East Lothian journalist 'in tears' after racial abuse at Rangers game

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GarMckin said:
Wilso10 just called me abusive names outside of this thread. I have no evidence for this, have no witness accounts, don’t actually know the person I’m making a complaint about and only think it might have been on FF, and by the time I report it to the press I’ll say it was 30-40 people on FF singing abusive things to me.

I’m sure you would just accept that as fact.
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Dearie me man.
 
Somemightsay said:
The most depressing thing is the small number of people in this thread that have either called him a liar, attempted to say it's not racism or tried to turn it into a media witch-hunt.

This is why racism still exists.

What did you say when this happened to Kamara?
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Kamara where it was blatantly obvious what had happened in front of our eyes? Trying to compare the two situations is absurd.
 
Somemightsay said:
You really are the lowest of the low.

A young girl is sexually abused by a man, but because there was no other witnesses - we should call her a liar and assume it didn't happen?

In fact - lets discredit all abuse and only accept it if a 3rd party reports it, rather than the person who was abused.


Let's just say for a second, this did happen. Should he just be silenced and written off as a liar because a witness didn't come forward to the police? Anyone who has been racially abused deserves the right to come forward and have it investigated without being called a liar. Who's to say that now this has become public knowledge people who were in the stadium or bar do now come forward to verify his claims - much like what has happened with many of the scum like Harvey Weinstein, which never would have happened if someone didn't come forward.

This is how investigations work - someone reports it, people are asked to come forward if they have information, an outcome is decided.
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I’m calling him a liar because he’s not consistent in what he says. That usually indicates lies.

Take your ludicrous example, if someone made an allegation of sexual assault, said it was definitely 2 different people in 2 different places, then when they got interviewed by press who didn’t like those people beforehand, and by that time changed their story to being sexually assualted by 20-30 people of the same group at the second location. Would you believe them?

He also had multiple witnesses with him, who by his own admission didn’t witness it.
 
Craig said:
A guy who has no history with us prior to October last year (going by his social media accounts) and apparently only relates to us due to our diverse range of players - suffers racial abuse in the ground, then a pub - his mates are only aware of it as he told them, they never heard it first hand.

He then runs to the DR with his story. The very same paper that Heart and Hand destroyed by outing their racist and bigotted journalists.

Coincidence much?

CynicalLoyalRSC.
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The very target of the Everyone Anyone initiative. Chronic stuff. its 2022 ffs.
 
Tim Hunter said:
He has made allegations of criminal offences. A criminal court is where this should be resolved
It is up to the accuser to prove guilt.
The accused does not have to prove his innocence.

Innocent until proved guilty.
Unless of course you are a Rangers supporter.
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It should only be resolved in a criminal court if that is where the accuser wishes to resolve it. Having probably encountered this stuff all his life I suspect that would be a tiresome endeavour.

Plus in relation to your last sentence, this isn’t an attack on the Rangers support, it is highlighting the behaviour of a small minority of idiots. The way the Rangers support as a collective responds is how we should be measured. Our default response shouldn’t be one of denial.

Like I have said previously, if it should come to light that the story has been fabricated then the man should rightly be criticised, but it also shouldn’t change how we should respond to allegations in the first place.
 
Stubo said:
It's how the law works. You need evidence for a conviction.

How many times have people posted on here when they see an incident in or around the stadium. I'm sure if this happened someone will be along soon to confirm it. Until then I'm not going to vilify our support.
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Ok then. An extreme example too see if you stick to that belief.

Your partner gets sexually assaulted. Do you believe her or say ‘I’ll need to await for the outcome of the investigation before I decide if I believe you’.
 
GarMckin said:
I’m calling him a liar because he’s not consistent in what he says. That usually indicates lies.

Take your ludicrous example, if someone made an allegation of sexual assault, said it was definitely 2 different people in 2 different places, then when they got interviewed by press who didn’t like those people beforehand, and by that time changed their story to being sexually assualted by 20-30 people of the same group at the second location. Would you believe them?

He also had multiple witnesses with him, who by his own admission didn’t witness it.
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I am blown away so many have just accepted this is fact. Its a couple of rungs up the ladder from the williewanker video.
 
Somemightsay said:
You really are the lowest of the low.

A young girl is sexually abused by a man, but because there was no other witnesses - we should call her a liar and assume it didn't happen?

In fact - lets discredit all abuse and only accept it if a 3rd party reports it, rather than the person who was abused.


Let's just say for a second, this did happen. Should he just be silenced and written off as a liar because a witness didn't come forward to the police? Anyone who has been racially abused deserves the right to come forward and have it investigated without being called a liar. Who's to say that now this has become public knowledge people who were in the stadium or bar do now come forward to verify his claims - much like what has happened with many of the scum like Harvey Weinstein, which never would have happened if someone didn't come forward.

This is how investigations work - someone reports it, people are asked to come forward if they have information, an outcome is decided.
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In this instance, however, unlike the theoretical sexual abuse example that you mention, there were other witnesses. There was a stadium full of potential witnesses, a bar full of potential witnesses and, as far as I am aware, two of his own mates in attendance.

And yes his claims should be investigated and any guilty parties duly punished for any crimes committed. That, as you say, is how these things work but at the very heart of the process in terms of criminal procedures is the theory of "innocent until proven guilty". That doesn't mean calling the accuser a liar, as you suggest, or assuming that it didn't happen it simply ensures that due process can proceed without prejudice.
 
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RaskolnikovBear said:
People seen the Kamara incident mate.
My bloods boiling at that. You seriously comparing the two?
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Only comparing the 2 in terms of allegations of racist abuse and how the majority (rightly) are boiling at Kudela as he appears to be guilty, despite denial yet a proportion on this thread are dismissing what this guy is saying out of hand. As if one or 2 individuals couldn't possibly have acted the lady's front bottom with this guy....

Anyway, if he makes a complaint to the law it'll all unravel one way or another.
 
GR6Ger said:
Ok then. An extreme example too see if you stick to that belief.

Your partner gets sexually assaulted. Do you believe her or say ‘I’ll need to await for the outcome of the investigation before I decide if I believe you’.
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You most likely believe her.

If it was two strangers, i'd wait to see the evidence.

The legal system in this country works on a basis of innocent until proven guilty. That's how a civilised society functions.
 
This thread has turned into a total point scoring mess. Some amount of new members contributing to this thread though. Bottom line is, the club needs to look into this as does TWRC. The guy should get full support over this issue, I can't see why anyone would lie about such a sensitive and contentious subject and put their reputation on the line.
 
blujay said:
This place is honestly a disgrace and a complete embarrassment.

Three guesses what colour of skin can of aw have that are asking what proof there is. You have no idea what life can still he like for people of colour and how unwelcoming the football environment can be.
Maybe we just listen to people of colour and learn about their experiences. Maybe that might just help.

Have a word with yourselves.

Nice to see so many sound folk on here calling this out for what it is.

This collective voice needs to be louder in our support.

Everyone anyone, let’s actually mean it and live it.
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Tell you what mate. Show us a post which has been racist. I'll save you the time, there are none.

What you are saying is that in a free society, people have no right to question the story. Put up or shut up in your world.

Well here's one, I think your a tim on here stirring it up. You may not be, but by your rules I reserve the right to accept that as the truth, just because I say so.
 
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siegeheroes13 said:
Another racial claim being made against our fans

www.edinburghlive.co.uk

East Lothian journalist 'in tears' after racial abuse at Rangers game and pub

Bobby Nwanze, 32, is a Rangers man but was left in floods of tears after being racially abused in Ibrox as well as in a local Rangers supporters bar.
www.edinburghlive.co.uk www.edinburghlive.co.uk

A freelance sport producer from East Lothian says he was racially abused on two occasions over the space of a few hours after attending a Rangers football game.

Bobby Nwanze, 32, said that he was forced to leave a Rangers Scottish Cup match vs Stirling Albion at half time on Friday January 21, after he faced abuse from a fellow supporter in the stands.

READ MORE - Hearts manager Robbie Neilson targeted by 'seething football fan' during TV interview

To make matters worse, Bobby was subjected to a further bout of abuse when visiting a Rangers themed bar close to the stadium.

Speaking to Edinburgh Live, Bobby said that he was left in tears in the car when returning from Glasgow, and that the incident had put him off from returning to Ibrox but that he would do so, as he did not want to empower racists.

On the abuse he received, he said: “Why I like Rangers is that the team is relatable to me. In the past the squad was not overly diverse but when you look at the team now that has completely changed. The captain Tavernier is black as is Bassey, Balogun, Aribo, Morelos, Sakala, Bacuna and Kamara. So for me I identify with them.


“To be honest, I am often apprehensive about going to live games due to the elements of racism that can occur there. But my friend Abie, John and I decided to go through for the Scottish Cup tie as we thought it would be a nice family friendly atmosphere with it being the fourth round of the cup.

“Around 25 minutes into the game, I’m doing my usual and talking football with fans around me, having a good time. But then I see an older man waving his arms at me, he looks at me and says ‘I can’t understand a word you are saying, are you even speaking English?’

“I turned to my friends and asked if he had just said what I thought he had. After that I just felt sick and my mood completely dropped. My friends said to try to ignore him but I could not.

“So we left to go to a Rangers bar, I think it was called the Wee Rangers, and when we walked in it was as if everyone had stopped to stare at me walking to the bar - it was weird. We ordered some drinks and just took ourselves to a quiet corner to watch the rest of the game. That is when a middle aged man approached me.

“This gentleman would not leave me alone. He said ‘You are black, what does Fashion Sakala mean?’ My friend asked what he said and when I repeated it they were absolutely astounded. The man proceeded to keep calling me Fashion Sakala even though I asked him to leave me alone to watch the game.

“My friends then tried their best to get them to leave me alone but then the man turned with their group of 20-30 mates and started singing the Fashion Sakala song at me. Now I do not mind banter but my race is not a joke for other people’s amusement. This was being derogative.

“The guy then sat next to me again and started to touch my arms whilst saying, ‘You’re a big boy eh, you're always big.’ He continued to bother me before I was stern and said to leave me alone. It was then that the man said I shouldn’t be there.
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ScottyRFC1872 said:
Societal problem not a Rangers one
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That's taking an easy way out? Yes racism is a societal issue, but that doesn't mean the club should tolerate it in our stadium. All bears together and all that?
 
We certain this stuff even happened? Wouldn’t be surprised either way tbh.

As for identifying with Rangers because they have black players - what? Every team has black players - don’t they? Surely he’s a Rangers fan not a black players fan!
 
GR6Ger said:
Ok then. An extreme example too see if you stick to that belief.

Your partner gets sexually assaulted. Do you believe her or say ‘I’ll need to await for the outcome of the investigation before I decide if I believe you’.
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it’s not an extreme example it’s just a terrible one.

a better example would be a random guy who wants to be a journalist sells a story to the papers with a slightly unclear allegation of maybe racism. Do you believe him?

The answer should be “i have no way of knowing if that’s true but i hope not and if there’s evidence then he should probably go to the police”
 
Jack Burton said:
He’s speaking as a black man in a predominantly white country
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So a white person in a majority black conutry saying they’ll support a team because they have the most white players would be fine in modern society?

I genuinely doubt that. I’m not some closet racist here, you can look at my post history I’ve called others out for racism and offensive stuff in the past. You’re living in a dreamland if you think a white person saying that in any country would be acceptable to the likes of the BBC.
 
Barryhopez said:
Only comparing the 2 in terms of allegations of racist abuse and how the majority (rightly) are boiling at Kudela as he appears to be guilty, despite denial yet a proportion on this thread are dismissing what this guy is saying out of hand. As if one or 2 individuals couldn't possibly have acted the lady's front bottom with this guy....

Anyway, if he makes a complaint to the law it'll all unravel one way or another.
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I hope he does complain to Police Scotland. Far too many of these accusations are never answered. To me, there has been a concerted effort for years now to condition people to think, Rangers means racist. It needs challenged.
 
Coda said:
Not sure why he's being painted as a big Rangers fan, when the videos above quite clearly show he's not. Almost as if there's an agenda against Rangers at play here. Who'd have thunk it. And just like the last incident like this, that quickly disappeared once it was debunked, folk are falling for it hook, line and sinker.

Intentionally divisive reporting, with no evidence whatsoever, and the assumption is once again that Rangers fans are all knuckle dragging racists. All evidence of our fans general behaviour has been on the absolute contrary. I've heard plenty of things shouted or sung at Ibrox, racism has never been one of them, and it's even less imaginable now, with a team that at times is predominantly black.

If your position is to start with the idea that Rangers fans are guilty, and then you work your way back to prove it, then you're part of a very different problem we have at the club. Anyone on here that genuinely believes there's a problem with racism at Ibrox, has quite clearly never been to the place.
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I agree with you. I also find it baffling that he said he was there with his mate but, neither ,thought about calling out this guy he says was racist towards him or walking over to a copper or steward and reporting this guy he said was racist to him inside the stadium.
 
GarMckin said:
So a white person in a majority black conutry saying they’ll support a team because they have the most white players would be fine in modern society?

I genuinely doubt that. I’m not some closet racist here, you can look at my post history I’ve called others out for racism and offensive stuff in the past. You’re living in a dreamland if you think a white person saying that in any country would be acceptable to the likes of the BBC.
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Let's look at it from a different point of view:

You (or the person in question) move to China (this guy to Scotland). You start following a team because it has a lot of Europeans in it (he, Africans).

I don't think that sounds racist for either of you?
 
TheMish said:
How, as things stand and with the information available can anyone help make the situation better?
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By not branding the man a liar just because some have a hunch or are not willing to accept a bit of bad press. His account should be taken at face value until proved otherwise. There’s nothing in his account that suggests it’s a lie, the only thing people are affronted by is that it’s a bad story that involves Rangers. They want it to be a falsehood so call bullshit.

Like I say, it might be and I would be as angry as the next guy if it is. But the fact some people’s default position is deny and deflect is disappointing. If people think it’s a lie, then quietly contact the Wee Rangers Club and ask them to review their CCTV and expose the man, rather than calling bullshit on what could very well be a genuine incidence of racism which has been committed by people who should be nowhere near our club.
 
OnTheShouldersofGiants said:
By not branding the man a liar just because some have a hunch or are not willing to accept a bit of bad press. His account should be taken at face value until proved otherwise. There’s nothing in his account that suggests it’s a lie, the only thing people are affronted by is that it’s a bad story that involves Rangers. They want it to be a falsehood so call bullshit.

Like I say, it might be and I would be as angry as the next guy if it is. But the fact some people’s default position is deny and deflect is disappointing. If people think it’s a lie, then quietly contact the Wee Rangers Club and ask them to review their CCTV and expose the man, rather than calling bullshit on what could very well be a genuine incidence of racism which has been committed by people who should be nowhere near our club.
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Is it even there it took place?
 
RaskolnikovBear said:
I hope he does complain to Police Scotland. Far too many of these accusations are never answered. To me, there has been a concerted effort for years now to condition people to think, Rangers means racist. It needs challenged.
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When there are stories like this, the kyogo stuff etc it hardly helps us dispel that reputation (i know this is a tiny minority but sometimes they shout the loudest and that is where the reputation comes from).

I mean, there were people complaining that the kyogo singers were banned from Ibrox ffs. Again, hardly doing much to dispel the reputation.
 
captcaveman said:
I agree with you. I also find it baffling that he said he was there with his mate but, neither ,thought about calling out this guy he says was racist towards him or walking over to a copper or steward and reporting this guy he said was racist to him inside the stadium.
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Easier said than done. Everyone with a season ticket will have whitenessed someone be outrageous, sectarian etc at a game before. Very, very rarely is it reported. People find it intimidating or put their head in the sand. It shouldn’t happen but its the way it is so its totally realistic that they didn’t report it.
 
captcaveman said:
I agree with you. I also find it baffling that he said he was there with his mate but, neither ,thought about calling out this guy he says was racist towards him or walking over to a copper or steward and reporting this guy he said was racist to him inside the stadium.
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And in fact 'his mate' didn't even witness it let alone report it.
 
blujay said:
This place is honestly a disgrace and a complete embarrassment.

Three guesses what colour of skin can of aw have that are asking what proof there is. You have no idea what life can still he like for people of colour and how unwelcoming the football environment can be.
Maybe we just listen to people of colour and learn about their experiences. Maybe that might just help.

Have a word with yourselves.

Nice to see so many sound folk on here calling this out for what it is.

This collective voice needs to be louder in our support.

Everyone anyone, let’s actually mean it and live it.
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It's always the same folk as well. Constantly showing themselves up in various threads.

The irony is the club want nothing to do with these folk.
 
1288Bear said:
In this instance, however, unlike the theoretical sexual abuse example that you mention, there were other witnesses. There was a stadium full of potential witnesses, a bar full of potential witnesses and, as far as I am aware, two of his own mates in attendance.

And yes his claims should be investigated and any guilty parties duly punished for any crimes committed. That, as you say, is how these things work but at the very heart of the process in terms of criminal procedures is the theory of "innocent until proven guilty". That doesn't mean calling the accuser a liar, as you suggest, or assuming that it didn't happen it simply ensures that due process can proceed without prejudice.
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I agree. My comments are directed at the individuals calling him a liar based on a newspaper article, without any process having taken place.
 
Murray the Bear said:
Maybe some of us 'palefaces' need to try living in a different colour skin for a while, see how it changes our often too comfortable worldview on race. I recall a documentary from years back when a reporter did exactly that and the results were shocking, the immediate shift in attitudes of people around him when travelling on public transport for example. Racism needs calling out at every opportunity.
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The point I have made is that I don't think the first point the guy has made is racial abuse. It's not exactly nice, but it's not racism. EDIT: This is the point about the guy questioning if he was speaking English, not the WRC incident.
People are doing some amount of mental gymnastics to try and rip the poster GarMcKin, and yet he's consistently put up valid arguments which nobody can really shoot down.
I don't have a racist bone in my body, and will call it out any time I see it.
However, trying to find racism where there isn't any, is one fucking strange thing to do. Almost like people have an agenda.
Whether that is to appear fair or even handed, or to have a go at Rangers and our fans, I don't know.
I'd like to know what the thoughts are on the reporter and quite how he managed to change his skin colour. Quite sure we would have people calling him racist for doing so as well.
As for myself, I lived in Missouri years ago, in what was a predominantly black area. I had a few uncomfortable experiences, most likely as I was a young guy on my own and white. It was probably racism as well. Fortunately I have survived to tell the tale.
 
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Struths Canary said:
It is interesting that the same old faces are now doubling down rather than admit they've been played.

I can't begin to guess why but it is probably a weakness within them.
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The irony within this post :)

There's people on this thread saying they know the guy, he's a fellow bear and a good guy.

Cannot see why he'd make this up, and not one of us who go to watch Rangers regularly have not seen or heard some completely unacceptable behavior. 50K go to Ibrox, we have a predominantly well behaved and brilliant support, but let's not pretend that we don't have a few ignorant, bigotted and no doubt racist fans in our midst, like everyone else.
 
Bear_Bones said:
The irony within this post :)

There's people on this thread saying they know the guy, he's a fellow bear and a good guy.

Cannot see why he'd make this up, and not one of us who go to watch Rangers regularly have not seen or heard some completely unacceptable behavior. 50K go to Ibrox, we have a predominantly well behaved and brilliant support, but let's not pretend that we don't have a few ignorant, bigotted and no doubt racist fans in our midst, like everyone else.
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Anyone saying they know him and he's a bear, are at it. Regardless of anything else, his youtube has outed him. He's a football vlogger with no genuine affiliation to us.
 
Bear_Bones said:
The irony within this post :)

There's people on this thread saying they know the guy, he's a fellow bear and a good guy.

Cannot see why he'd make this up, and not one of us who go to watch Rangers regularly have not seen or heard some completely unacceptable behavior. 50K go to Ibrox, we have a predominantly well behaved and brilliant support, but let's not pretend that we don't have a few ignorant, bigotted and no doubt racist fans in our midst, like everyone else.
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His first mention or interaction of any kind as regards Rangers was Oct 2021.
His 'pals' didn't witness it.
No witnesses came forward.
He changed story between tweet and running to the enemy of all bears: The Daily Rebel

And you honestly don't accept some people might have doubts?
 
a_weir said:
Let's look at it from a different point of view:

You (or the person in question) move to China (this guy to Scotland). You start following a team because it has a lot of Europeans in it (he, Africans).

I don't think that sounds racist for either of you?
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Said this already but it’s not nationality, that has nothing to do with what he said.He actually could have said something similar, he describes himself as a ‘Nigerian Scot’. Nigerian’s are the 3rd highest represented nationality in our team.

He didn’t though, it was specifically to do with race. The only counter example is using race. If someone said in China that they were supporting a team because they were white, many people would see that as racist.

It’s a strange thing to come out with when accusing others of racism. My guess is the interviewer has asked something like ‘why do you support Rangers if they are a racist club?’ Then he gives this answer, instead of arguing back that they’re not, because that wouldn’t fit the narrative of why he’s getting interviewed in the first place.

Add to that, that from the time he tweeted about it to that interview going to print he added 20-30 other fans who racially abused him. Then I think it’s clearly a hit piece.

This is a guy who’s trying to build a media career on the back of racism, that’s specifically why in the very next paragraph after describing what happens he goes on to talk about wanting a media career so black people are better represented, and the article basically lists his media CV.
 
GarMckin said:
Said this already but it’s not nationality, that has nothing to do with what he said.He actually could have said something similar, he describes himself as a ‘Nigerian Scot’. Nigerian’s are the 3rd highest represented nationality in our team.

He didn’t though, it was specifically to do with race. The only counter example is using race. If someone said in China that they were supporting a team because they were white, many people would see that as racist.

It’s a strange thing to come out with when accusing others of racism. My guess is the interviewer has asked something like ‘why do you support Rangers if they are a racist club?’ Then he gives this answer, instead of arguing back that they’re not, because that wouldn’t fit the narrative of why he’s getting interviewed in the first place.

Add to that, that from the time he tweeted about it to that interview going to print he added 20-30 other fans who racially abused him. Then I think it’s clearly a hit piece.

This is a guy who’s trying to build a media career on the back of racism, that’s specifically why in the very next paragraph after describing what happens he goes on to talk about wanting a media career so black people are better represented, and the article basically lists his media CV.
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I'm convinced. He's a lying racist.
 
Knightswoodbear said:
This thread has turned into a total point scoring mess. Some amount of new members contributing to this thread though. Bottom line is, the club needs to look into this as does TWRC. The guy should get full support over this issue, I can't see why anyone would lie about such a sensitive and contentious subject and put their reputation on the line.
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Paul Elliot categorically stated that he had bananas thrown at him at Ibrox... why should we doubt him ?
 
Some posters on here are desperate for this to be true. Accusations of racism are thrown about like confetti these days which deminishes the real cases. Is there anything the club or police can do to someone for saying they dont understand a person? If so then what is the world coming to. The guy has a very thick Edinburgh accent and without looking at him you wouldnt know the colour of his skin. The more i read about it the more i think somethings not right and when did articles in the DR become accurate. Every single one of us abhore racism lets just wait and see before dragging our club and fans through the mud we have plenty enemies doing it already. The only person in this whole story who mentioned skin colour is him calling his mate “my little fairskin brother” in one of his vlogs
 
GarMckin said:
So a white person in a majority black conutry saying they’ll support a team because they have the most white players would be fine in modern society?

I genuinely doubt that. I’m not some closet racist here, you can look at my post history I’ve called others out for racism and offensive stuff in the past. You’re living in a dreamland if you think a white person saying that in any country would be acceptable to the likes of the BBC.
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I can’t answer that question as I have zero evidence to draw comparisons.
 
Its really really sad and depressing. Seems as if a minority are committed to our club being the quintessential WASP (white Anglo Saxon Protestant club) that the media want to tar us with, rather than the multicultural one we are now. Wee angry bald men with red faces.

There is an element, and while it does happen at other clubs, that’s just whatabouttery on our part. If you see it call it, self-policing is the only way now. The club have screamed about it till the cows have came home.

The people who get targeted were up until a few decades ago more likely to be as much a British subject as you and I are. Hence all the colonies celebrated Empire Day a century ago, hundreds of millions of the Queens subjects.
 
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