Union Bears banner at stadium

Blueknows said:
It would be helpful if those criticising would specify the exact nature of their criticisms which would probably entail the critics having sufficient knowledge of what those they are criticising actual job targets involve. So who are the critics, are they successful business people or are they sixth year pupils? You seem to be content to support the view/s of who? Do they have cogent well thought out opinion based on substantive evidence or are they just pissed off because the scum are winning things and we aren’t? I judge it to be the latter.

Neither Robertson nor Wilson are RIFC board directors. And I’ll say it again Beale, on behalf of Gerrard, GVB and Beale, as manager, have said that Wilson has not signed a 1st team player that those three managers didn’t sanction. Were there players those managers wanted that weren’t signed, absolutely. One example was Doekhi (?) who decided on Union Berlin rather than us. Frankly I’m amazed that any players that have other options choose the footballing backwater of Scotland.
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Re the highlighted part, I agree that it would be helpful and I said it on previous threads in relation to the Raith protest. I believe they should come out and explain why they believe protests are justified and why they want Wilson and Robertson gone to explain to the wider fanbase

I’m not going to entertain your nonsense dig that it’s all wee boys. I’ll also bear in mind the next time anyone on here, on social media or ag games wants to criticise anyone - player or staff - that they’ll need to provide their credentials before doing so. I hope you’ve given your name, age, job title etc on here if you’ve ever criticised any rangers employee so people know your credentials; after all, you’d be a hypocrite if you hadn’t, wouldn’t you?

“Do they have a cogent well thought out opinion based on substantive evidence…”. I didn’t realise the UB were required to write a thesis every time they believe criticism is warranted. I hope you apply the same premise to any posters on here that criticise the club, club staff or players to ensure consistency. Or is it just the case that you’ll question UBs motives purely because it’s the UB and not another fan group?
 
Dale Cooper said:
Fair point, I made a mess of saying they were stopped from entering. I don’t however believe the police took a banner off them that they weren’t asked to remove by the board.

I believe the banners removed were aimed at Robertson and Wilson
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Widely reported, and I don't think disputed by those close to the UB, that the 'offending' banner was a pig in a Police uniform adorned with '1312' (ACAB). That was the one confiscated. The others about Wilson and Robertson were freely available to the UB and they did, in fact, display them away from the ground that day.
 
Valley Bluenose said:
Widely reported, and I don't think disputed by those close to the UB, that the 'offending' banner was a pig in a Police uniform adorned with '1312' (ACAB). That was the one confiscated. The others about Wilson and Robertson were freely available to the UB and they did, in fact, display them away from the ground that day.
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That’s not entirely the case but some truth to it
 
I agree with the UB to be fair,
I listened to Beale's interview earlier and he said we are all aligned,
He also mentioned something about if you attack one or criticise one that we are all one, we are all aligned as one.
Just thought he was trying to put across we have money for the summer to spend and in his own words its a decent budget considering the budgets he has seen in the past,
Also we know your concerns but to trust us
 
Valley Bluenose said:
Do they actually have a point to put across is what I'm saying. Less than a year ago we were in the Europa final. The season before that we had an incredible unbeaten League season. The same folk were in charge, doing the same things. No real protests that I can recall. See the quote from Walter in post #26 for some perspective on the fickleness of fans.

I've no qualms about either Robertson or Wilson leaving. They are just another two employees who could, and will at some point, be replaced. Trying to hound them out, for me, is more likely to be counter-productive than successful. They will be gone when the Board decide they've not delivered - not because some fans are moaning.
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You’re either not getting the point or being wilfully ignorant.

The whole point of the protests/unrest is because we’ve stagnated as a club since we won the league, the players and Gio completely bailed the board out with that run to Seville last year because the discontent was still there.

We’ve gone from an unbeaten league title win to allowing Celtic to completely rebuild and become the dominate club again, if we don’t beat them in the Scottish Cup then it’s highly probable they’ll get yet another treble.

That’s before you get in to the plethora of issues around ticketing, recruitment, fan relations, decisions such as the Sydney friendly and so on.

There’s only so long people can go on about 2012, 55 and getting to Seville. I’d rather move forward and win things, Wilson and Robertson have been an integral part of the aforementioned stagnation, it’s time for them to go.
 
As always, the level of protest will rise or fall, depending on what happens on the pitch.

If (god forbid) the mhanks beat us at Hampden later this month to basically secure another treble, the protests will ramp up among the wider support.

You can't sack a manager after a year in the job, and turn around and say everyone else at the club is blameless because Celtic have more money.

Like your average mhank, that's never going to wash.
 
themightyi said:
You’re either not getting the point or being wilfully ignorant.

The whole point of the protests/unrest is because we’ve stagnated as a club since we won the league, the players and Gio completely bailed the board out with that run to Seville last year because the discontent was still there.

We’ve gone from an unbeaten league title win to allowing Celtic to completely rebuild and become the dominate club again, if we don’t beat them in the Scottish Cup then it’s highly probable they’ll get yet another treble.

There’s only so long people can go on about 2012, 55 and getting to Seville. I’d rather move forward and win things, Wilson and Robertson have been an integral part of the aforementioned stagnation, it’s time for them to go.
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2012, though, is precisely the reason the Dhims were able to turn it around. Our absence, and their comparative success in reaching group stages in Europe repeatedly in that period (despite some real comedy shows when they got there), is precisely what left them able to splash over £50m in the last 2 seasons to get them where they are today. Aided and abetted, it has to be said, by far superior player trading as well over that period.

We went for broke to win 55. We still owe circa £17m, though that will hopefully reduce in the next accounts. We cannot match them financially right now, nor in the short term. We have to manage our way back to the top, and that's a whole lot harder than spending your way to the top. Robertson and Wilson leaving might help with that - it might not. Change doesn't always mean better - as many clubs have discovered when it comes to Managers, for example.
 
Skylon Niagara said:
That’s beside the point I’m making here. I can remember back to 2009 and I’m asking a rhetorical question here but did protesters receive the same vitriol that the UB receive?

What gave the RST the right to protest in 2009 if they weren’t speaking for the full fan base - which is something that’s often a stick used to beat the UB with. How come it was ok for the RST to protest but not the UB? Why did people not get uptight en masse with the RST in the same way the UB trigger people?

I also remember the criticism the UB took for the Always Ibrox protest. They turned out to be right on that one though, didn’t they
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Did the RST claim to speak for the fanbase?

Do the UBs?
 
The_Gaffer said:
The Sydney Friendly.

Outrageously high ticket prices for European games.

Allowing key assets to continually enter the last year of their contracts and run them down.

An online ticket platform that is so laughable you suspect you're on a hidden camera show when trying to use it.

Continual failure in the transfer market in terms of recruitment.

Not sure what any of the above has to do with that mob's budget?
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Don't forget the pathetic effort from the board to host a viewing of the EL final for the fans that stayed in Scotland.
 
If anyone thinks they are the right people long term, remember in September we were told to be grateful for winning one league and one scottish cup in six years and Douglas Park's long term vision for the club is just 'win as many trophies as possible'.

They've ran their course, I'm happy for them to remain shareholders, but they clearly don't know how to take us to the next level and are happy winning the odd trophy every few years as long as the fans plough money in.
 
Dale Cooper said:
They’ve always said they’re an ultra group so it really doesn’t matter what other people might want tbh mate.
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They've separated themselves from the mainstream support of whom most can't be arsed with "ultra" stuff but do appreciate displays and backing that you diont really need to be an ultra to do.

I'm not particularly satisfied with Wilson or Robertson or the leadership of the club as it seems to lack direction.
 
The_Gaffer said:
The Sydney Friendly.

Outrageously high ticket prices for European games.

Allowing key assets to continually enter the last year of their contracts and run them down.

An online ticket platform that is so laughable you suspect you're on a hidden camera show when trying to use it.

Continual failure in the transfer market in terms of recruitment.

Not sure what any of the above has to do with that mob's budget?
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Nonsense.
 
The only impact the protests might have is if Robertson and Wilson decide they don’t need the hassle and decide to move on of their own volition.
The RIFC board will already have decided what changes are necessary and will execute that plan at the right time irrespective of any protests.
Just like the tennis ball protest at Dens Park made no difference as the breach of contract had already been notified to the organisers of the Australian tournament.
Some fans have a very exaggerated opinion of the effect of these protests on the RIFC board.
 
The_Gaffer said:
The Sydney Friendly.

Outrageously high ticket prices for European games.

Allowing key assets to continually enter the last year of their contracts and run them down.

An online ticket platform that is so laughable you suspect you're on a hidden camera show when trying to use it.

Continual failure in the transfer market in terms of recruitment.

Not sure what any of the above has to do with that mob's budget?
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Majority of people only care about any of that as we aren't winning trophies consistently, which has direct correlation to the amount of money celtic have.
 
Valley Bluenose said:
2012, though, is precisely the reason the Dhims were able to turn it around. Our absence, and their comparative success in reaching group stages in Europe repeatedly in that period (despite some real comedy shows when they got there), is precisely what left them able to splash over £50m in the last 2 seasons to get them where they are today. Aided and abetted, it has to be said, by far superior player trading as well over that period.

We went for broke to win 55. We still owe circa £17m, though that will hopefully reduce in the next accounts. We cannot match them financially right now, nor in the short term. We have to manage our way back to the top, and that's a whole lot harder than spending your way to the top. Robertson and Wilson leaving might help with that - it might not. Change doesn't always mean better - as many clubs have discovered when it comes to Managers, for example.
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I don't think there is much argument with how much we are actually spending, it is more the way we are spending it. No-one can convince me Robertson is capable of running a CL aspiring club. He is Motherwell level, he done a job stabilising us but he is so out his depth it's unreal.
 
Electric Atheist said:
Did the RST claim to speak for the fanbase?

Do the UBs?
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The answer to both is no. However, based on my recollection, I don’t recall that being said to the RST as a means of demonising them and trying to discredit their opinion, the same way it’s always an automatic response when the UB do something

Banned songs; some would have you believe it’s just a UB problem, even when songs aren’t started in their section

Grouping up at away games; some have you believe it’s only UB that do it however it’s often pointed out RSCs group up at games and no one ever starts threads to criticise them, only happens when it’s to have a dig at UB

We’re told the UB aren’t needed and the Ibrox atmosphere was better without them; they don’t sing at 2 games and they’re criticised. People saying their withholding their support at the detriment of the club, instead of recognising others have the ability to sing

Essentially my point is the UB are held to different standards than others and I point it out at whenever there’s any hypocrisy in the criticism labelled against them
 
Bigbluebear said:
Majority of people only care about any of that as we aren't winning trophies consistently, which has direct correlation to the amount of money celtic have.
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Money didn't lose us that cup final in February, it wasn't a factor when we beat them last season in the SC, it never made us drop 12 points in 3 weeks last season, it never made us lose two trophies to St Johnstone.

They can spend more than us, yes, but if we had people in charge who were effective with our budgets we could easily have a team that could challenge them regularly. Its not as if they are buying £50m players.
 
Valley Bluenose said:
2012, though, is precisely the reason the Dhims were able to turn it around. Our absence, and their comparative success in reaching group stages in Europe repeatedly in that period (despite some real comedy shows when they got there), is precisely what left them able to splash over £50m in the last 2 seasons to get them where they are today. Aided and abetted, it has to be said, by far superior player trading as well over that period.

We went for broke to win 55. We still owe circa £17m, though that will hopefully reduce in the next accounts. We cannot match them financially right now, nor in the short term. We have to manage our way back to the top, and that's a whole lot harder than spending your way to the top. Robertson and Wilson leaving might help with that - it might not. Change doesn't always mean better - as many clubs have discovered when it comes to Managers, for example.
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We have spent £10m+ on players that wouldn’t have improved our starting 11 from last season. It’s not that we don’t have funds, it’s the fact the funds are being misused

The reason we’re behind Celtic is because of our results against teams that have a fraction of our budget. If you’re going to bring up budgets as a reason why Celtic are ahead, I’ll point out our budget dwarfs every team out with Celtic at least 2 times over
 
The_Gaffer said:
The Sydney Friendly.

Outrageously high ticket prices for European games.

Allowing key assets to continually enter the last year of their contracts and run them down.

An online ticket platform that is so laughable you suspect you're on a hidden camera show when trying to use it.

Continual failure in the transfer market in terms of recruitment.

Not sure what any of the above has to do with that mob's budget?
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Outwith the Sydney friendly the rest of this is just general football club stuff is it not? That most fans of all clubs would moan about?
 
Skylon Niagara said:
The answer to both is no. However, based on my recollection, I don’t recall that being said to the RST as a means of demonising them and trying to discredit their opinion, the same way it’s always an automatic response when the UB do something

Banned songs; some would have you believe it’s just a UB problem, even when songs aren’t started in their section

Grouping up at away games; some have you believe it’s only UB that do it however it’s often pointed out RSCs group up at games and no one ever starts threads to criticise them, only happens when it’s to have a dig at UB

We’re told the UB aren’t needed and the Ibrox atmosphere was better without them; they don’t sing at 2 games and they’re criticised. People saying their withholding their support at the detriment of the club, instead of recognising others have the ability to sing

Essentially my point is the UB are held to different standards than others and I point it out at whenever there’s any hypocrisy in the criticism labelled against them
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The RST got some stick off some usual suspects mate. It was a while ago but it happened
 
I do find the posts calling this timmy esque quite amusing. Guess what, their protests worked and are on their way to yet another treble unless we turn up while we are watching millions of pound walk out the door while hundreds of thousands sit on the stands permanently injured.

Standards are so far in the dirt its unbelievable
 
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Skylon Niagara said:
Re the highlighted part, I agree that it would be helpful and I said it on previous threads in relation to the Raith protest. I believe they should come out and explain why they believe protests are justified and why they want Wilson and Robertson gone to explain to the wider fanbase

I’m not going to entertain your nonsense dig that it’s all wee boys. I’ll also bear in mind the next time anyone on here, on social media or ag games wants to criticise anyone - player or staff - that they’ll need to provide their credentials before doing so. I hope you’ve given your name, age, job title etc on here if you’ve ever criticised any rangers employee so people know your credentials; after all, you’d be a hypocrite if you hadn’t, wouldn’t you?

“Do they have a cogent well thought out opinion based on substantive evidence…”. I didn’t realise the UB were required to write a thesis every time they believe criticism is warranted. I hope you apply the same premise to any posters on here that criticise the club, club staff or players to ensure consistency. Or is it just the case that you’ll question
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Skylon Niagara said:
UBs motives purely because it’s the UB and not another fan group?
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Agree your first paragraph. Thereafter do you know it’s not all wee boys? If so share that knowledge with us. Anytime I’ve seen them they are wee boys but quite prepared to be proved wrong, bring forward the evidence.

If anyone is going to criticise I would expect them to be able to back up their criticism. Surely that is fair? I have put forward the evidence of three managers, Beale on behalf of Gerrard, GVB and Beale as manager that Wilson has bought no 1st team player without the sanction of the incumbent manager. What more does anyone want but the word of the managers?
 
The_Joker said:
Outwith the Sydney friendly the rest of this is just general football club stuff is it not? That most fans of all clubs would moan about?
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The contract point is one that sticks out due to Wilson’s Q&A a few years back when he said he was “generally, really, really relaxed about where we are with player contracts”

Well how relaxed is he now? We’re losing arguably our 2 biggest assets for £0
 
The_Joker said:
Outwith the Sydney friendly the rest of this is just general football club stuff is it not? That most fans of all clubs would moan about?
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Yes and it's an accumulative effect.

Of course the results have an impact, the LC Final was the trigger point. All feelings of unrest have a trigger point that manifest into protest.

It's this snobby, arrogant opinion that this is just rage from fans about losing the odd OF game. It's absolutely somebody's right to disagree with all the points but I'll repeat it's just willful ignorance to claim it's all unrest over results.
 
Blueknows said:
Agree your first paragraph. Thereafter do you know it’s not all wee boys? If so share that knowledge with us. Anytime I’ve seen them they are wee boys but quite prepared to be proved wrong, bring forward the evidence.

If anyone is going to criticise I would expect them to be able to back up their criticism. Surely that is fair? I have put forward the evidence of three managers, Beale on behalf of Gerrard, GVB and Beale as manager that Wilson has bought no 1st team player without the sanction of the incumbent manager. What more does anyone want but the word of the managers?
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Yes, there’s members that are in their 30s. Majority of their longest members will be late 20s. I know this to be a fact. They do have a lot of younger guys that stand in the section but not everyone in BF1 is a member

Their old capo Ross will be around 33/34 I’m sure
 
The Goalie said:
One of the usual suspects not happy with the RST We deserve better campaign was Walter Smith who was absolutely furious with them.
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Walters comments were mentioned by someone earlier on in the thread and he was not a usual suspect when it came to the RST
 
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Blueknows said:
Agree your first paragraph. Thereafter do you know it’s not all wee boys? If so share that knowledge with us. Anytime I’ve seen them they are wee boys but quite prepared to be proved wrong, bring forward the evidence.

If anyone is going to criticise I would expect them to be able to back up their criticism. Surely that is fair? I have put forward the evidence of three managers, Beale on behalf of Gerrard, GVB and Beale as manager that Wilson has bought no 1st team player without the sanction of the incumbent manager. What more does anyone want but the word of the managers?
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You think it’s a group of wee boys organising all the tifos and running a website with their own clothing range aye?
 
Valley Bluenose said:
2012, though, is precisely the reason the Dhims were able to turn it around. Our absence, and their comparative success in reaching group stages in Europe repeatedly in that period (despite some real comedy shows when they got there), is precisely what left them able to splash over £50m in the last 2 seasons to get them where they are today. Aided and abetted, it has to be said, by far superior player trading as well over that period.

We went for broke to win 55. We still owe circa £17m, though that will hopefully reduce in the next accounts. We cannot match them financially right now, nor in the short term. We have to manage our way back to the top, and that's a whole lot harder than spending your way to the top. Robertson and Wilson leaving might help with that - it might not. Change doesn't always mean better - as many clubs have discovered when it comes to Managers, for example.
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Again, I think you’re missing the point of the protests which is leading to the formation of your opinion.

I don’t think anyone is oblivious to the fact that Celtic can spend more than us and I don’t think anyone is calling for the club to spend money we don’t have and get ourselves in to trouble again.

The issue is that the club wastes the money it does have and it lets sellable assets run down their contracts, yet we get told by Wilson that he’s “comfortable” with contract situations.

Again though that’s just the surface level complaints, there’s plenty other issues which need addressed which others have highlighted on the thread.
 
"Time for Change" is a message that a significant section of the support would like to send to the UB themselves!
 
If you listen to David Edgar who was RST PR man during the “we deserve better” he thinks it was a huge mistake to include team tactics as part of it and he had to endure the Walter stare at a meeting.david Edgar received numerous threats because of the we deserve better campaign.at the time some punters from this messageboard escorted David to his seat to ensure he wasn’t attacked.
 
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