There is no legitimate case for sacking Steven Gerrard

[KirkieRanger]

Is anyone seriously saying he should be sacked?

There are always the feeble minded ones.

W.A.T.P

 

[ClockworkOrange]

If they mean a lot as you say why are you being so obtuse. We are where we are, now is not the time to have another change of manager.

Why are you telling me that now is not the time to have another change of manager when I've never suggested that anywhere on this thread?

 

[JRei8790]

Why are you telling me that now is not the time to have another change of manager when I've never suggested that anywhere on this thread?

Because you are implying it, no other reason.

 

[ClockworkOrange]

Because you are implying it, no other reason.

Have I? Where explicitly? If so, why has no one else commented on it given we're now into the fifth page?

In no way, shape or form should Gerrard be sacked or replaced.

 

[JRei8790]

Have I? Where explicitly? If so, why has no one else commented on it given we're now into the fifth page?

In no way, shape or form should Gerrard be sacked or replaced.

That's better, now get behind the board and the manager. Thanks

 

[ClockworkOrange]

That's better, now get behind the board and the manager. Thanks

Nice try at the old backtracking.

 

[ClockworkOrange]

Double post.

 

[JRei8790]

Nice try at the old backtracking.

No backtracking at all, you keep sniping about the appointment of our manager, we need to back him and we need to back our board despite the mistakes they have both made. What choice do we have?

 

[ClockworkOrange]

No backtracking at all, you keep sniping about the appointment of our manager, we need to back him and we need to back our board despite the mistakes they have both made. What choice do we have?

A choice not to exaggerate the effects of a few posts on an internet forum would be one.

 

[JRei8790]

A choice not to exaggerate the effects of a few posts on an internet forum would be one.

LOL look in before you look out

 

[ClockworkOrange]

LOL look in before you look out

If that's a bit of advice I'm totally lost, but here's one for you: don't attack me for your own misinterpretations.

 

[JRei8790]

If that's a bit of advice I'm totally lost, but here's one for you: don't attack me for your own misinterpretations.

Why would you think its advice if you're totally lost? Doesn't make any sense at all but I will give you one thing you're consistent. That's not a compliment if you're totally lost again

 

[Jobra]

In any profession, you are set annual goals and targets which you are judged on at the end of your working year (or season with regards to football). When Steven Gerrard was appointed manager in the summer by Dave King, he would have been set certain goals/targets for the season - some being Non Negotiable and some Desirable. We can speculate what those goals might have been, we know that a desirable goal was King wanted Europa League Qualification but Gerrard didn't think we were ready for it at the time (he mentioned this in an interview). I would have thought Non Negotiable goals would have been finishing a clear 2nd in the league, beating Celtic and perhaps winning a Cup would have been somewhere between desirable/non negotiable.

If you started a poll on here during the summer and said the following will happen this season:

- Europa League Qualification
- Beating Celtic
- Clear 2nd in the league

Most people would have been happy with that for Gerrard's first season (no matter what they say now). For me, the only thing he has failed in so far is being papped out of both cups before the final stage but if you are looking at it from a goals perspective, he has only failed in 1/4 goals, so I would really love to hear what the actual case is for sacking the guy? Winning the title in his first season would not have been an expectation for this season.

If you take a step back and look at things objectively, it has been a decent first season for him. Imo you are mental if you want him sacked right now.

Now, before people start piling in about our win record against Killie/Aberdeen/Hibs this season, it is pretty poor, what I have posted above doesn't mean that I am happy with the games against them this season. Both things are not mutually exclusive. Would people rather we got a couple of wins against The Sheep this season like Murty done last season but ended up finishing 3rd? Of course you wouldn't. I couldn't tell you off the top of my head how many times we failed to beat these teams during the seasons we won titles growing up, because at the end of the day it's all about winning titles at Rangers. As I have mentioned previously, in our route back to being top dogs there is a process we need to go through which involves us becoming clear best of the rest (which we are now, irrespective of records against individual teams - we are 8 points clear of 3rd). The next step is making a realistic challenge for the title - that needs to come next season (and I believe it will). Most people would have been happy with that last summer as well.

When Juventus were demoted from Serie A, it took them 4/5 seasons to win the title again after being promoted and what they went through was nowhere near as bad as us in terms of players and revenue streams etc lost. We have no divine right to just come right back up and win this title right away just because we are Rangers, it is a process and we are on track. The next step in the process has been made this season with all the goals I mentioned above being met, next season is all about kicking on and making a proper push now. The manager knows what we need, he continually mentions the final 3rd and the quality etc.

It's time for deep breaths and calm heads.[/

 

[ClockworkOrange]

Why would you think its advice if you're totally lost? Doesn't make any sense at all but I will give you one thing you're consistent. That's not a compliment if you're totally lost again

Well, I did say "If..."

It also doesn't clear it up at all, whatever it was.

 

[JRei8790]

Well, I did say "If..."

It also doesn't clear it up at all, whatever it was.

Why would even be an if?
If you were totally lost?
You must try harder, anyhow you keep hating on the board and sniping at the manager

 

[Giovanni Van Henry]

The only real standout candidate in the summer was preud homme and even then half the fans didn't want him cause he had no knowledge of Scottish football. But yet he won the Belgian league with his boyhood club who hadn't won it in 20 years. Whoever we appointed there was always gonna be fans who didn't want them and then their desperate for them to fail. Let's just get behind Gerrard and allow him the summer to improve himself and the team.

 

[Dougie007]

Is anyone seriously saying he should be sacked?

Madness mate. He has made mistakes but jeez oh. He has taken rangers from a laughing stock back towards where we should be. Ok league points and recent results aren’t great but last year it was embarrassing with managers. We now have a man in charge that has something. Hopefully we give him time to realise it. I fear we/ Scottish football may force him out and we miss a trick. He will be a top
Manager. Unfortunatly we are his learning curve at the minute.

 

[ClockworkOrange]

Why would even be an if?
If you were totally lost?
You must try harder, anyhow you keep hating on the board and sniping at the manager

That it was a piece of advice was the only theory I had for a post you've still not explained.

You made an arse of misinterpreting my posts and you're at it again here. Give it up.

 

[JRei8790]

That it was a piece of advice was the only theory I had for a post you've still not explained.

You made an arse of misinterpreting my posts and you're at it again here. Give it up.

I've got it bang on, you've made a right Mike Hunt of yourself and have at first been all defensive but now you go to personal stuff because I was calling you out. Stop with the sumantics and take heed of the quote by Struth I quoted to you earlier.

 

[TheCatTheHat]

If we get pumped aff the filth , he’ll be under unbelievable pressure, Not from me btw. I think he deserves time but that’s the nature of the beast.

 

[Radish]

He isn't good enough, simple as that. Wouldn't sack him at the moment.
Manager don't just become good, all this give him time stuff never works out. Does it?

 

[mr_snrub]

In any profession, you are set annual goals and targets which you are judged on at the end of your working year (or season with regards to football). When Steven Gerrard was appointed manager in the summer by Dave King, he would have been set certain goals/targets for the season - some being Non Negotiable and some Desirable. We can speculate what those goals might have been, we know that a desirable goal was King wanted Europa League Qualification but Gerrard didn't think we were ready for it at the time (he mentioned this in an interview). I would have thought Non Negotiable goals would have been finishing a clear 2nd in the league, beating Celtic and perhaps winning a Cup would have been somewhere between desirable/non negotiable.

If you started a poll on here during the summer and said the following will happen this season:

- Europa League Qualification
- Beating Celtic
- Clear 2nd in the league

Most people would have been happy with that for Gerrard's first season (no matter what they say now). For me, the only thing he has failed in so far is being papped out of both cups before the final stage but if you are looking at it from a goals perspective, he has only failed in 1/4 goals, so I would really love to hear what the actual case is for sacking the guy? Winning the title in his first season would not have been an expectation for this season.

If you take a step back and look at things objectively, it has been a decent first season for him. Imo you are mental if you want him sacked right now.

Now, before people start piling in about our win record against Killie/Aberdeen/Hibs this season, it is pretty poor, what I have posted above doesn't mean that I am happy with the games against them this season. Both things are not mutually exclusive. Would people rather we got a couple of wins against The Sheep this season like Murty done last season but ended up finishing 3rd? Of course you wouldn't. I couldn't tell you off the top of my head how many times we failed to beat these teams during the seasons we won titles growing up, because at the end of the day it's all about winning titles at Rangers. As I have mentioned previously, in our route back to being top dogs there is a process we need to go through which involves us becoming clear best of the rest (which we are now, irrespective of records against individual teams - we are 8 points clear of 3rd). The next step is making a realistic challenge for the title - that needs to come next season (and I believe it will). Most people would have been happy with that last summer as well.

When Juventus were demoted from Serie A, it took them 4/5 seasons to win the title again after being promoted and what they went through was nowhere near as bad as us in terms of players and revenue streams etc lost. We have no divine right to just come right back up and win this title right away just because we are Rangers, it is a process and we are on track. The next step in the process has been made this season with all the goals I mentioned above being met, next season is all about kicking on and making a proper push now. The manager knows what we need, he continually mentions the final 3rd and the quality etc.

It's time for deep breaths and calm heads.

Good post, I agree with pretty much all of it. I will say that I think the vast majority of Bears see that it's no use chopping and changing manager. However it's reasonable to have concerns, especially with our decline after the break and Sg's conservatism with subs and reluctance to change our shape. You could counter that by saying he doesn't have the players in place yet so he gets the summer and the first half of next season for me.

 

[gers1978]

He isn't good enough, simple as that. Wouldn't sack him at the moment.
Manager don't just become good, all this give him time stuff never works out. Does it?

I wonder if that bloke Ferguson ever came good at Man Utd? If only the board had given him time...

 

[Gallant_Few]

Steven Gerrard is going no where.

 

[wee bud's pit boots]

Different opinions and debate are healthy. But if you have a different opinion, you need to bring some logic and fact to the debate. ''No beating Killie n Aberdeen as much as we should'' just brings nothing to the table in a wider sense when people are just blatantly ignoring we are 8 points clear of 3rd place in the league.

Going by your logic the 'good run in Europe' argument is just as spurious.

It would appear getting into the group stages is your only hand. And let's just clear things up here. How many games in European competition this season did we actually win?

But getting back to matters domestic, you might be happy being 8 points clear of dross in the league, and in reality that's three games worth of dropped points, I'm not.

We are garbage.

That you've settled for being better garbage this season than last, is the crux of the debate.

 

[Drumchapel-Bear]

Going by your logic the 'good run in Europe' argument is just as spurious.

It would appear getting into the group stages is your only hand. And let's just clear things up here. How many games in European competition this season did we actually win?

But getting back to matters domestic, you might be happy being 8 points clear of dross in the league, and in reality that's three games worth of dropped points, I'm not.

We are garbage.

That you've settled for being better garbage this season than last, is the crux of the debate.

Europe isn't my ''only hand''. If you had bothered to actually read the OP you would see the case put forward was far greater than that.

 

[DougieJones]

It’s time to circle the wagons, get a siege mentality around the club. All season we’ve did the stiff upper lip act while getting shafted on a weekly basis. Losing our manager is the last thing we need right now, it’s what our enemies are desperate for. Get the players back Stevie, get them fighting for you. Quality can wait till the Summer, right now we’re in a war. First thing to do - get McCrorie and Halliday in pronto, we need a bit of steel.

 

[Vader]

I absolutely agree there's no case for a sacking.

But we have not finished second yet. And if we don't start winning matches again Aberdeen may well catch us.

 

[Baloo_the_Bear]

There was no legitimate case for hiring him in the first place.

That is the concerning thing here.

This^^^
My dad who has been attending games for nigh on 60 years said it at the time- it's nothing more than a clever marketing ploy to shift season tickets. If he wins something or pushes them to a title challenge then the board will be seen as having pulled off a master stroke in appointing him. If he fails then they hold their hands up & admit to getting it wrong 'again'.
Either way Gerrard keeps his name & reputation intact.

It pains me to admit it but he's right.

That he's known across the world and gave fans a much needed shot in the arm after the events of the past 6-7 years was no reason to take another punt on a rookie manager.

& this^^^

We are 1 of the biggest clubs in the world & should have no problems attracting a tested & proven manager.
Rangers isn't somewhere to cut your cloth in the managerial world (Souness was a different era before anyone mentions it). Even more so given their dominance just now.
I'm not calling for SG to be sacked but he has to deliver next season, if he doesnt then he has to go-possibly mid-season depending on results.
The problem then is we're back to square one & rebuilding again.

As for just now, its Gerrards team-something isnt working & he seems clueless as how to fix it.
No matter how you dress it up, he's failing. Our results don't lie.

 

[Mr. T.]

Have addressed this question at various points throughout this thread.

Sorry, but you haven't. You've said plenty about who and what you DON'T want. You've even said what you want - but I'll come back to my question WHO would you suggest should have been appointed at this point last year. (Or, indeed now if Gerrard was to be replaced)?

 

[BlueHaze]

Like every other Bear I have been very underwhelmed with our inconsistent form,Our displays against the middle ranking teams in the league has been shocking but sacking Stevie G is not the answer this time next year if we are still struggling to see consistent improvement it could be different.

 

[Walters80]

I don't think he'll be sacked by the board but I suspect we might see a parting of ways come the summer.

Honestly can't see him working under a similar type of budget to last summer for me he'll be demanding at least £15m in fees plus the £10m+ extra wages that will entail even if we sell Morelos for a huge fee that kind of money won't be given to him.

This teams body language also does not look great at the minute and too many heads are down so I can't see any miraculous turn around in the last set of fixtures.

I think he'll take a job in the English championship this summer given the pressure that will be on him if we leave the nonce dome with 1 win in 6 games.

 

[Moreloslaces]

Is anyone seriously saying he should be sacked?

Unfortunately yes.

 

[ghoulishworm]

The clips we saw on Rangers tv. of the dugout McAllister was sitting like a wee nodding dog,aye Stevie your right Stevie,where he should be at least pointing out where to change formation or switching players around to give our opponents something different to think about.

 

[Taki]

We are 1 of the biggest clubs in the world & should have no problems attracting a tested & proven manager.
Rangers isn't somewhere to cut your cloth in the managerial world (Souness was a different era before anyone mentions it). Even more so given their dominance just now.
I'm not calling for SG to be sacked but he has to deliver next season, if he doesnt then he has to go-possibly mid-season depending on results.
The problem then is we're back to square one & rebuilding again.

As for just now, its Gerrards team-something isnt working & he seems clueless as how to fix it.
No matter how you dress it up, he's failing. Our results don't lie.

Struth, Greig, Souness, Smith - all had their first management jobs at Rangers.

And Souness came into a far tougher environment than we have today. And having argued that it was a different era, you then say Gerrard should go in a few months time dependent upon results. You're all over the place.

 

[Baloo_the_Bear]

Struth, Greig, Souness, Smith - all had their first management jobs at Rangers.

And Souness came into a far tougher environment than we have today. And having argued that it was a different era, you then say Gerrard should go in a few months time dependent upon results. You're all over the place.

I said if he fails to deliver next season then he has to go, possibly mid-season depending on our results.
We cant stand blindly by in the hope he gets it right as they go onto 9...

 

[Earl of Leven]

There is no legitimate case for believing Steven Gerrard is the next Pep

Amazing what headlines can say isn't it? Or some 'bold'. The facts are we can't chop and change every summer - absolutely correct - but there is no evidence at all he is as good a coach as he was player. Saying "He'll be hurting too" is not any sort of evaluation of his time with us. People hope he is good, and hope he shows it in time...that's fine but it's not the same as a track record of success.

 

[SDF]

I said if he fails to deliver next season then he has to go, possibly mid-season depending on our results.
We cant stand blindly by in the hope he gets it right as they go onto 9...

This obsession with their NIAR/TIAR needs to stop.

Who gives a fúck ? We weren't there for half of it. It didn't even matter to the man who invented passing football, why should it matter to you ?

The idea Gerrard should not get the required time because they've won 7 titles before he was on the scene is just staggering to me.

 

[Taki]

I said if he fails to deliver next season then he has to go, possibly mid-season depending on our results.
We cant stand blindly by in the hope he gets it right as they go onto 9...

No-one gives a shit about their '9'. The only people giving it credence are hysterical bedwetters on here. Even the Yahoos know it's a tainted run.

The only thing that matters for us is winning the league for ourselves, not because of what the Yahoos might think.

If we're giving managers 12-18 months then we won't be winning a league for a while.

 

[Earl of Leven]

This obsession with their NIAR/TIAR needs to stop.

Who gives a fúck ? We weren't there for half of it. It didn't even matter to the man who invented passing football, why should it matter to you ?

The idea Gerrard should not get the required time because they've won 7 titles before he was on the scene is just staggering to me.

Agreed 100% but it's Rangers and growth, stability and success are all measures by trophies. Many of our fans (myself included) see anyone else winning as a sign of failure at our club: they do well when we struggle. Slowly steadily getting a wee bit better with no silverware is nothing at our club and never has been.

 

[Walters80]

Agreed 100% but it's Rangers and growth, stability and success are all measures by trophies. Many of our fans (myself included) see anyone else winning as a sign of failure at our club: they do well when we struggle. Slowly steadily getting a wee bit better with no silverware is nothing at our club and never has been.

100% agree part of the problem right now is that we see finishing above a terrible Aberdeen side who have been unable to beat Livi, Hamilton and Stenhousemuir at home in 2019 as some sort of achievement.

In all likelihood we’ll finish more points behind the yahoos than last season and have a worse record in the cups that should be our baseline for judging how this seasons gone domestically not one individual game on the 29th of December.

No one can blame the gaffer for not winning the league given the situation but losing 3 times to an awful Aberdeen side who have effectively killed our hopes in 2 out of 3 competitions this season can be put at the managers door.

Aberdeen train on public parks, have a striker that came from the 4th level of English football and have a budget that is £20,000,000+ smaller than ours but have come closer to winning a trophy than we have this season.

We are Rangers not St Johnstone our season should be defined by winning trophies full stop.

 

[DMac]

Not heard anyone saying he should be sacked

 

[Sebo1872]

He shouldn't be sacked, but the majority of us would not have been happy with our current position if asked at the start of the season. A lot of fans thought we would win the league, or at least still be challenging come the split. Those who didn't think the league was feasible this year expected at least to win a cup.

1. I would have been happy with 2nd as we haven't "achieved" that since coming back to the top flight.
2. No they didn't.
3. I would say hoped for a cup win rather than expected.

 

[Kirbys House]

He shouldn't be sacked, but the majority of us would not have been happy with our current position if asked at the start of the season. A lot of fans thought we would win the league, or at least still be challenging come the split. Those who didn't think the league was feasible this year expected at least to win a cup.

Anyone that thought that Gerrard should be delivering that this year is clueless. Not saying it was beyond the realms of possibility but it can in no way be used as a realistic measurement of his success/failure this season.

 

[Turrabear]

Not at this moment there isn,t but next season might be a different matter.

 

[Kirbys House]

Sacking him isn't the answer, but neither is repeating this season over again.

He's signed 23 players and still thinks he needs more. That's not a good sign at all.

Bit of a false stat - 7 are loans (of which 2 are already gone & 4 more set to leave end of season) and McAuley's out of contract & probably also away.

Struggling to see how you think we don't need to sign a good few more?

 

[Growler]

Being totally negative, we had the easiest possible draw for Europe and our 3 group opponents all sacked their managers. Domestically, the Tims have been surprisingly poor and have a failed Hibs and Bolton manager in charge instead of Rodgers.

We are 2 points better off than this stage last season and have been knocked out of both cups by Aberdeen, with neither game at Pittodrie.

Still, I enjoyed Europe and there are definite signs of progress. Of course we need to stand by him, but he needs real backing in the Summer and he also has to stop playing his favourites and become much more flexible in his tactics.

I think he will learn, but at this stage, it’s more based on hope than evidence.

 

[RFC4ME]

The notion people don't want him sacked is a load of shit, plenty hint strongly at it, push on it and are ready for that chat.

Chat such as "well I don't know who the answer is but I ken it's no him" for example, that's the chat of someone wanting him sacked.

As an aside, if you say such things and do want him sacked, you're a fucken dafty.

 

[RFC4ME]

We had absolutely no right to even be in Europe this year - no one thought we would be at that party, - we went out for a few pints and expected little, to be home at 7 - but ended up finishing our night in the Chicken dippers, with a kebab and getting back home at 4 in the morning - we didn't get our end away, but we had a fucken decent and unexpected night perving on some chebs .. it was a nice wee bonus and a night out folks will talk about for a while and laugh about it.

It is oft said "well being better than less shite" isn't a success - it absolutely is.

Should we have been as shite as were before him NO - but we WERE that's the context and situation of the job he took over.

He arrived at a club and squad who were a football shambles - that needed improved, altered and changed.

 

[Angrybluebear]

The posters on here starting threads saying he shouldn’t be sacked are the same posters who were on here saying the previous managers should be even though they had better win percentages. Madness.

I have only ever wanted two Rangers managers sacked both because they were out their depth McCoist and Murty.