We Can't Keep Going Into These Games With James Tavernier as Captain

[ecossebear]

But he’s 33 and his performance levels defensively are dropping pretty rapidly year on year. Do we just keep persevering for another season (or two) because we also need a whole new spine of the team and need to prioritise that?

I’m not even sure of the answer to that myself tbh, it’s a mess and so much investment is needed from front to back. I don’t think Tav is THE main problem right now but I think he is A problem. And its a problem that’s only going to get worse, not better.

When Walter Smith took over from PLG he didn’t need an entire overhaul to turn our fortunes around. He bought Weir, Ehihoglu (spelling) and Thomson and we were instantly better. He knew we needed to build from the back. Now we have a decent right back in Sterling, and an adequate LB in Yilmaz. Even without changing another player if we bring in two defend CBs and a Thomson equivalent in midfield we are instantly a better team. Seeing the back of Borna, Lunny, Tav and Goldson goes a long long way to our future success.

Burland (if we don’t sell him)
Sterling, 2024s Weir, 2024s Cueller, Yilmaz
2024s Thomson, Diamonde
Any front 4

That’s all. 3 absolute quality players and a clear out of the old. Defensively sound and we build from the back. The front four could be Matondo, Dessers, Lammers and Silva and that would win us the league.

 

[FabioSilva'sDUG]

He’s a problem as he still plays a part in oppositions goals.

The pass inside to no one yesterday, failing to stop Maeda, getting caught under a ball last week against Kilmarnock, the goal inside a minute at Ibrox vs Maeda. Caught under a crossed ball at the back post when Motherwell make it 2-1. Caught out at LB when Ross County deliver a ball at 0-0 and thankfully Sima tucked in and followed his runner to put him off and sky it over the bar. Out of position for the Ross County 2nd goal. Wrong side of his man and beaten with ease for their 3rd.

What do you suggest? Dropping him out of the team? Doing so you are also taking away one of our major goal threats. We are still going to lose these games. We have average players all over the pitch and our manager plays hoof ball tactics. I just hope it's because he realises his midfield is dire rather than it being his actual philosophy.

 

[CrookyBlueBear]

People still defending these players have lost it. Utterly lost it.
Just go and support whoever they end up at next.

There's very obviously something wrong when it comes to winning in Scotland - even Gerrard couldn't win a domestic cup - and ir's clear from Sterling's comments there's no belief in the dressing room. It's not coming from recent signings is it?
Outside the title season we haven't won a single crunch game in a title race and put in the same pathetic performances year after year.

That last Old Firm game at Ibrox should have been the last straw for everyone yet people were blaming the wind and claiming "we won the second half."

Last time I'm saying this but Dujon Sterling in the second half showed the kind on conviction few have in the last 6 - 7 years. Don't tell me we've seen anything remotely like that from your heroes outside one title winning season.

Same people defended Kent after he'd basically gave up on the idea of playing in Scotland and Morelos even though he'd clearly sacked his career not just playing for us.

Same with Lundstram.
The usual "people who know anything about football agree with me" pants about why we should extend the contract of a man who played when he fancied it and rarely fancied turning up against the tims

People still defending these players have lost it. Utterly lost it.
Just go and support whoever they end up at next.

There's very obviously something wrong when it comes to winning in Scotland - even Gerrard couldn't win a domestic cup - and ir's clear from Sterling's comments there's no belief in the dressing room. It's not coming from recent signings is it?
Outside the title season we haven't won a single crunch game in a title race and put in the same pathetic performances year after year.

That last Old Firm game at Ibrox should have been the last straw for everyone yet people were blaming the wind and claiming "we won the second half."

Last time I'm saying this but Dujon Sterling in the second half showed the kind on conviction few have in the last 6 - 7 years. Don't tell me we've seen anything remotely like that from your heroes outside one title winning season.

Same people defended Kent after he'd basically gave up on the idea of playing in Scotland and Morelos even though he'd clearly sacked his career not just playing for us.

Same with Lundstram.
The usual "people who know anything about football agree with me" pants about why we should extend the contract of a man who played when he fancied it and rarely fancied turning up against the tims.

Spot on

 

[Josh Allen]

He’s a problem as he still plays a part in oppositions goals.

The pass inside to no one yesterday, failing to stop Maeda, getting caught under a ball last week against Kilmarnock, the goal inside a minute at Ibrox vs Maeda. Caught under a crossed ball at the back post when Motherwell make it 2-1. Caught out at LB when Ross County deliver a ball at 0-0 and thankfully Sima tucked in and followed his runner to put him off and sky it over the bar. Out of position for the Ross County 2nd goal. Wrong side of his man and beaten with ease for their 3rd.

That's all just in the last 10 weeks as well.

Damning.

 

[ecossebear]

How do we pay for replacing a dozen players?

Surely keeping good players you have

I agree with you. However the whole new spine of a team costs money.

Given that Tav isn’t THE main problem, money would be better spent elsewhere.

Check my last post and I’ve said we don’t need to replace 12 players. We need to move Sterling to RB and buy 3 quality players - 2 CBs and a proper midfielder. We could easily lose 15 players and replace them with 3 genuine quality players and we would be a better team.

Out: McLaughlin, Barisic, Tav, Goldson, Davies, Lundstram, Cantwell, Lawrence, Dowell, Jack, Wright, Sima, Silva, Matondo, Lammers, Roofe, Cortes

In: CB, CB, back up LB, back up RB, quality midfielder, winger (x 2), number 10.

17 out, 8 in and instantly a better team.

 

[Judge]

That's all just in the last 10 weeks as well.

Damning.

You could make a list like that for pretty much all of our squad.

A list of names who have contributed less than Tav.

 

[Josh Allen]

What do you suggest? Dropping him out of the team? Doing so you are also taking away one of our major goal threats. We are still going to lose these games. We have average players all over the pitch and our manager plays hoof ball tactics. I just hope it's because he realises his midfield is dire rather than it being his actual philosophy.

Someone else can surely step up and take a penalty for us.

I'm hoping that the only reason he hasn't been replaced there by Sterling is the lack of options in front of him on the right. If Sima is back for the cup final then he has to play in front of Sterling at RB.

 

[ThreestripeS]

What do you suggest? Dropping him out of the team? Doing so you are also taking away one of our major goal threats. We are still going to lose these games. We have average players all over the pitch and our manager plays hoof ball tactics. I just hope it's because he realises his midfield is dire rather than it being his actual philosophy.

Aye well hopefully that changes in 3 games time.

 

[Judge]

Check my last post and I’ve said we don’t need to replace 12 players. We need to move Sterling to RB and buy 3 quality players - 2 CBs and a proper midfielder. We could easily lose 15 players and replace them with 3 genuine quality players and we would be a better team.

Out: McLaughlin, Barisic, Tav, Goldson, Davies, Lundstram, Cantwell, Lawrence, Dowell, Jack, Wright, Sima, Silva, Matondo, Lammers, Roofe, Cortes

In: CB, CB, back up LB, back up RB, quality midfielder, winger (x 2), number 10.

17 out, 8 in and instantly a better team.

Cool but this isn’t football manager and we need subs, particularly with our injury record.

 

[Totti]

Does poor use of money include £35,000 a week for two defenders until their mid 30's and whose best days were three years ago ?

Tav was the top scorer in the EL two years ago and a major factor in us reaching the final. Bit of a jump to say it was three years ago, surely.

FWIW, I think we should be looking for his successor but it’s genuinely pretty far down the priority list. People speak about the role of the captain etc. But losing the experience and leadership of your Arfields, Davo’s, shagger etc has probably had an impact too. Dressing rooms usually have plenty of leaders.

With Lundstram, Jacko and likely one or two more experienced heads moving on we need to recruit some character and leadership to address future captaincy and leaders in the squad. That for me is actually a bigger priority than finding a RB to succeed Tav. Because realistically, that should be Dujon Sterling.

 

[ecossebear]

What do you suggest? Dropping him out of the team? Doing so you are also taking away one of our major goal threats. We are still going to lose these games. We have average players all over the pitch and our manager plays hoof ball tactics. I just hope it's because he realises his midfield is dire rather than it being his actual philosophy.

Yup definitely dropping him from the team. Give the striker the penalties to get his confidence up and empower the rest of the team to score goals instead of relying on the RB.

Like I said, it might not work but I’d rather we bloody tried it than watch the scum get another 19 trophies to our 3 in the next decade.

 

[stonewall Jackson]

He isn’t going to be dropped for the final so the argument is pointless. Both Tavernier and Lundstram will be the first names on the teamsheet.

 

[Manuel]

That's all just in the last 10 weeks as well.

Damning.

It would be if it was true.

 

[Russell Nash2]

Their captain reffed the game, ours was terrified of their winger

Its horrifying watching it on TV
Every single time as it pans into the captains just before they lead the teams out Tavernier looks petrified

 

[Josh Allen]

You could make a list like that for pretty much all of our squad.

A list of names who have contributed less than Tav.

For our captain to be constantly making mistakes and some of our supporters to be excusing it by saying others in the team do it as well sums up the utter loser mentality in sections of our fan base.

Defending him at all costs despite a catalogue of evidence going back years now and justifying it by saying he scores goals (that don't bring success) is soul destroying to read.

As bad as that guy on here that loves Lundstram because he's "the fittest guy at the club". Our expectations and standards are in the absolute gutter.

 

[TerryMunro]

He isn’t going to be dropped for the final so the argument is pointless. Both Tavernier and Lundstram will be the first names on the teamsheet.

Why? If Tavernier plays the game is lost before kickoff. Sterling takes Tavernier’s position and we are instantly a better team.

 

[stonewall Jackson]

Why? If Tavernier plays the game is lost before kickoff. Sterling takes Tavernier’s position and we are instantly a better team.

I agree but does the Manager?

 

[Judge]

Cool - let’s replace the whole squad. Good luck with that.

 

[ecossebear]

Cool but this isn’t football manager and we need subs, particularly with our injury record.

Yeah I was just using that as an example - we definitely need more than 8 new players in. But of that 17 out at least 7 you wouldn’t notice and a further 5 would instantly improve us!

I supported Gerrard when others on here doubted him the first few years. I back Gio till the bitter end when it became obvious he had to go. I got sucked in by the charlatan Beale like everyone else and I fully got onboard the Clement hype train. But I’ve reached my tether with this bunch, and as much as I’d love to see the back of almost every one of this squad I’m realistic to know we will be stuck with a lot of them and need to hope for the best. But in Tav, Goldson, Borna (one of my favourite ever players) and Lundstram they need to go now - it’s them or Clement and I really don’t want to see another manager fail because of the so called “leadership” that call all the shots. I’d like a complete new team but I’ll settle for just replacing those 4.

 

[ecossebear]

Cool - let’s replace the whole squad. Good luck with that.

Nope. Just the 4 in the “leadership group”. Who knows, it may just work! Or we carry on doing what we are doing…

 

[TerryMunro]

I agree but does the Manager?

Surely, it’s obvious where our problem lies. I think he isn’t brave enough. It does serious question his ability to be our manager if he doesn’t have the backbone to make the decisions needed to be made.

 

[Wordy_Rappinghood]

Nope. Just the 4 in the “leadership group”. Who knows, it may just work! Or we carry on doing what we are doing…

"It wasn't Tavernier, it was actually player x making a mistake 5 minutes earlier."

"Yes, he gave the ball away but it was the 9 other outfield players to blame."

"It was the wind."

"You can't replace a whole squad."

Fk me

 

[ecossebear]

Surely, it’s obvious where our problem lies. I think he isn’t brave enough. It does serious question his ability to be our manager if he doesn’t have the backbone to make the decisions needed to be made.

Dropping Goldson showed guts but his defence of Lundstram yesterday and his backing of Tav and Goldson in his interviews are definite red flags. I’m hoping it is purely down to him trying to get the best out of the players in the last few weeks and that he genuinely doesn’t see those 3 as having a big future. If he does then we will have a new manager before the year is out. Rinse and repeat.

 

[Wordy_Rappinghood]

Dropping Goldson showed guts but his defence of Lundstram yesterday and his backing of Tav and Goldson in his interviews are definite red flags. I’m hoping it is purely down to him trying to get the best out of the players in the last few weeks and that he genuinely doesn’t see those 3 as having a big future. If he does then we will have a new manager before the year is out. Rinse and repeat.

Totally agree.

Hopefully he's being canny but we will know soon enough. If Lundstram starts the final we'll have our answer.

 

[ecossebear]

"It wasn't Tavernier, it was actually player x making a mistake 5 minutes earlier."

"Yes, he gave the ball away but it was the 9 other outfield players to blame."

"It was the wind."

"You can't replace a whole squad."

Fk me

“Yeah we finished trophyless as the scum won a treble, but Tav was our top goal scorer”

 

[arnietac1]

Check my last post and I’ve said we don’t need to replace 12 players. We need to move Sterling to RB and buy 3 quality players - 2 CBs and a proper midfielder. We could easily lose 15 players and replace them with 3 genuine quality players and we would be a better team.

Out: McLaughlin, Barisic, Tav, Goldson, Davies, Lundstram, Cantwell, Lawrence, Dowell, Jack, Wright, Sima, Silva, Matondo, Lammers, Roofe, Cortes

In: CB, CB, back up LB, back up RB, quality midfielder, winger (x 2), number 10.

17 out, 8 in and instantly a better team.

17 out and 8 in leaves us 9 short from a squad Pep???

Aye, with our injury history, and your coaching qualities, we would be pulling guys out the stand on a match day to make up a team within a few games.

 

[ecossebear]

Totally agree.

Hopefully he's being canny but we will know soon enough. If Lundstram starts the final we'll have our answer.

I’m really hoping we appeal the red card so the ban is increased from 2 to 3 games! If he starts the final we lose.

 

[stonewall Jackson]

Dropping Goldson showed guts but his defence of Lundstram yesterday and his backing of Tav and Goldson in his interviews are definite red flags. I’m hoping it is purely down to him trying to get the best out of the players in the last few weeks and that he genuinely doesn’t see those 3 as having a big future. If he does then we will have a new manager before the year is out. Rinse and repeat.

Clement is an experienced manager and multiple title winner. We cannot afford to change our Manager at the rate we have.

Give him the summer to gut the present squad and get his own players in.

 

[davhow]

I think that is the least of our worries.

Could argue its the root of our worries.

 

[Judge]

“Yeah we finished trophyless as the scum won a treble, but Tav was our top goal scorer”

Making up quotes just reinforces that you are missing the point.

The squad is a mess - with major changes required - all I’m saying is perhaps starting with our top goal scorer isn’t the place to start.

However apparently we have lots of money and are going to sign 5 starters and a full bench.

 

[ecossebear]

17 out and 8 in leaves us 9 short from a squad Pep???

Aye, with our injury history, and your coaching qualities, we would be pulling guys out the stand on a match day to make up a team within a few games.

I’d have taken a random fan over Lundstram yesterday! In fact I’d take fans over half the boys that started yesterday as at least they would play with passion! Out of that 17 - McLaughlin, Jack, Roofe, Wright, Lawrence, Dowell - how many of those would you notice if they weren’t there? That’s 6 already so we’re only 3 short. Get a few loan players and actually develop our youth.

 

[TerryMunro]

Dropping Goldson showed guts but his defence of Lundstram yesterday and his backing of Tav and Goldson in his interviews are definite red flags. I’m hoping it is purely down to him trying to get the best out of the players in the last few weeks and that he genuinely doesn’t see those 3 as having a big future. If he does then we will have a new manager before the year is out. Rinse and repeat.

Tavernier will take another scalp if he plays next season, that is without question.

 

[MartinS93]

This thread was started after the league Cup final. The league Cup final they won by 2 goals, 2 of many goals they've got from identifying him as our weakest area of the pitch by far. And still there is pages after pages bashing the op and defending Tav.

He has gifted celtic goals continously quite literally every season, bar one.


We deserve everything we get if he's still a starter next season.

 

[ecossebear]

Making up quotes just reinforces that you are missing the point.

The squad is a mess - with major changes required - all I’m saying is perhaps starting with our top goal scorer isn’t the place to start.

However apparently we have lots of money and are going to sign 5 starters and a full bench.

That’s where we disagree. I think replacing our dreadful defender (remember that’s what he is supposed to do) is the single biggest thing we could do to improve our fortunes. One persons top goal scorer is the other persons worst defender and that’s why there are so many arguments and disagreements. However much he has done for us, all the baggage of so many defeats and near misses cannot not be affecting him and when he loses confidence the rest of the team does too. The whole defence is under pressure and the midfield are forced to cover his mistakes.

We don’t have lots of money - we will have very little. So we need to spend it wisely. I’d love to replace almost everyone in the squad but it’s not realistic. So as a priority I’d replace our two centre backs, our midfielder and I’d move Sterling to right back. If I had only 4 changes I was allowed to make that would be them. I don’t think replacing Tav is one of our priorities, I think it is THE priority.

 

[Manuel]

"It wasn't Tavernier, it was actually player x making a mistake 5 minutes earlier."

"Yes, he gave the ball away but it was the 9 other outfield players to blame."

"It was the wind."

"You can't replace a whole squad."

Fk me

There’s people blaming Tavernier for a misplaced pass 40 seconds and about 2 or 3 phases of play earlier.

There’s people blaming Tavernier for Lundstram sticking the ball in the net when he could have stopped and turned on it.

We see you.

 

[A1bertz]

Nothing wrong with Tav as a player or captain today. Lundstram and Kamara being unable to play anything other than walking football cost us. Frustrating that we thought we had solved the midfield issue and then we revert to the one that let us down for five months.

Tav couldn't get near his man today. He couldn't block a cross. He fails time and time again at the basics a full back needs to be able to do.

He can't be a starter for us next season. For the sake of everyone, we need a clean break from Tav, Goldson and Lundstram. It's simply time to move on from all of them.

 

[arnietac1]

I’d have taken a random fan over Lundstram yesterday! In fact I’d take fans over half the boys that started yesterday as at least they would play with passion! Out of that 17 - McLaughlin, Jack, Roofe, Wright, Lawrence, Dowell - how many of those would you notice if they weren’t there? That’s 6 already so we’re only 3 short. Get a few loan players and actually develop our youth.

Feck sake mate; posting bollocks like yer first two sentences to try and justify and validate your point???
Lolz.
Enjoy yer night.

 

[Manuel]

Tavernier will take another scalp if he plays next season, that is without question.

Aye Beale and GvB where the real deal?

 

[cooprfc]

For me, we need a new spine of the team and need to put all our resources into that firstly. We need 2 new cbs, a couple of cms and a number 9.

That's before we pay for Diomande and even replace/buy Sima.

If we had money left after this then we could look at other positions but the spine has to be the priority.

 

[MartinS93]

Players like Tav and Goldson will cost the manager his job the latter has at least been dropped and will be off in the summer but Tav can not continue at RB.

If PC keeps them both he's cost himself his own job.

The scarier thing is that we, until now, have had no one above the football manager in the football department pointing how much he and Goldson have cost us over the years.

 

[CaptainCourageous]

What do you suggest? Dropping him out of the team? Doing so you are also taking away one of our major goal threats. We are still going to lose these games. We have average players all over the pitch and our manager plays hoof ball tactics. I just hope it's because he realises his midfield is dire rather than it being his actual philosophy.

Replace him in the summer.

The manager wanted to keep Lundstram. That’s a worry. If we had Lundstram around next season we’d be in trouble.

No other team competing for titles and trophies relies on one man as heavily as we do. It’s bloody ridiculous.

 

[Mendes Loyal]

One of our most experienced players and so called leaders has just put in one of the worst performances I’ve ever seen at parkhead and here we are talking about Tav again

Give it a rest fs

 

[TerryMunro]

Aye Beale and GvB were the real deal?

They couldn’t drop Tavernier so obviously they weren’t. If this one makes the same mistake he will follow them and we will be having this conversation again about this time next year.

 

[Manuel]

They couldn’t drop Tavernier so obviously they weren’t. If this one makes the same mistake he will follow them and we will be having this conversation again about this time next year.

So they are poor managers, thank you.
Keep appointing crap managers we’ll continue to fail.

 

[MartinS93]

The manager wanted to keep Lundstram. That’s a worry. If we had Lundstram around next season we’d be in trouble.

Don't believe he wanted to keep him at all. If he wanted him to stay, he'd be signed up.

 

[Alpagers]

Since he gifted them that goal in 21 seconds he's been awful. We can't continue like this with a guy that can't show up in our biggest games. Lets face it, how many times can you say he's been 'excellent' against them?

 

[ecossebear]

Feck sake mate; posting bollocks like yer first two sentences to try and justify and validate your point???
Lolz.
Enjoy yer night.

I just can’t understand why so many on here cannot see what is clearly in front of your very eyes! That lot across the city just won their 13th title in 14 years. They just won their 19th trophy in Tavs era. If they win the cup they will have equalled our record of trophies (which stood at 16 when we came back to the top league so 2012 can’t be constantly blamed). Their manager talked about how much they were going to enjoy the game and they did. We have won 1 point out of 12 against them this season. We won 3 out of 12 last season and only when the league was done. We’ve given them £60m by bottling it in a few weeks from a position of strength. We’ve replaced every other player, manager or club personnel in that period. Yet so many on here seem okay with that because the player who has been ever present in this time scores a few penalties and free kicks

 

[TerryMunro]

So they are poor managers, thank you.
Keep appointing crap managers we’ll continue to fail.

Tavernier wouldn’t even get on the substitute bench when we get a real manager. This one didn’t start the season so has some free will but it’s running out.

 

[CaptainCourageous]

Don't believe he wanted to keep him at all. If he wanted him to stay, he'd be signed up.

Not on the wages he was wanting.

 

[Manuel]

Tavernier wouldn’t even get on the substitute bench when we get a real manager. This one didn’t start the season so has some free will but it’s running out.

I’m at the point I’d consider McInnes now, we’ve tried everything else but anytime I hear him as a pundit he’s swoons over Tavernier.