East Lothian journalist 'in tears' after racial abuse at Rangers game

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Tugay1872 said:
Its really really sad and depressing. Seems as if a minority are committed to our club being the quintessential WASP (white Anglo Saxon Protestant club) that the media want to tar us with, rather than the multicultural one we are now. Wee angry bald men with red faces.

There is an element, and while it does happen at other clubs, that’s just whatabouttery on our part. If you see it call it, self-policing is the only way now. The club have screamed about it till the cows have came home.

The people who get targeted were up until a few decades ago more likely to be as much a British subject as you and I are. Hence all the colonies celebrated Empire Day a century ago, hundreds of millions of the Queens subjects.
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purest bile and complete fantasy. You’re clearly an easy mark
 
Struths Canary said:
It is interesting that the same old faces are now doubling down rather than admit they've been played.

I can't begin to guess why but it is probably a weakness within them.
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When you've got a low self opinion, you'll jump into anything that you think makes you look better than those around...in this case it's being virulently "anti- racist" and going large on the accusations/hyperbole.

We've seen this standard of accusations thrown against the club and acted with a sense of sanity and proportion...not any more.
 
Bear_Bones said:
The irony within this post :)

There's people on this thread saying they know the guy, he's a fellow bear and a good guy.

Cannot see why he'd make this up, and not one of us who go to watch Rangers regularly have not seen or heard some completely unacceptable behavior. 50K go to Ibrox, we have a predominantly well behaved and brilliant support, but let's not pretend that we don't have a few ignorant, bigotted and no doubt racist fans in our midst, like everyone else.
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You can’t see why someone who wants a career as a media personality, but currently has a struggling YouTube channel, would draw potentially national attention to himself on the current hot topic?
 
Tugay1872 said:
What’s fantasy? The empire? Don’t understand your questioning.
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your post is a nasty fantasy of an alternate reality that you want to believe is real. I don’t wish to speculate as to why but it really does take a special somebody to actually want there to be more racism than there actually is. At the football club you profess to support, among your own community, your fellow fan, their fathers and mothers and so on.

the stuff about empire was written by a 10yo
 
Would people feel differently if he had just taken this to the club directly rather than to take it to the media?

There are elements of the story that feel genuine and elements that seem a bit "off" but it's difficult to say if that's because reporters have pushed him for more detail or tried to drive the conversation a specific way.

Shows how poor the journalists actually are at doing their job when they can't get further than "I think it was called the Wee Rangers". It either was or it wasn't. It should be pretty easy to establish exactly what pub he went to and then just report that. "I think it was the Wee Rangers" gives enough leeway to say "oh it must have been somewhere else then" if the pub was to prove the guy was never in there. By then the story would have moved out of the headlines so nobody cares.

Seems to me like the story is specific enough to do damage to the reputation of the club and to fit nicely into the desired narrative but not so specific that the actual details of the events can be corroborated or proven. Also going straight to the media with this but not being specific about which part of the stadium and which pub seems wrong to me.

The club should be taking the lead on this. Reach out to the guy find out exactly where he was sitting and then take it from there.

People are free to believe or not believe but the fact of the matter is that the media haven't even bothered to establish the facts before running with the story and the guys account of events is a bit light on details.

Not sure how it's possible to say anything with any certainty one way or the other.
 
Whilst in poor taste to some, is it racist?
Its like Rupert Grint getting the same treatment and getting Ed Sheerin songs sang to him - he is white and ginger… this chap and Fash are black with black hair.

I dont want anyone leaving a game feeling like that of course but from reading the article it seems (particularly the comment in the stadium) that its a storm in a tea cup.
See these kinda videos with fans singing to stewards that look like Harry Maguire or the big guy from The Chase. Its rarely meant in a hurtful manner.
Granted I am not black so perhaps its lost on me but seems like he maybe a delicate soul easily upset - like most of society now.
Get him a profile on here and he could fill a bath with tears from the posts we all get hammered with!
 
Claverdon Loyal said:
your post is a nasty fantasy of an alternate reality that you want to believe is real. I don’t wish to speculate as to why but it really does take a special somebody to actually want there to be more racism than there actually is.

the stuff about empire was written by a 10yo
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I’m not woke mate, I’m simply someone who understands history. If you actually want to understand the British empire go and educate yourself. The Elizabethans called them ‘blackmores’ and due to still being a religious and not secular society at the time we (the Abrahamic religions of Jews, Christian, Muslims) believed that black people were gave such tone due to the Old Testament tale of the Curse of Ham. It gave us a moral reason to enslave them.

If you want empirical peer reviewed historical data I can point you in the way, if your just trying to be staunch fair enough.

Im not a nationalist or woke.
 
I'll maybe put a hypothesis out there.

Anti SNP banner at the game
This story is published
Brought up at PMQs on Wednesday and scottish football and our support are condemned for Racism
 
RedWhiteBlue said:
Would people feel differently if he had just taken this to the club directly rather than to take it to the media?

There are elements of the story that feel genuine and elements that seem a bit "off" but it's difficult to say if that's because reporters have pushed him for more detail or tried to drive the conversation a specific way.

Shows how poor the journalists actually are at doing their job when they can't get further than "I think it was called the Wee Rangers". It either was or it wasn't. It should be pretty easy to establish exactly what pub he went to and then just report that. "I think it was the Wee Rangers" gives enough leeway to say "oh it must have been somewhere else then" if the pub was to prove the guy was never in there. By then the story would have moved out of the headlines so nobody cares.

Seems to me like the story is specific enough to do damage to the reputation of the club and to fit nicely into the desired narrative but not so specific that the actual details of the events can be corroborated or proven. Also going straight to the media with this but not being specific about which part of the stadium and which pub seems wrong to me.

The club should be taking the lead on this. Reach out to the guy find out exactly where he was sitting and then take it from there.

People are free to believe or not believe but the fact of the matter is that the media haven't even bothered to establish the facts before running with the story and the guys account of events is a bit light on details.

Not sure how it's possible to say anything with any certainty one way or the other.
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My assumption is that they are concerned about reporting anything regarding racism that isn't factual so they have just reported, word for word, what he has said so as not to be liable for any inaccuracies.
 
Someone looking for free publicity by being a victim of discrimination against him,true or false, has hit the jackpot. Whether people believe him or not is up to the individual.
 
GarMckin said:
You can’t see why someone who wants a career as a media personality, but currently has a struggling YouTube channel, would draw potentially national attention to himself on the current hot topic?
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Exactly what I was thinking.

Whether this story is true or not, I bet it does his career opportunities no harm...
 
Tugay1872 said:
Its really really sad and depressing. Seems as if a minority are committed to our club being the quintessential WASP (white Anglo Saxon Protestant club) that the media want to tar us with, rather than the multicultural one we are now. Wee angry bald men with red faces.

There is an element, and while it does happen at other clubs, that’s just whatabouttery on our part. If you see it call it, self-policing is the only way now. The club have screamed about it till the cows have came home.

The people who get targeted were up until a few decades ago more likely to be as much a British subject as you and I are. Hence all the colonies celebrated Empire Day a century ago, hundreds of millions of the Queens subjects.
Click to expand...

How can we call it out when we don't even know where the guy was sitting or what pub he went to?

If the story is true then with the section of the stadium (even better with row and seat) he was sitting in you would probably be able to get a few confirmed season ticket holders to say "yeah, I was there and saw something going on". With the name of the pub then you'd be able to do the same there as well as people would be able to say "I was there and saw this happening". Then you could at least punish those responsible by banning them.

Why is it so important that people believe the story? It either happened or it didn't. At this exact moment there isn't enough out there to come to a conclusion either way.
 
Tugay1872 said:
I’m not woke mate, I’m simply someone who understands history. If you actually want to understand the British empire go and educate yourself. The Elizabethans called them ‘blackmores’ and due to still being a religious and not secular society at the time we (the Abrahamic religions of Jews, Christian, Muslims) believed that black people were gave such tone due to the Old Testament tale of the Curse of Ham. It gave us a moral reason to enslave them.

If you want empirical peer reviewed historical data I can point you in the way, if your just trying to be staunch fair enough.

Im not a nationalist or woke.
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What are you then when you appear determined to push a specific narrative on a football club and the overwhelming majority of supporters?

Do you generalise about other clubs in a similar manner?

Call it out for what it is. A very small minority behaving like morons & scumbags. Unfortunately that is the story the world over.

Hopefully the individual contacts the Club. If so, I’m confident we’ll address it in the proper manner, as we have been doing.
 
RedWhiteBlue said:
Would people feel differently if he had just taken this to the club directly rather than to take it to the media?

There are elements of the story that feel genuine and elements that seem a bit "off" but it's difficult to say if that's because reporters have pushed him for more detail or tried to drive the conversation a specific way.

Shows how poor the journalists actually are at doing their job when they can't get further than "I think it was called the Wee Rangers". It either was or it wasn't. It should be pretty easy to establish exactly what pub he went to and then just report that. "I think it was the Wee Rangers" gives enough leeway to say "oh it must have been somewhere else then" if the pub was to prove the guy was never in there. By then the story would have moved out of the headlines so nobody cares.

Seems to me like the story is specific enough to do damage to the reputation of the club and to fit nicely into the desired narrative but not so specific that the actual details of the events can be corroborated or proven. Also going straight to the media with this but not being specific about which part of the stadium and which pub seems wrong to me.

The club should be taking the lead on this. Reach out to the guy find out exactly where he was sitting and then take it from there.

People are free to believe or not believe but the fact of the matter is that the media haven't even bothered to establish the facts before running with the story and the guys account of events is a bit light on details.

Not sure how it's possible to say anything with any certainty one way or the other.
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If he'd privately taken it to the club, allowed the club to properly investigate, and then act accordingly depending on the outcome, I don't see anyone having an issue with that.

Playing it out in public, on nothing more than heresay, whilst pretending to be a Rangers fan, is why people are massively sceptical. Some have now reached the conclusion that our support as a collective are guilty, without any sort of due process having taken place.

In the eyes of some, job done.
 
Sceptisism hat firmly on (I remember Juicy Smouleitte), however this needs to be thoroughly investigated by the police and club and dealt with either way. There are clearly deniers on here, but some of it is understandable given the efforts by many to damage our clubs reputation.
 
blujay said:
This place is honestly a disgrace and a complete embarrassment.

Three guesses what colour of skin can of aw have that are asking what proof there is. You have no idea what life can still he like for people of colour and how unwelcoming the football environment can be.
Maybe we just listen to people of colour and learn about their experiences. Maybe that might just help.

Have a word with yourselves.

Nice to see so many sound folk on here calling this out for what it is.

This collective voice needs to be louder in our support.

Everyone anyone, let’s actually mean it and live it.
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You can fvck right of with your woke shite.
The was a 'Woman of Colour' who stood beside us at stairway 19 and never had an iota of bother from the surrounding fans and this was when drink was a major factor at games around 60 years ago.
 
BrooklynBlue said:
What are you then when you appear determined to push a specific narrative on a football club and the overwhelming majority of supporters?

Do you generalise about other clubs in a similar manner?

Call it out for what it is. A very small minority behaving like morons & scumbags. Unfortunately that is the story the world over.

Hopefully the individual contacts the Club. If so, I’m confident we’ll address it in the proper manner, as we have been doing.
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Pushing a narrative? It’s the world we live in mate ffs. If you can’t see that because of our club and it’s traditions, that we are easy pickings for this stuff then I don’t know what else to say.

My original post stated a minority want to live up to the whole WASP thing we’re painted as. How the f**k am I wrong? If you know my OP history you’ll know I’m scathing of other clubs, such as them across the Clyde.

Britain has major issues with its past, as do other countries. Is it unpatriotic to call out, or be unstaunch to criticise aspects you’d disagree with? No it’s not.
 
%^*& me…

To not believe this guy is not the right starting position. Whether or not its true or whether it constitutes racism isn’t for anyone here to decide.

Trying to deflect from debate with ‘ah well it’s just a few people stop trying to make out it’s the whole club’ is ridiculous. Nobody here has said that it’s any more than the few individuals mentioned in the OP. On the same front, saying ‘ah well there’s racists everywhere’ is not helpful.

For someone to want to come and see Rangers play because of the amount of BAME players we have isn’t racist. Not in any way shape or form. If that’s the thing that gets him interested in Rangers, then great. (It’s entirely different to wanting to see a team because of a lack of black players/them all being white!)

Over the past few years we’ve had a good number of English players. If we’d had someone come to visit us and take an interest for that reason, nobody would bat an eyelid. In the same vein, nobody would have sang, say, the Defoe song at him just because the visiting fan was English (or any other song about an English player).

Racism isn’t about actions, it’s about how people are made to feel.
 
Dogbert said:
When you've got a low self opinion, you'll jump into anything that you think makes you look better than those around...in this case it's being virulently "anti- racist" and going large on the accusations/hyperbole.

We've seen this standard of accusations thrown against the club and acted with a sense of sanity and proportion...not any more.
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Being virulently anti racist does make you look better than those around...

Not sure that is even debatable.
 
Blair1310 said:
Being virulently anti racist does make you look better than those around...

Not sure that is even debatable.
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Of course it's debatable. When people are so determined to appear publicly anti-racist, that they don't care what they destroy in the process, regardless of guilt, that's a big problem.

99% of our support won't have any time for genuine racism, where there's evidence and due process carried out.
 
I dont know who this guy is but I bet a lot on here do now.

On another note can someone send me a link so I can make an subjective opinion on the matter myself.
 
Tugay1872 said:
Pushing a narrative? It’s the world we live in mate ffs. If you can’t see that because of our club and it’s traditions, that we are easy pickings for this stuff then I don’t know what else to say.

My original post stated a minority want to live up to the whole WASP thing we’re painted as. How the f**k am I wrong? If you know my OP history you’ll know I’m scathing of other clubs, such as them across the Clyde.

Britain has major issues with its past, as do other countries. Is it unpatriotic to call out, or be unstaunch to criticise aspects you’d disagree with? No it’s not.
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With a support as vast as ours, there will be some with questionable attitudes, even downright ugly ones. That’s inevitable.

The Club can’t do much about that. What we can do is ensure the ugliest of attitudes are not demonstrated within the stadium - and the Club have been proactive in addressing that.

Why give more credence to the small minority than the majority?

And you don’t see a difficulty with bringing Elizabethan attitudes and the complexity of a colonial past into a discussion on football fans?
 
Coda said:
Of course it's debatable. When people are so determined to appear publicly anti-racist, that they don't care what they destroy in the process, regardless of guilt, that's a big problem.
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Being publicly anti-racist is not a problem. Listen to yourself. If someone comes out and claims to have been racially abused and your first response is to believe them and sympathise with them and hope for change, it says far more about you than someone who's first response is to disbelieve it because it paints rangers in a bad light.
 
Blair1310 said:
Being publicly anti-racist is not a problem. Listen to yourself. If someone comes out and claims to have been racially abused and your first response is to believe them and sympathise with them and hope for change, it says far more about you than someone who's first response is to disbelieve it because it paints rangers in a bad light.
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If being militantly anti-racist, at the expense of people who aren't racist, is your modus operandi, then we have a problem.

The fact you work on a basis of guilty until proven innocent, is perverse.
 
Coda said:
If being militantly anti-racist, at the expense of people who aren't racist, is your modus operandi, then we have a problem.

The fact you work on a basis of guilty until proven innocent, is perverse.
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I have a youtube channel. Just been to the co op and there was a chicken shagging a dug. PS I dont have a video of said incident. But need a few more followers, so please share.
 
Coda said:
If being militantly anti-racist, at the expense of people who aren't racist, is your modus operandi, then we have a problem.

The fact you work on a basis of guilty until proven innocent, is perverse.
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I am choosing to believe that the victim of racial abuse is telling the truth therefore it isnt at the expense of people who arent racist.

I work on a basis that if someone in the uk says they were racially abused, they probably were.

And we all make judgements on here about folk being guilty until proven etc. There is a thread about the disgusting treatment of children by celtic boys club and by their club. This hasnt went to court yet though so I look forward to your post telling everyone to stop it because they are innocent until proven guilty.

Me, I will choose to believe the victims.
 
Blair1310 said:
I am choosing to believe that the victim of racial abuse is telling the truth therefore it isnt at the expense of people who arent racist.

I work on a basis that if someone in the uk says they were racially abused, they probably were.

And we all make judgements on here about folk being guilty until proven etc. There is a thread about the disgusting treatment of children by celtic boys club and by their club. This hasnt went to court yet though so I look forward to your post telling everyone to stop it because they are innocent until proven guilty.

Me, I will choose to believe the victims.
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I prefer there to be actual evidence of something happening, before crucifying people. By all means if they're then found guilty, punish them accordingly.

There's literally been people convicted for molesting children at Celtic. Literal evidence.

You're for the watching.
 
He says in the article he only identifies with Rangers because of our black players, and doesn’t go to “live games” at Ibrox because of “elements of racism that occur there” then says he was “doing his usual” and talking to fans round about him. :oops:

Something very strange about this story. Mainly because he’s a journalist, and also sounds like he’s got a serious chip on his shoulder.
 
BrooklynBlue said:
With a support as vast as ours, there will be some with questionable attitudes, even downright ugly ones. That’s inevitable.

The Club can’t do much about that. What we can do is ensure the ugliest of attitudes are not demonstrated within the stadium - and the Club have been proactive in addressing that.

Why give more credence to the small minority than the majority?

And you don’t see a difficulty with bringing Elizabethan attitudes and the complexity of a colonial past into a discussion on football fans?
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Agree with most you said. As for the historical reference it’s to illustrate we’re still living with the aftermath of hundreds of years of dubious moral decisions. And our club being thee British club means yes we get the unfair stereotypes that I’m highlighting mate. It’s not fair but it’s how it’s perceived.
 
Blair1310 said:
If someone comes out and claims to have been racially abused and your first response is to believe them and sympathise with them and hope for change, it says far more about you ....
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Ahem. Cough. Self obsessed, and looking for attention. You're hardly coming up with any arguments AGAINST what I posted? You have basically just said you are morally superior to anyone opposing you on this thread.
 
a_weir said:
%^*& me…

To not believe this guy is not the right starting position. Whether or not its true or whether it constitutes racism isn’t for anyone here to decide.

Trying to deflect from debate with ‘ah well it’s just a few people stop trying to make out it’s the whole club’ is ridiculous. Nobody here has said that it’s any more than the few individuals mentioned in the OP. On the same front, saying ‘ah well there’s racists everywhere’ is not helpful.

For someone to want to come and see Rangers play because of the amount of BAME players we have isn’t racist. Not in any way shape or form. If that’s the thing that gets him interested in Rangers, then great. (It’s entirely different to wanting to see a team because of a lack of black players/them all being white!)

Over the past few years we’ve had a good number of English players. If we’d had someone come to visit us and take an interest for that reason, nobody would bat an eyelid. In the same vein, nobody would have sang, say, the Defoe song at him just because the visiting fan was English (or any other song about an English player).

Racism isn’t about actions, it’s about how people are made to feel.
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Ibrox is probably one of the few grounds in Scotland that English people wouldn’t suffer racism at.
 
Coda said:
I prefer there to be actual evidence of something happening, before crucifying people. By all means if they're then found guilty, punish them accordingly.

There's literally been people convicted for molesting children at Celtic. Literal evidence.

You're for the watching.
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There has, but not linked to the club and proven in court. I have said that doesnt matter to me because i believe the victims in their claims that the club knew. That hasnt been decided in court yet but that doesnt matter to me. It seems to matter to you though given your earlier stance on innocent until guilty. Or is that just when its something that might hard the rep of our club even though its racism?

Its perfectly possible to believe a victim before its been proven. Even to just offer them support.

Its also perfectly possible to want racism as far as possible from our support.
 
Struths Canary said:
Ahem. Cough. Self obsessed, and looking for attention. You're hardly coming up with any arguments AGAINST what I posted? You have basically just said you are morally superior to anyone opposing you on this thread.
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Someone that condemns racism is morally superior to someone who does not. I am not saying that you dont condemn it btw, I am speaking generally.
 
Blair1310 said:
I am choosing to believe that the victim of racial abuse is telling the truth therefore it isnt at the expense of people who arent racist.

I work on a basis that if someone in the uk says they were racially abused, they probably were.

And we all make judgements on here about folk being guilty until proven etc. There is a thread about the disgusting treatment of children by celtic boys club and by their club. This hasnt went to court yet though so I look forward to your post telling everyone to stop it because they are innocent until proven guilty.

Me, I will choose to believe the victims.
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so it’s an article of faith for you? Serious question, if there was no racism anymore would you be happy or sad?
 
Blair1310 said:
Someone that condemns racism is morally superior to someone who does not. I am not saying that you dont condemn it btw, I am speaking generally.
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I'd have a lie down....you're not doing well in the not appearing to be smug, elitist, and someone who knows nothing about what makes our support tick. I don't know you but I cannot say you have handled thread well....you appear (not in person as we cannot know) to WANT this to be true. The 13th page isn't needed....this was done on Page 1. Do we agree?
 
Blair1310 said:
There has, but not linked to the club and proven in court. I have said that doesnt matter to me because i believe the victims in their claims that the club knew. That hasnt been decided in court yet but that doesnt matter to me. It seems to matter to you though given your earlier stance on innocent until guilty. Or is that just when its something that might hard the rep of our club even though its racism?

Its perfectly possible to believe a victim before its been proven. Even to just offer them support.

Its also perfectly possible to want racism as far as possible from our support.
Click to expand...

Your argument is all over the shop here. I'll say it again, since you ignored it the first time. People have literally been convinced regarding child sex offences at Celtic. You denying that to be true, doesn't change it.

What you're promoting is anarchy and mob rules.
 
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