There is no legitimate case for sacking Steven Gerrard

Yes and they are only important because we aren’t good enough. That’s my point.

No one is disagreeing with that.

People are simply pointing out how football can be decided by fine margins. The hope and expectation from some posters is that SG will be able to turn those margins in our favour. Other posters doubt he can.
 
Off topic slightly but I always get a chuckle when people reference how shite we were under Pedro, Murty, Warburton and then stop there.

Like we weren't even shiter prior to that under McCall, McDowall and McCoist too.
 
Rodgers first season apart, Celtic are on par basically with their previous few seasons. They've 70 points after 30 games this season. Previously...

17/18 - 68 points
15/16 - 69 points
14/15 - 72 points
Yup even before Rodgers Celtic are on track for a "normal" season

People are letting the invincible season cloud their judgement I think. Celtic aren't having a "bad" season, they're having a normal season.
 
My 4 expectations/hopes on appointing Stevie G for this season, were to qualify for the Europa Group stages - he passed that test with flying colours!
Not one Bear pre season would have predicted Rangers taking it to the very last group stage game before exiting.

Win a domestic cup - that, he's sadly failed to deliver.

Stop the rot by beating the yahoos at least once - passed that test (we've never been the same since comfortably beating them at Ibrox though).

Finish a minimum 2nd, less than 10 points behind the yahoos - that remains to be seen (less than 10 points).

So at least two passes and possibly still a third out of four?

He most certainly deserves another crack of the whip in my eyes.

Next season is key though - we HAVE to win something, preferably stopping them getting another 9 titles IAR!
 
Anyone thinking another management change and more upheaval is the answer is retarded, to be honest.
No they're not, this has to stop.

It may not be what you think or want, it's actually not what I want either but the idea a Rangers fan who is able to put his point across without resorting to hysteria or myth is some sort of lunatic is garbage.
 
Anyone thinking another management change and more upheaval is the answer is retarded, to be honest.
And with our boards picks of Pedro etc can we really trust them to pick someone better than Gerrard? Especially when king is on record saying they found it hard to get the right person.

Gerrard is the right man and he will right the ship on our final third next season. He's inexperienced but I believe he will learn and go on to be an amazing manager. We just have to stick with him.

Next season if were no better off we can have this discussion but right now is silly. Gerrard has improved us and I'm confident he will do so again next season.
 
No they're not, this has to stop.

It may not be what you think or want, it's actually not what I want either but the idea a Rangers fan who is able to put his point across without resorting to hysteria or myth is some sort of lunatic is garbage.
We can't keep chopping and changing managers every summer. It costs a fortune and it creates instability. Gerrard needs to backed properly. The board somehow need to find the funds to give him a chance.
 
No they're not, this has to stop.

It may not be what you think or want, it's actually not what I want either but the idea a Rangers fan who is able to put his point across without resorting to hysteria or myth is some sort of lunatic is garbage.

Sorry but they are, its idiocy.
 
I am 100% behind Steven Gerrard he has brought us exposure where nobody else would and you never know it could attract a Mr big. Anybody who has given them the fear like he has must be right . He has the contacts to bring in Quality.
 
In any profession, you are set annual goals and targets which you are judged on at the end of your working year (or season with regards to football). When Steven Gerrard was appointed manager in the summer by Dave King, he would have been set certain goals/targets for the season - some being Non Negotiable and some Desirable. We can speculate what those goals might have been, we know that a desirable goal was King wanted Europa League Qualification but Gerrard didn't think we were ready for it at the time (he mentioned this in an interview). I would have thought Non Negotiable goals would have been finishing a clear 2nd in the league, beating Celtic and perhaps winning a Cup would have been somewhere between desirable/non negotiable.

If you started a poll on here during the summer and said the following will happen this season:

- Europa League Qualification
- Beating Celtic
- Clear 2nd in the league

Most people would have been happy with that for Gerrard's first season (no matter what they say now). For me, the only thing he has failed in so far is being papped out of both cups before the final stage but if you are looking at it from a goals perspective, he has only failed in 1/4 goals, so I would really love to hear what the actual case is for sacking the guy? Winning the title in his first season would not have been an expectation for this season.

If you take a step back and look at things objectively, it has been a decent first season for him. Imo you are mental if you want him sacked right now.

Now, before people start piling in about our win record against Killie/Aberdeen/Hibs this season, it is pretty poor, what I have posted above doesn't mean that I am happy with the games against them this season. Both things are not mutually exclusive. Would people rather we got a couple of wins against The Sheep this season like Murty done last season but ended up finishing 3rd? Of course you wouldn't. I couldn't tell you off the top of my head how many times we failed to beat these teams during the seasons we won titles growing up, because at the end of the day it's all about winning titles at Rangers. As I have mentioned previously, in our route back to being top dogs there is a process we need to go through which involves us becoming clear best of the rest (which we are now, irrespective of records against individual teams - we are 8 points clear of 3rd). The next step is making a realistic challenge for the title - that needs to come next season (and I believe it will). Most people would have been happy with that last summer as well.

When Juventus were demoted from Serie A, it took them 4/5 seasons to win the title again after being promoted and what they went through was nowhere near as bad as us in terms of players and revenue streams etc lost. We have no divine right to just come right back up and win this title right away just because we are Rangers, it is a process and we are on track. The next step in the process has been made this season with all the goals I mentioned above being met, next season is all about kicking on and making a proper push now. The manager knows what we need, he continually mentions the final 3rd and the quality etc.

It's time for deep breaths and calm heads.
What’s this a common sense approach on FF,you hit nail on the head.
Next season will probably make or break gerrard because until he wins a trophy the pressure will be on.
In Gerrard we trust
 
Folk that don't agree with you are idiots?

I'm willing to bet that's the same attitude you probably hammer the SNP for.

Different opinions and debate are healthy. But if you have a different opinion, you need to bring some logic and fact to the debate. ''No beating Killie n Aberdeen as much as we should'' just brings nothing to the table in a wider sense when people are just blatantly ignoring we are 8 points clear of 3rd place in the league.
 
We were burned out by the time the season kicked back off in January. Goldson Played 2 games all last season, has played something like 38 in all Competitions this season, same goes for Kent and Arfield. Aberdeen the other day is the first time we have gone more than a goal down to any Team in any competition. We’ve scored as many as the Tims. And only concede a few more, draws have killed us. This is not a rip it up and start again situation, it’s about clearing out some more deadwood and brining in 3-4 in key areas for the first 11. A CB partner for Goldson who is above Goldsons level, two creative attacking Mid options. Another striker option and a Right Winger who can put early quality crosses in to the box. Quality in depth has cost us. Key men like Jack and Arfield are now picking up knocks and muscle injuries due to the amount of football they are playing, and nobody comes in and does the same job.
 
In any profession, you are set annual goals and targets which you are judged on at the end of your working year (or season with regards to football). When Steven Gerrard was appointed manager in the summer by Dave King, he would have been set certain goals/targets for the season - some being Non Negotiable and some Desirable. We can speculate what those goals might have been, we know that a desirable goal was King wanted Europa League Qualification but Gerrard didn't think we were ready for it at the time (he mentioned this in an interview). I would have thought Non Negotiable goals would have been finishing a clear 2nd in the league, beating Celtic and perhaps winning a Cup would have been somewhere between desirable/non negotiable.

If you started a poll on here during the summer and said the following will happen this season:

- Europa League Qualification
- Beating Celtic
- Clear 2nd in the league

Most people would have been happy with that for Gerrard's first season (no matter what they say now). For me, the only thing he has failed in so far is being papped out of both cups before the final stage but if you are looking at it from a goals perspective, he has only failed in 1/4 goals, so I would really love to hear what the actual case is for sacking the guy? Winning the title in his first season would not have been an expectation for this season.

If you take a step back and look at things objectively, it has been a decent first season for him. Imo you are mental if you want him sacked right now.

Now, before people start piling in about our win record against Killie/Aberdeen/Hibs this season, it is pretty poor, what I have posted above doesn't mean that I am happy with the games against them this season. Both things are not mutually exclusive. Would people rather we got a couple of wins against The Sheep this season like Murty done last season but ended up finishing 3rd? Of course you wouldn't. I couldn't tell you off the top of my head how many times we failed to beat these teams during the seasons we won titles growing up, because at the end of the day it's all about winning titles at Rangers. As I have mentioned previously, in our route back to being top dogs there is a process we need to go through which involves us becoming clear best of the rest (which we are now, irrespective of records against individual teams - we are 8 points clear of 3rd). The next step is making a realistic challenge for the title - that needs to come next season (and I believe it will). Most people would have been happy with that last summer as well.

When Juventus were demoted from Serie A, it took them 4/5 seasons to win the title again after being promoted and what they went through was nowhere near as bad as us in terms of players and revenue streams etc lost. We have no divine right to just come right back up and win this title right away just because we are Rangers, it is a process and we are on track. The next step in the process has been made this season with all the goals I mentioned above being met, next season is all about kicking on and making a proper push now. The manager knows what we need, he continually mentions the final 3rd and the quality etc.

It's time for deep breaths and calm heads.[/QUOTE
 
Sorry but they are, its idiocy.
Maybe it is maybe it isnt
If gerrard turns out to be a flop is ot not just as idiotic to sleepwalk in to another disaster because "we dont want to keep changing managers" when it quite clearly isnt working

Im not saying gerrard should go but just highlighting the twe scenarios that you are ignoring to make your point
 
We were burned out by the time the season kicked back off in January. Goldson Played 2 games all last season, has played something like 38 in all Competitions this season, same goes for Kent and Arfield. Aberdeen the other day is the first time we have gone more than a goal down to any Team in any competition. We’ve scored as many as the Tims. And only concede a few more, draws have killed us. This is not a rip it up and start again situation, it’s about clearing out some more deadwood and brining in 3-4 in key areas for the first 11. A CB partner for Goldson who is above Goldsons level, two creative attacking Mid options. Another striker option and a Right Winger who can put early quality crosses in to the box. Quality in depth has cost us. Key men like Jack and Arfield are now picking up knocks and muscle injuries due to the amount of football they are playing, and nobody comes in and does the same job.

BB - if we're going to dominate the league and regularly win cups, Jack and Arfield will need replaced. We bossed the midfield v Celtic in December but since then, they've vanished.
 
Maybe it is maybe it isnt
If gerrard turns out to be a flop is ot not just as idiotic to sleepwalk in to another disaster because "we dont want to keep changing managers" when it quite clearly isnt working

Im not saying gerrard should go but just highlighting the twe scenarios that you are ignoring to make your point
We are nowhere near that stage. He's had 2 transfer windows and had to overhaul a squad on an modest budget.
 
Different opinions and debate are healthy. But if you have a different opinion, you need to bring some logic and fact to the debate. ''No beating Killie n Aberdeen as much as we should'' just brings nothing to the table in a wider sense when people are just blatantly ignoring we are 8 points clear of 3rd place in the league.
Yes but there is a scale of approval and disapproval that range from protests at the front door to rename the stadium after this guy.

I get the impression there are a few that wouldn't exactly be heartbroken if he left, that doesn't mean there at the point of praying every night that they'll wake up and he'll have gone.

I back Gerrard and the club's policy and I think he will get it right but I have doubts and some aspects of his management do worry me - and it's not always the obvious stuff that makes headlines.

The record against the likes of Hibs, Kilmarnock and Aberdeen is awful, you are right to point out the points difference but it's more the repetitiveness of the difficulties we are facing in these games and the lack of a plan to get round them.
 
Yes but there is a scale of approval and disapproval that range from protests at the front door to rename the stadium after this guy.

I get the impression there are a few that wouldn't exactly be heartbroken if he left, that doesn't mean there at the point of praying every night that they'll wake up and he'll have gone.

I back Gerrard and the club's policy and I think he will get it right but I have doubts and some aspects of his management do worry me - and it's not always the obvious stuff that makes headlines.

The record against the likes of Hibs, Kilmarnock and Aberdeen is awful, you are right to point out the points difference but it's more the repetitiveness of the difficulties we are facing in these games and the lack of a plan to get round them.

I linked a thread the other day which was from 1st of November that I created regarding our inability to break down deep lying defences, how the 433 wasn't working and the fact we needed to mix things up sometimes. So you won't hear me criticising anyone with issues like that.

If people are unhappy they should be able to articulate how though. Folk are flinging their toys out the pram when we are 8 points clear of 3rd place but then they are saying they didn't expect us to win the league this season. We could easily have 3/4 more wins on the board already this season, or the Tims could not have scored a couple of those injury time goals and we would be right in the title mix, which by everyones account, we would be massively over achieving. So people can't have it both ways - we can't be 8 points clear of 3rd and be doing sh*te when with a little more luck, we'd be bang in a title race and over achieving for the managers first season.

In short - the people moaning make no f*cking sense and don't put a coherent argument together.
 
BB - if we're going to dominate the league and regularly win cups, Jack and Arfield will need replaced. We bossed the midfield v Celtic in December but since then, they've vanished.

Which goes back to my point not enough reinforcement of quality to rest them, they’ve both burned out in the last few weeks.
 
If this was Alex Neil in charge, would the attitude be the same, would people be saying we can't keep on changing managers etc?

Doesn't matter who it is, if the results aren't good enough, questions will be asked.


By all means, ask questions

But saying time to go, get a grip.

Also, when will you be changing your avatar?
 
In any profession, you are set annual goals and targets which you are judged on at the end of your working year (or season with regards to football). When Steven Gerrard was appointed manager in the summer by Dave King, he would have been set certain goals/targets for the season - some being Non Negotiable and some Desirable. We can speculate what those goals might have been, we know that a desirable goal was King wanted Europa League Qualification but Gerrard didn't think we were ready for it at the time (he mentioned this in an interview). I would have thought Non Negotiable goals would have been finishing a clear 2nd in the league, beating Celtic and perhaps winning a Cup would have been somewhere between desirable/non negotiable.

If you started a poll on here during the summer and said the following will happen this season:

- Europa League Qualification
- Beating Celtic
- Clear 2nd in the league

Most people would have been happy with that for Gerrard's first season (no matter what they say now). For me, the only thing he has failed in so far is being papped out of both cups before the final stage but if you are looking at it from a goals perspective, he has only failed in 1/4 goals, so I would really love to hear what the actual case is for sacking the guy? Winning the title in his first season would not have been an expectation for this season.

If you take a step back and look at things objectively, it has been a decent first season for him. Imo you are mental if you want him sacked right now.

Now, before people start piling in about our win record against Killie/Aberdeen/Hibs this season, it is pretty poor, what I have posted above doesn't mean that I am happy with the games against them this season. Both things are not mutually exclusive. Would people rather we got a couple of wins against The Sheep this season like Murty done last season but ended up finishing 3rd? Of course you wouldn't. I couldn't tell you off the top of my head how many times we failed to beat these teams during the seasons we won titles growing up, because at the end of the day it's all about winning titles at Rangers. As I have mentioned previously, in our route back to being top dogs there is a process we need to go through which involves us becoming clear best of the rest (which we are now, irrespective of records against individual teams - we are 8 points clear of 3rd). The next step is making a realistic challenge for the title - that needs to come next season (and I believe it will). Most people would have been happy with that last summer as well.

When Juventus were demoted from Serie A, it took them 4/5 seasons to win the title again after being promoted and what they went through was nowhere near as bad as us in terms of players and revenue streams etc lost. We have no divine right to just come right back up and win this title right away just because we are Rangers, it is a process and we are on track. The next step in the process has been made this season with all the goals I mentioned above being met, next season is all about kicking on and making a proper push now. The manager knows what we need, he continually mentions the final 3rd and the quality etc.

It's time for deep breaths and calm heads.

Far too much logic & explanation in there DrumchapelBear.

Some of the bedwetters need a stark reminder of where we've come from & to have a little fûcking patience.
 
So is no one allowed to suggest that Arfield or Jack isn't up for the job without suggesting an alternative player instead?

Or that the board at the time deserved credit for appointing PLG?

You can suggest whatever you want.
Thing is, you’d never be happy with anything
 
You can suggest whatever you want.
Thing is, you’d never be happy with anything

That's not true at all, though. That's just a ridiculous claim with no evidence to back it up.

And if you're suggesting that I should be "happy" at how the season has panned out then I suggest we all go and support Hamilton or St Mirren.
 
One of the objectives was to become more consistent. We've failed in that department.

Looking at our fixtures between now and the end of the season, I'm concerned. Celtic (a) Hearts (h) and Motherwell (a) before the split, then 5 more matches agaisnt teams we have struggled against.

People can't say it's only internet supporters because half time, full time both on Tuesday and yesterday saw the support unleash their fury with boos. The support are becoming restless and I'm not surprised as it's simply not been good enough.

Was I excited about Steven Gerrard. Yes and no and I said so at the time.

Appointing an under 18's youth coach was a ridiculous decision after all we had gone through, where the squad was at and on the back of McCoist, Warburton, Caixinha and Murty. We needed a manager with experience and certain qualities, instead we got a rookie with no experience of management or shaping a squad.

On the other hand, Steven Gerrard, a footballing icon, world class player in his day, captain, leader. An exciting prospect.

Sadly the excitement has long gone and we are back to the struggling, turgid, toothless, one paced, predictable scrap we've been served up over the last few years.
Because the players at his disposal are not good enough
 
Or Pulis or Preud'homme, GvB, FdB, Moyes, Potter, Neil, Warnock... can't even remember all the other names discussed at length on here for 6 months.

We appointed a rookie and right now it looks like the wrong decision.
In what way does it look wrong?
 
For me the signs are not good,looks like a squad in disarray.if the decline continues then yes I hope he does the honorable thing and chucks it
 
You have all witnessed what a decent manager done for the scrum in comparison to recent results with Lennon in charge quite a noticable difference
 
Maybe it is maybe it isnt
If gerrard turns out to be a flop is ot not just as idiotic to sleepwalk in to another disaster because "we dont want to keep changing managers" when it quite clearly isnt working

Im not saying gerrard should go but just highlighting the twe scenarios that you are ignoring to make your point

That may well be the case, however all available evidence shows that ripping it up and starting again every few months doesn't work and sometime our support is going to have to suck up inconsistency to allow a manager time to get it right.
 
Sacking him isn't the answer, but neither is repeating this season over again.

He's signed 23 players and still thinks he needs more. That's not a good sign at all.
He signed that many players because he had to and with our budget your are never going to get close to getting all your signings right.
End of next season is when we can really judge the gaffer
 
Domestically there has been very little progression. We've won 17 league games all season and knocked out of both cup competitions, our record at Hampden is still hopeless. Our record and attitude in the bigger games is poor, we've got very few answers against the better sides and if its not working, we don't know how to change it.

We are also on course to finish further behind the bheggars than last season.

Were we not supposed to he closing the gap, becoming more consistent, having a strong home record. Finishing above Aberdeen but further behind the bheggars isn't some thing to shout about.

Europe blows Caixinha out the water but domestically isn't not much better than Warburton, Caixinha or Murty. There is still the predictability, the inability to change, poor decision making, loyalty to certain players, a poor attitude and lack of winning mentality. Yet again we struggled to break down dogged, organised sides and our play is slow, one paced, lethargic, impatient, predictable with a squad of players who are still toothless. Then there is our recruitment, question marks over both manager and director of football.

The calls for Gerrard's head will be louder should our next few set of results go against us. A performance similar to the 75 minutes at the piggery earlier on in the season and we will be taken apart. Hearts at home, Motherwell away - the players won't fancy that then we are in to the split and our record agaisnt a Hibs, Aberdeen and Kilmarnock is pathetic.

Summer transfer window isn't a matter of 3 or 4 players either. When you look at what we have currently got, who will leaves who could potentially be sold, there is a lot of work required there as well.

I'd love for Steven Gerrard to turn it around. As a man I admire him and have done since his playing days (even although I despise Liverpool). I just don't see it, there are too many weaknesses for me with no lessons learned.
Yeah but you can’t just say aye we done well in Europe but still same in league as murty etc
Europe took a massive toll on our players and we can all agree we would have more points if we didn’t have them extra 10 games or so.
People need to get real and remember he’s had to change a whole new team more or less with a budget of about 6/7 million.
Yes I’ve been gutted at games but also had some great times.
He needs judged at end of next season to be honest
 
I still have confidence in Gerrard, but no one should be unsackable. Let's be honest, if an unknown manager was 10 points behind, we would be calling for his head.

We really need to remember that Europa League football almost always hurts domestic form in all leagues, not just Scotland.
 
Who is actually asking/advocating this mythical management upheaval?

I don't see it myself.

However, asking questions of the manager seems normal. No?

I've blocked 10 people over the last week on here who want him gone. Twitter is absolutely rife with it, absolute morons who are trying to say Murty was better.

It's been building for months, it's only just become a public opinion the last week.

No one has issue with the folk asking questions of Gerrard. That's valid and understandable after the week we've had. The folk wanting him sacked are on a different level though, and they're too stupid to try and reason with.
 
That's not true at all, though. That's just a ridiculous claim with no evidence to back it up.

And if you're suggesting that I should be "happy" at how the season has panned out then I suggest we all go and support Hamilton or St Mirren.

These words mean absolutely anything to you?

Never fear, inevitably we shall have our years of failure, and when they arrive, we must reveal tolerance and sanity. No matter the days of anxiety that come our way, we shall emerge stronger because of the trials to be overcome.
Bill Struth
 
These words mean absolutely anything to you?

Never fear, inevitably we shall have our years of failure, and when they arrive, we must reveal tolerance and sanity. No matter the days of anxiety that come our way, we shall emerge stronger because of the trials to be overcome.
Bill Struth

They mean a lot, yes.

The board should have taken a good look at them this time last year.
 
Far too much logic & explanation in there DrumchapelBear.

Some of the bedwetters need a stark reminder of where we've come from & to have a little fûcking patience.

“remember where we’ve come from”

That’s been getting trotted out for about 3 years now. At what point is not being quite as bad as the previous bunch simply not enough?

I think it’s we’re past that point, and Celtic are strolling to an 8th title in a row while we continue to make the same mistakes. I’d say people at right to be worried.
 
No they're not, this has to stop.

It may not be what you think or want, it's actually not what I want either but the idea a Rangers fan who is able to put his point across without resorting to hysteria or myth is some sort of lunatic is garbage.
Be careful what you wish for.
 
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