We Can't Keep Going Into These Games With James Tavernier as Captain

It’s not cricket. The captain didn’t cost us the game today with his decisions, unfortunately the manager can’t get a handle on the intensity of the old firm games and has been left wanting in all three so far.

You could stick an armband on a mannequin to captain a football team in all honesty and I’d say this issue is at the very bottom of our list currently.
 
Taverneeeeer said:
I think this argument is nonsense personally. He hasnt won as much as he should have, no doubt. How much of that is his fault though? Is he a ‘serial loser’ for not winning in seville even though he got us there, got the golden boot and scored in the shootout in the final? Tav cant do everything. Guys like VVD and Salah have won 2 trophies (I think) in there 6 or whatever years at Liverpool. Are they serial losers?

Sometimes you have players that are good who are let down by players not as good, daft management or a better team on the day.
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This is what Mo Salah has won with Liverpool and its more than 2 trophies



www.transfermarkt.co.uk

Mohamed Salah - Titles & achievements

This statistic shows the achievements of FC Liverpool player Mohamed Salah.
www.transfermarkt.co.uk www.transfermarkt.co.uk
 
RangersLad1983 said:
If PC keeps him get used to it until a manager wakes up and smells the coffee,my opinion
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He’s our top goal scorer, so if we replace him with a defensive full back we also need to replace his goals.

This time next year we will have threads saying that we shouldn’t have replaced him - as he wasn’t the problem.

We need more from several other people/ positions before we look at our right back IMO.
 
BombersBoots said:
Players like Tav and Goldson will cost the manager his job the latter has at least been dropped and will be off in the summer but Tav can not continue at RB.
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It's encouraging that the manager took that position with Goldson. It gives me confidence that he will do the same with Tavernier as well. Perhaps only injuries are keeping Tav in the team just now as his only viable replacement is being asked to play in two or three other positions at the moment.

Clement surely cannot look at his contribution to the Lundstram OG and think that's acceptable from any player nevermind an experienced right back and captain in a derby game.

It does beyond just yesterday anyway, he has cost us numerous goals in big games now and his legs are clearly going as well.
 
Judge said:
He’s our top goal scorer, so if we replace him with a defensive full back we also need to replace his goals.

This time next year we will have threads saying that we shouldn’t have replaced him - as he wasn’t the problem.

We need more from several other people/ positions before we look at our right back IMO.
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I imagine that Clement will, like 99.9% of all other managers, envisage a team that relies on forwards and midfielders to get goals - if he holds onto the job until next season.

Once we’re no longer reliant on Tavernier for attacking output, he’s redundant because he’s nowhere near capable as a defender.
 
prenzlauerbear said:
What isn't true, though? McGregor is a bigger personality on the pitch than Tavernier and his presence rubs through their team. Maeda rinsed him again.
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Maeda is faster than Tavernier and that is always going to be difficult to defend against, especially when there is little protection. He is not terrified of him. I expect Celtic fans to say that, not ours. He actually had a decent game compared to others yesterday. One of the few who was trying to create.
 
The bulk of my blame.It's on Lundstram.
It was a red card all day for someone in a blue shirt and a semi for Collum.
We played a full half with 10 men and its on him.A piss poor decision from a professional player to make that tackle in the manner that he did.
 
Judge said:
He’s our top goal scorer, so if we replace him with a defensive full back we also need to replace his goals.

This time next year we will have threads saying that we shouldn’t have replaced him - as he wasn’t the problem.

We need more from several other people/ positions before we look at our right back IMO.
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Put a more well rounded full back in the team and it might allow us to play a right sided forward instead of a babysitter, We would need to change our full system as everything is to suit a bloody right back
 
brain said:
Why on earth do we have to constantly repeat scum lines on this forum?
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Because until we start to address them internally and stop deluding ourselves then nothing will change.

I'll be the first to admit that I used to defend Tavernier against criticism for far longer than I should have, probably based on his goals and assists etc but there comes a point when you realise the vast majority of them have counted for very little. Less trophies than Alastair Johnston who's barely been here a year is an utter disgrace and there comes a point where it cannot be the fault of every manager that walks through the door either.

At the very least have nothing to lose by replacing him as captain. His goals can be replaced, no other team in Europe relies this much on a right back to score the goals.
 
Safe to say there's more character about their team, McGregor definitely being one of them, who seems to keep them on their toes, till the very last kick of the ball.

After now giving him praise, I'm off to take a practice dive off the Erskine bridge.
 
prenzlauerbear said:
What isn't true, though? McGregor is a bigger personality on the pitch than Tavernier and his presence rubs through their team. Maeda rinsed him again.
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I think what you mean is that McGregor is allowed to be a bigger personality on the pitch than Tav is , for example; Yesterday Mcgregor was treating Collum like an idiot, screaming abuse at him and making rash tackles and yet Collum did nothing. I just do not think Tav would be allowed to get away with the same antics that McGregor does.
 
brain said:
Maeda is faster than Tavernier and that is always going to be difficult to defend against, especially when there is little protection. He is not terrified of him. I expect Celtic fans to say that, not ours. He actually had a decent game compared to others yesterday. One of the few who was trying to create.
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Are you delving into semantics to make an argument here? "Terrified" is a term 90% of football fans use when a winger has his opposite number up the back. Which has been the case in these games over the course of the last 180 minutes.
 
captcaveman said:
I think what you mean is that McGregor is allowed to be a bigger personality on the pitch than Tav is , for example; Yesterday Mcgregor was treating Collum like an idiot, screaming abuse at him and making rash tackles and yet Collum did nothing. I just do not think Tav would be allowed to get away with the same antics that McGregor does.
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Take the blinkers off, When it comes to being a captain McGregor is good at it, as was Lego teeth before him. Same with Barry for us, maybe that’s what we’re missing, a proper old school leader. Who would have thought
 
Judge said:
He’s our top goal scorer, so if we replace him with a defensive full back we also need to replace his goals.

This time next year we will have threads saying that we shouldn’t have replaced him - as he wasn’t the problem.

We need more from several other people/ positions before we look at our right back IMO.
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How about we give his penalties to our striker to help his confidence, and then get the rest of the squad to step up with goals instead of always relying on a defender who can’t defend to score our goals? I don’t understand this idea we can’t drop Tav because he scored us goals. No matter what you think of him we WILL eventually be forced to replace him when he retires or gets too old, so why not take a roll of the dice and do it now? Or will we be refreshing this thread in May 2025 as we look forward to a summer rebuild under Clements replacement with Tav telling us how disappointed he is after another OF defeat? Do we just give him the keys to Ibrox and let him do whatever role he wants?
 
barcelonabear said:
Take the blinkers off, When it comes to being a captain McGregor is good at it, as was Lego teeth before him. Same with Barry for us, maybe that’s what we’re missing, a proper old school leader. Who would have thought
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its nothing to do with "wearing blinkers", he is allowed to get away with a lot more on the pitch .
 
looway said:
The players did mate. The manager was given these players and told to get on with it. These players don't have what it takes, if pep could pick the team we would still have lost.
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Agree it’s on this group of players and they are just not good enough
 
looway said:
The players did mate. The manager was given these players and told to get on with it. These players don't have what it takes, if pep could pick the team we would still have lost.
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Correct. Whilst Old Firms are absolutely a concern, the players totally shat the bed after thinking they'd beaten Motherwell before a ball was kicked. The loss of confidence has been catastrophic and they've been scrambling for it ever since. They just let any slight setback totally bog them down.
 
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I'd love to see Tav without the armband, as I think him playing with a bit more freedom could be a game changer for us. Problem is, if he's stripped of the captaincy there's only one way that's going to end.
 
We are dreadful defensively against them. They carve out chances with ease. I want to see us setting up next season with full-backs who first and foremost can be solid defensively. Yilmaz actually seems to have the full package if we can just keep him fit.

In terms of the armband, we suffer badly from not having any characters in the mould of Scott Arfield. Supreme confidence, brash, bold, cocky, fearless and the ability to always stand and be counted on the big occasions. I wouldn’t necessarily have given Arfield the armband, but just having two or three players in the squad with that kind of character is infectious and brings out a winning mentality amongst the rest of the players.
 
The scum have two very average fullback in Johnston and Taylor and manage to win old firm games

Full back is not our issue, it's the fact our attack is so limp and wasteful

We won titles with the likes of Whittaker and Broadfoot and Tav is better than both of them

What we also had in those teams was the likes of Jelavic, Naismith, Miller, Lafferty, Novo. All guys who could score big goals for us

That is our key problem

I mean as bad as we were last season, we still had goals coming in from Colak, Sakala, Tillman, Arfield and have only replaced those some of those goals with Dessers and Sima
 
stooler said:
The scum have two very average fullback in Johnston and Taylor and manage to win old firm games

Full back is not our issue, it's the fact our attack is so limp and wasteful

We won titles with the likes of Whittaker and Broadfoot and Tav is better than both of them

What we also had in those teams was the likes of Jelavic, Naismith, Miller, Lafferty, Novo. All guys who could score big goals for us

That is our key problem

I mean as bad as we were last season, we still had goals coming in from Colak, Sakala, Tillman, Arfield and have only replaced those some of those goals with Dessers and Sima
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Johnston and Taylor don't constantly sell goals in Old Firms and neither did Whittaker or Broadfoot.
 
stooler said:
The scum have two very average fullback in Johnston and Taylor and manage to win old firm games

Full back is not our issue, it's the fact our attack is so limp and wasteful

We won titles with the likes of Whittaker and Broadfoot and Tav is better than both of them

What we also had in those teams was the likes of Jelavic, Naismith, Miller, Lafferty, Novo. All guys who could score big goals for us

That is our key problem

I mean as bad as we were last season, we still had goals coming in from Colak, Sakala, Tillman, Arfield and have only replaced those some of those goals with Dessers and Sima
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You and I can both see where they are weak.Aberdeen certainly knew and exploited it in the semi final.
Our manager doesn't though for some reason
 
I think I’m at the stage with the usual suspects that I’m so jaded with the same shit time after time that, even if it came to it, I’d rather have similar discussions but about different, new players if we need to.
 
The People said:
Agree it’s on this group of players and they are just not good enough
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I’d like to add it’s not just Tav. I’ve been slating Tav on here today because a) Borna, Roofe and Jack are definitely off, b) Lundstram is almost certainly off and c) Goldson wasn’t playing. Every one of those players need to be gone this summer along with Cantwell, Lawrence and Wright.

Butland and Sterling don’t deserve the atrocious players they have around them. Souttar, Raskin, Yilmaz, Dessers, McAusland, Danilo, Diamonde deserve another chance even as squad players but every one else needs to go. I’d love to keep Sima but we won’t be able to afford him and his injury record for us means we shouldn’t be breaking any transfer records for him.
 
barcelonabear said:
Take the blinkers off, When it comes to being a captain McGregor is good at it, as was Lego teeth before him. Same with Barry for us, maybe that’s what we’re missing, a proper old school leader. Who would have thought
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And we let one who was desperate to come leave for Italy a matter of weeks after travelling to Spain to watch us play in a European final whilst still a player of a club with a fan base that utterly hates us.

Our recruitment is boneheaded to the point of utter stupidity.
 
BobbyShearer said:
I think I’m at the stage with the usual suspects that I’m so jaded with the same shit time after time that, even if it came to it, I’d rather have similar discussions but about different, new players if we need to.
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This is how I’ve felt for years. “We can’t replace Tavs goals” “Goldson is still our best defender” “Lundstram when on form is undroppable”. Let’s try replacing them! And if the replacement is not good enough we replace them too! That’s what football is about. Real Madrid/Man Utd replaced Ronaldo. PSG replaced Messi.
 
Josh Allen said:
And we let one who was desperate to come leave for Italy a matter of weeks after travelling to Spain to watch us play in a European final whilst still a player of a club with a fan base that utterly hates us.

Our recruitment is boneheaded to the point of utter stupidity.
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This will always go down as the biggest “what if” for me. I got slaughtered on here for saying we should have gone for him.
 
ecossebear said:
This is how I’ve felt for years. “We can’t replace Tavs goals” “Goldson is still our best defender” “Lundstram when on form is undroppable”. Let’s try replacing them! And if the replacement is not good enough we replace them too! That’s what football is about. Real Madrid/Man Utd replaced Ronaldo. PSG replaced Messi.
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In an ideal world yes, a world where we have money.

We have wasted millions upon millions in the summer 2023 window alone.

Those wrongs need righted before we replace our top goalscorer IMO.

Had we already replaced Kent, Morelos, Aribo, Jack, Barasic and Lundstrum then would be the time to replace Tav.

As it stands we haven’t replaced any of the above with a superior player (perhaps Ridvan aside).

Therefore the limited funds we have need to address the positions where we are lacking.

Tav is the least of our problems.
 
Judge said:
In an ideal world yes, a world where we have money.

We have wasted millions upon millions in the summer 2023 window alone.

Those wrongs need righted before we replace our top goalscorer IMO.

Had we already replaced Kent, Morelos, Aribo, Jack, Barasic and Lundstrum then would be the time to replace Tav.

As it stands we haven’t replaced any of the above with a superior player (perhaps Ridvan aside).

Therefore the limited funds we have need to address the positions where we are lacking.

Tav is the least of our problems.
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Add Bassey and Davis to that list as well.

Our recruitment has been criminal.
 
ecossebear said:
This is how I’ve felt for years. “We can’t replace Tavs goals” “Goldson is still our best defender” “Lundstram when on form is undroppable”. Let’s try replacing them! And if the replacement is not good enough we replace them too! That’s what football is about. Real Madrid/Man Utd replaced Ronaldo. PSG replaced Messi.
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Tbh I was guilty of this for a while with Goldson, feeling that we couldn’t replace the quality on our budget. Which is bollocks, really, when you think on it properly.

I think the club has a real issue with player recruitment strategy and sales and it stems from never having the balls to put in a proper, genuine DoF model.

Irony of ironies, we’re far too British for our own good when it comes to this.
 
Calvinist said:
The difference between him and McGregor was stark.

McGregor was constantly in Collums ear,winding up our players and encouraging his own.

Tav was nowehere to be seen for most of the game.
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Easy to be in the refs ear when you play in the same area of the pitch the ref patrols, Tavernier is out wide.
That’s why a captain should always be a central player imo.
 
prenzlauerbear said:
Couldn't give a f*ck about goals scored/stats whatever. It just doesn't work going into big matches with him as captain.

I'm sure people will be along with stats and the trophy count etc. But today was ridiciulous again, it's the same mistakes.

A lot of fans have a bizarre Stolkholm syndrome with him, just because he is productive attacking wise doesn't mean he's an average captain at times.
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Why are these things always made about his captaincy? If you want to question his defensive capabilities, fine. There's a case to answer. Those issues will be there with him with or without the armband though. Lundstram didn't do what he did to take the game away from us because Tav is a shit captain. We didn't miss the chances we missed yday because Tav is a shit captain. Tav didn't get done by Maeda yet again because he's a shit captain.
We lose these games because we are not good enough collectively to win them. If you have Butland or Sterling as captain yday the result is exactly the same.
 
Judge said:
In an ideal world yes, a world where we have money.

We have wasted millions upon millions in the summer 2023 window alone.

Those wrongs need righted before we replace our top goalscorer IMO.

Had we already replaced Kent, Morelos, Aribo, Jack, Barasic and Lundstrum then would be the time to replace Tav.

As it stands we haven’t replaced any of the above with a superior player (perhaps Ridvan aside).

Therefore the limited funds we have need to address the positions where we are lacking.

Tav is the least of our problems.
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I posted earlier that we have already replaced: 2 managers, 2 directors of football, first choice goal keeper, first choice striker, star defender, star midfielder, star playmaker, half a dozen board members, CEO, chairman. The only remaining common denominator in the best part of a decade of underachieving is Tav so why not at least try changing him? If it doesn’t work out then what is the risk? We lose another title to the scum as we have continually done with him?
 
psykal said:
Why are you comparing the individual awards of one of the best players in the world to trophies Tav has won at Rangers?
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im not comparing, I was replying to post 529 below from Tavereeeer which mentioned Mo Salah and i was just showing what Salah has won with them.

"I think this argument is nonsense personally. He hasnt won as much as he should have, no doubt. How much of that is his fault though? Is he a ‘serial loser’ for not winning in seville even though he got us there, got the golden boot and scored in the shootout in the final? Tav cant do everything. Guys like VVD and Salah have won 2 trophies (I think) in there 6 or whatever years at Liverpool. Are they serial losers?

Sometimes you have players that are good who are let down by players not as good, daft management or a better team on the day."
 
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ICA_86 said:
I imagine that Clement will, like 99.9% of all other managers, envisage a team that relies on forwards and midfielders to get goals - if he holds onto the job until next season.

Once we’re no longer reliant on Tavernier for attacking output, he’s redundant because he’s nowhere near capable as a defender.
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Wtf , any reason you think he'll not be manager next season ?
 
A RB that cannot defend. How many times is he going to play a ball inside to no one and watch us get punched in the gut.

How often is he going to get caught out at the back post or under a crossed ball like last Sunday against Kilmarnock.

How many times is he going to stand off his man and allow him to deliver a ball into the box that ends up in our net?

I’m sick of him giving away possession with that stupid aimless chip up the park. His passing % was in the 50’s yesterday and he didn’t win a single tackle.

Couldn’t give a shit if he’s entering a testimonial season. If he’s the number 1 RB next season then they’ll be wrapping up 55 and over taking our trophy haul.

Tavernier, Goldson, Balogun, Davies, Souttar and Borna all need moved on. Thrown in Ridvan as he’s a sell able asset and has played less than 50% of games since signing.

The defence is an utter shit show.
 
Josh Allen said:
And we let one who was desperate to come leave for Italy a matter of weeks after travelling to Spain to watch us play in a European final whilst still a player of a club with a fan base that utterly hates us.

Our recruitment is boneheaded to the point of utter stupidity.
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I wanted Lewis Ferguson most on here didn’t, he would have been a fantastic player
 
I think Tav’s time is up with us come the summer, he has won everything with us and competed in the CL. He has went as far as he can and the time feels right that he goes out on a high after winning the SC.
 
barcelonabear said:
I wanted Lewis Ferguson most on here didn’t, he would have been a fantastic player
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Some laugh that posters on here didnt want him and he wasnt good enough.

His Bologne side are third in Seria A and he has just won the best midfielder in Italy.

But FF Da’s know better dont they?…
 
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