World Cup 2022 Poland v Saudi Arabia, Argentina v Mexico, Tunisia v Australia, France v Denmark - Saturday 26th

dt17 said:
On the topic, Pele has a few World Cups, fair play.

He also has about 700 goals against part time gardeners and lifeguards...that's not even a joke, look at the regional divisions in Brazil where he plied his trade.
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Does he not also claim goals in friendlies etc too?
 
dt17 said:
On the topic, Pele has a few World Cups, fair play.

He also has about 700 goals against part time gardeners and lifeguards...that's not even a joke, look at the regional divisions in Brazil where he plied his trade.
Click to expand...
100%. CR7/Messi have scored just under 1600 goals at the highest level between them, obviously Pele never played in Europe so perhaps I use that against him when talking about the best ever.
 
dt17 said:
On the topic, Pele has a few World Cups, fair play.

He also has about 700 goals against part time gardeners and lifeguards...that's not even a joke, look at the regional divisions in Brazil where he plied his trade.
Click to expand...
He made fools of some of the best Italian, German, Argentinian, Uruguayan and English defenders to ever walk this earth.
He was a proper phenomenon. He chose to live his life in his home country and be content to do so.
But had he played in Europe, would definitely have won European Cups.
In those days, people were allowed to tackle, and he would almost bounce off defenders as two footed lunges were used to try to scythe him to the ground.
There is still some decent footage of the 1970 World Cup kicking around on YouTube that you should watch of Pele.
 
Pele never played in Europe because the Santos fans threatened to riot if the club sold him - he agreed terms with Inter Milan. The Brazilian government also named him as a national treasure to prevent him from moving.
 
vancy said:
I hardly think he won World Cups on his own, he played with some unbelievable players.
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"won world cups on his own" - what an absolute pile of horsesh1te, same as folk saying Maradona won the WC on his own or won Serie A for Napoli on his own. Myths, and easily dispelled ones at that.
 
vancy said:
I hardly think he won World Cups on his own, he played with some unbelievable players.
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He did play with some great players but there were times when Brazil were struggling, and he always found the goal. or created the chance that led to the goal.

Maradona also did that.
Messi’s effort tonight may well do that for Argentina.
But he has not have a WC winner’s medal yet despite a number of attempts.
If they do manage it this year, he will have a shout for GOAT.
If they don’t, he can never be considered GOAT in my opinion.
 
Clay Davis said:
Would Maradona have been considered one of the greatest of all time if it wasn’t for 86?
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I always wonder why Maradona fanboys say that CR7/Messi "have never won the WC" but never seem to remember Maradona won zero European Cups/Champions Leagues
 
dt17 said:
On the topic, Pele has a few World Cups, fair play.

He also has about 700 goals against part time gardeners and lifeguards...that's not even a joke, look at the regional divisions in Brazil where he plied his trade.
Click to expand...

The issue isn't Pele. The issue is who is the greatest player. Understandably, younger people tend to go with players they've known and seen. Us older Bears have seen lots of great players over the years. Goalscorers like Eusebio, Law and Muller, defenders like Beckenbauer, wingers like Best, midfielders like Zidane, Cruyff, Charlton, Pele, Maradona and, yes, Messi.

The reality is that Messi and Ronaldo are great players but to say they are the best of all time is a stretch. I'm not knocking Messi because I put him in that company. But he doesn't dominate games the way you would expect a truly great player to do so. He flits around on the fringes of the match and, yes, scores a magic goal.

That other Argentinian, Maradona, used to dominate games with his driving runs. Johann Cruyff is credited with changing the way football was played in his time. Pele won three world cups. Gerd Muller was probably the deadliest striker ever. Messi and Ronaldo are in good company, but some folk need to broaden their footballing horizons a bit.
 
Hillheadbear said:
The issue isn't Pele. The issue is who is the greatest player. Understandably, younger people tend to go with players they've known and seen. Us older Bears have seen lots of great players over the years. Goalscorers like Eusebio, Law and Muller, defenders like Beckenbauer, wingers like Best, midfielders like Zidane, Cruyff, Charlton, Pele, Maradona and, yes, Messi.

The reality is that Messi and Ronaldo are great players but to say they are the best of all time is a stretch. I'm not knocking Messi because I put him in that company. But he doesn't dominate games the way you would expect a truly great player to do so. He flits around on the fringes of the match and, yes, scores a magic goal.

That other Argentinian, Maradona, used to dominate games with his driving runs. Johann Cruyff is credited with changing the way football was played in his time. Pele won three world cups. Gerd Muller was probably the deadliest striker ever. Messi and Ronaldo are in good company, but some folk need to broaden their footballing horizons a bit.
Click to expand...

Poor goalkeepers, always left out.
 
Hillheadbear said:
The issue isn't Pele. The issue is who is the greatest player. Understandably, younger people tend to go with players they've known and seen. Us older Bears have seen lots of great players over the years. Goalscorers like Eusebio, Law and Muller, defenders like Beckenbauer, wingers like Best, midfielders like Zidane, Cruyff, Charlton, Pele, Maradona and, yes, Messi.

The reality is that Messi and Ronaldo are great players but to say they are the best of all time is a stretch. I'm not knocking Messi because I put him in that company. But he doesn't dominate games the way you would expect a truly great player to do so. He flits around on the fringes of the match and, yes, scores a magic goal.

That other Argentinian, Maradona, used to dominate games with his driving runs. Johann Cruyff is credited with changing the way football was played in his time. Pele won three world cups. Gerd Muller was probably the deadliest striker ever. Messi and Ronaldo are in good company, but some folk need to broaden their footballing horizons a bit.
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The greatest club side ever in football built their squad around Messi. When Messi was at Barca and CR7 was at Real, that’s when football was at its best.
 
Please never ever put Lee Dixon on an Argentina game again. I really don’t want to listen to some limp dick spend 90 minutes droning on about how Messi walks around the pitch and doesn’t sprint from the first whistle to the last.
 
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