Northampton_Loyalist]

Oh, you want me to expand on it now? You didn’t two replies ago.

In the real world or in your hypothetical universe where we have won nothing but have players on paper worth pure mullions, where this is better than having our near 150 year dignity intact and possibly 4 or 5 of the last SPL titles?

The actual debt we had under Murray was under control and as Alistair Johnstone and Paul Murray have said, it was reducing year on year. We were hamstrung by a dark tax cloud for nearly 5 years BEFORE 2012 which should never have been.

As I said, let’s keep it simple. You think we are better off now. I don’t and never will.

If you want to address the points I have made, instead of the made up points you want me to have made, I am all for it. This is a forum, after-all.


We were under Murray and downsizing significantly. We were being de-facto run by a bank (which may well not have happened in fairness). We had the £18 million debt (after several years of downsizing) and a further £20 odd million at least from BTC. You think we would have waltzed our way to trophies after another few seasons of pulling in £10 million plus a year from sales and spending £3 million or so? Not a chance on Earth. yes, the debt was being managed. It was being managed by year on year reduction of the quality of the playing staff. Smith spent a huge chunk on his return and from that season on we spent nothing. The squad was aging, assets were being sold and we were relying on the genius of 1 man to win anything, something that would have run out sooner rather than later.

Dignity? I lost zero dignity and neither did the club. We ALL gained it. Dignity is not something other people confer on you. It is the measure of your actions, deeds and words. It is how you react to situations. There was not a shred of lost dignity for the club or anyone who supports it and a good deal gained.

We also have Murray to consider this point. if none of it had happened, he would either A, still own the club or B, have sold it. If it was A, why would you think we would be in some better place today anyway? If it was B, why would you think it would not have led to a further tightening and asset strip as someone else tried to scratch a living from the desert that is Scottish football? He would not deal with King, and vice versa, so he would not own us.


Everything that happened was a disgrace and it is worsened if it transpires that HMRC made an 'honest mistake' but if you feel that it has somehow devalued us, you are sorely mistaken. If you feel that it has left us as a shell, you are sorely mistaken. If you feel it has stripped us of dignity, you are sorely mistaken.


Today, we stand taller than we did in 2011, we are financially more secure, we are heading on a FAR better trajectory, we are owned by a higher calibre of man, we have MUCH more in the way of assets and we have it all with a backdrop of hostility and hatred that has failed to meet it's intended aims. I could not be prouder.

 

[Le Big Bear Bum]

In the spirit of the thread, here's one I'll throw into the mix. And it is based on actual conversations prior to 2012 that I had with a colleague who was (indisputably) very, very close to Murray.

Based on what I heard, I believe that had it been known that our debt was around the £20m mark back then, I think there is a very good chance that Murray would have sold the club to Mike Ashley.

Yes, just take a minute to think about that.

 

[Northampton_Loyalist]

In the spirit of the thread, here's one I'll throw into the mix. And it is based on actual conversations prior to 2012 that I had with a colleague who was (indisputably) very, very close to Murray.

Based on what I heard, I believe that had it been known that our debt was around the £20m mark back then, I think there is a very good chance that Murray would have sold the club to Mike Ashley.

Yes, just take a minute to think about that.

There goes my night's sleep...

 

[Luca Stroppi]

Don’t know what to think of this story? Is it just more mentally challenged Shyte to generate some headlines and cause unrest in our club and among the support whilst filling in the boring meaningless international break?


Without a shadow of a doubt Filthy forces in the shadows from HMRC, the political arena and elsewhere all conspired to damage us irreparably and the foot soldiers in the media and Celtic FC also as an organisation with all it’s cheerleaders whipped everyone into a frenzy of bloodlust with a daily dose of abuse and negativity all designed to inflict maximum damage to our club’s reputation and chances of survival.

The filth TRIED to sap our fans morale and strip us of our dignity in the process of TRYING to kill us of...admittedly it was and has been absolutely torturous at times but they’ve FAILED miserably in killing us off but it would be untrue to say they haven’t done us serious damage as the journey to get back our retail rights and be the dominant force in Scottish football is not yet done.

 

[Le Big Bear Bum]

There goes my night's sleep...

Au contraire. We can all sleep tight and thank our lucky stars that that scenario did not unfold.

But aye, the stuff of nightmares, for sure.

 

[Northampton_Loyalist]

Au contraire. We can all sleep tight and thank our lucky stars that that scenario did not unfold.

But aye, the stuff of nightmares, for sure.

You ever had a near miss in a speeding motor? Trouble sleeping afterwards with the 'what-ifs'? That's what that just did to me!

 

[Le Big Bear Bum]

You ever had a near miss in a speeding motor? Trouble sleeping afterwards with the 'what-ifs'? That's what that just did to me!

Yeah I can well believe it.

 

[Alcatraz Loyal]

Don’t forget that. Our support have proven themselves way above and ahead of any other for the way we reacted to the mess of 2012, the infrastructure, the systems, the solidarity and the direction we are moving are all improved on the Murray years. We are owned by a better class of man, our manager is not Smith but may well lead us to success and we have a more valuable squad now than at any time in our history.


Someone, somewhere, tried to kill us and tried to do it from the top. This was not an attack of petty individuals, it was orchestrated, well, by people of power and influence.

That power and influenced was not enough. They tried to kill the club but instead galvanised the support. They tried to kill the club but instead saw it pass into safer hands. They tried to kill the club and now must watch as it grows stronger and starts to hunt down it’s usual prey.



Nothing, genuinely nothing at all will erase what each of us went through at this point. No salvation will be found in the knowledge of secure vindication and no punishment will change what we lived through. What it will do, should individuals or groups face the music for their actions, is hammer just one more nail into the coffin of their failed ambition, add salt to wounds of a failed murder and be a final little reminder of how they tried to take down a beast and simply made it stronger.

Remember that; through all of the shit and all of the pain, we are today stronger for it.

The phrase, 'What doesn't kill you makes you stronger' has rarely been more apt. Well said OP