Helander over Katic

Danger Zone said:
Purposefully obtuse?

Yes it’s not unheard of, but as I’ve clearly explained several times, it is unheard of in the case of Goldson. Tell you what, you stick to slavering shite about fans wanting to see us lose games so that their opinions are validated, and I’ll stick to engaging in a proper discussion on the subject.
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Where have I said that?

Goldson hasn’t been as bad as you/others are making out. He’s contributed to a good start to the season and is an important figure for the manager on & off the field.

Every manager has their favourites and will build the team around them. Again, that’s football.
 
The Katic stuff is becoming hysterical on here. He's good player who's got some real strengths but he also has some weaknesses such as his positional sense and use of the ball. He was poor against Celtic and Livingston.

He's a young player who sometimes will have to be taken out of the fold but has a big future with us.

Helander was tremendous on Thursday night. Today he done alright, in what was his second start away from home in the league. He also provides another option on the ball by being naturally left footed and comfortable taking it on his back foot.
 
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It’ll be intresting to see what we do on Wednesday night as that livvy striker was the definition of a big lump.
 
Let's wait until Helander has played 12 or so games to see how he does. I suspect he will be our best centre back along with Goldson
 
PalefaceRedskin said:
I think everyone wanting Katic and Helander is getting things mixed up. They both step onto the ball, Helander slightly less so, and there’s no way the gaffer will play them together too often.

I love big Niko and think he’ll be a top player but facts are he played offside v the abusers when he shouldn’t have done, had a nightmare v Livi and generally struggles v the press playing on his wrong side. It’s hardly an outrageous decision to bring in a 3 m international in those circs.
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Hang on a second. Who was the main culprit for that Edouard goal? It wasn’t Katic I can tell you that, him and his defensive partners were dropped in the shit by Goldson, and had a split second decision to make, following Jack when he stepped up. He had a shite game against Livingston, but the question that people keep asking, and so many keep ducking, is why was he then dropped when Goldson has had several ropey games going back into last season?
 
Helander needs more game time I didn't think he did that well today but you can see he has a good range of passing, still not really match fit looking at today's performance.
 
SDF said:
We paid £3m for Goldson.

Are you seriously suggesting we'd lose money on him if we sold him to back down to England tomorrow ?
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I think he is a 2-3m defender and thats what we paid

I dont think he has gone up in value from that
 
Topps said:
Katic main strength is winning headers tbh in the last two games we haven’t really came up against a proper target man. I’m sure Katic will come back into contention.
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I could see him coming in against the sheep due to them lumping it up to cosgrove
 
I thought Helander was immense on Thursday and was pleasantly surprised with his pace.
I think between them Katic and Goldson need someone in there that’s got a bit more pace.
Some will say Katic didn’t deserve to be dropped but maybe just horses for courses like Defoe and Morelos.. maybe
 
Danger Zone said:
Hang on a second. Who was the main culprit for that Edouard goal? It wasn’t Katic I can tell you that, him and his defensive partners were dropped in the shit by Goldson, and had a split second decision to make, following Jack when he stepped up. He had a shite game against Livingston, but the question that people keep asking, and so many keep ducking, is why was he then dropped when Goldson has had several ropey games going back into last season?
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Katic had to go with his man against celtic.

He tried to step up and play offside and didn't catch him off.

Very bad defending even if your centre half isn't already out of position.
 
BrooklynBlue said:
Where have I said that?

Goldson hasn’t been as bad as you/others are making out. He’s contributed to a good start to the season and is an important figure for the manager on & off the field.

Every manager has their favourites and will build the team around them. Again, that’s football.
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You and a number of others were in the match threads implying people will be eagerly awaiting opposition goals so they can complain about Katic’s omission.

I didn’t say Goldson was bad at all, I said he hasn’t performed as well as Katic and is an permanent fix in the defence even if he’s the lesser performer. You’re right, managers have favourites, that doesn’t mean it’s right and it doesn’t mean they shouldn’t be criticised for it.
 
frankie_dux said:
I think he is a 2-3m defender and thats what we paid

I dont think he has gone up in value from that
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So him playing a part in two Europa League qualifications against several higher seeds and cutting our goals against record by almost half from the previous season counts for nothing ?

Yet Katic plays half the games and is somehow rated at £10-15m by you ?

How does that work?
 
gerrard32 said:
I wonder if Goldson actually has a say in this?
That he would prefer to pålay with Helander over Katic.
Katic and Helander have had niggles with each other recently
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I’d guess our GK will have an influence on SG’s thinking.
 
Marc said:
I thought Helander was immense on Thursday and was pleasantly surprised with his pace.
I think between them Katic and Goldson need someone in there that’s got a bit more pace.
Some will say Katic didn’t deserve to be dropped but maybe just horses for courses like Defoe and Morelos.. maybe
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Should be in the squad then surely?
 
Rangersnumberfour said:
Katic had to go with his man against celtic.

He tried to step up and play offside and didn't catch him off.

Very bad defending even if your centre half isn't already out of position.
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He made the wrong decision, he’s still unlikely to catch a Edouard by that point, and however you dress it up, Goldson will always be the primary culprit where that goal is concerned, and looking at some of his passing today, it’ll probably happen again at some stage.
 
Danger Zone said:
He made the wrong decision, he’s still unlikely to catch a Edouard by that point, and however you dress it up, Goldson will always be the primary culprit where that goal is concerned, and looking at some of his passing today, it’ll probably happen again at some stage.
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One made a mistake almost on the half way line.

One made one on the 18 yard line.

How ever you want to dress it up :)
 
SDF said:
So him playing a part in two Europa League qualifications against several higher seeds and cutting our goals against record by almost half from the previous season counts for nothing ?

Yet Katic plays half the games and is somehow rated at £10-15m by you ?

How does that work?
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It doesn’t.

I tell you what else it fails to take into account is that Goldson’s the glue that binds the defence.

He’s talking Katic into position constantly. He’s setting the shape and the dominant personality in a team barely conceding at the moment.

I’ll take that level of shite, all day.
 
Followbear93 said:
It feel that Gerrard was waiting for a weak performance to get Helander in the team. Katic for me has proved to be a great player for us and understand some games we all have poor games (although I didn’t thank it was all that bad). What I would say is that Helander didn’t have the best game today and early signs doesn’t make me feel he’s any better.

While in the topic of Cbs I thought Golson was immense today
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P2 win2 clean sheets 2 says it all
 
Followbear93 said:
It feel that Gerrard was waiting for a weak performance to get Helander in the team. Katic for me has proved to be a great player for us and understand some games we all have poor games (although I didn’t thank it was all that bad). What I would say is that Helander didn’t have the best game today and early signs doesn’t make me feel he’s any better.

While in the topic of Cbs I thought Golson was immense today
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First half his distribution was poor
 
Danger Zone said:
You and a number of others were in the match threads implying people will be eagerly awaiting opposition goals so they can complain about Katic’s omission.

I didn’t say Goldson was bad at all, I said he hasn’t performed as well as Katic and is an permanent fix in the defence even if he’s the lesser performer. You’re right, managers have favourites, that doesn’t mean it’s right and it doesn’t mean they shouldn’t be criticised for it.
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Ah, so I didn't say it. I apparently implied it with a group of others. I made very little comment on today's game and I don't recall saying too much on the Feyenoord match thread either. I recall questioning one poster post- Euro game because he kept banging on about Katic and Ojo. Anyway...

Sure criticise the manager. It might be worth waiting until we're dropping points and losing to a decent European side, though. That's two clean sheets.
 
Danger Zone said:
Hang on a second. Who was the main culprit for that Edouard goal? It wasn’t Katic I can tell you that, him and his defensive partners were dropped in the shit by Goldson, and had a split second decision to make, following Jack when he stepped up. He had a shite game against Livingston, but the question that people keep asking, and so many keep ducking, is why was he then dropped when Goldson has had several ropey games going back into last season?
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Teams give the ball away mate. It was really poor by Connor but they were a still a long way from goal and Niko shouldn’t have stepped up. I’m not crucifying him for it as he’s one of my favourites but it was the fatal mistake and then followed in the game v Livi by his worst display since Hamilton last year.

I’ve told you why I don’t think he’ll play Helander and Niko together. They both step onto the ball.

Goldson is also the quickest of our centre halves so I think that’s another reason it is going to be him and one other.
 
Rangersnumberfour said:
Katic had to go with his man against celtic.

He tried to step up and play offside and didn't catch him off.

Very bad defending even if your centre half isn't already out of position.
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Katic wouldn't have had to do anything if Goldson had not gave the ball away yet again.
 
Goldson and Helmander are getting the clean sheets so let's not change the partnership just now.

Despite some drama queens both have played well and dealt with their challenges in the past two games well.
 
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Defence looks more balanced currently and I'd prefer the Goldson/Helander partnership, simply because it's the most experienced and best I've seen technically from the options we have.

That said, I'd expect both Katic and Edmunsen to have their opportunities this season.
 
I’m just happy we have four very good options.

My only concern is that we shouldn’t have ANY undroppable players in the team yet Goldson seems to be one of them. Katic has had a better season for me, but you also need to remember they are two totally different brands of centre half.
 
Mbt79 said:
Defence looks more balanced currently and I'd prefer the Goldson/Helander partnership, simply because it's the most experienced and best I've seen technically from the options we have.

That said, I'd expect both Katic and Edmunsen to have their opportunities this season.
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Probably on Wed night
 
Once a BEAR said:
Katic wouldn't have had to do anything if Goldson had not gave the ball away yet again.
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True but he did and Katic didn't bail him out.

I've said many times that I love Katic but people are so blinkered to Goldson. You would think he was some sort of defensive calamity running about giving goals away every week.
 
standardbarger said:
Off the boil is being kind to both of them.
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Maybe our left hand side is 2 full internationals and the right isn’t and the money spent is now showing?
I think Tav needs a rest then will get his form back but it drives me nuts him taking every dead ball which didn’t happen today so maybe took the huff?
%^*& knows tbh I’m half pished and probably talking pish.
 
Barker96 said:
We haven't conceded a goal with Helander on the pitch and already people are calling to bring Katic back into the fold.

He's really going to be up against it to win some supporters over. Wonder what the reaction will be like on here if he actually does have a bad game.
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He's played two games cvs. Talk about apples and oranges.
 
academical said:
My best guess is someone was abusive to Greg.

But if so, why not delete the post, instead of the whole thread?

I know it’s been discussed before, but the debate had moved on a bit. Unlike this perpetual sense of grievance on behalf of Katic.
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There are man management questions need asked of SG that's why. But of course on here he's Teflon.
 
academical said:
My best guess is someone was abusive to Greg.

But if so, why not delete the post, instead of the whole thread?

I know it’s been discussed before, but the debate had moved on a bit. Unlike this perpetual sense of grievance on behalf of Katic.
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It’s the strangest thing the love affair some have for him.

for the avoidance of doubt I like Katic but the last 2 games we have replaced him with a Swedish international and had 2 clean sheets, it’s not like we have been rubbish.
 
Govanx said:
There are man management questions need asked of SG that's why. But of course on here he's Teflon.
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I recall Gerrard being very clear when Katic arrived that he was a young, developing player, and not meant to be a fixture in the first team. He did better than expected early on.

Gerrard tried to rest him by bringing in Worrall last season, and that didn’t work out too well, but Helander is a class above. Now that he’s in the team, Katic is likely to be a squad player for a while. No reflection on Katic, whose time will come.

All IMVHO, of course.
 
academical said:
I recall Gerrard being very clear when Katic arrived that he was a young, developing player, and not meant to be a fixture in the first team. He did better than expected early on.

Gerrard tried to rest him by bringing in Worrall last season, and that didn’t work out too well, but Helander is a class above. Now that he’s in the team, Katic is likely to be a squad player for a while. No reflection on Katic, whose time will come.

All IMVHO, of course.
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Nice to get a ‘dispassionate’ view in the debate.

For me, all I care about is Rangers winning. By and large, it matters not to me who is filling the jerseys.
 
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