British Super League being Planned in Secret with Celtic and Rangers Invited

I see the Celtic share price is up 10% this morning on speculators having a punt that this comes off.

Prepare for disappointment I'd say.
 
This is unlikely to happen, but as I said before Rangers only owe it to themselves to explore any opportunity available.

The ESL has failed for now, but in my opinion they’ll be back before long. Football is changing and we need to be alert to that.

For example had the ESL instead of being a closed shop proposed say setting up 3 leagues of 20 teams with promotion and relegation, with those 12 starting off in the top, I think they would have got enough traction.

Being stuck in Scotland in an eternal fight with them is depressing, and doesn’t have any ambition for me.

Some say we would be another Everton, Newcastle etc. and if managed poorly we could be. Is it not better though to have the opportunity if we get it right to have a chance to compete for the biggest trophies around? That can’t happen if we remain in Scotland, no matter what is tried.

I’ve read a couple in the last few days want to go down a socialist route and spread the wealth around Scottish football to make it competitive. All that would do would decrease our budget further making it even more difficult to compete in Europe.

It seems some just like the idea of beating cannon fodder up here 3 or 4-0 and I’m surprised how many seem to suggest they would fall away if we weren’t doing well in England.

Anyway it’s not happening, but I think some lack ambition for Rangers.
 
SGL said:
I'd say it is clear that I think our potential to scale is bigger than you believe it to be.

We are an immensely marketable brand based in the UK in a world known city limited by the market we are forced to operate in due to historic accident.
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We played Hibs in the Championship on boxing day. Rangers could've sold 80k that day. From the online traffic and phone calls TO got. Remember reading that after the game. Not saying we'd need an 80k stadium but 65k to 70k would be easily filled imo. More money from sponsors more everything.
 
It's apples and oranges but unless you're watching hungover halfwits alongside 300 inbred mutants it isn't football to him. There's not much point in engaging him.
 
I don't see the EPL ditching 4 of its current members and inviting the OF to replace them in order to get numbers down to 18. Their member clubs aren't going to vote for that. Not a chance.
 
55 and counting said:
We played Hibs in the Championship on boxing day. Rangers could've sold 80k that day. From the online traffic and phone calls TO got. Remember reading that after the game. Not saying we'd need an 80k stadium but 65k to 70k would be easily filled imo. More money from sponsors more everything.
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But how much more?

Man City needed £1.3billion to get to the top in England. Would an extra 20k seats in our stadium do that for us?
 
Valley Bluenose said:
I don't see the EPL ditching 4 of its current members and inviting the OF to replace them in order to get numbers down to 18. Their member clubs aren't going to vote for that. Not a chance.
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That's the main reason I think it is a non starter although I'd like to see it. One way it may be palatable would be to have an EPL 2 of 18 with a decent % of the income going there.
 
Northampton_Loyalist said:
The bit in bold, well, they are 100% honest and state pretty clearly that it is about money.

If Rangers and Celtic were invited by Liverpool, Man UTD, Man CIty, Arsenal, Spurs, Chelsea, Leicester, Everton, West Ham, Leeds, Villa, Wolves and Palace (to make a total of 15) into a league, given permanent membership with no threat of EVER being relegated, no chance of Aberdeen, Dundee UTD, Hibs, Hearts etc EVER making it there (unless we invite them, of course, and this new league went directly up against the existing European competitions, devaluing them and taking money away from all other leagues as a result then yes, absolutely, you would have a wonderful point.

That is not what was suggested. There is talk (complete pipedream, will never happen) of a merging of the leagues. Just like in Belgium and Holland.



Why you still try to conflate these 2 completely different and entirely separate ideas is baffling in the extreme. it is almost as if you can only hold 2 ideas in your head at any one time and everything must fit into one or the other.
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I just find the dishonesty to be laughable.

Fans are opposed to club owners doing something that protects their own club finances at the expense of everybody else. Except of course when it may happen to benefit their own club. Then its suddenly absolutely fine to pursue a move to a different league that's invitation only and not open to the likes of Aberdeen, Hibs or Hearts.

You're either for teams moving leagues to look after their own interests or your against it. You can tell yourself that this is different, but it really isnt. Rangers and Celtic being invited to the EPL? If thats what happens then it happens. But its an option closed off to the rest of Scottish football and it's a move that will disadvantage English clubs.

All I'm after is a bit of honesty.
 
iaatpies said:
I just find the dishonesty to be laughable.

Fans are opposed to club owners doing something that protects their own club finances at the expense of everybody else. Except of course when it may happen to benefit their own club. Then its suddenly absolutely fine to pursue a move to a different league that's invitation only and not open to the likes of Aberdeen, Hibs or Hearts.

You're either for teams moving leagues to look after their own interests or your against it. You can tell yourself that this is different, but it really isnt. Rangers and Celtic being invited to the EPL? If thats what happens then it happens. But its an option closed off to the rest of Scottish football and it's a move that will disadvantage English clubs.

All I'm after is a bit of honesty.
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Honestly the likes of Hearts, Hibs and Sheep would gladly wave us off into the sunset. Entirely different situation to the proposed super League scenario.
 
iaatpies said:
I just find the dishonesty to be laughable.

Fans are opposed to club owners doing something that protects their own club finances at the expense of everybody else. Except of course when it may happen to benefit their own club. Then its suddenly absolutely fine to pursue a move to a different league that's invitation only and not open to the likes of Aberdeen, Hibs or Hearts.

You're either for teams moving leagues to look after their own interests or your against it. You can tell yourself that this is different, but it really isnt. Rangers and Celtic being invited to the EPL? If thats what happens then it happens. But its an option closed off to the rest of Scottish football and it's a move that will disadvantage English clubs.

All I'm after is a bit of honesty.
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I take your point, but the reason I would welcome the move is purely a footballing matter, to improve quality and get out of this cesspit of corruption and hatred towards our club.
 
Tpol_rfc said:
That's the main reason I think it is a non starter although I'd like to see it. One way it may be palatable would be to have an EPL 2 of 18 with a decent % of the income going there.
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I'd certainly agree that a 'second tier' EPL would have a far greater chance of being accepted by the clubs down South. And they'd insist that was where the OF started. Which might be no bad thing as it would allow us to develop gradually, with the benefit of the extra income, rather than being thrown into the top tier with a team based on current expenditure. Would WE agree to start at EPL2 though ha ha?
 
iaatpies said:
I just find the dishonesty to be laughable.

Fans are opposed to club owners doing something that protects their own club finances at the expense of everybody else. Except of course when it may happen to benefit their own club. Then its suddenly absolutely fine to pursue a move to a different league that's invitation only and not open to the likes of Aberdeen, Hibs or Hearts.

You're either for teams moving leagues to look after their own interests or your against it. You can tell yourself that this is different, but it really isnt. Rangers and Celtic being invited to the EPL? If thats what happens then it happens. But its an option closed off to the rest of Scottish football and it's a move that will disadvantage English clubs.

All I'm after is a bit of honesty.
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Where is the dishonesty? Fans were against the ESL as a closed shop league that killed any veneer of competitive football for the majority. Belgium and Holland have merged to give them a greater chance of competing at the expense of absolutely nobody, at all, without closing off access to anyone, without creating a 2 tier system and while increasing their chances of competing against bigger leagues. Trying to compare the 2 as somehow the same is special levels of ignorance of the facts.

'You're either for teams moving leagues to look after their own interests or your against it.'

No, pies, that only applies if you can only see one extreme or another. There is a whole world of difference between maintaining the status quo and forming the ESL, with a billion shades of grey and a billion different ways of doing things in between. If you look only at the 2 extremes, then perhaps you can try and tell people they need to pick one or the other, but in the real world, where we do not need to neatly box everything as 'good' or 'bad' and ignore the middle, people can look at things with some level of intelligence and decide for themselves where the line is. This child-like, binary thinking is actually pathetic. X is bad so Y must be bad too is primary 1 level thinking.
 
Tpol_rfc said:
Honestly the likes of Hearts, Hibs and Sheep would gladly wave us off into the sunset. Entirely different situation to the proposed super League scenario.
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Of course they would be happy in the right circumstances. OF moves to EPL and picks up £100 million a year each. 10% of that comes back to Scotland for say 5 years. Even at 5% it dwarfs the current TV deals that are available. People slag off Doncaster for various reasons, but getting any TV deal for Scottish football takes some doing. There are about 16 games a season that are worth watching. Sky could have put those on PPV and been quite happy.
 
Northampton_Loyalist said:
Where is the dishonesty? Fans were against the ESL as a closed shop league that killed any veneer of competitive football for the majority. Belgium and Holland have merged to give them a greater chance of competing at the expense of absolutely nobody, at all, without closing off access to anyone, without creating a 2 tier system and while increasing their chances of competing against bigger leagues. Trying to compare the 2 as somehow the same is special levels of ignorance of the facts.

'You're either for teams moving leagues to look after their own interests or your against it.'

No, pies, that only applies if you can only see one extreme or another. There is a whole world of difference between maintaining the status quo and forming the ESL, with a billion shades of grey and a billion different ways of doing things in between. If you look only at the 2 extremes, then perhaps you can try and tell people they need to pick one or the other, but in the real world, where we do not need to neatly box everything as 'good' or 'bad' and ignore the middle, people can look at things with some level of intelligence and decide for themselves where the line is. This child-like, binary thinking is actually pathetic. X is bad so Y must be bad too is primary 1 level thinking.
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There really isnt.

Either clubs can move to new competitions for the sake of money or they can't. The arguments against Rangers moving to the EPL on invitation and leaving behind the rest of Scottish football are no different to the arguments for Man United or Chelsea leaving English football. It's to benefit those clubs at the expense of everybody else.

You can pretend that there's a difference. The reality? Either moving leagues for more money and a higher standard of football is acceptable or it isn't. And I'm not against Rangers moving to the EPL. I just want a bit of honesty as to the reasons why. The reason being that Rangers can't earn as much in Scotland as it could in the EPL and that fans would rather see Rangers play Chelsea or Arsenal than Livingston or Kilmarnock. If Rangers were to move to the EPL in the summer (not that it would be that quick) then it would benefit Rangers and that's an absolutely valid justification. Lets just not kid ourselves that it would be for anything other than that the money and glamour on offer would be more preferable than remaining in Scotland and anticipating matches against Ross County or Dundee United.

If its right for the Rangers board to do whats best for Rangers at the expense of other teams in Scotland then it's right for the Glazers or Stan Kroenke to do whats best for Man United or Arsenal.
 
Lovenkrands said:
I’ve read a couple in the last few days want to go down a socialist route and spread the wealth around Scottish football to make it competitive. All that would do would decrease our budget further making it even more difficult to compete in Europe.
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It wouldn’t be paid for by the club, it would be by the EPL collectively, in the same manner as with the Championship. It won’t happen though, but it would need to if i was to support it.
 
The way forward is a UEFA European Super League of 2 divisions with relegation/promotion to national leagues via play offs and a system of solidarity payments to help bridge the gaps between the two.
 
Northampton_Loyalist said:
Where is the dishonesty? Fans were against the ESL as a closed shop league that killed any veneer of competitive football for the majority. Belgium and Holland have merged to give them a greater chance of competing at the expense of absolutely nobody, at all, without closing off access to anyone, without creating a 2 tier system and while increasing their chances of competing against bigger leagues. Trying to compare the 2 as somehow the same is special levels of ignorance of the facts.

'You're either for teams moving leagues to look after their own interests or your against it.'

No, pies, that only applies if you can only see one extreme or another. There is a whole world of difference between maintaining the status quo and forming the ESL, with a billion shades of grey and a billion different ways of doing things in between. If you look only at the 2 extremes, then perhaps you can try and tell people they need to pick one or the other, but in the real world, where we do not need to neatly box everything as 'good' or 'bad' and ignore the middle, people can look at things with some level of intelligence and decide for themselves where the line is. This child-like, binary thinking is actually pathetic. X is bad so Y must be bad too is primary 1 level thinking.
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Belgium and Holland merging benefits the biggest Belgian and Dutch teams. It isnt being done for the benefit of FC Emmen or Oostende. It's being done to benefit Ajax, PSV, Anderlecht and Standard.
 
iaatpies said:
There really isnt.

Either clubs can move to new competitions for the sake of money or they can't. The arguments against Rangers moving to the EPL on invitation and leaving behind the rest of Scottish football are no different to the arguments for Man United or Chelsea leaving English football. It's to benefit those clubs at the expense of everybody else.

You can pretend that there's a difference. The reality? Either moving leagues for more money and a higher standard of football is acceptable or it isn't. And I'm not against Rangers moving to the EPL. I just want a bit of honesty as to the reasons why. The reason being that Rangers can't earn as much in Scotland as it could in the EPL and that fans would rather see Rangers play Chelsea or Arsenal than Livingston or Kilmarnock. If Rangers were to move to the EPL in the summer (not that it would be that quick) then it would benefit Rangers and that's an absolutely valid justification. Lets just not kid ourselves that it would be for anything other than that the money and glamour on offer would be more preferable than remaining in Scotland and anticipating matches against Ross County or Dundee United.

If its right for the Rangers board to do whats best for Rangers at the expense of other teams in Scotland then it's right for the Glazers or Stan Kroenke to do whats best for Man United or Arsenal.
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It is not possible to have a conversation with you on this. You deliberately fail to consider anything other than a binary, Black/White Good/Bad and cannot seem to cope with any level of nuance in a situation.


the ESL and what is happening in Belgium and Holland are so far removed it should not need to be explained. The fact it does need explained renders the debate pointless.

Have a good day.
 
cambridgeblue said:
I see the Celtic share price is up 10% this morning on speculators having a punt that this comes off.

Prepare for disappointment I'd say.
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Quite a rise; would interesting to see the volume of shares that involved.
 
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Jamie O'Hara delivers brutal Celtic British Super League verdict as Rangers icon Ally McCoist fires hypocrisy warning​

Reports over an expanded English top flight being adapted to include both Glasgow sides have emerged today.


Pundit Jamie O'Hara has claimed Rangers would survive in the Premier League - while Glasgow rivals Celtic would be doomed to relegation.
Reports this morning claim Premier League clubs who walked away from the English Super League are hoping to bring the Premiership sides into a 'British Super League'.
The claims sparked a debate on radio station talkSport over how the Scottish giants would perform south of the border.

​

O'Hara reckons that Steven Gerrard 's side would be able to compete with the best clubs in England, however predicts dethroned champions Celtic would struggle.

​

He said: “Right now, if they got put in tomorrow, I think Rangers would survive, they would stay up.
"If you put them in the Premier League now I think Rangers would stay up with Steven Gerrard in charge. They’ve had a great season.

"Celtic would go down, I’d put them up for relegation."

However, O'Hara believes if the move takes place, both clubs will be given time to adjust to the new set-up.
He added: “On that I would say that if you gave them a transfer window and a season to bed in I think they would compete for the top six because they are huge football clubs.
"They'd need a couple of seasons to find their feet.
“If Rangers come into the Premier League with Steven Gerrard as manager, are you telling me he wouldn’t be able to attract some of the best players in the world?"

Fellow pundit and Rangers icon Ally McCoist warned against a "hypocritical" decision in the shadow of the European Super League collapse.
However, he believes the risk of relegation does make the potential switch different.

McCoist said: "We have spoken over the past three days about the unfairness of the European Super League, with relegation scrapped, we’re the top six and we're going and that’s it, so let's not be hypocritical about the whole thing.​

“At the same time there would be promotion and relegation so it would be different.
“I’m not sure Rangers or Celtic would get invited straight into it. They would maybe start off in the Championship.”

AND

He told talkSPORT: "I think from the Rangers and Celtic point of view, it's something that would clearly interest them.

"Listen, make no mistake about it, the arguments will all come out. It's financially-driven.

"But Rangers and Celtic's overriding feeling would be that they would want to attempt to better themselves and play in a league with those teams, your Liverpool's and Manchester United's.


​


"Everything is driven by money to a certain extend, greed, of course it is.

"But I genuinely don't know, for example, what the Motherwell, Kilmarnock and Hibs supporters would think. I'd be interested to hear their views."

Although there would be plenty of opposition, FIFA has now thrown their backing behind cross-border leagues. However, it's likely the FA and SFA would need some convincing.
 
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People would rather stay and play in this kind of tinpot shite
new-douglas-park-hamilton-1589901853-39125.jpg

and not want this ????!!

skysports-manchester-united_4956487.jpg
 
I don't see how it would ever get voted through for us and them to move directly into the Premier league. Maybe to lower leagues to work our way up, but directly to the top? Can't see many being in favour of that
 
andrewmont1 said:
Of course they would be happy in the right circumstances. OF moves to EPL and picks up £100 million a year each. 10% of that comes back to Scotland for say 5 years. Even at 5% it dwarfs the current TV deals that are available. People slag off Doncaster for various reasons, but getting any TV deal for Scottish football takes some doing. There are about 16 games a season that are worth watching. Sky could have put those on PPV and been quite happy.
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Why only 5 years? It would need to be permanent and with an option of promotion for other teams if it was a British league. Otherwise Rangers become English.
 
If we have the opportunity to join a British league, we should jump at it. We owe Scottish football nothing after the events of 2012, which a lot of posters on here seen to forget.
When the European draws are made a lot of people always want to draw an English team this would be an opportunity to draw 18 of them.
 
Barisic's Bandage said:
Could have 22 for 1 year then relegate 4?
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What about those who earn promotion from the Championship? Ditch them? Or relegate 6? Its not happening. Their goal is to reduce to UEFAs target of an 18 club League and I don't see them increasing beyond 20, even for a short period, to facilitate that.

Looking at it from an English perspective, what's in it for them? Certainly an increased viewing audience. They won't get increased attendances in already full stadia though. Crowd trouble? maybe. Some 'fresh blood' - perhaps. What about we Rangers fans - would we find prices at Ibrox escalated to match English prices?

If I'm honest, the EPL doesn't need us. As much as it would be good for Rangers, I don't see it happening.
 
Tpol_rfc said:
Honestly the likes of Hearts, Hibs and Sheep would gladly wave us off into the sunset. Entirely different situation to the proposed super League scenario.
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No they wouldn't. Club won't give up a couple of home games against us and Celtic a season yet we've to believe they'll 'gladly wave us off into the sunset'? Utter nonsense.
 
CooperOnTheWing said:
Why only 5 years? It would need to be permanent and with an option of promotion for other teams if it was a British league. Otherwise Rangers become English.
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It would not need Rangers or celtic's tv money to be split with the rest, it would need the SPFL to be treated in the same way as the Championship and directly paid from the tv money.


Wont happen, but it is nice to dream.
 
Leaving Scotland soon would make sense. 55 vs whatever they’re on (less than us), giving us perpetual bragging rights regarding historical dominance as the greatest ever Scottish club.

Onward to pastures new and all the excitement of EPL football. We have a 50k seater stadium and world class, debt free training facilities. Club’s digital service is pretty damn good now too, so long as RTV doesn’t crash. Redevelopment of Ibrox already underway.

This is an easy one for me in all honesty.
 
Northampton_Loyalist said:
It would not need Rangers or celtic's tv money to be split with the rest, it would need the SPFL to be treated in the same way as the Championship and directly paid from the tv money.


Wont happen, but it is nice to dream.
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Why would English football share it's TV money with what would be a foreign league? Why would there be any sharing of money between the English Championship and the SPFL? English football is suddenly going to treat their Championship and the SPFL with some kind of parity?
 
www.bbc.co.uk

Super League 'on standby' - Perez

The European Super League is on "standby" despite nine of the 12 founding teams withdrawing, says Real Madrid president Florentino Perez.
www.bbc.co.uk www.bbc.co.uk

Nevermind a British Super League, Perez is stating the EFL is only on standby.

Nice to see he is looking to save football as opposed to ensuring Real Madrid is able to bank even more money in the future.
 
The Dude said:
No they wouldn't. Club won't give up a couple of home games against us and Celtic a season yet we've to believe they'll 'gladly wave us
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The Dude said:
No they wouldn't. Club won't give up a couple of home games against us and Celtic a season yet we've to believe they'll 'gladly wave us off into the sunset'? Utter nonsense.
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Their accountants may miss us, but their fans and board members won't.
 
Aragorn said:
www.bbc.co.uk

Super League 'on standby' - Perez

The European Super League is on "standby" despite nine of the 12 founding teams withdrawing, says Real Madrid president Florentino Perez.
www.bbc.co.uk www.bbc.co.uk

Nevermind a British Super League, Perez is stating the EFL is only on standby.

Nice to see he is looking to save football as opposed to ensuring Real Madrid is able to bank even more money in the future.
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He's an old fool best ignored.
 
BPL 1 & 2 (with mandatory 51% fan ownership), fed by League 1 and SPFL (who also get equal percentage of agreed takings from above leagues). No change to national Cup games, but winners into Europa League (or runners up if winners already qualified for Europe through league).
Will never happen though.
 
CooperOnTheWing said:
Why only 5 years? It would need to be permanent and with an option of promotion for other teams if it was a British league. Otherwise Rangers become English.
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No other Scottish teams would be entertained because they have no international appeal. Lets say you have a friend who has moved to Spain. Does that make him Spanish? No. He needs Spanish registration to live there now, but he will always be Scottish and British. Pretty sure if you told Swansea and Cardiff fans their teams were English you'd get a pretty robust response.
 
The Dude said:
No they wouldn't. Club won't give up a couple of home games against us and Celtic a season yet we've to believe they'll 'gladly wave us off into the sunset'? Utter nonsense.
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Well history shows they were happy enough to vote us out of the League.
 
iaatpies said:
Why would English football share it's TV money with what would be a foreign league? Why would there be any sharing of money between the English Championship and the SPFL? English football is suddenly going to treat their Championship and the SPFL with some kind of parity?
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I did not say they would :oops:. I was pointing out what would need to happen for it to be equitable. Again, that is not something that should need to be pointed out.

Mate, I'm not interested in talking with you about this, it is like banging a head against a brick wall, and slightly less fulfilling.
 
Northampton_Loyalist said:
Did you miss 2012?
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Nope. In 2012, the same teams who were apparently desperate to wave us off into the sunset effectively took the SFL's TV rights revenue away from them so they could get their pound of flesh.

Since 2012, the same teams who are desperate to wave us off into the sunset have rejected any attempts at restructuring the league so they dont lose home fixtures against us or Celtic and the revenue that brings them. The same clubs are utterly reliant on the TV deal we get that would be a fraction of the pittance that it is just now if the league didn't have four Old Firm games a season.

Tell me more about how these clubs are desperate to wave us off into the sunset. Without Rangers and celtic propping up Scottish football financially, every last one of them are fucked.
 
I know it's - unfortunately - hypothetical , but if you were to go round every single player in our dressing room and ask the manager and all the coaching staff if they would move, 100% of them would be up for it.
 
The Dude said:
Nope. In 2012, the same teams who were apparently desperate to wave us off into the sunset effectively took the SFL's TV rights revenue away from them so they could get their pound of flesh.

Since 2012, the same teams who are desperate to wave us off into the sunset have rejected any attempts at restructuring the league so they dont lose home fixtures against us or Celtic and the revenue that brings them. The same clubs are utterly reliant on the TV deal we get that would be a fraction of the pittance that it is just now if the league didn't have four Old Firm games a season.

Tell me more about how these clubs are desperate to wave us off into the sunset. Without Rangers and celtic propping up Scottish football financially, every last one of them are fucked.
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In 2012 they literally voted to kill us. It took the lower leagues accepting Rangers to keep the club going.
 
We all know this is a load of crap dreamed up by some bored hack at the Sun, but what astonishes me is the number of hypocrites on here who constantly rail against Scotland, the SNP, ‘this little backward country full of bigots’ etc and then get their knickers in a twist when it is suggested that Rangers escape the ‘backwater’ to compete in a British League!
Make up your minds!
 
if this is ever announced there will be one major difference to the reaction to the ESL.

Where the ESL got fan protests against the new setup, Rangers leaving the SPFL will have fan parties celebrating us leaving, given how much the fans of other clubs hate us.
 
Tpol_rfc said:
Well history shows they were happy enough to vote us out of the League.
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And history shows them repeatedly rejecting any attempts to restructure the league that denies them cash from gates against us. History also shows us that the SPFL's TV deals are entirely dependent on Rangers and Celtic.
 
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