When and why did Scottish football become so poisonous?

Gheorghe_Hagi said:
I'm 30 so have been watching Scottish football since round about the mid 90s, and I've genuinely never known Scottish football to be as petty, vindictive, poisonous and hate-filled as it is right now especially where Rangers are concerned amongst fans of what seems like every other team in the country. To name but a few things, you have the threats of physical violence against anyone perceived to be "anti-Celtic", the constant paranoia regarding any positive decision in our favour, the shedding of any sense of basic human moral decency to defend the enablers of paedophilia, I could go on indefinitely.

Am I wrong though? Has Scottish football always been like this?

If I'm right, what was the tipping point? Surely it can't have been the events of 2012. Why would that provoke such a response?

Is it due in part to the rise in social media?

The only conclusion I can draw from Scottish football is that the most bitter and hate-filled element of Scottish football has been allowed to become the most successful in recent years.

At its heart football is meant to be fun. I don't think I'm alone in thinking that the constant negativity surrounding our game is just killing any sense of enjoyment that can be taken from it, especially when you know that even something as simple as Rangers winning is going to be met with weeks of nonsense about how we celebrated too much, or we cheated or whatever we did wrong that week.

Interested to hear the thoughts of others on this.
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I am double your age and can say that it’s always been there going back to lengthy bans on Colin Stein and Willie Johnstone at crucial times in the Season. (My Dad also told me about Woodburn before that)

I think that the recent popular use of Social Media and the poisonous nature of the Referendum has greatly added to the problem.

When the SNP, relatively recently, began to attract support outwith their more traditional northern heartlands they had to pander to their new core support in the Central Belt.

This basically meant taking votes away from Labour who had who had been very pro Celtic for as long as I can remember.

I can’t under estimate the benefit we would derive from voting out the SNP in the next Holyrood Elections. Hiwever, talk is cheap and we need to get off our arses and vote anybody but the SNP.

At least this would be a start in returning to the natural order.

NS
 
Its risen to a seriously nasty level with a combination of factors.
The rampant rise of nationalism and its pervading poison in all walks, the failure to kill us off (who in there right minds try to kill off the biggest asset ffs ), the control of the media, the control of the football authorities, dignified silence, Evil John Reid the vile sex pest ably assisted by Liewell the cancer of Scottish football. Add together and we have the Perfect Storm.
You could also add envy to that when we equalled their nine in a row and have still retained the world record in titles. They just can't cope with living in our shadow.

As for other clubs. When we made our way up through the divisions we gave Scottish football a much needed shot in the arm, helping many to become financially solvent, and this has continued in the top flight. Yet the hatred still seeps out from the others and I just don't get why. Has the Nationalist poison permeated into the whole of Scottish football ?
They seem to forget that their sell out Saturdays were a massive flop. Maybe its overdue time to flex the Blue Pound - just to remind them.
 
punk said:
I think it was about 1888 that Scottish football was doomed
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I have to agree,this was the small crack in the dam that turned into a flood. The mentally challenged mhedia now control the narrative as well as mentally challenged placements in football,councils and government setting the aghenda.
 
deedle said:
It’s been heading this way since the media began being taken over by the Celtic- minded in the 90s. The drive against ‘sectarianism’ following devolution and the upsurge in nationalism has effectively turned Rangers into a bogeyman.

The influence of figures like Lawwell and Reid has also had a role, as has the wider dumbing-down of society.
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I can remember the hassle Souness got when he came, if the internet had been about then it would have escalated to these heights.

but overall, all the posters mentioning from 9 in a row from then till now are right, they have been making sure the Celtic minded "people are put in place, I used to argue with my old man when he said it in the 80's that they will get their own people in power that he was paranoid! but...
 
I think it started during 9 in a row in the mid to late nineties.

Once they managed to resolve their own financial difficulties, I believe they engineered a plan to alter the very fabric of Scottish football for their own benefit.

O'Neil, Lennon, Lawell, Reid et al were just the logical extension of this strategy.

Their crowning achievement was the management of the aftermath of our issues in 2012.

It's not just the fact that they've been clever. Wider social changes have conspired to aid them. Not only the growth of the independence movement in Scotland but the rise in British self-hatred and the revisionism of our colonial past.

It's certainly not en vogue to be a working class Protestant male these days. It's worse if you have strong loyalist or Unionist sentiment.

Take middle-class England. The cuddly vision of the IRA seems to have won out in the propaganda war whilst the DUP are openly mocked as a socially backwards organisation.

Our great institution is a lighting rod for a confluence of hatred.

The concern for me is that rot has set in and there is almost nobody with any influence or power prepared to defend our great institution.

I don't know if you know this OP, but at the 1978 WC in Argentina, Scotland stood tall to the strains of GSTQ. IN 1982 it was Scotland the Brave. I forget what year our footballing anthem became Flower of Scotland, 1990 would be my guess.
 
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They thought we were dead in 2012. Now, fans of other sides you would think wouldn't take as much joy in that as fans of St. Pats, but they did. It was some sort of catharsis for the frustration they had endured seeing us pummel their meaningless little clubs season after season after season. The narrative of our admin being that it was deserved due to years of financial impropriety!

That we survived, prospered even in adversity by continuing to fill our stadium in the 4th tier and are now back and looking like returning to being a proper Rangers team is too much for their bitter little minds to handle.

This stems back further of course, due to the narrative being set decades ago of Rangers = bad, Celtic = good.

Couple all of that with the current political climate in Scotland and Rangers being seen as one of the last huge bastions of Unionism and we have the perfect storm for the current hatred and poison shown to our club.

I hate Scotland. Detest the shitty little cesspool. If I didn't have the ties I do, I'd leave in a second and not look back!
 
For me, the Nationalist independence campaign and the 2012 antics of HMRC/SNP/Scottish Government trying to kill the greatest and biggest club in Scotland go hand in hand. The bitterness and hatred due to them not getting independence took everything to a new level. Knowing we never surrendered and re-grouped to fight not only them but the asset strippers who ended up as directors of our club consumes their every thought of every day. Wings over Scotland, Nil By Mouth, anti irish bigotry all offshoots of the Scottish Nazi Party. We never hear much when the full on bigotry is directed the other way. NHS brace yourselves for phonecalls. #55iscomin.
 
2012 and administration.

The rest of Scottish Football, due to the complete lack of leadership by the SFA and SPFL to our crisis, were allowed to decide our fate after years of being dominated by us on the park.

They revelled in sending us to the 3rd Division.
The chairmen of those sides more or less made our manager beg to be kept in the Premier League knowing they would still refuse.
They wanted to humiliate us for the years they could never get close to us on the park.

That's when the full force of their hate came out.

From that day onwards I hold nothing but contempt at all of those cunts.
 
The way we controlled and won the New Year Derby made their fear that we could win 55 realistic and they may not be able to stop us on the pitch. That’s when their controlled establishment went into overdrive to ensure that our squad would be weakened to stop 55. The negativity towards us increased during the Souness/ Smith era and that was just down to jealousy about our standing in British and world football at that time. They want to make sure we never dominate again.
 
A lot can go back to Fergus McCann IMO. He came in, stabilised Celtic and made them "fashionable" again. The celebrity endorsement of them stopping our 10 was boke inducing.

Off the back of that came devolution and the ramping up of "sectarian" legislation led by Celtic fan Joke McConnell. At the same time this was happening, the appointment of MON brought about a period of unprecedented success, all against the backdrop of Rangers downsizing but portrayed in the media as a Celtic being the underdog despite MON spending the guts of £40m in 2 years.

It's easier to narrate when you're on top and narrate they did. Murray's interest waned, Celtic continued to compete like they hadn't for 20 years and the rise of Celtic-minded "journalism" (more like propaganda) aided in their quest to show Celtic - good, Rangers - bad. Perfectly illustrated by their run to Seville - their supporters had indulged in trouble during every away game on their run but little was printed.

Fast forward to 2012, again through help of their friends in the media, the narrative of Rangers cheating was set and happily lapped up by fans of provincial clubs looking for that football-supporter reasoning as to why their own side had always been so sh*te - Rangers were doping.

We've been sleeping for 25 years as the PR war was won.
 
The tim's with their media stoogies, have made Scottish football more poisonous. They have a voice through the media bigots,that they didn't have before. They seized the chance when we were at our weakest,them and the rest of Scotland all put the boot in, at a time we couldn't fight back. The tim's evilness was always there, the media gave them the platform to vent it.
 
A number of key factors, mostly occurring around the same time. Firstly the rise of social media allowed all our enemies the opportunity to attack us 24/7 like never before, and with some success. 2012 changed everything and legitimised the hatred of our club to anyone who didn't like us, and beyond. 2014 independence referendum placed us in direct opposition with a huge chunk of the population of Scotland. The constant media narrative that Rangers = bad.
 
A climate whereby any criticism of Celtic is deemed sectarian and you're a bigot, even when it's simply about football and you're suggesting 'it was never a penalty'.

The non-Celtic supporting media have kowtowed because they can't be bothered with the hassle.

Lennon is a cornerboy. O'Neill came in with his faux intelligence and took things to a new level.

It also doesn't help when Celtic and their supporters don't seem to really enjoy the game.
 
Gheorghe_Hagi said:
I'm 30 so have been watching Scottish football since round about the mid 90s, and I've genuinely never known Scottish football to be as petty, vindictive, poisonous and hate-filled as it is right now especially where Rangers are concerned amongst fans of what seems like every other team in the country. To name but a few things, you have the threats of physical violence against anyone perceived to be "anti-Celtic", the constant paranoia regarding any positive decision in our favour, the shedding of any sense of basic human moral decency to defend the enablers of paedophilia, I could go on indefinitely.

Am I wrong though? Has Scottish football always been like this?

If I'm right, what was the tipping point? Surely it can't have been the events of 2012. Why would that provoke such a response?

Is it due in part to the rise in social media?

The only conclusion I can draw from Scottish football is that the most bitter and hate-filled element of Scottish football has been allowed to become the most successful in recent years.

At its heart football is meant to be fun. I don't think I'm alone in thinking that the constant negativity surrounding our game is just killing any sense of enjoyment that can be taken from it, especially when you know that even something as simple as Rangers winning is going to be met with weeks of nonsense about how we celebrated too much, or we cheated or whatever we did wrong that week.

Interested to hear the thoughts of others on this.
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I agree with what your saying and yes social media is part of it.Its also the way most fans can't see a foul as a foul and every incident is seen through tinted specs.
 
Gheorghe_Hagi said:
I'm 30 so have been watching Scottish football since round about the mid 90s, and I've genuinely never known Scottish football to be as petty, vindictive, poisonous and hate-filled as it is right now especially where Rangers are concerned amongst fans of what seems like every other team in the country. To name but a few things, you have the threats of physical violence against anyone perceived to be "anti-Celtic", the constant paranoia regarding any positive decision in our favour, the shedding of any sense of basic human moral decency to defend the enablers of paedophilia, I could go on indefinitely.

Am I wrong though? Has Scottish football always been like this?

If I'm right, what was the tipping point? Surely it can't have been the events of 2012. Why would that provoke such a response?

Is it due in part to the rise in social media?

The only conclusion I can draw from Scottish football is that the most bitter and hate-filled element of Scottish football has been allowed to become the most successful in recent years.

At its heart football is meant to be fun. I don't think I'm alone in thinking that the constant negativity surrounding our game is just killing any sense of enjoyment that can be taken from it, especially when you know that even something as simple as Rangers winning is going to be met with weeks of nonsense about how we celebrated too much, or we cheated or whatever we did wrong that week.

Interested to hear the thoughts of others on this.
Click to expand...

Like you, Im not enjoying Scottish football now. Its reached the stage where it brings nothing positive to my life and that's after over 50 years supporting Rangers. The constant attacks and the absolute failure to defend us is sickening. Those in charge at Ibrox dont seem to care one bit about how this makes fans feel.
 
Since Souness stamped his authority on our game and sent out the message Rangers are the number one club in Scotland there has been a slide into a cesspit of hate,Niar,trebles,success in Europe and being number one by a country mile has been hard for other clubs to take and our financial troubles gave them all the ammunition they needed to be brothers in hate,Now we have no allies supporters are Rangers or Rangers haters.
 
In my opinion, when they orchestrated the referee strike and got away with it (no official punishment, or even media/popular condemnation) was when they realised that they didn't have to hold back in perverting the running of the game and demonising Rangers.
 
I have to disagree with the OP when he says the fans of every other club hate us. In my work we have may Falkirk, Partick, Hearts, St Boo, Morton and Killie fans and all but one prefers us over the scum. The same goes for the golf club.
I believe it seems that way is because the haters are simply just more vocal, similar to the SNP yes mob. When the referendum was going on they were all over the place spouting their bile but in the end they were fairly well beaten even with 16 year olds getting the vote
 
Lawwell is the catalyst for the bitterness that had always been around, but exacerbated by this odious creature. When our troubles kicked in, he saw the opportunity to kill us off, and eventually see his club rescued and taken in to the welcoming arms of England. His place menin the SFA, SPFL, SNP, media and some Scottish clubs were willing collaborators, but failure to succeed has left them with no option but to continue attacking Rangers in anyway way possible in order to prevent any success.
 
There was a concentrated effort by the Scottish Sporting Media around the start of season 2206/7 IIRC.

our first away game at ICT which the Bigot Peter MaGuire insisted on TV and radio that it was a black day for Scottish sport when the bigots came after the Billy Boys.

They got it through their complaints to another bigot at UEFA and from then on, due to our board stepping back and agreeing, they have had constant free hits since.

It was predicted on here, but we have allowed that shower of miscreants to take over the airwaves and give us it constantly with impunity
 
For me it started as previously stated , when O'neill arrived. The hatred built and built from there.

However the final act that blew the hatred wide open to new levels, was the rise of nationalism, and the referendum.

It created a new monster called the 'Despise everything unionist related'

We fall right into that category, and are indeed despised by every non unionist
 
I don't think David Murray's unwillingness to defend the support can be underestimated. I'm pretty sure he had some sort of handshake deal with the media that they could say whatever they liked about us so long as he wasn't personally implicated.
 
John Reid's labour proganda techniques
The rise of nationalism
Social media giving everyone a voice, even the stupidest
Failure of Rangers to mount a reasonable defence
The exhuberance cup final
 
What has been allowed to happen in this country goes far beyond the boundaries of football I'm afraid. Undiluted and unchallenged sectarianism is at the heart of most of the ills we are witnessing.
 
Three key areas for me:

When we went down the leagues we were expected to never get anywhere near our rightful place again. The fact that we are getting closer and closer ramps up their paranoia and frustration as we edge ever nearer to 55.

Rise in nationalism. We are primarily a pro-union club, this puts yet another target on us from another section of the population/media. They hold influence, and that influence is anti-Rangers for the very large part.

The appointments of that old prick John Reid and shady Lawell, who made significant moves in the media and Scottish game to gain undue influence and power, essentially creating themselves a seat of power which we have not appropriately challenged as a club, focusing more on on-field concerns.

We have no friends in the football governing body
None in the political sphere
None in the media

So it is one way anti-Rangers traffic which then dictates social media behaviour.

We need to win the league and Scottish Cup and we need to appoint someone at boardroom level capable of unpicking Lawells stitching.
 
The 90s fuuked them.

They never won a trophy in 6 years during that time.

Them claimed mason referees. It was even on the STV football show with Tony Roper actively singing who's the mason in the black. That's the first step. Fast forward 24 years later and boom they have won that war.

The paranoia killed them. Remember Tommys team was the better football team than ours and only lost one game if you believe that hype. We were the better team we won the league as we never drew as many pointless games as them.

mentally challengeds in the media changed the way things were reported also.
 
Liewell is most horrible sleekit bastard I have ever come across in football. Both him and Lennon have took the hatred in Scottish football to levels never seen previously
 
Gheorghe_Hagi said:
But we're talking nearly 19 years ago that that happened. nearly 14 years since he left Celtic. Surely it can't be denied that even since then the hatred and bitterness has ramped up. So what exacerbated things?
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Lawwell having too many fingers in too many pies,he has a seat on the SFA,his puppet Doncaster is head honcho at the spfl and I think that those two are having too much of a Timmy influence. The whole place needs an overhaul.
 
In my opinion it kicked off on the day that Graeme Souness walked into Ibrox and Rangers became the dominant force once again in Scottish football. Up until then there had always been intense rivalry between us and that mob, but by and large there was not the same level of hatred or antipathy towards our club from the other clubs that exists these days. An example of this was the attitudes of other Scottish clubs and supporters when we played in Europe. I am of the generation which - with the one club excepted - Rangers supporters were always happy and sometimes very proud to see fellow clubs from Scotland do well in Europe. When I was younger this was reciprocated by fans of other Scottish clubs, yet after Souness' arrival at Ibrox, it became the norm for them to want to see us lose. A lot of it was due to jealousy and a great deal of it was also down to our sports media (including the BBC) being controlled by celtic supporters with an agenda. At least one of them (Murdo McLennan) now sits in a highly prominent position within the SPFL. I don't think the situation will change quickly, but for the sake of the he entire Scottish game it does need tof be changed.
 
Moreloslaces said:
When we came out of admin I reckon. The wanted us dead and buried, hated it when were didn't die.

I have to say though, things ramped way up after we schooled them at Ibrox. They didnt expect that and couldn't handle it.
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Long before then.
In fact, admin was caused, to a point, by their hatred and jealousy.
 
The internet, obviously. Internet chat rooms. Forums. Twitter. Messageboards.

No one is allowed to turn off from football anymore; there is a constantly populated community of fellow fans with whom you can argue, agree, criticise, insult, heckle, round upon or castigate.

It hardens stances, solidifies beliefs, converts non-believers and gives credence to conspiracy theorists. We are, in some way, part of this.
 
Arminius said:
Beat me to that

The very moment sectarian practices entered Scottish football
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I can’t believe it took so long.
I was going to say that it started just after the Whitechapel Murders in 1888.
The guy who was doing these was close to getting caught and buggered off from London and started something even worse, even mor heinous than what he left down there.

Edit: I’m joking here.
Of course people being murdered is much worse the forming a football team but, everything else, I stand by.
 
2014 you wear a no badge you are a orange b wear a poppy you are a orange b taxi diver points to the poppy shakes his head and drives on .Welcome to the republic of Scotland.
 
some on here have short memories I remember when we were signing star English players like Wilkins etc the media up here howled that we were buying the title and depriving young Scottish players the chance.

In my experience it started with the Souness revolution, they couldn't stand it
 
I’m not sure but what I can tell you is that the football scene where I am (Australia) does not have the same poisonous theme to it. Scottish Football is truly riddled and I sometimes wonder if it is actually beyond repair.
 
The rise of the Celtic minded in Scottish society and Scottish football that has been able to peddle their propaganda of Celtic being good and Rangers bad.
A sentiment easily latched onto by the Diddy club Nats who now see us as their natural enemy.
Of course it helps our enemies that neither the club or support is organised to counter this hatred against us which is only going to get worse in the future.
 
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