Are we too nice to be champs?

Route 55

Well-Known Member
Every player is now sh*te. Although if we pick up a result against Porto, they will all be worth a fortune again :D
This thread is away on a tangent as per these kind of comments.
The problem most have is the way in which we surrendered to a more physical outfit in Hearts, not to mention losing top spot, not to mention our first challenge as league leaders etc etc we are too meek when it gets down to physicality, and that's the question I was posing no mention of anyone being shite.
 

Steph85

Member
A don’t think this was the main issue yesterday. We played the game hearts wanted us to making it a scrap. In doing this we stopped doing everything we do well, players playing between the lines and sharp 1-2s around the box. The amount of long balls we played just played into hearts hands. Don’t disagree that Edmunson would not be a bad shout in the middle in games like this but I still think we need our midfielders to be braver on the ball and drive forward at times. Just poor performance for me hopefully not a trend.
 

LarkfiedLoyalNS

Well-Known Member
I think the frustration boils down to, we now are set to have a sustained period of away league games over the next 2 months. Celtic are mostly at home, they don't lose home games.

Logic says we will be going to parkhead end of december looking at them a number of points clear.
The reality is we could be a number of points behind them before we go to Parkhead and a loss could mean the league is over before the end of the year. That would’ve gave that lot some belief and confidence yesterday again showing we have not once been able to show any strength or confidence when we were top of the league.
 

Davidw72

Well-Known Member
Why fight fire with fire, we are just getting back to having players good enough to play football, so why introduce players to mix it up and go down to their level.
It’s a reflection on the Scottish game that most of their fans get more excited at an over physical tackle as to a player showing talent.
Until this mentality has gone, our game will suffer as a consequence.
 

RedWhiteBlue

Well-Known Member
This thread is away on a tangent as per these kind of comments.
The problem most have is the way in which we surrendered to a more physical outfit in Hearts, not to mention losing top spot, not to mention our first challenge as league leaders etc etc we are too meek when it gets down to physicality, and that's the question I was posing no mention of anyone being shite.
The problem is that it's too early to answer the question you are asking.
Also if the answer is "yes" then there's nothing we can do about it.

4 away games so far this season.
Wins at Killie (2-1), St Mirren (1-0), St Johnstone (4-0)
Draw at Hearts (1-1).

Compared to last season this is decent form.

Hamilton was our first away win of last season. On the 21st of October. Our 5th away game of the season.

We are almost 1/4 of the way through the season and we have dropped 5 points.
If we win on Sunday then that's title winning form, actually.
(drop 20 points all season and we finish on 94, that's good)

People talking about "tough away games coming up". Well, no sh!t.
We've got 38 potential banana skins to navigate with 19 of them away. Same as every other season.

Right now we are looking at 3 wins and 1 draw as our away form. It's not perfect. It's not exactly a disaster either.

Yesterday was a blip but we escaped with a point.

In most seasons the majority of our dropped points will come away from home. Edinburgh, Aberdeen and Plastic Bullsh!t Pitches will cause issues.

At the end of the day, if we are going to win this it is almost certainly going to go to the last game of the season. We will DEFINITELY drop points between now and then.

Last time we won it we did so with 93 points.
To get that total once more we are looking at dropping a further 16 points this season.
Most of those will be dropped away from home.

The only thing I can think of is that, yes, if we go on a run of just winning match after match and keeping that gap at the top then maybe the pressure could induce a timmy meltdown and we run away with the league.

Otherwise a title winning season looks pretty much like what we are seeing here.

We have a good side that is winning comfortably at home.
Games versus them are an unknown quantity.
Decent form away from home with dropped points here and there (10 out of 12 aint bad so far).
 

RedWhiteBlue

Well-Known Member
The reality is we could be a number of points behind them before we go to Parkhead and a loss could mean the league is over before the end of the year. That would’ve gave that lot some belief and confidence yesterday again showing we have not once been able to show any strength or confidence when we were top of the league.
Surely the opposite is also true?

They went 3 points clear of us in September with a GD of +14 compared to our GD of +5 and 4 matches later they had shipped 5 points away from home and the GD was turned on its head also.

Now we are equal on points and GD but they have scored one goal more.

The reality is that we could be going into that match a Parkhead with a league cup under our belts and with a 1 or 2 point advantage. The reality is that we are getting closer and closer and maybe that match at Parkhead is where we define our season.

Too much negativity and fear going around.

We are better than last year. We are constantly improving. It might not be enough right now but we will get there.
 

EverGer

Well-Known Member
I logged on last night and immediately regretted it.

The good thing with the European campaign is people move on relatively quickly. By tommorow it will be all focus on Porto.

What frustrates me is not so much the points people make as the sudden, visceral swings in mood. Like a mentally disturbed child. When things go our way people are, like I said above, planning title parties in October. Then we draw a game and its complete doom and gloom. I don't get how some of these people never considered the possibility that there are tough away games we'd toil in.
It’s just incredible. The same people week in week out make snap judgements. Draw a game and suddenly everyone is terrible. Character and mental strength is no existence etc etc. Just boring. Tyncastle is always a tough trip. I’m not sure why people expected different just because they are struggling this season.
 

Commentator

Well-Known Member
The problem is that it's too early to answer the question you are asking.
Also if the answer is "yes" then there's nothing we can do about it.
You've not given that much thought, surely?
You considered replacing players? We could bring in Edmundson, Docherty, and/or Polster to name only three? Then there's Flanagan and King.
The thing here is our fragility effectively invites the thing we are still not good at handling, namely hoofba'.
We need to discourage our opponents from that view.
It's a managerial issue, they have to find the balance and IMHO it's crying out for big George.
 
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Ronniemca

Well-Known Member
I can remember Stuart McColl saying that the 9iar team were told to forget the nambi pambi stuff for the first 20mins of every game .Let your immediate opponent know you are up for it and will go toe to toe and more.He said you could visibly see their opponents shoulders slump when they realised a team full of better players had their working gear on.Compare that to our first 25mins yesterday.Ive just watched it again and it was worse than I even thought
 

essexbluenose

Well-Known Member
I can remember Stuart McColl saying that the 9iar team were told to forget the nambi pambi stuff for the first 20mins of every game .Let your immediate opponent know you are up for it and will go toe to toe and more.He said you could visibly see their opponents shoulders slump when they realised a team full of better players had their working gear on.Compare that to our first 25mins yesterday.Ive just watched it again and it was worse than I even thought
Oldest saying in football you have to earn the right
 

RFC4ME

Well-Known Member
Nah, I can't say I see that at all.

McGregor, Jack, Katic, Morelos, Kent, Flanagan, Arfield, Goldson...

Mind Arfield literally took the piss out of Brown to his pus.... mind that dead ball....

Kent actually punched a player in the pus.... like on a park, he took the decision to belt someone in the face.

We have a core of right horrible bastards
 

willemtway

Well-Known Member
I want players to go into 50/50`s convincingly, i want players to tackle with gusto and strength. I do not want dirty bastards throughout the 11 but we need that fear in the squad.
Yesterday that big numpty striker of theirs bullied every one he came near, not one glove was laid on him by us, nullify him that takes their game-plan and flushes it down the lavvy, im not saying injure him but somebody needed to give him a reminder.
In my opinion it’s almost the opposite, I think we got to grips after 20-25 with great big lump and hearts generally yesterday, we just forgot to play going forward
 

Gazza1872

Well-Known Member
Our first dropped points away from home so far!

why wait for yesterday to happen before sharing your concerns about our away form?

our ‘away form’ isn’t the issue. The issue is our captain landing us in it consistently!
I've been concerned with our away form, yes we were getting the wins until Sunday but St Johnstone aside have we even scored from open play away from home? Now I'd take winning with set pieces every week but just dont think that's sustainable. Agree tav has been rank rotten lately though.
 

stevie221

Well-Known Member
Nah, I can't say I see that at all.

McGregor, Jack, Katic, Morelos, Kent, Flanagan, Arfield, Goldson...

Mind Arfield literally took the piss out of Brown to his pus.... mind that dead ball....

Kent actually punched a player in the pus.... like on a park, he took the decision to belt someone in the face.

We have a core of right horrible bastards
I agree with this. Not many opposition players go within a yard of Greegsy for fear of being halved in two, and I wouldn't mess with Goldson or expect to flatten the Buffalo. However, we also have some flair players and they always seem to be in for the treatment.
 

Commentator

Well-Known Member
I can remember Stuart McColl saying that the 9iar team were told to forget the nambi pambi stuff for the first 20mins of every game .Let your immediate opponent know you are up for it and will go toe to toe and more.He said you could visibly see their opponents shoulders slump when they realised a team full of better players had their working gear on.Compare that to our first 25mins yesterday.Ive just watched it again and it was worse than I even thought
What I cannot get my head round is Gerrard has spoken repeatedly about this but continues to pick the same players who either cannot or will not start on the front foot.
He absolutely must stop trusting these players. It reminds me of Jig regularly coming out declaring 'that was our wake-up call'. Usually before they served up another dose of the same insipid shite.
 

BlueSevenTwo

Well-Known Member
Honestly felt Gerrard had sorted out the mentality issue. It's mostly gone, but you simply cannot account for a player continually doing gaffe after gaffe, and it resulting in goals for the opposition every time and expect said player to be ok mentally.

It needs sorted.
Perhaps he has sorted out the mentality thing only time will tell , but when your captain makes yet another schoolboy error so early in the game maybe that sets a tone.
 

A1bertz

Well-Known Member
If we beat Porto, it could do wonders for belief among all.

Massive scalp
We struggle away in Edinburgh, Paisley and Livingstone.....I have a funny feeling Portugal isn't gonna be quite as 'easy' as those places.
We'll be under pressure and 'shitting oor breeks' all night.
 

jackstar

Well-Known Member
I want players to go into 50/50`s convincingly, i want players to tackle with gusto and strength. I do not want dirty bastards throughout the 11 but we need that fear in the squad.
Yesterday that big numpty striker of theirs bullied every one he came near, not one glove was laid on him by us, nullify him that takes their game-plan and flushes it down the lavvy, im not saying injure him but somebody needed to give him a reminder.
Made him look better than he is.
 

RedWhiteBlue

Well-Known Member
You've not given that much though, surely?
You considered replacing players? We could bring in Edmundson, Docherty, and/or Polster to name only three? Then there's Flanagan and King.
The thing here is our fragility effectively invites the thing we are still not good at handling, namely hoofba'.
We need to discourage our opponents from that view.
It's a managerial issue, they have to find the balance and IMHO it's crying out for big George.
In all fairness we have played 9, won 7, drawn 1 and lost 1.
Away from home we have played 4, won 3, drawn 1.

In most seasons this is title winning form.
A lot of titles are won from "grinding out results" and that's what we are doing.

It's like we are trying to second guess a problem that we don't full understand the extent, or even existence of.

Are we really suggesting that the changes you have suggested there takes our 10 points out of 12 away from home so far and turns it into 12?

Does anyone here really expect that the season would consist of 19 perfect away performances with 19 matching away victories?

I don't think the reaction to a single draw away from home should be met with "maybe we are too nice so let's start replacing players".

After 9 games we are sitting on 22 out of 27 points.
I don't know if that's worthy of praise but it certainly feels like we are moving in the right direction.
 

Commentator

Well-Known Member
I don't think the reaction to a single draw away from home should be met with "maybe we are too nice so let's start replacing players".
It's not just that, that's far too simplistic. You may choose to frame it like that but you're then ignoring a regular flaw in our game. With the captain it's a response to several recent inexplicable and game-changing brain-farts plus his form falling off a cliff. It's also a response to teams like Livingston and Hearts, who we really should be imposing our game on, using physical superiority to prevent us doing that. It's exploring what could be done to reduce the likelihood of that approach giving us problems.
Professional football, moreso here, demands that you meet and defeat the physical challenges and then you can play your game.
Re. our form so far. Yes, the results have been very good but the flaw mentioned above has been evident to the extent we've got away with it a few times.

ps - you no longer believe this "The problem is that it's too early to answer the question you are asking.
Also if the answer is "yes" then there's nothing we can do about it."?
 
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barrheadbear

Well-Known Member
If we don't win the title the only reason will be we are simply not good enough.

The manager has to do better with his team selections. For me SG, will more often than not, select Ojo and Aribo in his starting 11 despite both being far from impressive for a long time. We are not that good that we can win games a man short, nevermind 2, as was the case on Sunday with them.
 
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