We Can't Keep Going Into These Games With James Tavernier as Captain

[Judge]

I just can’t understand why so many on here cannot see what is clearly in front of your very eyes! That lot across the city just won their 13th title in 14 years. They just won their 19th trophy in Tavs era. If they win the cup they will have equalled our record of trophies (which stood at 16 when we came back to the top league so 2012 can’t be constantly blamed). Their manager talked about how much they were going to enjoy the game and they did. We have won 1 point out of 12 against them this season. We won 3 out of 12 last season and only when the league was done. We’ve given them £60m by bottling it in a few weeks from a position of strength. We’ve replaced every other player, manager or club personnel in that period. Yet so many on here seem okay with that because the player who has been ever present in this time scores a few penalties and free kicks

When you put it like that - I can see why you think it’s one guys fault.

 

[ecossebear]

Aye Beale and GvB where the real deal?

GvB was a proper manager. He was unlucky due to injuries and 2 massive defeats back to back that destroyed confidence. He doesn’t deserve to be listed alongside that used car salesman.

 

[ecossebear]

I’m at the point I’d consider McInnes now, we’ve tried everything else but anytime I hear him as a pundit he’s swoons over Tavernier.

I wonder how many managers we need to go through before we just appoint Tav as gaffer. He seems to run the show anyway. And he’s quite happy with being second best so I guess the board would welcome the lack of ambition

 

[WLF]

You are ignoring his goals. You know, the thing that wins games.

If you want to count the goals he has cost, you need to consider the goals he has scored.

Has he cost us 130 goals?

I don’t think anyone is in doubt that he isn’t the greatest defender - however we have limited funds and have far far bigger problems that need addressing.

Question though, how many has he scored from open play this season, or even in general? Are you saying there isn’t another player out there who can score 70-80% of our penalties? Someone else further up hit the nail on the head, why not just do what other winning football teams do and look to build a side where the bulk of goals come from forward and midfield areas instead of having it geared up to maximise a wing backs output every year? At this point it’s just lunacy. We come into the most important part of the season and he’s had a bunch of shockers including two in two mammoth old firm games and people still want to persevere with this, the mind boggles.

 

[Manuel]

GvB was a proper manager. He was unlucky due to injuries and 2 massive defeats back to back that destroyed confidence. He doesn’t deserve to be listed alongside that used car salesman.

Not so sure, couldn’t get to grips with Scotch football, gave far too much respect to SPFL jobbers, and the horseshoe.
Ironically Goldson being injured cost him his job.

 

[ecossebear]

One of our most experienced players and so called leaders has just put in one of the worst performances I’ve ever seen at parkhead and here we are talking about Tav again

Give it a rest fs

The difference is that player will correctly be out the door in a few weeks time.

 

[MartinS93]

Not on the wages he was wanting.

Aye, because he didn't want him.

 

[Manuel]

Aye, because he didn't want him.

You believe in Santa don’t you?

 

[MartinS93]

You believe in Santa don’t you?

I think the chance that Santa is real is more likely than Tav not gifting the scum another goal and trophy is.

 

[A1bertz]

Replace him in the summer.

The manager wanted to keep Lundstram. That’s a worry. If we had Lundstram around next season we’d be in trouble.

No other team competing for titles and trophies relies on one man as heavily as we do. It’s bloody ridiculous.

This is indeed a worry. If he got his man, there's a strong possibility we'd have seen Tav, Goldson and Lundstram all starting next season. That's beyond scary.

 

[Manuel]

I think the chance that Santa is real is more likely than Tav not gifting the scum another goal and trophy is.

Tav is in your head, the point was on Lundstram and his contract?

 

[Wordy_Rappinghood]

There’s people blaming Tavernier for a misplaced pass 40 seconds and about 2 or 3 phases of play earlier.

There’s people blaming Tavernier for Lundstram sticking the ball in the net when he could have stopped and turned on it.

We see you.

"We see you."

 

[ecossebear]

Question though, how many has he scored from open play this season, or even in general? Are you saying there isn’t another player out there who can score 70-80% of our penalties? Someone else further up hit the nail on the head, why not just do what other winning football teams do and look to build a side where the bulk of goals come from forward and midfield areas instead of having it geared up to go through a wing back every year? At this point it’s just lunacy. We come into the most important part of the season and he’s had a bunch of shockers including two in two mammoth old firm and people still want to persevere with this, the mind boggles.

The Tav worship on here beggars belief. In 2050 he’ll be at fault for all 5 of the goals the scum have scored against us when they win 30 in a row but the fans will still back him as he runs up on his zimmer frame and scores a penalty. Maybe I’m in the minority of the older generation who didn’t just worship players for mediocrity. Since 2012 it seems to be acceptable just to be in the fight. I long for the days where any defeat to that mob was unacceptable and anything short of a treble was a missed opportunity. Now it appears a good season is our captain being top goal scorer.

 

[Diego Maradona]

We absolutely need to try new things as this isn’t working

 

[Judge]

Question though, how many has he scored from open play this season, or even in general? Are you saying there isn’t another player out there who can score 70-80% of our penalties? Someone else further up hit the nail on the head, why not just do what other winning football teams do and look to build a side where the bulk of goals come from forward and midfield areas instead of having it geared up to go through a wing back every year? At this point it’s just lunacy. We come into the most important part of the season and he’s had a bunch of shockers including two in two mammoth old firm and people still want to persevere with this, the mind boggles.

You think we are geared up to go through Tav?

We play hoof ball.

Our midfield and attack is as bad as our leaky defence.

We can’t sign a whole new team, I’m for replacing those under achieving most first.

Tav contributes far more than many others, that’s the only point I’m making.

 

[Manuel]

The Tav worship on here beggars belief. In 2050 he’ll be at fault for all 5 of the goals the scum have scored against us when they win 30 in a row but the fans will still back him as he runs up on his zimmer frame and scores a penalty. Maybe I’m in the minority of the older generation who didn’t just worship players for mediocrity. Since 2012 it seems to be acceptable just to be in the fight. I long for the days where any defeat to that mob was unacceptable and anything short of a treble was a missed opportunity. Now it appears a good season is our captain being top goal scorer.

You’re 39 ya head case, come back when you’ve had some life experience ffs.

 

[Northampton Lodger]

Tav couldn't get near his man today. He couldn't block a cross. He fails time and time again at the basics a full back needs to be able to do.

He can't be a starter for us next season. For the sake of everyone, we need a clean break from Tav, Goldson and Lundstram. It's simply time to move on from all of them.

That was 18 months ago I said that

 

[Judge]

The Tav worship on here beggars belief. In 2050 he’ll be at fault for all 5 of the goals the scum have scored against us when they win 30 in a row but the fans will still back him as he runs up on his zimmer frame and scores a penalty. Maybe I’m in the minority of the older generation who didn’t just worship players for mediocrity. Since 2012 it seems to be acceptable just to be in the fight. I long for the days where any defeat to that mob was unacceptable and anything short of a treble was a missed opportunity. Now it appears a good season is our captain being top goal scorer.

Where did anyone say it was a good season?

I said that replacing our top goal scorer isn’t the priority. Not that I am happy, but I appear to be more a realist that you. As we can’t replace the whole squad.

 

[ecossebear]

You’re 39 ya head case, come back when you’ve had some life experience ffs.

Hey, I feel old

 

[Manuel]

Hey, I feel old

Tell me about it.

 

[MartinS93]

Tav is in your head, the point was on Lundstram and his contract?

It was, but you decided to be a wideo for no reason, have been throughout this thread when disagreeing with other posters and I knew that comment would likely have you raging. Which it will have.

 

[ICA_86]

Maeda is faster than Tavernier and that is always going to be difficult to defend against, especially when there is little protection. He is not terrified of him. I expect Celtic fans to say that, not ours. He actually had a decent game compared to others yesterday. One of the few who was trying to create.

Regardless of how you want to dress it up, Tavernier makes him look like a superstar every time we play them.

 

[WLF]

The Tav worship on here beggars belief. In 2050 he’ll be at fault for all 5 of the goals the scum have scored against us when they win 30 in a row but the fans will still back him as he runs up on his zimmer frame and scores a penalty. Maybe I’m in the minority of the older generation who didn’t just worship players for mediocrity. Since 2012 it seems to be acceptable just to be in the fight. I long for the days where any defeat to that mob was unacceptable and anything short of a treble was a missed opportunity. Now it appears a good season is our captain being top goal scorer.

Think with a lot of it is people just being too proud or too up themselves to admit they’ve called this wrong, even though they’ve been buried under all the evidence that says they’ve backed the wrong horse. It’s just that tribal thing of picking a side and sticking to your guns no matter what happens. Maybe others are just steeped in denial and it’s a coping mechanism for them. Think about this for a second, if Dessers takes penalties for us and even scores 70% of them, he’s sitting on about 35 goals for the season now, does that make him a world beater and an undroppable asset because he’s contributed more than everyone else? I just don’t get how people can still carry on like this.

 

[Manuel]

It was, but you decided to be a wideo for no reason, have been throughout this thread when disagreeing with other posters and I knew that comment would likely have you raging. Which it will have.

Absolutely not, I want a complete change.
You can’t wake up to the fact Clement wanted to keep Lundstram.

 

[WLF]

Regardless of how you want to dress it up, Tavernier makes him look like a superstar every time we play them.

I’ll wager Maeda is faster than most full backs he comes up against, including once’s he’s faced in Europe, but he doesn’t really look like a superstar there. If just being faster than the full back ensures you can rinse them then I’m surprised Gregg Wylde didn’t have a more impressive career at the highest level.

 

[ecossebear]

Where did anyone say it was a good season?

I said that replacing our top goal scorer isn’t the priority. Not that I am happy, but I appear to be more a realist that you. As we can’t replace the whole squad.

I’ve said we don’t need to replace the whole squad. We need to buy two quality centre backs, a quality midfielder and replace Tav at RB with Sterling. Do that and the rest of the team takes care of itself! That’s 3 quality signings and offloading a guy for someone already there. That’s surely not being unrealistic? Clement has 2 options. A) he gets shot of Tav, Lundstram, Goldson and Barisic. B) he goes the way of Gio and Beale and we’ll be commenting on this thread in 12 months time under a new manager. It shouldn’t need saying but doing the same thing over and over again that wasn’t good enough first time round won’t suddenly bring success. Especially when those players are getting older and older.

 

[Judge]

Think with a lot of it is people just being too proud or too up themselves to admit they’ve called this wrong, even though they’ve been buried under all the evidence that says they’ve got it wrong. It’s just that tribal thing of picking a side and sticking to your guns no matter what happens. Maybe others are just steeped in denial and it’s a coping mechanism for them. Think about this for a second, if Dessers takes penalties for us and even scores 70% of them, he’s sitting on about 35 goals for the season now, does that make him a world beater and an undroppable asset because he’s contributed more than everyone else? I just don’t get how people can still carry on like this.

So lose Tav and keep Dessers? Jesus wept.

 

[stonewall Jackson]

Absolutely not, I want a complete change.
You can’t wake up to the fact Clement wanted to keep Lundstram.

And will play him in the Final.

 

[looway]

That post was from February 2023!

Heheh, need to pay attention. Shows that not much changes when the players are the same.

 

[ICA_86]

I’ll wager Maeda is faster than most full backs he comes up against, including once’s he’s faced in Europe, but he doesn’t really look like a superstar there. If just being faster than the full back ensures you can rinse them then I’m surprised Gregg Wylde didn’t have a more impressive career at the highest level.

Correct.

He’s in Tav’s head, it’s clear as day.

 

[MartinS93]

Absolutely not, I want a complete change.
You can’t wake up to the fact Clement wanted to keep Lundstram.

I don't think he did.

And I think offering lower wages is a clear indicator he doesn't see him as a main man.

"But da press conference" I'm sure will be the response. Do you believe in Santa the same way you believe every word that comes out a manager's mouth in a presser?

 

[WLF]

So lose Tav and keep Dessers? Jesus wept.

I think you’ve failed to understand the point I was making there. Point is that with your own logic, you’d be advocating for losing Tav and keeping Dessers if one thing changed within our squad, and that one thing was that Dessers was on penalties instead of the captain. That’s using your logic, because if Dessers was the penalty man, he’d have “contributed more than anyone”.

 

[Judge]

I’ve said we don’t need to replace the whole squad. We need to buy two quality centre backs, a quality midfielder and replace Tav at RB with Sterling. Do that and the rest of the team takes care of itself! That’s 3 quality signings and offloading a guy for someone already there. That’s surely not being unrealistic? Clement has 2 options. A) he gets shot of Tav, Lundstram, Goldson and Barisic. B) he goes the way of Gio and Beale and we’ll be commenting on this thread in 12 months time under a new manager. It shouldn’t need saying but doing the same thing over and over again that wasn’t good enough first time round won’t suddenly bring success. Especially when those players are getting older and older.

I’m saying get rid of Lundstrum, Barasic and Goldson. However if you keep Tav, Sterling can replace Lundstrum in midfield and the money used on a centre half or centre forward.

 

[ecossebear]

So lose Tav and keep Dessers? Jesus wept.

Dessers has only been here 10 months and has scored a lot of goals and presided over a league defeat. Tav has been here 9 years and constantly underperformed, scored lots of goals and presided over 8 league defeats. Why is that so bizarre?

 

[Manuel]

And will play him in the Final.

Very true, he wanted out of that game yesterday, should never play again.

 

[stonewall Jackson]

I’m saying get rid of Lundstrum, Barasic and Goldson. However if you keep Tav, Sterling can replace Lundstrum in midfield and the money used on a centre half or centre forward.

Sterling is not a midfielder.

His position is right back. Replace Lundstram with a competent defensive mid is the way to go.

 

[ecossebear]

I’m saying get rid of Lundstrum, Barasic and Goldson. However if you keep Tav, Sterling can replace Lundstrum in midfield and the money used on a centre half or centre forward.

I actually don’t disagree with you with Sterling in midfield. I just worry that keeping Tav maintains the mentality we have and stops the overhaul of the entire team that is needed. So sell Tav and give Devine a chance at RB? What’s the worst that can happen, we lose another title as we always do?

 

[MartinS93]

Sterling is not a midfielder.

His position is right back. Replace Lundstram with a competent defensive mid is the way to go.

He was our best midfielder when he was in there before Christmas.

This is one of the things Clement's wrong about.

 

[DivRFC]

He’s played 36 Old Firm games and hasn’t even won 10. He’s beat in the tunnel for crying out loud.

 

[ecossebear]

Very true, he wanted out of that game yesterday, should never play again.

I said earlier this thread that is the worst performance I’ve seen by a Rangers player in an OF game. And Ricksen 2000 and McLaughlin 2022 I thought would take some beating!

 

[stonewall Jackson]

Very true, he wanted out of that game yesterday, should never play again.

This guy has previous for this.

In Naples he got himself deliberately booked to miss the final section game against Ajax.

Giving two fingers to GVB in effect. The Manager should have booted him out the door but didn’t have the minerals.

 

[Judge]

Dessers has only been here 10 months and has scored a lot of goals and presided over a league defeat. Tav has been here 9 years and constantly underperformed, scored lots of goals and presided over 8 league defeats. Why is that so bizarre?

I actually don’t disagree with you with Sterling in midfield. I just worry that keeping Tav maintains the mentality we have and stops the overhaul of the entire team that is needed. So sell Tav and give Devine a chance at RB? What’s the worst that can happen, we lose another title as we always do?

Come on - replace Tav with Devine.

Some rebuild that is.

 

[ecossebear]

He was our best midfielder when he was in there before Christmas.

This is one of the things Clement's wrong about.

It says a lot about Sterling that he’s probably our best player in about 5 positions! What I would give for 11 Sterlings.

 

[ICA_86]

And will play him in the Final.

If he plays him in the final, then he’s a fucking lunatic.

 

[ecossebear]

Come on - replace Tav with Devine.

Some rebuild that is.

How many trophies did his 130 goals win? Call me old fashioned but I celebrate silverware and not individual player records.

 

[Judge]

How many trophies did his 130 goals win? Call me old fashioned but I celebrate silverware and not individual player records.

You must have made up where I said I celebrate player records over silverware.

Did I dream Tav winning us the league cup this year?

Did I dream him scoring 3 of our last 4 goals at Parkhead?

You are saying he is THE problem. I disagree.

If we had unlimited funds I would replace him. But we don’t.

We could have had Cafu at right back for the past 9 years and it would have made heehaw difference.

 

[ecossebear]

You must have made up where I said I celebrate player records over silverware.

Did I dream Tav winning us the league cup this year?

Did I dream him scoring 3 of our last 4 goals at Parkhead?

You are saying he is THE problem. I disagree.

If we had unlimited funds I would replace him. But we don’t.

We could have had Cafu at right back for the past 9 years and it would have made heehaw difference.

I didn’t think he was THE problem in recent years, but we’ve changed everything else from the manager to the board to the playing personnel to the back room team and it’s not working. So he’s the last pillar that’s not been changed. I’m not saying it’s guaranteed to work but it’s worth a bloody try! I’m not saying replace him either, I’m saying get rid of him and see if it makes the difference. Put other players in the squad in his position. What’s the worst that can happen? We already lose 19/22 trophies against that mob so what have we got to lose? Just ship him off and at least try something different as continuity is not cutting it.

 

[Totti]

I’ve said we don’t need to replace the whole squad. We need to buy two quality centre backs, a quality midfielder and replace Tav at RB with Sterling. Do that and the rest of the team takes care of itself! That’s 3 quality signings and offloading a guy for someone already there. That’s surely not being unrealistic? Clement has 2 options. A) he gets shot of Tav, Lundstram, Goldson and Barisic. B) he goes the way of Gio and Beale and we’ll be commenting on this thread in 12 months time under a new manager. It shouldn’t need saying but doing the same thing over and over again that wasn’t good enough first time round won’t suddenly bring success. Especially when those players are getting older and older.

We cannot run with the same options in attack.

Roofe is offski, Lammers likely, 3 loanees heading back too. I couldn’t say for sure that any of our attacking options bar Danilo will be here next season. Strengthening or replacing our attack (again) will be right up there in the priority list.

I agree that Sterling should be the natural successor for Tav. But that doesn’t necessarily mean it’s the highest priority to punt him. He’s past his peak age to sell and Clement will (hopefully) be happy for Tav and Sterling to fight it out for RB in the short-term.

 

[Flying_Scotsman]

im not comparing, I was replying to post 529 below from Tavereeeer which mentioned Mo Salah and i was just showing what Salah has won with them.

"I think this argument is nonsense personally. He hasnt won as much as he should have, no doubt. How much of that is his fault though? Is he a ‘serial loser’ for not winning in seville even though he got us there, got the golden boot and scored in the shootout in the final? Tav cant do everything. Guys like VVD and Salah have won 2 trophies (I think) in there 6 or whatever years at Liverpool. Are they serial losers?

Sometimes you have players that are good who are let down by players not as good, daft management or a better team on the day."

We play in Scotland pal where if you play for Rangers or Celtic you're guaranteed to win trophies. Liverpool have a lot more closely matched competitions.

 

[Awaydays72]

Couldn't give a f*ck about goals scored/stats whatever. It just doesn't work going into big matches with him as captain.

I'm sure people will be along with stats and the trophy count etc. But today was ridiciulous again, it's the same mistakes.

A lot of fans have a bizarre Stolkholm syndrome with him, just because he is productive attacking wise doesn't mean he's an average captain at times.

100% agree. I feel the posters that have an issue with this, will also have a tav top 10 goals list.