World Cup 2022 Poland v Saudi Arabia, Argentina v Mexico, Tunisia v Australia, France v Denmark - Saturday 26th

Pirlo said:
Please never ever put Lee Dixon on an Argentina game again. I really don’t want to listen to some limp dick spend 90 minutes droning on about how Messi walks around the pitch and doesn’t sprint from the first whistle to the last.
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He’s a nob. Also doing his best not to give that Enzo goal the credit it deserved ‘poor defending’ ‘should never get that space but fair play to him’

If the Alice-band wearing ponce scored that for England they would be scraping Dixon’s jizz off the monitor for hours.
 
Opta said:
Modern football is different to what it was back then. Obviously it could be modern bias from me but look at the teams Pele played against every week and compare that to the sides CR7/Messi come up against on a regular basis.
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Also a complete myth about Pele winning World Cups on his own, he had arguably some of the greatest players ever in his side including Garrincha.

Southsideblueblood said:
I wonder if this new ball is effecting distance shooting for top corners. Not a single goal yet unless I missed one today. Surely everyone can't have lost their shooting boots?
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We were discussing this in the group chat the other day, I said it seems as if there's a complete lack of individuality/flair and the game is all about the systems/tactics nowadays. Maybe I'm wrong but look at this for example...


Have we had any 'screamers' this tournament so far?
 
Coisty09 said:
He made fools of some of the best Italian, German, Argentinian, Uruguayan and English defenders to ever walk this earth.
He was a proper phenomenon. He chose to live his life in his home country and be content to do so.
But had he played in Europe, would definitely have won European Cups.
In those days, people were allowed to tackle, and he would almost bounce off defenders as two footed lunges were used to try to scythe him to the ground.
There is still some decent footage of the 1970 World Cup kicking around on YouTube that you should watch of Pele.
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Exactly Pele was proper hard.
 
Coisty09 said:
He made fools of some of the best Italian, German, Argentinian, Uruguayan and English defenders to ever walk this earth.
He was a proper phenomenon. He chose to live his life in his home country and be content to do so.
But had he played in Europe, would definitely have won European Cups.
In those days, people were allowed to tackle, and he would almost bounce off defenders as two footed lunges were used to try to scythe him to the ground.
There is still some decent footage of the 1970 World Cup kicking around on YouTube that you should watch of Pele.
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I've watched highlights of the 1958 World Cup Final and it basically looks worse than junior level. Players are walking about, zero pressing.
 
gers1978 said:
I always wonder why Maradona fanboys say that CR7/Messi "have never won the WC" but never seem to remember Maradona won zero European Cups/Champions Leagues
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Maradona never played for a team in a league in Europe that could have won the European cup.
It was a miracle that he led Napoli to two Serie A titles and an Italian Cup for the first time in their history.
He was too wild for any of the big Tim’s to manage.
A similar talent to Gazza in a lot of ways, but was so good that he won the World Cup pretty well off his own back.
Watch the documentary on him and you’ll understand why he played for Napoli rather than one of the big clubs.
 
JamboReid1874 said:
He’s a nob. Also doing his best not to give that Enzo goal the credit it deserved ‘poor defending’ ‘should never get that space but fair play to him’

If the Alice-band wearing ponce scored that for England they would be scraping Dixon’s jizz off the monitor for hours.
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He’s an absolute wet wipe mate. He’s the same as McManaman, would rather whinge and microanalyses flaws instead of just giving players their due. He’s pushing Lawrenson for the most unlikeable world
Cup commentator ever.
 
They’ve won this game comfortably enough in the end but I can’t see argentina beating any of the top teams from Europe when it comes to the knockout rounds
 
Coisty09 said:
He did play with some great players but there were times when Brazil were struggling, and he always found the goal. or created the chance that led to the goal.

Maradona also did that.
Messi’s effort tonight may well do that for Argentina.
But he has not have a WC winner’s medal yet despite a number of attempts.
If they do manage it this year, he will have a shout for GOAT.
If they don’t, he can never be considered GOAT in my opinion.
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I just can't really understand the notion that in order to be considered as the best player of all time it basically comes down to whether or not your team did well in 7 games. 7 games from an entire career?

If people take nostalgia out of it then it's not even a debate.
 
Mexico have thrown a lifeline to Argentina here tonight. A couple glimmers of what they are capable of. We'll find out next week if they are to continue their one game unbeaten run.
 
Coisty09 said:
that could have won the European cup.
It was a miracle that he led Napoli to two Serie A titles and an Italian Cup for the first time in their history.
He was too wild for any of the big Tim’s to manage.
A similar talent to Gazza in a lot of ways, but was so good that he won the World Cup pretty well off his own back.
Watch the documentary on him and you’ll understand why he played for Napoli rather than one of the big clubs.
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You mean like Barcelona?
 
By the way I know it’s been done to death but the romanticism of Maradona’s career gets more absurd with each passing year. Blokes who probably saw a handful of 80’s Serie A games if they were lucky, telling us he did this and did that.

People should read up on Napoli’s squad and the money spent on it at that time.
 
Hillheadbear said:
The issue isn't Pele. The issue is who is the greatest player. Understandably, younger people tend to go with players they've known and seen. Us older Bears have seen lots of great players over the years. Goalscorers like Eusebio, Law and Muller, defenders like Beckenbauer, wingers like Best, midfielders like Zidane, Cruyff, Charlton, Pele, Maradona and, yes, Messi.

The reality is that Messi and Ronaldo are great players but to say they are the best of all time is a stretch. I'm not knocking Messi because I put him in that company. But he doesn't dominate games the way you would expect a truly great player to do so. He flits around on the fringes of the match and, yes, scores a magic goal.

That other Argentinian, Maradona, used to dominate games with his driving runs. Johann Cruyff is credited with changing the way football was played in his time. Pele won three world cups. Gerd Muller was probably the deadliest striker ever. Messi and Ronaldo are in good company, but some folk need to broaden their footballing horizons a bit.
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Gerd Muller the deadliest striker ever, yet Messi, who is basically a central midfielder now has more goals than him?

I'd genuinely love to know how many people who claim Pele or even Maradona as the greatest actually watched them that often? How often were Santos on TV, or even Napoli for that matter?

It seems that an opinion boils down to the fact they did well in a few major tournaments. Messi (and Ronaldo) have been consistent for 15+ years, Maradona flopped in Spain.

FWIW my grandpa (80) says Messi is the best he's ever seen.
 
dt17 said:
I've watched highlights of the 1958 World Cup Final and it basically looks worse than junior level. Players are walking about, zero pressing.
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The "Match of the Century" between Italy and W.Germany at the 1970 World Cup is even more brutal.

It's so unbelievably slow.
 
iain18(7)2 said:
They’ve won this game comfortably enough in the end but I can’t see argentina beating any of the top teams from Europe when it comes to the knockout rounds
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Agree, Not enough quality in the team. France and Spain - from what I've seen so far - are much more complete outfits.
 
Pirlo said:
He’s an absolute wet wipe mate. He’s the same as McManaman, would rather whinge and microanalyses flaws instead of just giving players their due. He’s pushing Lawrenson for the most unlikeable world
Cup commentator ever.
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Dixon, Murphy, McManaman, Owen, Hartson, Lawrenson.

Why do TV companies hire guys who sound as if they hate football to commentate?
 
Opta said:
The greatest club side ever in football built their squad around Messi. When Messi was at Barca and CR7 was at Real, that’s when football was at its best.
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Barca built a team round Cruyff.
Bayern were the best side in the world when Beckenbar and Muller played for them.
Real Madrid won five European cups in a row in the 60s when Di Stefano was running the show.
Many say he’s the best who’s ever played for Real Madrid.
 
dt17 said:
Gerd Muller the deadliest striker ever, yet Messi, who is basically a central midfielder now has more goals than him?

I'd genuinely love to know how many people who claim Pele or even Maradona as the greatest actually watched them that often? How often were Santos on TV, or even Napoli for that matter?

It seems that an opinion boils down to the fact they did well in a few major tournaments. Messi (and Ronaldo) have been consistent for 15+ years, Maradona flopped in Spain.

FWIW my grandpa (80) says Messi is the best he's ever seen.
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I think it’s impossible to decide who’s better than who throughout the years. I mean if you put Pele in a time ship in 1958 to now, how good would he be and vice Versa with Messi.
 
Coisty09 said:
Barca built a team round Cruyff.
Bayern were the best side in the world when Beckenbar and Muller played for them.
Real Madrid won five European cups in a row in the 60s when Di Stefano was running the show.
Many say he’s the best who’s ever played for Real Madrid.
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He won two trophies in 5 years at them.
Real Madrid have won 5 CLs in 9 years.

Fucking Linfield were getting to Quarter finals of the European Cup in the 60s.
 
How depressing would it be if Saudi beat Mexico and Argentina fail to beat Poland.
 
PaisleyBlueBear said:
I think it’s impossible to decide who’s better than who throughout the years. I mean if you put Pele in a time ship in 1958 to now, how good would he be and vice Versa with Messi.
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Pele never played in Europe and I'm not having the counter argument the leagues he played in were as strong even back then, that should disqualify him from even the top 5 all time imo.

Would rate the likes of Zidane ahead of him.
 
Pirlo said:
By the way I know it’s been done to death but the romanticism of Maradona’s career gets more absurd with each passing year. Blokes who probably saw a handful of 80’s Serie A games if they were lucky, telling us he did this and did that.

People should read up on Napoli’s squad and the money spent on it at that time.
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Aye , Napoli always won seria A before and after Don Diego !
 
dt17 said:
Tbf their tactics were rotten, did they even attempt to win the game? Can't remember Mexico having a shot at goal other than the free kick.
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Mexico set up not to lose, and that rarely ends well, mate. Argentina will need to seriously up their game for the latter stages, if they make it that is. I wasn't impressed by them tonight, tbh.
 
muttley said:
Mexico set up not to lose, and that rarely ends well, mate. Argentina will need to seriously up their game for the latter stages, if they make it that is. I wasn't impressed by them tonight, tbh.
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I can't see Argentina going far at all if they even make it out the group. For years their tactics seem to be, give it to Messi and hope he does something.

They also have absolutely no pace in their side which rarely works well. No runners in behind etc.
 
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