Is the Limmy character black?He's got an Edinburgh accent.
Is that Limmy character racist?
Wilso10 just called me abusive names outside of this thread. I have no evidence for this, have no witness accounts, don’t actually know the person I’m making a complaint about and only think it might have been on FF, and by the time I report it to the press I’ll say it was 30-40 people on FF singing abusive things to me.
I’m sure you would just accept that as fact.
The most depressing thing is the small number of people in this thread that have either called him a liar, attempted to say it's not racism or tried to turn it into a media witch-hunt.
This is why racism still exists.
What did you say when this happened to Kamara?
I’m calling him a liar because he’s not consistent in what he says. That usually indicates lies.You really are the lowest of the low.
A young girl is sexually abused by a man, but because there was no other witnesses - we should call her a liar and assume it didn't happen?
In fact - lets discredit all abuse and only accept it if a 3rd party reports it, rather than the person who was abused.
Let's just say for a second, this did happen. Should he just be silenced and written off as a liar because a witness didn't come forward to the police? Anyone who has been racially abused deserves the right to come forward and have it investigated without being called a liar. Who's to say that now this has become public knowledge people who were in the stadium or bar do now come forward to verify his claims - much like what has happened with many of the scum like Harvey Weinstein, which never would have happened if someone didn't come forward.
This is how investigations work - someone reports it, people are asked to come forward if they have information, an outcome is decided.
The very target of the Everyone Anyone initiative. Chronic stuff. its 2022 ffs.A guy who has no history with us prior to October last year (going by his social media accounts) and apparently only relates to us due to our diverse range of players - suffers racial abuse in the ground, then a pub - his mates are only aware of it as he told them, they never heard it first hand.
He then runs to the DR with his story. The very same paper that Heart and Hand destroyed by outing their racist and bigotted journalists.
Coincidence much?
CynicalLoyalRSC.
It should only be resolved in a criminal court if that is where the accuser wishes to resolve it. Having probably encountered this stuff all his life I suspect that would be a tiresome endeavour.He has made allegations of criminal offences. A criminal court is where this should be resolved
It is up to the accuser to prove guilt.
The accused does not have to prove his innocence.
Innocent until proved guilty.
Unless of course you are a Rangers supporter.
Ok then. An extreme example too see if you stick to that belief.It's how the law works. You need evidence for a conviction.
How many times have people posted on here when they see an incident in or around the stadium. I'm sure if this happened someone will be along soon to confirm it. Until then I'm not going to vilify our support.
I am blown away so many have just accepted this is fact. Its a couple of rungs up the ladder from the williewanker video.I’m calling him a liar because he’s not consistent in what he says. That usually indicates lies.
Take your ludicrous example, if someone made an allegation of sexual assault, said it was definitely 2 different people in 2 different places, then when they got interviewed by press who didn’t like those people beforehand, and by that time changed their story to being sexually assualted by 20-30 people of the same group at the second location. Would you believe them?
He also had multiple witnesses with him, who by his own admission didn’t witness it.
So we left to go to a Rangers bar, I think it was called the Wee Rangers
In this instance, however, unlike the theoretical sexual abuse example that you mention, there were other witnesses. There was a stadium full of potential witnesses, a bar full of potential witnesses and, as far as I am aware, two of his own mates in attendance.You really are the lowest of the low.
A young girl is sexually abused by a man, but because there was no other witnesses - we should call her a liar and assume it didn't happen?
In fact - lets discredit all abuse and only accept it if a 3rd party reports it, rather than the person who was abused.
Let's just say for a second, this did happen. Should he just be silenced and written off as a liar because a witness didn't come forward to the police? Anyone who has been racially abused deserves the right to come forward and have it investigated without being called a liar. Who's to say that now this has become public knowledge people who were in the stadium or bar do now come forward to verify his claims - much like what has happened with many of the scum like Harvey Weinstein, which never would have happened if someone didn't come forward.
This is how investigations work - someone reports it, people are asked to come forward if they have information, an outcome is decided.
Only comparing the 2 in terms of allegations of racist abuse and how the majority (rightly) are boiling at Kudela as he appears to be guilty, despite denial yet a proportion on this thread are dismissing what this guy is saying out of hand. As if one or 2 individuals couldn't possibly have acted the lady's front bottom with this guy....People seen the Kamara incident mate.
My bloods boiling at that. You seriously comparing the two?
also shouldn’t change how we should respond to allegations in the first place.
Ok then. An extreme example too see if you stick to that belief.
Your partner gets sexually assaulted. Do you believe her or say ‘I’ll need to await for the outcome of the investigation before I decide if I believe you’.
Tell you what mate. Show us a post which has been racist. I'll save you the time, there are none.This place is honestly a disgrace and a complete embarrassment.
Three guesses what colour of skin can of aw have that are asking what proof there is. You have no idea what life can still he like for people of colour and how unwelcoming the football environment can be.
Maybe we just listen to people of colour and learn about their experiences. Maybe that might just help.
Have a word with yourselves.
Nice to see so many sound folk on here calling this out for what it is.
This collective voice needs to be louder in our support.
Everyone anyone, let’s actually mean it and live it.
Another racial claim being made against our fans
East Lothian journalist 'in tears' after racial abuse at Rangers game and pub
Bobby Nwanze, 32, is a Rangers man but was left in floods of tears after being racially abused in Ibrox as well as in a local Rangers supporters bar.www.edinburghlive.co.uk
A freelance sport producer from East Lothian says he was racially abused on two occasions over the space of a few hours after attending a Rangers football game.
Bobby Nwanze, 32, said that he was forced to leave a Rangers Scottish Cup match vs Stirling Albion at half time on Friday January 21, after he faced abuse from a fellow supporter in the stands.
READ MORE - Hearts manager Robbie Neilson targeted by 'seething football fan' during TV interview
To make matters worse, Bobby was subjected to a further bout of abuse when visiting a Rangers themed bar close to the stadium.
Speaking to Edinburgh Live, Bobby said that he was left in tears in the car when returning from Glasgow, and that the incident had put him off from returning to Ibrox but that he would do so, as he did not want to empower racists.
On the abuse he received, he said: “Why I like Rangers is that the team is relatable to me. In the past the squad was not overly diverse but when you look at the team now that has completely changed. The captain Tavernier is black as is Bassey, Balogun, Aribo, Morelos, Sakala, Bacuna and Kamara. So for me I identify with them.
“To be honest, I am often apprehensive about going to live games due to the elements of racism that can occur there. But my friend Abie, John and I decided to go through for the Scottish Cup tie as we thought it would be a nice family friendly atmosphere with it being the fourth round of the cup.
“Around 25 minutes into the game, I’m doing my usual and talking football with fans around me, having a good time. But then I see an older man waving his arms at me, he looks at me and says ‘I can’t understand a word you are saying, are you even speaking English?’
“I turned to my friends and asked if he had just said what I thought he had. After that I just felt sick and my mood completely dropped. My friends said to try to ignore him but I could not.
“So we left to go to a Rangers bar, I think it was called the Wee Rangers, and when we walked in it was as if everyone had stopped to stare at me walking to the bar - it was weird. We ordered some drinks and just took ourselves to a quiet corner to watch the rest of the game. That is when a middle aged man approached me.
“This gentleman would not leave me alone. He said ‘You are black, what does Fashion Sakala mean?’ My friend asked what he said and when I repeated it they were absolutely astounded. The man proceeded to keep calling me Fashion Sakala even though I asked him to leave me alone to watch the game.
“My friends then tried their best to get them to leave me alone but then the man turned with their group of 20-30 mates and started singing the Fashion Sakala song at me. Now I do not mind banter but my race is not a joke for other people’s amusement. This was being derogative.
“The guy then sat next to me again and started to touch my arms whilst saying, ‘You’re a big boy eh, you're always big.’ He continued to bother me before I was stern and said to leave me alone. It was then that the man said I shouldn’t be there.
That's taking an easy way out? Yes racism is a societal issue, but that doesn't mean the club should tolerate it in our stadium. All bears together and all that?Societal problem not a Rangers one
it’s not an extreme example it’s just a terrible one.Ok then. An extreme example too see if you stick to that belief.
Your partner gets sexually assaulted. Do you believe her or say ‘I’ll need to await for the outcome of the investigation before I decide if I believe you’.
He’s speaking as a black man in a predominantly white country
I hope he does complain to Police Scotland. Far too many of these accusations are never answered. To me, there has been a concerted effort for years now to condition people to think, Rangers means racist. It needs challenged.Only comparing the 2 in terms of allegations of racist abuse and how the majority (rightly) are boiling at Kudela as he appears to be guilty, despite denial yet a proportion on this thread are dismissing what this guy is saying out of hand. As if one or 2 individuals couldn't possibly have acted the lady's front bottom with this guy....
Anyway, if he makes a complaint to the law it'll all unravel one way or another.
I agree with you. I also find it baffling that he said he was there with his mate but, neither ,thought about calling out this guy he says was racist towards him or walking over to a copper or steward and reporting this guy he said was racist to him inside the stadium.Not sure why he's being painted as a big Rangers fan, when the videos above quite clearly show he's not. Almost as if there's an agenda against Rangers at play here. Who'd have thunk it. And just like the last incident like this, that quickly disappeared once it was debunked, folk are falling for it hook, line and sinker.
Intentionally divisive reporting, with no evidence whatsoever, and the assumption is once again that Rangers fans are all knuckle dragging racists. All evidence of our fans general behaviour has been on the absolute contrary. I've heard plenty of things shouted or sung at Ibrox, racism has never been one of them, and it's even less imaginable now, with a team that at times is predominantly black.
If your position is to start with the idea that Rangers fans are guilty, and then you work your way back to prove it, then you're part of a very different problem we have at the club. Anyone on here that genuinely believes there's a problem with racism at Ibrox, has quite clearly never been to the place.
So a white person in a majority black conutry saying they’ll support a team because they have the most white players would be fine in modern society?
I genuinely doubt that. I’m not some closet racist here, you can look at my post history I’ve called others out for racism and offensive stuff in the past. You’re living in a dreamland if you think a white person saying that in any country would be acceptable to the likes of the BBC.
By not branding the man a liar just because some have a hunch or are not willing to accept a bit of bad press. His account should be taken at face value until proved otherwise. There’s nothing in his account that suggests it’s a lie, the only thing people are affronted by is that it’s a bad story that involves Rangers. They want it to be a falsehood so call bullshit.How, as things stand and with the information available can anyone help make the situation better?
Is it even there it took place?By not branding the man a liar just because some have a hunch or are not willing to accept a bit of bad press. His account should be taken at face value until proved otherwise. There’s nothing in his account that suggests it’s a lie, the only thing people are affronted by is that it’s a bad story that involves Rangers. They want it to be a falsehood so call bullshit.
Like I say, it might be and I would be as angry as the next guy if it is. But the fact some people’s default position is deny and deflect is disappointing. If people think it’s a lie, then quietly contact the Wee Rangers Club and ask them to review their CCTV and expose the man, rather than calling bullshit on what could very well be a genuine incidence of racism which has been committed by people who should be nowhere near our club.
When there are stories like this, the kyogo stuff etc it hardly helps us dispel that reputation (i know this is a tiny minority but sometimes they shout the loudest and that is where the reputation comes from).I hope he does complain to Police Scotland. Far too many of these accusations are never answered. To me, there has been a concerted effort for years now to condition people to think, Rangers means racist. It needs challenged.
Easier said than done. Everyone with a season ticket will have whitenessed someone be outrageous, sectarian etc at a game before. Very, very rarely is it reported. People find it intimidating or put their head in the sand. It shouldn’t happen but its the way it is so its totally realistic that they didn’t report it.I agree with you. I also find it baffling that he said he was there with his mate but, neither ,thought about calling out this guy he says was racist towards him or walking over to a copper or steward and reporting this guy he said was racist to him inside the stadium.
And in fact 'his mate' didn't even witness it let alone report it.I agree with you. I also find it baffling that he said he was there with his mate but, neither ,thought about calling out this guy he says was racist towards him or walking over to a copper or steward and reporting this guy he said was racist to him inside the stadium.
Easier said than done. Everyone with a season ticket will have witnessed someone be sectarian etc at a game before. Very, very rarely is it reported.
It's always the same folk as well. Constantly showing themselves up in various threads.This place is honestly a disgrace and a complete embarrassment.
Three guesses what colour of skin can of aw have that are asking what proof there is. You have no idea what life can still he like for people of colour and how unwelcoming the football environment can be.
Maybe we just listen to people of colour and learn about their experiences. Maybe that might just help.
Have a word with yourselves.
Nice to see so many sound folk on here calling this out for what it is.
This collective voice needs to be louder in our support.
Everyone anyone, let’s actually mean it and live it.
In this instance, however, unlike the theoretical sexual abuse example that you mention, there were other witnesses. There was a stadium full of potential witnesses, a bar full of potential witnesses and, as far as I am aware, two of his own mates in attendance.
And yes his claims should be investigated and any guilty parties duly punished for any crimes committed. That, as you say, is how these things work but at the very heart of the process in terms of criminal procedures is the theory of "innocent until proven guilty". That doesn't mean calling the accuser a liar, as you suggest, or assuming that it didn't happen it simply ensures that due process can proceed without prejudice.
The point I have made is that I don't think the first point the guy has made is racial abuse. It's not exactly nice, but it's not racism. EDIT: This is the point about the guy questioning if he was speaking English, not the WRC incident.Maybe some of us 'palefaces' need to try living in a different colour skin for a while, see how it changes our often too comfortable worldview on race. I recall a documentary from years back when a reporter did exactly that and the results were shocking, the immediate shift in attitudes of people around him when travelling on public transport for example. Racism needs calling out at every opportunity.
It is interesting that the same old faces are now doubling down rather than admit they've been played.
I can't begin to guess why but it is probably a weakness within them.
The irony within this post
There's people on this thread saying they know the guy, he's a fellow bear and a good guy.
Cannot see why he'd make this up, and not one of us who go to watch Rangers regularly have not seen or heard some completely unacceptable behavior. 50K go to Ibrox, we have a predominantly well behaved and brilliant support, but let's not pretend that we don't have a few ignorant, bigotted and no doubt racist fans in our midst, like everyone else.
His first mention or interaction of any kind as regards Rangers was Oct 2021.The irony within this post
There's people on this thread saying they know the guy, he's a fellow bear and a good guy.
Cannot see why he'd make this up, and not one of us who go to watch Rangers regularly have not seen or heard some completely unacceptable behavior. 50K go to Ibrox, we have a predominantly well behaved and brilliant support, but let's not pretend that we don't have a few ignorant, bigotted and no doubt racist fans in our midst, like everyone else.
Let's look at it from a different point of view:
You (or the person in question) move to China (this guy to Scotland). You start following a team because it has a lot of Europeans in it (he, Africans).
I don't think that sounds racist for either of you?
Said this already but it’s not nationality, that has nothing to do with what he said.He actually could have said something similar, he describes himself as a ‘Nigerian Scot’. Nigerian’s are the 3rd highest represented nationality in our team.
He didn’t though, it was specifically to do with race. The only counter example is using race. If someone said in China that they were supporting a team because they were white, many people would see that as racist.
It’s a strange thing to come out with when accusing others of racism. My guess is the interviewer has asked something like ‘why do you support Rangers if they are a racist club?’ Then he gives this answer, instead of arguing back that they’re not, because that wouldn’t fit the narrative of why he’s getting interviewed in the first place.
Add to that, that from the time he tweeted about it to that interview going to print he added 20-30 other fans who racially abused him. Then I think it’s clearly a hit piece.
This is a guy who’s trying to build a media career on the back of racism, that’s specifically why in the very next paragraph after describing what happens he goes on to talk about wanting a media career so black people are better represented, and the article basically lists his media CV.
Paul Elliot categorically stated that he had bananas thrown at him at Ibrox... why should we doubt him ?This thread has turned into a total point scoring mess. Some amount of new members contributing to this thread though. Bottom line is, the club needs to look into this as does TWRC. The guy should get full support over this issue, I can't see why anyone would lie about such a sensitive and contentious subject and put their reputation on the line.
The legendary 2-2 draw where he scored a late equaliser...Paul Elliot categorically stated that he had bananas thrown at him at Ibrox... why should we doubt him ?
That's right. I was so proud of him when he peeled the banana, took a bite of it, and threw it back into the crowd. An iconic Scottish Football moment. Up there with "The Broony"The legendary 2-2 draw where he scored a late equaliser...
I can’t answer that question as I have zero evidence to draw comparisons.So a white person in a majority black conutry saying they’ll support a team because they have the most white players would be fine in modern society?
I genuinely doubt that. I’m not some closet racist here, you can look at my post history I’ve called others out for racism and offensive stuff in the past. You’re living in a dreamland if you think a white person saying that in any country would be acceptable to the likes of the BBC.
And why would he lie? Rangers have to believe this at face value and etc etcThat's right. I was so proud of him when he peeled the banana, took a bite of it, and threw it back into the crowd. An iconic Scottish Football moment. Up there with "The Broony"
Bobby the fantasist works full time accounts dept with edinburgh City Council 100%% TRUE plays sat soccer at portobello High school amateur league nice guy but dear me some shit storm hereI'm convinced. He's a lying racist.
Honestly did he think no one would notice a lie like that ffsThe legendary 2-2 draw where he scored a late equaliser...