Union Bears Have Two Choices – Lead Or Die

[laudofan]

Personally I don’t know how we could try to put this idea across though.

Would be good for the club to be more interactive with the fans

Definitely. The likes of Club 1872 speak regularly with the supporters liason officer I think? Surely with some positive ideas and good communication a solution could be found. And I would tend to involve UEFA in the discussion as well.

If the club and the fans show a willingness to clean up our act while preserving some of the positive aspects of the traditional chants, I'd like to think UEFA would be amenable to that.

 

[MSF]

The songs have to stop immediately now. Could anyone who goes along to the Legia game on Thursday, fully aware of the ramifications of singing these songs and then belts them out, could they really call themself a supporter?

I would put my house on it that if the club thinks this problem will dissapear by itself, or by banning UB, they will be wrong.

Fully expect to hear the songs on Sunday, even though I disagree with them being sung.

If the club want it to stop they need to make an effort to do interact.

 

[Valley Bluenose]

I like the idea of the club officially endorsing what should be sung. To me, the club being proactive makes it harder for the likes of UEFA to take issue.

I suggested on another thread that club produces a positive solution regarding what was TBB/Marching Through Georgia.

"Marching Through Georgia" is a great tune. It should be eminently possible for fans groups to agree on lyrics which could be officially endorsed and approved, beginning with "Hello Hello! We are the Rangers Boys."

This official version could be published in the programme regularly/put on the screens and the fans encouraged to sing the new version word for word. The usual warnings would apply to anyone singing unacceptable words.

This worked for "Sloop John B"/"Four Lads Had a Dream" and it's one of our best new songs.

The Club would happily, I'm sure, endorse songs like BSOI, ESWF and FF - without the add-ons. Indeed they do already by playing them over the tannoy. If you expect this Rangers Board, or any other modern-day Rangers Board, to endorse the singing of 'cultural' songs - with or without reference to 19th Century Terrorists, the Pope or Bobby bloody Sands - then you will have a very, very long wait. Consequently the Board are damned if they do and damned if they don't.

The really simple solution is that we go to the football and sing songs about our football club. Ditch the other stuff - all of it. It doesn't need a list, it needs common sense and realism.

 

[OohAhHuistra]

Mate I suppose it's easier to blame someone else for a problem that is everyone's doing.

Very true a lot easier to pass the blame. It’s sad to see one set of fans being hung out to dry.

Too many clinging to the “game” mentioned but we’ve beem reported last season also when the whole stadium was singing said songs on European nights.

 

[Valley Bluenose]

I would put my house on it that if the club thinks this problem will dissapear by itself, or by banning UB, they will be wrong.

Fully expect to hear the songs on Sunday, even though I disagree with them being sung.

If the club want it to stop they need to make an effort to do interact.

I'm all for the Club interacting with the fans but I don't see that as being crucial to this issue. There's much more to discuss than songs.

On songs, however, how do you expect the Club to 'interact'? Tell us not to sing about 19th Century Terrorists? We know that. Tell us not to go on about the Pope? We know that. Tell us to sing songs about Rangers? We know that.

I've sung these songs loud and proud in the past. These days I'm older and wiser. I know that is has hurt, and will continue to hurt, the Club. It is we, the fans, who have to address this. The Northern Ireland fans succeeded - through fan-led initiatives - why can't we?

 

[eeboh]

It wasn’t just them that sang the songs though.

That is a fact.

Here's another fact mate, the whole stadium will be shut down if another report finds us guilty. It's up to everyone of us at these games to open our eyes at what's going on and start 'playing the game'.

 

[laudofan]

The Club would happily, I'm sure, endorse songs like BSOI, ESWF and FF - without the add-ons. Indeed they do already by playing them over the tannoy. If you expect this Rangers Board, or any other modern-day Rangers Board, to endorse the singing of 'cultural' songs - with or without reference to 19th Century Terrorists, the Pope or Bobby bloody Sands - then you will have a very, very long wait. Consequently the Board are damned if they do and damned if they don't.

The really simple solution is that we go to the football and sing songs about our football club. Ditch the other stuff - all of it. It doesn't need a list, it needs common sense and realism.

No I agree. The board should, and quite rightly, endorse only football songs.

My idea is, that since "Hello Hello"/"Marching Through Georgia" has traditionally been such a popular and rousing chant among Rangers fans, the club and fans should come up with an official, football-only, version that would be acceptable to UEFA and indeed anyone else.

For me, only a small minority would miss singing the "old" lyrics.

 

[Sheamaker]

I do.

I’m saying that the Union Bears, however, due to their size and influence can be proactive and lead by example.
You could consider that view to be a compliment.

You’re coming across very defensively and appear to more concerned about the Union Bears being unfairly treated than you are looking for about finding a solution to our problem singing.

It's a complex issue but you cant criticise the UB or give them advice it seems.

Your OP is spot on, putting any blame to the side they have their two choices, one could see the end of them the other could see the most the support and the club unite with them and drive our support on to a place these chargers are unlikely to happen in the future.

Hopefully they choose wisely as majority want the UB there doing what they do best.

 

[giogaddi]

I would put my house on it that if the club thinks this problem will dissapear by itself, or by banning UB, they will be wrong.

Fully expect to hear the songs on Sunday, even though I disagree with them being sung.

If the club want it to stop they need to make an effort to do interact.

I think we'll start refusing away tickets soon if it continues.

 

[The_Seal]

Why are the unionbears getting the blame? So if we hammer the scum in 2 weeks time, and people next to them start hammering TBB. OH blame the UB lol.

 

[Cathro08]

Has the union bears released any statement or any one heard anything from Ross etc as to there thoughts on it?

 

[bazil]

Just a thought but I think it would be a great shame to lose a rousing anthem like TBB. How about changing the lyrics to “we’re up to our knees in Celtics fleas”. Do a mass leaflet handout at the entrance to the stadium at the old firm game. One side of leaflet explaining the importance of not singing the offending part and on the other side the full song with new lyrics. Get it sung at a certain point of the match and stick two fingers up at the haters to make the point it’s our song and it won’t be dropped. It would still be taking the piss out of the unclean scum and not a thing anyone can do. Up to our knees in celtics fleas would be noticeably different from 19th Century Terrorist blood so no mistaking when it comes over on tv or stadium. New lyrics would hopefully catch on after a while.

outwith Scotland and Ulster no one knows what were singing and nor do they care,they wouldnt know if it was the Killie boys or the Billy boys , that said i agree it might sound daft,if we were to follow youre lead, the Enablers would be furious, and no one outside of this now shitehole of country would be any the wiser, i always sing when we do follow follow, instead of fluk the the pope i sing stuff that nasty person, so i think you are onto something, i also like blasting out on my music player Come on the Sloop John B, by the beach boys

 

[Beer Belly Loyal]

I'd just like to say if any Rangers fan "takes the huff" over this then I'll be so disappointed in them.

 

[sonofbunk]

The UBs should not be the fall guys for this.

The vast majority of what they do is good and positive.

Which I hope that the majority of the fans (myself included) recognise.

But, this season a new part of the UB routine is that within the first 5 minutes of games they are starting the billy boys (using the fantastic original first verse) and that then spreads along the BF.

That was the only time I heard the BB against St Joseph’s so surely that has led directly to here?

UB should absolutely take plaudits. But they also should accept criticism. Ross’ response on twitter thus far has only been to tweet a defiant pic of the UB artwork. Maybe he would be better doing as the OP suggests and being in the vanguard of fixing this problem.

 

[Gramps1]

See the easy targets are still getting it tight.

Again..Never heard the guy with the mic start the billy boys or 50 p flute song once always started at other end of the ground and am in BF2 so know what am talking about.

 

[A Magician Named Gob]

Utter pish.

That's a pretty good way to sum the ultras culture up.

 

[Jeeb]

This is my first and last post on the subject.

I absolutely believe we are all to blame for this outcome. The club could have led better (by proactively conversing with the authorities and reporting back to the fan base e.g. we have been reported numerous times but not informed as a fan base,) the UB's getting a hard time here is tough to watch, but they along with many fans still sing the add ons, and ALL fans who attend and scream the BBs and other such songs, with lyrics that don't belong in modern day society.

I used to be as bad when I had a season book, I count myself in that number.

However you almost have to applaud at the organisation of the filth around this. Fare have been proven to be directly funded by them. While walking about Scot free after the effigies, continual sectarianism and other disgusting behaviour (not least their constant infighting on the streets of Glasgow,) they continue to hide in plain site, with help from the SMSM of course.

Before you cry whataboutary, that's not where this is going.

We need to finally go to war on sectarianism and racism.
1- Sort our own house out. Positively work with the authorities and self-police in the stands.
2- Work the songbook so we don't lose the atmosphere at Ibrox.
3- Organise our fight back.

This could form of 1 person/group (Vanguard/Union bears, blue order, C1872 etc.) taking it on the chin and watching their games, documenting their horrific songbook and banners and listing it in a secret forum somewhere. Then organised, documented complaints from the many bears who are ready to fight back, to UEFA, fifa, SFA, SPL, FARE, BBC, Premier Sports, Sky etc.

If we are cleaning up - and we must - then the playing ground has to be level, and they can't ignore us forever. The club can use that information in FOI to fight back directly in the public eye.

 

[Forth Bear]

That's a pretty good way to sum the ultras culture up.

You just continue with the hand-wringing.

Who needs enemies, eh?

 

[1690]

I stand in BF1. I'm not part of the Union Bears. In fact a lot of people don't seem to realise that BF1 consists of two blocks of seating, not just the corner one used by the UB (apparently the Union Bears themselves don't realise this, if Ross with the megaphone shouting over at us as "BF2" is anything to go by).

Most people in BF1 aren't Union Bears, but we've all been essentially banned by the club for this Thursday. I wasn't present at the Saint Joseph's game. I'm pissed off. Some on here will say I should vent that anger on the Union Bears, that it's their fault. I think that's a ridiculous idea.

At any given game you'll hear the Union Bears sing Follow Follow, Blue Sea of Ibrox, Copland Road, Every Other Saturday, A Trip to Ibrox. Nobody joins in. Then they sing Build My Gallows, Father's Advice, We're Coming, and get a far better reaction. What're they to do?

They come up with new chants. They get told "none ah this modern European ultras pish." They come up with a new song for our captain and nobody bothers to learn the words. They sing Rangers songs at least half the time, and maybe get other stands joining in once or twice during a game, at best, if we're winning.

Lastly, in three seasons in BF1 I've almost never heard the Union Bears start up Super Rangers (which, for the record, I think is a pish song). It almost always seems to come from further along the Broomloan Front, or sometimes the main stand.

Make no mistake, the Union Bears are scapegoats here. They're not the problem. If they're disbanded tomorrow you'll still have the naughty songs breaking out with gusto at big games, and when we're not winning in a match that isn't against the scum or in Europe the place will be a morgue. If I were a UB I'd say hell mend the rest for the attitude displayed since yesterday.

 

[Shengus Malengus]

Bullshit. It’s not only the Union Bears who sing these songs.

Funnily enough it’s guys like you that are never done telling us if it wasn’t for the UB’s there’d be no singing at Ibrox.
True enough, when they had their wee singing boycott the ground was like a morgue.

How difficult is it for people to grasp that we’re only requesting that they set an example.
They have the most important part to play in all of this.

 

[Crispy Bacon]

I stand in BF1. I'm not part of the Union Bears. In fact a lot of people don't seem to realise that BF1 consists of two blocks of seating, not just the corner one used by the UB (apparently the Union Bears themselves don't realise this, if Ross with the megaphone shouting over at us as "BF2" is anything to go by).

Most people in BF1 aren't Union Bears, but we've all been essentially banned by the club for this Thursday. I wasn't present at the Saint Joseph's game. I'm pissed off. Some on here will say I should vent that anger on the Union Bears, that it's their fault. I think that's a ridiculous idea.

At any given game you'll hear the Union Bears sing Follow Follow, Blue Sea of Ibrox, Copland Road, Every Other Saturday, A Trip to Ibrox. Nobody joins in. Then they sing Build My Gallows, Father's Advice, We're Coming, and get a far better reaction. What're they to do?

They come up with new chants. They get told "none ah this modern European ultras pish." They come up with a new song for our captain and nobody bothers to learn the words. They sing Rangers songs at least half the time, and maybe get other stands joining in once or twice during a game, at best, if we're winning.

Lastly, in three seasons in BF1 I've almost never heard the Union Bears start up Super Rangers (which, for the record, I think is a pish song). It almost always seems to come from further along the Broomloan Front, or sometimes the main stand.

Make no mistake, the Union Bears are scapegoats here. They're not the problem. If they're disbanded tomorrow you'll still have the naughty songs breaking out with gusto at big games, except when we're not winning in a match that isn't against the scum or in Europe the place will be a morgue. If I were a UB I'd say hell mend the rest for the attitude displayed since yesterday.

The UB could do with being hooked up to the/a pa in the broomy, like a lot of euro sides do at their stadium.

No naughty songs, pa is monitored, broomy joins in, stadium joins in. Give them responsibility, trust them, brief them and let them show they can lead the way.

If the UB and the club could work proactively together then we could really resolve this, however there seems to be some kind of stand off between the two. No doubt we will see another protest next league home game, sadly.

 

[Nacho Novo]

I stand in BF1. I'm not part of the Union Bears. In fact a lot of people don't seem to realise that BF1 consists of two blocks of seating, not just the corner one used by the UB (apparently the Union Bears themselves don't realise this, if Ross with the megaphone shouting over at us as "BF2" is anything to go by).

Most people in BF1 aren't Union Bears, but we've all been essentially banned by the club for this Thursday. I wasn't present at the Saint Joseph's game. I'm pissed off. Some on here will say I should vent that anger on the Union Bears, that it's their fault. I think that's a ridiculous idea.

At any given game you'll hear the Union Bears sing Follow Follow, Blue Sea of Ibrox, Copland Road, Every Other Saturday, A Trip to Ibrox. Nobody joins in. Then they sing Build My Gallows, Father's Advice, We're Coming, and get a far better reaction. What're they to do?

They come up with new chants. They get told "none ah this modern European ultras pish." They come up with a new song for our captain and nobody bothers to learn the words. They sing Rangers songs at least half the time, and maybe get other stands joining in once or twice during a game, at best, if we're winning.

Lastly, in three seasons in BF1 I've almost never heard the Union Bears start up Super Rangers (which, for the record, I think is a pish song). It almost always seems to come from further along the Broomloan Front, or sometimes the main stand.

Make no mistake, the Union Bears are scapegoats here. They're not the problem. If they're disbanded tomorrow you'll still have the naughty songs breaking out with gusto at big games, and when we're not winning in a match that isn't against the scum or in Europe the place will be a morgue. If I were a UB I'd say hell mend the rest for the attitude displayed since yesterday.

Its true, the loyalist songs have more oomph than songs about Rangers, think that is really the real reason they are sung. Just a guess.

 

[Valley Bluenose]

...If I were a UB I'd say hell mend the rest for the attitude displayed since yesterday.

Its unfair of me to pick out but a single sentence of your post but when I got to this bit all it did was leave me asking 'what will that achieve'? The OP is correct, there is an opportunity here for the UB. I'm not so sure they Club will avail them of that opportunity unless the UB are the ones to take the initiative (something the Club are notoriously shit at at).

 

[BlueHaze]

I'm 65 and I've been singing tbb since I was 6 so i can't blame the UBs,
I fully support the guys and I am very confident they can make changes and move forward as the main drivers of the atmosphere at Ibrox,The away support are another worry altogether,
I put the resurgence of tbb which had died a death during our seasons in the lower divisions down to the worst display of sectarianism ever seen at a Scottish football groundour first visit to the cesspit when we returned to the premiership,It left us thinking if they can get away with that tbb is fair game,We all know now the fhilths display of banners and effigies hardly got a mention and open season on Rangers was declared.

 

[1690]

Its unfair of me to pick out but a single sentence of your post but when I got to this bit all it did was leave me asking 'what will that achieve'? The OP is correct, there is an opportunity here for the UB. I'm not so sure they Club will avail them of that opportunity unless the UB are the ones to take the initiative (something the Club are notoriously shit at at).

The issue is the opportunity mentioned is illusory. The Union Bears sing Rangers songs, fans don't join in. It's therefore a false premise to say "clean up the act and just sing Rangers songs and it'll all be fine."

For the record I do hope the UBs do this, partly because it'll just prove that our home support don't actually care about a repertoire of Rangers songs and other fans can hopefully stop the hypocrisy towards them. The UBs aren't a big enough organisation to effect a complete change with the Rangers support. Blaming them for not being influential enough/not being a handy quick fix does them no favours.

 

[True Blue Avenger]

Absolutely despairing at some of the replies on here...its not a case of apportioning full blame to UB, far from it, so folk need to stop being so defensive over them. We all shoulder the responsibility to clean up our act, from Copeland to Club Deck. Many people have commented positively on some of the things UB bring to the table.

However, I think its blindingly obvious that they are the biggest organised singing group in the stadium by far and probably start more than half of the overall songs sung ( whether "offensive" or not). It's therefore understandable that they would be one of the first in the firing line from the clubs perspective now that the time for drastic action is required.

OP is sensibly calling for UB to lead the way here and use whatever influence they have - which is way more than any one bear or random collection of fans - to help us minimise the chances of further punishment. They may feel hard done by over the seat losses for Thursday but put it to the side and recognise the opportunity to work with the club on solutions and perhaps reap some trust and rewards in the process. At the very least, ensure their own section no longer sings any of the songs that will get us in bother and hopefully the rest of the stadium follows.

 

[Mbt79]

I don't think just the UBs are responsible and my perception its games where theres less season tickets there like europe where it starts up elsewhere.

That said, I have noted a number of times it's been them, and there was the steve clarke thing last season which cost them progress in developing safe standing.

I don't think it's down to any one fan or group but they could certainly set the tone and lead us forward, as they do at every game. I think we'll be changed whether we like it or not now, and i think most fans want it.

We can treat it as an opportunity and be positive and constructive or we'll all be dragged into it either way, and be divided and at odds with one another. The result will be the same.

 

[WearsideGallantFew]

As things stand, I'm of the opinion that the Union Bears are finished as a fans' group.

I think that the only way back for them would be if they were to work hand in hand with the club and lead the efforts to promote non-offensive songs at Ibrox and at away games.

Now, it's not for me to tell this group what to do as I'm not and never have been a member – but, if I was, I'd be approaching the club in an apologetic manner and asking what the group can do to work with the club in an effort to help educate our wider support – and safeguard the future of the Union Bears.

Just like they do with the offensive songs the Union Bears start, the rest of the ground would follow the Union Bears' lead if they started singing only acceptable songs.

I actually wouldn't be surprised if the club didn't just disband the Union Bears anyway – that's why it is, for me, imperative that the fans' group seize the initiative here to 1) lead the efforts to promote acceptable singing and 2) safeguard the future of their group and improve their relationship with the club.

Sadly, however, I think the Union Bears will take the huff again and have their silent protests etc, particularly with their section being singled out by the club over recent events with the UEFA charges.

So, instead of the fans' group – and the club – being proactive, I think that, one way or another, the Union Bears are finished.

I truly hope it doesn't come to this because there is much to admire about the Union Bears, but they need to accept criticism when it's merited – which it most definitely is in this case.
Are they collectively mature enough to recognise this, though?

I'd like to think we all – the club, the Union Bears, and the wider support – want the same thing: an
Ibrox with the world-renowned atmosphere that we're known for across the globe, but an Ibrox with a support who no longer sings the songs that will eventually lead us to being banned from Europe completely.

And, make no mistake, we will be banned from Europe if this continues.

Steven Gerrard will walk if that happens.
There's no way our manager will want to be at a Rangers who are banned from Europe – and there's no way he'll want his brand associated with a club who are banned from Europe because of what is deemed to be racist behaviour.

This would give Celtic a free run at the Champions League and effectively render us unable to meaningfully compete.

Doomsday scenario?
No, it's not.
It is a stark fact that we will be kicked out of Europe if we don't change as a support.

I'd be interested to know the thoughts of posters on this board who are members of the Union Bears, and, of course, also hear from posters who aren't members of the group.

I'll repeat this until I'm blue in the face.

The Union Bears sing each and every traditional Rangers song every week. The rest of Ibrox doesn't know the words. The rest of Ibrox doesn't join in. Other than sing traditional songs (which they do!) what else can they do?!

This is NOT a Union Bears issue.

 

[WearsideGallantFew]

For those, predictably, saying it's wrong to single out the Union Bears, I can't be any clearer in my OP about what I want to happen going forwards:
I want the Union Bears to work with the club to achieve the end result of a packed and atmospheric Ibrox with the fans' group leading the way and showcasing their many admirable qualities.

The Union Bears are not immune from criticism, however – and certainly not over this current issue with UEFA.

Actually, I don't know why I'm spelling this out, it's all there in the OP.
I'm just not sure some posters are actually reading what I've said.

If the rest of Ibrox could learn the fvcking words to the songs that UB start every week, we wouldn't be having this discussion!

 

[1690]

I'll repeat this until I'm blue in the face.

The Union Bears sing each and every traditional Rangers song every week. The rest of Ibrox doesn't know the words. The rest of Ibrox doesn't join in. Other than sing traditional songs (which they do!) what else can they do?!

This is NOT a Union Bears issue.

"Lead or die, even if those you are supposed to be leading don't wish to be led." Think I'd just die. Who needs enemies.

 

[BillyBoys]

I'll repeat this until I'm blue in the face.

The Union Bears sing each and every traditional Rangers song every week. The rest of Ibrox doesn't know the words. The rest of Ibrox doesn't join in. Other than sing traditional songs (which they do!) what else can they do?!

This is NOT a Union Bears issue.

Spot on.

I await a "but....but.....but" response to that.

 

[LOL 133]

I’m sorry but it’s a complete joke how this is being blamed on the UB, it’s embarrassing that ‘fans’ are taking the morale high ground and are pointing the finger at ‘daft wee boys’ as they are well known on here.

I’ve been a member of UB and they know fine well what songs they should be singing etc, they are recorded by the police for 90 mins home and away, surely they’re would be arrests by now if they were caught singing billy boys/ FTP etc?

They can’t stop a few idiots in BF1 starting other songs and eventually it will spread to the full BF and eventually the stadium.

I do agree however that they could assist the club with stamping out the bigotry, however, the club have hung them out to dry here by closing BF1 and giving them the blame, don’t be surprised if they decide on withdrawing their vocal support, wouldn’t blame them at all, the rest of the support reckon Ibrox will cope without them, batter in, lets see how long that will last.

The bigotry is a club problem, TBB etc is sung by the full of Ibrox on European nights/ Old Firms and Away games, pointing the finger at them because of this is like being wains again when you used to blame your big brother if you got into trouble off yer maw by saying ‘he started it’.

Its a FF tradition. Blame someone else.

 

[LOL 133]

The songs have to stop immediately now. Could anyone who goes along to the Legia game on Thursday, fully aware of the ramifications of singing these songs and then belts them out, could they really call themself a supporter?

There wont be much singing as the UB aint there.

 

[LOL 133]

I'm 65 and I've been singing tbb since I was 6 so i can't blame the UBs,
I fully support the guys and I am very confident they can make changes and move forward as the main drivers of the atmosphere at Ibrox,The away support are another worry altogether,
I put the resurgence of tbb which had died a death during our seasons in the lower divisions down to the worst display of sectarianism ever seen at a Scottish football groundour first visit to the cesspit when we returned to the premiership,It left us thinking if they can get away with that tbb is fair game,We all know now the fhilths display of banners and effigies hardly got a mention and open season on Rangers was declared.

It might have made a difference if the club had done something to make the authorities aware that we wont just sit in silence while those around us get to say and do whatever they want. No no no. Much easier to just hide away in a corner.

 

[Valley Bluenose]

There wont be much singing as the UB aint there.

Without getting sucked into the 'blame' game we have folk saying the UB have to take the blame because they lead the singing. They get responded to by those who say its not the UB that leads the singing of the 'naughty' songs. Now we have it that there will be NO singing at all because the UB won't be there.

My head is spinning.

 

[BlueHaze]

It might have made a difference if the club had done something to make the authorities aware that we wont just sit in silence while those around us get to say and do whatever they want. No no no. Much easier to just hide away in a corner.

There is a serious lack of connection between club and fans.

 

[Vivis Sperandum]

I'm 65 and I've been singing tbb since I was 6 so i can't blame the UBs,
I fully support the guys and I am very confident they can make changes and move forward as the main drivers of the atmosphere at Ibrox,The away support are another worry altogether,
I put the resurgence of tbb which had died a death during our seasons in the lower divisions down to the worst display of sectarianism ever seen at a Scottish football groundour first visit to the cesspit when we returned to the premiership,It left us thinking if they can get away with that tbb is fair game,We all know now the fhilths display of banners and effigies hardly got a mention and open season on Rangers was declared.

Correct, it only returned because Rangers fans saw what others were getting away with and that there was no parity whatsoever.

 

[Cutty/Young]

I'll repeat this until I'm blue in the face.

The Union Bears sing each and every traditional Rangers song every week. The rest of Ibrox doesn't know the words. The rest of Ibrox doesn't join in. Other than sing traditional songs (which they do!) what else can they do?!

This is NOT a Union Bears issue.

The irony in your comment is lost on you, the rest don't know the words and then you say they don't join in, how the %^*& can they join in if they don't know the words according to you.

Also your sarcastic silly comment that it's only the UB's that know all the words to all our songs because the rest of Ibrox doesn't know them is crass and nothing more than you trying to look down on others pretending to be some sort of demi gods who we should all bow down to.

You would also do well to remember that those supporters you're having a dig at are probably the same supporters who donate to your displays.

 

[dougiem]

ffs TBB has been sung by Rangers fans for DECADES if in doubt blame the young team the UB bs.
I have been going to Ibrox for over 40 years we have always sung TBB bar a few years maybe it is time to move on as a support but don't blame the UB when everyone of us has been brought up singing TBB ffs.

 

[interbear]

FARE have an agenda

Yes they do.

So do I. Protecting the future of Rangers, supporting the club positively and making sure we don’t get UEFA sanctions, point deductions etc.

We can (and should) continue to campaign against the lack of parity from Fare. But we can not do so unless we sort out our own issue. It’s not difficult.

 

[BrooklynBlue]

I think we'll start refusing away tickets soon if it continues.

It wouldn't be a surprise if it happens in order to deflate the issue.

Every game now, the focus will be on the stands not the field. If it's sung tomorrow, I think we'll have to act swiftly. We cannot allow the momentum to grow that would see the domestic authorities following the example of UEFA.

It would also illustrate that the Club are trying to address the issue.

 

[interbear]

We all know Gerrard's ultimate ambition in management. We knew that when he took the job.

If people think he's going to hang around with the constant threat of or an actual ban from European football then they're beyond delusional. He'd be as well managing Motherwell or St. Johnstone and why would he waste his time doing that? He wants to give us trophies and big European nights.

Some of our support really do need a dose of common sense because it seems to be sorely lacking at the moment.

Correct. European football is in Gerrard’s DNA and he gets that with us as well as thriving on the expectation level that being Rangers manager involves.

Take Europe away and the attraction for Gerrard is significantly diminished.

If we do that to ourselves then we are collectively stupider than I thought.

 

[jefftracy]

I agree with the OP but with extras.
Like most folk on here I’ve belted out these songs in the past but have refrained in recent years or at least omitted the dodgy words so have to take my share of responsibility for us getting in this position again when I could have been more proactive.
However, I have now got the shiters up big time and we are now in a fire fighting situation so that means survival is paramount. I feel at this moment the many justified arguments we have for being unfairly treated by FARE, MSM etc are secondary to the main issue of the club showing that it is totally taking this seriously. The club have to put out a message that absolutely shows that we are serious about trying to sort this out.
And this is the tough bit.
I think in the main the UB are great but I if that section has indeed been the one reported I think the club should temporarily shut that section down with a view to further interaction going forward and also refuse tickets for all away games domestically and abroad until further notice.
And the icing on the cake, cctv should be used at Ibrox to identify any wrongdoers, with the threat of season/life bans.
I know this will be unfair on many innocent folk who attend and travel but we have to show we mean business. The Stasi would be proud of this I’m sure but we are in uncharted waters here and the thought of throwing away what we have just now and the promise for the future because of our inability to not sing some songs fills me with dread.
It might be yet another step back to go forward that we’ve had so many of in the last few years but could be the biggest one in generations.

 

[giogaddi]

It wouldn't be a surprise if it happens in order to deflate the issue.

Every game now, the focus will be on the stands not the field. If it's sung tomorrow, I think we'll have to act swiftly. We cannot allow the momentum to grow that would see the domestic authorities following the example of UEFA.

It would also illustrate that the Club are trying to address the issue.

If they chant these songs tomorrow then they deserve everything that is coming their way.

 

[OnlyRaskin]

I’m a massive fan of the union bears . To me they are still the future of our Ibrox singing and atmosphere .

However I agree with most of your OP - the time is now to steer things in the right direction . If that doesn’t happen it could be the end , just as we were building momentum .

Let’s not forget the great songs the union bears have reintroduced and new ones belted out - 4 lads had a dream , Saturday we follow , amazing grace etc .

I get what the UB contribute to atmosphere. However I’ve been going to Ibrox for nearly 23 years and witnessed some of best European nights and domestic atmospheres. I don’t think the atmosphere would die if they weren’t there.

agree that they should work with the club to look at song choices.

 

[interbear]

What about a third option. The club takes responsibility for its failure to work with the UB and other fans. Simply pleading for restraint doesnt work. Banning supporters isnt the way to deal with this. The club needs to start talking and liaising with fans and getting them on board.

It also needs to start challenging the bias and double standards. But then that takes vision and balls. Much easier to just issue a statement and claim they're doing all they can. They're letting the fans down and creating friction.

I think this is a fair point.

The club have a support that is desperate to, well, support Rangers. They have a vocal and passionate group in the Union Bears. Engage them, get them on board, make them an integral part of the future solution not an obstacle to be brushed aside. There is a need for collaboration here and either party digging their heels in or not talking is going to lead us nowhere.

And yes , the club does need to stand up and challenge the double standards. No question of that. But it would be far easier to do with our support on side and behaving appropriately so these two issues are absolutely linked to each other.

 

[GarMckin]

As things stand, I'm of the opinion that the Union Bears are finished as a fans' group.

I think that the only way back for them would be if they were to work hand in hand with the club and lead the efforts to promote non-offensive songs at Ibrox and at away games.

Now, it's not for me to tell this group what to do as I'm not and never have been a member – but, if I was, I'd be approaching the club in an apologetic manner and asking what the group can do to work with the club in an effort to help educate our wider support – and safeguard the future of the Union Bears.

Just like they do with the offensive songs the Union Bears start, the rest of the ground would follow the Union Bears' lead if they started singing only acceptable songs.

I actually wouldn't be surprised if the club didn't just disband the Union Bears anyway – that's why it is, for me, imperative that the fans' group seize the initiative here to 1) lead the efforts to promote acceptable singing and 2) safeguard the future of their group and improve their relationship with the club.

Sadly, however, I think the Union Bears will take the huff again and have their silent protests etc, particularly with their section being singled out by the club over recent events with the UEFA charges.

So, instead of the fans' group – and the club – being proactive, I think that, one way or another, the Union Bears are finished.

I truly hope it doesn't come to this because there is much to admire about the Union Bears, but they need to accept criticism when it's merited – which it most definitely is in this case.
Are they collectively mature enough to recognise this, though?

I'd like to think we all – the club, the Union Bears, and the wider support – want the same thing: an
Ibrox with the world-renowned atmosphere that we're known for across the globe, but an Ibrox with a support who no longer sings the songs that will eventually lead us to being banned from Europe completely.

And, make no mistake, we will be banned from Europe if this continues.

Steven Gerrard will walk if that happens.
There's no way our manager will want to be at a Rangers who are banned from Europe – and there's no way he'll want his brand associated with a club who are banned from Europe because of what is deemed to be racist behaviour.

This would give Celtic a free run at the Champions League and effectively render us unable to meaningfully compete.

Doomsday scenario?
No, it's not.
It is a stark fact that we will be kicked out of Europe if we don't change as a support.

I'd be interested to know the thoughts of posters on this board who are members of the Union Bears, and, of course, also hear from posters who aren't members of the group.

When we score and in the celebration the majority of the crowd begins signing TBB, how can we blame the UB? I’ve sat in every stand in Ibrox and I’ve heard that chant started in all of them.

 

[Wilkinsvolley]

Said in another thread, the union bears should be in the middle, behind the goals with a bigger section, working with the club.
If they are in a more prominent position with more numbers then the non offensive chants would spread better I think.
I know they've tried to move and grow and been blocked but maybe this could be when a deal could be struck.

I can’t see them being rewarded in the slightest. It would send the exact opposite message we need to send.

 

[Teddy bear]

I can’t see them being rewarded in the slightest. It would send the exact opposite message we need to send.

wouldn't be as a reward.
If the union bears and the club can work together it would benefit everyone and hopefully stop this problem.

 

[Colinrfc2]

If they chant these songs tomorrow then they deserve everything that is coming their way.

Who is the they you are referring to?